BB Top 10 1B Prospects
1. Eric Hosmer
3. Brandon Belt
5. Jonathan Singleton
6. Jerry Sands
8. Christian Yelich
9. Mark Trumbo
10. Rich Poythress
JD Sussman- We always knew Hosmer had talent given his draft pedigree. But maybe this season’s surge puts last season into perspective. In a way, it was kind of amazing that he did so well given that he could not see the ball and had a wrist injury. This year he has been an force, and is easily the top 1B prospect for me. I love his swing, and if his AA home run rate is a genuine improvement, rather than a small sample size fluke, watch out. His walk rate has dipped, but I’d expect it to get back into the 10+% range next season. One thing to note, from 2008-2010 of the top 10 first basemen by WAR only four started out at first base. The others shifted across the defensive spectrum.
Jeff Reese (JAR75, JR)- Flannery O'Connor was mistaken; in actuality, a good first base prospect is hard to find. I could just stop there and sum up this entire list. I agree with Josh that Hosmer is clearly the best of the bunch. While I do not feel comfortable evaluating a swing, everything I have read supports his assertion. Due to the nature of the position, I still feel Hosmer’s significant drop this offseason was justified. We simply did not know what we were dealing with and cautiously ranking bat-only prospects is a philosophy that I enthusiastically endorse. His bat and, more importantly, the scouting reports have been excellent this season, and I am now comfortable enough with his bat to call him an elite prospect at first base (a distinction that I employ with much frugality).
Michael Herrick(Gatling, MH)- Jeff summed things up pretty well on Hosmer I think. The scouting reports have been glowing and he's hit well at both stops. I'm not sure if he'll start next year in AA or AAA, but I think he needs a full year in the upper minors to refine his approach against better pitching. That's not really a knock on him though, this was only his second full year of pro ball. I can see Joey Votto type upside here.
Al Skorupa(Alskor, AS)- No doubt Hosmer's success in 2010 has something to do with offseason LASIK eye surgery, but I think its also important to take this as an example of how we shouldn't overreact to a teenager's weak debut when the underlying tools remain the same. He sure looks like a future middle of the order force.
Doron Meizlik(DM)- Hosmer is the clear-cut #1 on this list for me, and I'd go so far as to call him the only elite prospect of the bunch. He came out of high school with a reputation for excellent contact skills and awesome raw power. This year we're finally seeing him put it all together. Finally seeing him tap into that potential in his age-20 season is exciting, and I really believe that the recent uptick in power is for real and will continue as he continues to learn how to turn his raw power into in-game power.
JR- Freddie Freeman is an interesting case. The statistics are unimpeachable, but the scouting reports coming into the year had serious concerns about his power potential. I think he has done enough on the field to alleviate some of those concerns, however, I need to see more than just production to put him into the elite category. Until scouting reports that believe in his future power start to surface, he's not on the same tier as Hosmer.
DM- After Hosmer, though, there's a pretty big gap before we get to my #2 1B prospect Freddie Freeman. I think Freeman is probably the safest player on this list and will be a major leaguer for a long time, but I can't call him an elite prospect without seeing star power, and I simply don't here. He's second on this list almost by default, but I'm definitely not excited about the dude.
MH- Freddie Freeman is easily #2 for me, he and Hosmer are clearly above the other prospects at first base. There isn't a big gap between the two for me really. I think Hosmer might have a bit more upside but not substantially so. Both have good power potential, both should hit for high averages and both are good defenders at 1B. I give Hosmer the edge because he's shown better walk rates at this point. Scouting reports in the past have been split on Freeman's power ceiling, some seeing him at 20-25 and other in the 30-35 range. I am curious to see what the reports this fall will say, but his .200 ISO in the IL at age 20 is plenty impressive.
JS- For a second, let us focus on what Freeman is, rather than what he is not. Freedie possess amazing contact skills and his high minor league line drive rate will translate to the majors. Making solid contact is the key to having a high batting average, which Freeman will excel at throughout his career. Turning though to the “negatives”, his swing is not conducive to power production. He does not employ his legs or hips in matter that is going to create natural loft in his swing. Given his size however, he’ll still hit balls over the wall when they are up in the zone, just don’t expect a slugger’s approach from him at the plate. That doesn’t mean he is a bad prospect and it doesn’t mean he won’t be successful. I actually think that the part of his game that will hold him back more than his power, will be his walk rate (as it compares to his peers)
AS- I completely agree with you on Freeman, JD. I just don't see a star level ceiling there. I still have concerns about his major league power, approach and platoon split despite an extremely impressive performance ARL in 2010 where he showed improvement in those areas. I still see a 1B only player without elite secondary skills. He's easily my 2nd best 1B prospect, but I doubt he'll be as high on my top 100 as you see him many places.
JR- I was the low man on Brandon Belt, ranking him 5th overall. His re-worked swing certainly has made quite the impact on his production this season, and the scouting reports have been backing it up. Still, I have some lingering doubts about the power, whether well-founded or not, I want to see him continue this success for a bit longer. I see more of a James Loney ceiling for Belt which is still fantastic progress for a guy who looked exceedingly fringy at first base when drafted last June. As for the outfield experiment, I would not bet on it.
