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Justin Smoak vs Ike Davis


I will admit, this is a fantasy question.  I apologize, I typically don't make such posts, but i could use some of your informed opinions.  Heading into the season, Smoak would have been the preferred choice in a keeper league (standard 5x5 roto).  However, a lot has changed since (his struggles, and trade to Seattle).  I'm not really concerned about Smoak's poor numbers because his underlying stats indicate that he would doing much better than what the surface numbers showed.  My concern from a fantasy perspective is that he is now away from the hitter friendly Rangers Ballpark and into the spacious Safeco Field.  Ike Davis himself also plays in a pitcher friendly park, so I think its a wash.  I think the Mets lineup is better, which will provide better opportunities to pile up stats (Runs/RBIs).  Going forward, who do you think will be the better fantasy contributor?

Poll
Justin Smoak or Ike Davis? (Keeper League - 5x5 Roto)
Justin Smoak
148 votes
Ike Davis
62 votes

210 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 26 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Safeco is spacious to right-handed hitters.

Made for left-handed hitters. Smoak spending most of his time from the left-side, he won’t have a problem hitting 25-30 homers as a Mariner. And he’