AS- Brandon Belt is an interesting case. He's virtually a different hitter than when he played his college ball at Texas last year. Completely different swing. So far, the results have been fantastic. I'm hesitant to overreact to his great 2010... he was a relatively old, polished college kid. I want to see him continue his success in 2011 before I go higher.
DM- Belt is a guy I love. Al hit the nail on the head when he said that he's almost a completely different hitter now than he was a year ago, and I believe in the new Brandon Belt. The power may never be elite, but it's already very good and he will almost certainly hit great for contact in the majors. And he's probably the best athlete on this list and the only person who could play anywhere other than 1B at an average level. I'm getting excited just writing about him, and if I had to do it over, I might even move him ahead of Freeman for the #2 spot.
MH- Brandon Belt has had quite the year hasn't he? He overhauled his swing this year, decimated the Cal League, tore up the Eastern League and is finishing his first year in pro ball at AAA. Yeah, he's posted unsustainable BABIP's and his power is probably somewhere between average to above average at first base. That said, he's a good athlete and can handle a corner OF spot so he offers a little bit more defensive value than some of the others on this list. I want to see how he handles advanced pitching for an extended period of time next year, but there is plenty to like here. I have to say I strongly disagree with the idea of a Loney type ceiling for Belt. Loney has posted ISO's between .118-.145 the last three years, I just don't see Belt showing that little power. I spent some time trying to come up with an approximation of what I can see him doing and I came up with a pre-injury(2004-2006) Lyle Overbay. Not a star by any means, but a 2.5-3.5 WAR player depending on defense.
JR- Yonder Alonso intrigues me more than he should. I think it is a subtle bias from watching him repeatedly hit line drives into the gap during his College World Series run in 2008. I think he is going to hit, and perhaps we are finally starting to see the power return (hamate injuries tend to dampen it) as he has a .347/.421/.592 line with nine home runs at Louisville in July and August. He will likely struggle against left-handed pitching, but I am more comfortable with him than anyone on this list not named Hosmer or Freeman. Where exactly he will fit into the Reds lineup is a question that I cannot pretend to answer.
AS- I think "comfortable" is the right word with respect to Alonso, Jeff. I don't think there is a whole lot of difference in ceiling between the guys on this list after Hosmer and I'm by far the most comfortable projecting Alonso to be a good major league 1B. Is his stock down for me? Yes... a little bit, due to his disappointing start. I do think there is more to his bat that he's shown us as a pro so far, though.
MH- Alonso has had a strong finish to his year, hitting very well and showing the kind of power that has been expected of him. I still worry how he'll fare against LHP and I'd like to see more than two months of strong production out of him. I can't see him remaining with Cincinnati very much longer, this offseason might be a great time to deal him away to fill other needs on an up and coming young squad.
JS- Personally, the more I look at Alonso’s statistics, the more I like him as a player. His career walk rates are impressive, and he isn’t striking out much at all. His hip turn is very impressive, and should help him continue to elevate the ball when he gets to the majors. He does appear to have an uppercut swing, but I’m not comfortable being too definitive on that until I see more tape. I fear with him, which is why he is fourth, is that I believe he’ll have trouble hitting lefties throughout his career. Whereas, I believe Freeman will, to a manageable extent, fix that issue.
DM- I do want to talk for a minute about Yonder Alonso, who I was by far the low man on. Not to twist your words, JD, but let's focus for a minute on what Alonso is: he will be entering next season as 24 year old bat-only, 1B-only prospect who has holes in his swing, couldn't hit me if I could throw lefty, and has yet to show off his power. I know he's been the hot the past six weeks or so, but a season line of .290/.362/.458 has me wondering if this guy can ever put it all together to become a great player. He's clearly blocked in Cincinnati, but I wouldn't exactly be beating down Walt Jocketty's door for this guy if I was another team. I'm actually quite thrilled my low ranking on Alonso moved Belt ahead of him in our group ranking.
JS- Just to be clear, I had Alonso at four, and he’ll still be at the back end of a top 100, if he is on at all.
JR- Jonathan Singleton probably has the second highest ceiling on this list. The scouting reports early in the year were glowing and he has been productive as an eighteen year old in Lakewood. I recently got to watch him play in a game (observations here), and the primary thing that I came away with was how physically mature he already looked to be. As a result, I find the talk of him as an outfielder to be optimistic. He has a tendency to chase high fastballs, but otherwise shows excellent plate discipline for his age. Singleton still needs plenty of minor league seasoning, and it will be interesting to see how he performs in the pitcher friendly Florida State League next year.
AS- Singleton really impressed me in 2010. He's put up a great line in Lakewood, which isn't an easy place to hit in - especially HRs (.60 HR factor in 2010, .80 2006-2008) . He's shown a great approach and good contact ability. Jeff is right... the FSL will be an even bigger challenge, but if he puts up this kind of line again he could really fly up the prospect rankings.
JS- It’s hard to ignore Singleton’s year, especially when one considers that ball park, as Al mentions. In 2010, Lakewood had a HR park factor of 68 for LH batters and slightly suppressed overall offenses as compared to the league (not to the minors as a whole). With that said, I too want to see more of him before placing a top the prospect world. Mike Newman from Scouting the Sally gave him very high praise, but like Mike, I’m also concerned about his body being close to fully developed. As for his swing, he has excellent hip turn and use of his legs to go with a very compact stroke. The problem is, his stroke is only compact on balls around his belt. Balls down in the zone, where his power is evident, his swing gets too long and loopy (some refer to this as him casting his barrel at the ball). Hopefully, as he matures, he tightens things up but keeps his power.
DM- Singleton is the one guy who could be anywhere on this list next year, from #1 to off the list. You guys have already touched on his great upside, but I am trying to temper my personal excitement/expectations as a Phillies fan for such a young kid who is so far away. The power for such a young kid in that ballpark gives you a lot to dream on, but it's not really fully game-ready yet. He definitely has a lot of work to do, but there's an awesome ceiling here.
MH- Singleton is a guy I'm really not sold on at all. He got a lot of helium as he hit .353/.439/.641 in May and June but he's hit .251/.360/.369 since July 1st. Even with the poor second half he's maintained a strong IsoD which is very encouraging. I do wonder if it's not a combination of Singleton having a fairly advanced approach at the plate and the less polished arms in the Sally League. I'm curious to see what he does next year in the High A Florida State League. Until I see him against better pitching I'm going to remain a bit skeptical.
JR- I know there is a lot of support, especially by Dodgers fans, for Jerry Sands as an outfielder. He has indeed played a lot of games in the corner this season, but is he really someone that you want to play in the outfield? From what I can tell, he is a bad outfielder and an even worse first baseman. I am sure he could be a Jason Kubel-esque defender, but I would rather live with him at first. He has had a great year with the bat, but I am not totally on board. In a recent chat, Keith Law said: "Definitely not top 50, probably not top 100. Even scouts I know who like him don't see him as much more than a slightly above-average starter."
MH- I've seen people(Dodgers fans mainly) try to argue that Sands isn't a bat only prospect by saying he's really and outfielder playing at first base out of necessity or by bringing up Baseball America rating him the best defender at first base in the Midwest League. Neither of those things mean very much to me. I think he's likely to end up at first base mainly because James Loney has been so unproductive there the last few years. I can see Sands as a Josh Willingham type hitter pretty easily. I'm not sure where he'll end up when I sit down to make my top 100 list in the offseason, but he would be a last 20 spots type guy if he makes it.
JR- We really start to scrape the bottom of the barrel after Sands. Anthony Rizzo has surpassed Lars Anderson as a prospect, yet I do not see a bat that profiles well at first base. He has decent power, but also has some contact issues (admittedly he has improved in that area with the promotion to Portland). Yelich was a bit of an overdraft as a good contact hitter without the power you really want out of a first base prospect. He could probably be passable in left field, but fits best defensively at first base. Trumbo and Poythress are big first basemen who are having loud seasons in the minors in very favorable hitting environments.
MH- Rizzo is a guy I could see having a breakout year in 2011. As a 20 year old in AA he's been solid if nothing else. His first two months showed some struggles as his plate discipline was lacking and his power wasn't impressive. The last two months though he's made adjustments, improving his BB/K ratio(from .26 to .58 since July 1st) and his ISO(from .144 to .227). I think he'd be well served to start in AA again next year and get half a season or so there before moving on to AAA.
JS- I really like what I saw from him in his draft video. His swing is beautiful. Looking at him though, I cannot get Kyle Skipworth out of my mind.
MH- Yelich is interesting to me. He got the obligatory Mark Grace/John Olerud comps as a sweet swinging first baseman without big power. He has a good frame that at 6'4" and 190 pounds could easily fill out over the next 5-7 years, probably capable of adding 20-30 pounds of "good weight" in that time. As he fills out and matures I can see that gap power becoming 20 HR pop.
AS- Mark Trumbo and Rich Poythress were 9-10 on our combined list and my personal list. They're actually kind of similar. Like Rizzo, they grade out well but unspectacular all around. Trumbo and Poythress also are both a) having great statistical season; b) age appropriate/old for their level; c) playing in offensive friendly leagues (PCL & Cal.); and d) playing in home parks that are very easy to hit in (Salt Lake City and High Desert). They both had excellent seasons but just can't rank higher for me while playing in those environments.
DM- After Hosmer/Freeman/Belt/Singleton, there's not a single guy here I'm excited about. Rizzo will probably have a major league career but certainly doesn't project to be an above-average major league 1B. Yelich has as smooth a swing as you're likely to see, and just hearing the Olerud-type comps flying around at draft time is enough for me to put him on this sad list. Sands I'm decidedly unexcited about, but he has power so I guess that has to count for something when we're stretching to find guys to rank here. Can you notice a theme building? I ranked Goldschmidt and Trumbo 9 and 10, respectively. I was actually a bit surprised nobody else had Goldschmidt on their list. Obviously he's nothing more than a bat-only prospect, but he has done a heck of a lot with his bat this season and has shown great power (only 1 behind Trumbo for the minor league lead in home runs).
MH- Goldschmidt was 11th on my list and would have made it if we had classified Sands as an outfielder. Goldschmidt, Poythress and Trumbo are all RH hitters that play in hitter friendly leagues, so there are definitely similarities. The reason Poythress and Trumbo rank ahead of Goldschmidt comes down to their splits. All three are better vs. LHP but Goldschmidt has the biggest gap in his L/R splits, to the point where he likely will need to make some adjustments to be more than the weak side of a platoon. The 35% K rate vs. RHP is the biggest concern there for me, much worse than Trumbo at 25% or Poythress at 21%.
DM- As Jeff joked not long ago, "Let's hope we do not have any other position as painful to write up as first base." Luckily, I don't think we'll be quite as underwhelmed by any position the rest of the way.
We appreciate any comments, whether it be praise, criticism or whatever your heart desires either here, or on our site. Thanks again John for managing the best website on the planet.
79 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I like Rizzo better than Alonso
other than that, good list
2010 Red Sox Playoffs.... We Can Do It!
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
Join the Lacrosse community The Lacrosse Blog
by bestbostonsports on Sep 3, 2010 5:41 PM EDT reply actions
???????????????
I like Alonso a whole hell of a lot less than most on this site, yet I’d still take him over Rizzo in a heartbeat.
Adoptive parent of Kyle Nicholson
I dunno
Ive seen Rizzo a lot and hes always impressed me. Alonso has not done it for me
2010 Red Sox Playoffs.... We Can Do It!
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
Join the Lacrosse community The Lacrosse Blog
by bestbostonsports on Sep 4, 2010 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Strong list
Nice work guys. I’m a little more bullish on Rizzo than you, but I’m always more bullish on Rizzo. lol
I agree with the comment that he stands to take another step forward in ‘11, and with good defensive reviews he could be above average over all at the major league level. He’s just started showing usable power this year, and I’m wary of projecting him based simply on his stat line because he’s developing while playing at an advanced level of play and he’s been streaky as a result. He’s got a heckuva swing and a good eye for his age and experience level.
That's pretty much what I'm thinking
He’s not there yet, but I think people may undersell his potential a bit. He was young for his level and didn’t have too much High A experience under his belt. That showed in his first couple of months and he looked overmatched. He made adjustments though and finished up strong.
http://bullpenbanter.com
Rizzo
with 66 XBH out of 137 hits on the year. Definitely answering a lot of the questions about his power coming into the year.
by blackoutyears on Sep 8, 2010 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd have Poythress over Trumbo and possibly even Yelich
But then again i’m biased
…they should send down Huntington & Nutting, because they aren’t ready, either. - royshowell
i still think
Freeman’s path is more of the 30 HR variety. He’s MASSIVE. He’s bigger than Heyward (and he’s a big big dude). When he figures that out, I can see .300/.380/.540 lines for him repeatedly.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Sep 3, 2010 6:46 PM EDT reply actions
Disagree

He is certainly tall, but I don’t think massive is an appropriate adjective for his body time.
Come check out Bullpen Banter!
Follow Bullpen Banter on Twitter
Follow me on Twitter
Remember: baseball guys... baseball...
*body type*
Though, of course that doesn’t mean your projection is invalid.
Come check out Bullpen Banter!
Follow Bullpen Banter on Twitter
Follow me on Twitter
Remember: baseball guys... baseball...
Why would his size justify a .300/.380/.xxx line?
His approach still isn’t great and he would have to walk a lot more to reach that OBP, even hitting .300.
Bullpen Banter
www.bullpenbanter.com
twitter: @alskor
Sure
He could also hit quite a bit more than .300 some years
May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house.
-George Carlin
He could.
He has very good plate coverage and squares stuff up… but he’s a but of a free swinger and doesn’t walk nearly enough to justify that OBP with that AVG… & I wasn’t the one who proposed that statline.
Bullpen Banter
www.bullpenbanter.com
twitter: @alskor
I tend to agree
If he’s going to put up a .380 OBP, I’d predict it would be more like:
.330/.380/.xxx
than with a .300 BA. I don’t necessarily think Freddy is going to be amongst the league leaders in HRs at 1B, but I think he’ll be a decent power source with say, 20+ per anum and a ton of doubles. But then, maybe that’s looking at the player he is now rather than imagining the player he and his 6’5" frame will turn into in 5 years.
Anti-Nats bias!
Where’s Chris Marrero? Where’s Tyler Moore? Tyler Moore is the Carolina League MVP!!!!
/sarcasm’d
On a desperate search for Sunshine at Nats Park. In Rizzo and Ramos we trust.
To be fair, Kevin Goldstein at least touched on Moore a couple days ago
For now, scouts see him as more of a potential lefty crusher (he’s slugged 12 home runs against them in 160 at-bats), than an everyday player, but backup first baseman is a position than many teams don’t have the luxury of a roster spot for.
He’s got 21 doubles, 1 triple and 19 homers in his last 199 at-bats, and yet he still hasn’t convinced many that he’s more than a potential platoon mate.
I like baseball.
I write for Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times Fantasy
by Satchel Price on Sep 4, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
How is Trumbo 9th
behind guys like Singleton and Rizzo when he’s smacking 30+ homers in the highest league in the minors. I like young guys too but that’s just rediculous.
Few things for me
First, it is the PCL which inflates hitting value (a little less than a half a run a game is scored there in contrast to the minor league average). Its the also the best HR league in the minors. And in the best home run league, Trumbo is hitting in a park that inflates RH HRs and wOBA by 6%. I’m not saying he isn’t a good power hitter, just that projections can be aided with a bit of context. Also, his walk rate isn’t very impressive for a bat only guy.
Come check out Bullpen Banter!
Follow Bullpen Banter on Twitter
Follow me on Twitter
Remember: baseball guys... baseball...
But...
His walk rate is FAR improved over last year. There’s optimism amongst the Angels fans that he’s figuring stuff out. Hopefully he gets some at-bats in the bigs over the next month.
I like Trumbo more than last year
and I don’t think there’s a whole lot of difference between him, Rizzo, Poythress (as I mentioned in my comments). In fact, the second half of this list there isn’t much to distinguish the guys from each other.
With Trumbo its hard for me to see past the fact he’s 24 years old in a very hitter friendly environment.
Bullpen Banter
www.bullpenbanter.com
twitter: @alskor
What softens the 24 year old thing
Is you’re dealing with a converted pitcher (drafted out of high school), so perhaps he still has room to grow hitting wise. He basically has learnt how to hit as a professional in the Angels minor league system.
The hitting environment should certainly temper excitement though, even though improvements in his plate discipline is a positive sign.
by TheQuestforMerlin on Sep 4, 2010 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Trumbo is almost four years older than Rizzo
and playing just one level higher in a league where offense, especially power numbers, deserves special scrutiny. Coupled with Rizzo’s performance that’s enough to rank Rizz higher imo. In the end they might be similar players offensively, but Trumbo is more of a known quantity than Rizzo at this point, so edge to the guy with more projection.
by blackoutyears on Sep 4, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Alonso
I’m a fan of Alonso. Every time I see him hit I find myself reminded of Carlos Delgado, which would of couse be nice. Don’t know that Alonso tops 40 homers though.
This comparison brings the lefty problem with it as well. I don’t think he gets enough credit for the progress he’s made vs them. .747 OPS in AAA. Not great but a far sight better than last year and gives some hope he won’t be a strict platoon player.
He's #4 (#3 on my personal list)
He’ll probably make my top 100 (which is an impressive feat for a first base prospect).
http://bullpenbanter.com/
Yeah... I can't help but think there's more there all around when I watch him.
…but I’m also a Hurricanes fan and I don’t want to overrate what I saw of him in college.
Lets just say I wouldn’t be shocked to see him explode when he reaches the majors… all the same I don’t think I can justify him any higher based on what he’s shown me
Bullpen Banter
www.bullpenbanter.com
twitter: @alskor
Rizzo
I’ve seen him three times this year, and twice he got fooled badly by guys throwing offspeed stuff.
question
From what I can tell, he is a bad outfielder and an even worse first baseman.
have you seen him play?
No, and I don't see how that question is relevant
I’m going off of the reports that I’ve read and I would trust them more than my eyes even if I had seen him play many times.
http://bullpenbanter.com/
Its extremely relevent
. . . because not only can you not trust your own eyes,, we also have to decide if the guys you “heard” say he can’t play defense saw him either, or who THEY heard it from. Nothing against you specifically JAR, you are just being reasonable and knowing your limitations but, I’ll say it again . . . I CONSISTENTLY learn more from a glance at a player’s basic, defensive stats, than I do ALL of the various reports on thier defense- almost always. Why would you discount the BA report that he was quite good defensively at 1B btw? That doesn’t seem to jibe with your declaration there. They sometimes know of what they speak.
May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house.
-George Carlin
That wasn't a BA report
He was voted the best defensive first baseman in the Midwest League by the managers of those teams. That was not based on scouting opinion.
http://bullpenbanter.com/
exactly
managers cannot be trusted in written player evaluation, especially in a situation where their input is virtually meaningless.
Adoptive parent of Kyle Nicholson
Sure
I could see the manege of an individula player’s own team not meaning much but, I think the managers COLLECTIVELY have eyes, some experience, and some knowledge of baseball and what a good 1B looks like.
Shit, if you, Jar, Aslkor and any of a few guys on here went to a bunch Midwest League games and took a poll of who the best defensive 1B was- Id likely trust it for the most part.
I’m not sure why exactly you guys don’t have any respect for the managers in the MWL? Why exactly?
May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house.
-George Carlin
well, for one, these polls of managers have ended in bizarre results in the past
Take a look back at the lists of previous years… they seem to just vote for the best hitter most of the time.
Bullpen Banter
www.bullpenbanter.com
twitter: @alskor
Jeez dude
You don’t think the guys who manage in the Midwest league have any idea what a good 1B looks like? You realize a lot of minor league managers have scouting backgrounds and have played and watched a lot of baseball. Isn’t it more reasonable to say he’s probably closer to a good 1b or an average one than one who is “worse than bad”? That doesn’t make a lot of sense does it?
May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house.
-George Carlin
Being voted the best defensively of a group of non-prospects in low-A means nothing to me
http://bullpenbanter.com/
That's just idiotic to completely disregard this
Continue on with your head up your ass.
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
And let's look at his "competition":
Cedar Rapids Kernels: Casey Haerther
Quad Cities River Bandits: Matthew Adams
Fort Wayne TinCaps: Nathan Freiman
Clinton LumberKings: Vincent Catricala
Beloit Snappers: Michael Gonzales
Kane County Cougars: Anthony Aliotti
Wisconsin Timber Rattlers: Chris Dennis
Peoria Chiefs: Justin Bour
Lansing Lugnuts: Balbino Fuenmayor
Lake County Captains: Ben Carlson
Dayton Dragons: Chris Richburg
Bowling Green Hot Rods: Ryan Wiegand
South Bend Silver Hawks: Ramon Castillo
West Michigan Whitecaps: Anthony Plagman
Burlington Bees: Joey Lewis
Seriously? Jerry Sands being voted the best defensively of this group of non-prospects is what we’re hanging our hat on?
http://bullpenbanter.com/
Calm yourself
You haven’t seen any of these guys play either. I aam not ‘hanging my hat" on anything. I don’t even like or have any knowledge of Sands defensive skills other than the few most reasonable, to me, pieces of info that I have. . .
a He was voted the best 1b, defensively, in the MWL by the leagues managers
b He was moved to the Of and stayed there when going to another level
c His defensive numbers in the Of aren’t bad
d He has played Centerfield 25 times the past two years. They don’t usaually stick you in CF If you can’t play.
It’s just FAR, FAR, FAR more reasonable to think he can play at the very least, a passable 1B (nothing to get excited about or argue about) than to think he is “worse than bad”
May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house.
-George Carlin
Sure
Havent you heard of the defensive spectrum? Im sure you have so Im not insulting your intelligence. It is perfectly reasonalble to assume that someone who is ok in Cf, or Lf or Rf that he would be able to play a little bit of 1B.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_spectrum
May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house.
-George Carlin
It doesn't work literally
You cannot take a catcher and put him in CF and expect him to be better defensively there. Perhaps Sands has trouble reacting to a ground ball, or with his footwork, or with his ability to scoop a ball in the dirt, or a myriad of different things that differentiate an outfielder from an infielder.
http://bullpenbanter.com/
Dont be obtuse
Your point is valid except for it lacks relevence in the case that we are TALKING ABOUT
he’s played more 1b than the Of the past two years. He likely has below average athleticism foir the Of (though the numbers dont back this up) but above average for 1b.
Just using common sense here. You have enough of it that you can probably deduce that he is quite solid at 1B and not at all bad.
May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house.
-George Carlin
by casejud on Sep 4, 2010 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
you're pretty obviously the one drawing reasonable conclusions
jar seems fixated on nixing your reasonable assessment, for whatever reason. A guy voted best defensive 1B in his league, even if it is a low, thin league, and who has played CF and has done okay at OF for the time being, can be reasonably assumed to have the tools and skills to be an above average 1B. It’s not a cinch, but it’s an assumption worth making until something proves otherwise . . .
I just value the limited scouting information more than a league vote
That’s what I’m basing my opinion on and I still fail to see how playing outfield affects his ability to play first base.
http://bullpenbanter.com/
It's just simply a gauge of athleticism.
It’s hard to think of a guy capable of even pretending to play a passable OF who didn’t end up being a decent 1B when given time to adjust — I guess Erstad comes first to mind here. Pujols was a decent 3B and LF when he switched over to first. The skills that made them good enough at more challenging positions transferred to first. Was Jim Edmonds a decent 1B?
We're talking about current skills though, right?
Not whether he could be a decent first baseman in time. In fact, I fully believe that first base is his future position.
http://bullpenbanter.com/
It seems like you're conversely ignoring the data points that indicate poor defense at 1B
I don’t have any strong feelings on the subject of his defense, but lets not act like jar is making this up.
Bullpen Banter
www.bullpenbanter.com
twitter: @alskor
It seems like you’re conversely ignoring the data points that indicate poor defense at 1B
Not trying to be a smartass here but, can someone post or direct me to a link that shows the data or scouting reports that indicate poor defense?
I’m not talking about 1 line blurbs from tweets or chat questions either. Thanks.
No, well, maybe
Of course, I assume he’s pretty decent at both OF and 1B. Here’s Ben Badler calling him “solid” at both spots…
http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=9794
Here’s an interview with Sands where he explains that he has played OF his whole life and just learned to play 1B when he turned pro. This might explain why he has GOOD numbers in the OF and dipshits here are trying to tell me he can’t play there
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/prospect-q-and-a/2010/2610013.html
this one is from his College days but it full of glowing reports on his defense and athleticism
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:dH68hO6gqmwJ:www.salisburypost.com/Sports/061408-Jerry-Sands2008-06-15T02-02-43+jerry+sands+scouting+report&cd=9&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house.
-George Carlin
Apparently those don't count
I’m not talking about 1 line blurbs from tweets or chat questions either.
Or maybe its just the ones that disagree with his preconceived notion that don’t count.
Bullpen Banter
www.bullpenbanter.com
twitter: @alskor
i don't have any preconcieved notions
trust me, as a dodger fan, i was the first to be skeptical of sands. but after seeing interviews with people that have seen him everyday talk glowingly about his defensive abilities, those tend to take more weight than off comment conjectures from goldstein; where I doubt he did much research into him. That’s fine though, at the end of the year, due to his prospect status rising they’re will be more scouting reports that come out on him.
And I feel my updated comment better reflects the information I was working under
We will indeed see what the major sources say at the end of the year.
http://bullpenbanter.com/
Lol just lol
Have you seen him play, no, I just wrote what I think about him anyway.
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
Right
Because even BA, BP, Keith Law, or any other sight has seen every player with a significant sample size. Wow, you’re a prick.
Come check out Bullpen Banter!
Follow Bullpen Banter on Twitter
Follow me on Twitter
Remember: baseball guys... baseball...
Im going to try to reply to everyone
Here is the problem with Sands. He was pretty bad going into this year. Didn’t really stand out, but had great potential(potential is the obvious term here). He found said potential in A ball. It was nice, but it was written off, for the most part. And when many people asked guys like Klaw, Goldstein and such, they got answers like “need more info”. They haven’t seen him play, so they look at his build. 6’4, 225, was moved to 1B in AA(even though that was because of necessity to get guys who had to be OF to succeed playing time), he is most likely slow and has poor range. He hadn’t played many games in the past, and hadn’t done anything special like stealing bases at an amazing clip, so it was assumed by many that he has below average range and foot speed, making him a poor OF. People get one scout to agree, and they post 1 line tweets, saying “scout confirms my analysis that Sands is a poor defensive OF”, and everyone takes it like it is the Holy Grail.
Now, I personally don’t understand why you won’t take into account the managerial list/ranking. These guys see him play most at every position he plays, and would and should have the best idea of his skill set. And, as someone said, many of these guys played in the minors or majors in the past, or were scouts. Let’s face it, MiLB managers have two jobs(especially in lower levels)… teach the guys the game, and try to recognize potential big league players, and get them more playing time than non prospects.
Here is the writeup of the top 200 Dodger prospects by a poster on TBLA, Brandon Lennox. Whenever, I have questions about any prospects, he is the guy to ask, and in a recent writeup of an interview with DeJon Watson he conducted, he said Watson was the only man that probably knows more than he does about the Dodger’s system:
Sands was the Dodgers 25th round pick in 2008 out of Catawba College in North Carolina, a NCAA division II school. During his 3 years at Catawba, Sands had a .381 career batting average and hit 61 home runs. His power numbers continued during his debut season with the Dodgers as he hit 10 HR’s in 46 games, which placed him second in HR’s in the GCL. In my write-up last year, I said "if he has another power outburst in 2009, the Dodgers will be looking at late round gem." Well Sands definitely had another power outburst in 2009, smacking 19 home runs and recording an OPS of 1.019 (which ranked 2nd in the entire Dodgers minor league system for players with at least 175 AB’s). Sands started the season in LoA, but struggled so badly that he was sent back to extended spring training in May. After working on his game, Sands resurfaced in the Pioneer League and was absolutely brilliant. He placed 4th in the league with 14 HR’s despite having just 163 at bats (the three players that ranked ahead of Sands in HR’s had at least 287 at bats), and his 1.114 OPS would have ranked first in the league had he qualified with enough plate appearance. Jerry was promoted back up to the Midwest League in August and this time found much more success, hitting .287 and adding 5 more home runs to his season total. A multidimensional player, Sands makes relatively good contact for a power hitter (he struck out in 19.5% of plate appearances in 2009) and hits the ball to all fields. He also has decent speed and can play all three outfield positions along with first base. However, his most likely destination is right field because of his strong arm and below average range. Overall, Sands is a very intriguing prospect with a very high ceiling. With 29 home runs in 119 games over the past two years, that projects out to almost 40 HR’s over a 162 game schedule. I’m not saying that Sands is ever going to hit 40 HR’s in the big leagues, but I think that if he continues to improve, he has the chance to be a solid MLB regular. That’s pretty good for a former 25th round pick. 2010 should see Sands return to LoA to start the season, but by the end of the year he may find himself in AA.
He says Sands has decent speed(effident by the 18/2 SB/CS ratio in A ball and AA combined), but below average range in RF, with a strong throwing arm… Potentially Andre Ethier like, except he doesn’t have massive RHP/LHP splits and can play 1B.
I guess what I am saying, along with many others, is if you don’t like a guy, that is totally understandable. Prospecting is very opinionated. However, it is difficult to understand your ideas and accept them when what you back it with is a quote from a source(while very reputable), who has not seen him play and is going off the same info, more or less, than what we have as normal fans. Especially, when there are reports of people who watch him daily that disagree with the 2nd hand reports…
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Sep 6, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I found the quote that stuck into my head, and updated my comment:
JR- I know there is a lot of support, especially by Dodgers fans, for Jerry Sands as an outfielder. He has indeed played a lot of games in the corner this season, but is he really someone that you want to play in the outfield? Described often as a bat-only prospect, Kevin Goldstein expanded earlier in the year: “He’s a bad outfielder and even worse first baseman, so he has to keep mashing.”. I am sure he could be a Jason Kubel-esque defender, but I would rather live with him at first. He has had a great year with the bat, but I am not totally on board. In a recent chat, Keith Law said: “Definitely not top 50, probably not top 100. Even scouts I know who like him don’t see him as much more than a slightly above-average starter.”
http://bullpenbanter.com/
Sure
I might agree with the overall assesment of him as a player (slightly above average regular) but, I don’t think the more tragic reports of hus defense are accurate. Especially now that I know Goldstein is involved. Love Goldtein, smart guy, love his work – extremely innacurate about players defense. He persoanlly TOLD me Jed Lowrie’s defense was a problem – he gets called up – it ISNT – meaning we yacked about it insessantly on here for NOTHING.
May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house.
-George Carlin
By The Way
I just want to point out that, to me, this is an OUTSTANDING 1B class.
Hosmer, Freeman, and Alonso all look like far above average regulars at the position and so does Singleton.
Belt has the potential to be a solid regular as well. I’d have to look but, It’d be hard to imagine many seasons in which there were 4-5 future good big league 1B in a given minor league year. I should check.
May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house.
-George Carlin
in 2008....
many people would have said that there were more than that many players who “looked” like future good big league players (Daric Barton, Beau Mills, Kyle Blanks, Lars Anderson, Chris Marrero, both Chris Carters, Stevie Pearce, Andrew Lambo…..) who were heralded as top 1B prospects, but we now see how that’s turned out. Barton is quality, Chris Carter still looks like he could be alright, same with Kyle Blanks, but they rest of that list is filled with fliers.
This is why I cannot place a 1B very high on any prospect list; nearly everything has to go right with their bat for them to be quality players, and the success rate of them being that good at the major league level is too low for me to place too much value in them.
Adoptive parent of Kyle Nicholson
Okay, thats cool
its your ranking method so I cant argue.I thought Mills would be good to but, I don’t say all 1b are the same because of it though. Personally I think the thing to do Is look at the 2008 guys and the 2010 guys and see if you see any differences – I do but, maybe thats just me.
May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house.
-George Carlin
I think freeman is a lot closer to hosmer than many are thinking
they are 1a and 1b to me… and they will probably rank within 5-6 spots when i complete my top 150 for the 2010 season
this is a cool/ good list
If i was involved I’d go:
1. Hosmer #12/14 overall
2. Freeman #28 overall
(Logan Morrison)
3. Brandon Belt #38-42 overall
4. Yonder Alonso
5. Jonathan Singleton
6. Anthony Rizzo
7. Jerry Sands
-- = top 100
8. Rich Poythress
9. Lars Anderson
10. Yelich/Trumbo/ Moore
I called on the exact pitch - Joe Mauer's first career Home-Run at Target Field !!!
Why Oh Why did the D'Backs select A.J. Pollock over Mike Trout?
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Sep 4, 2010 1:40 AM EDT reply actions
although Sands and Rizzo should both be borderline top 100 guys...
Poythress is my best guy outside the top 100
somewhere in the 120-130 range….
I called on the exact pitch - Joe Mauer's first career Home-Run at Target Field !!!
Why Oh Why did the D'Backs select A.J. Pollock over Mike Trout?
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Sep 4, 2010 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Hosmer, Freeman and Alonso are the only three that will definitely make my top 100
http://bullpenbanter.com/
Did Chris Carter get hit by a bus or something?
Or are we calling him a left fielder now?
And where’s Brandon Allen? I’d have to include him on this list.
I like baseball.
I write for Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times Fantasy
Ah, nevermind I didn't see the header at the top
Still, I find it curious to omit guys like Carter, who clearly are still going to retain their prospect status going into 2011.
I like baseball.
I write for Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times Fantasy
by Satchel Price on Sep 4, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Allen has had
one of the more interesting years for a 1B, eve if he isn’t eligible. Looks like he’s finally delivering on his promise. The reports of his adjusted swing are promising. Potential .260-.270 hitter with patience and power. How long until the A’s trade for him? lol
by blackoutyears on Sep 4, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Just makes it easier overall
That way you’re not making a judgement call on a guy that is borderline to maintain prospect status, or keeping questions like why is Player X on here but not Player Y. Beyond that, I’m wondering if we aren’t going to see some shift in what constitutes prospect status. For the most part it’s just been the ROY AB/IP marks, but last year Daniel Bard was left off of list due to service time. I’m curious to see what happens with say Jenrry Mejia this year.
http://bullpenbanter.com
If the Mets keep Mejia in the rotation
There’s a good chance he’ll surpass 50 IP. He’s at 32.2 after today’s game with a month left in the season.
http://bullpenbanter.com/
Wow...
1B prospects are a-lackin. Thank goodness for that Hosmer fellow.
Keep in mind
The majority of 1B in the majors played a different position in the minors.

by 













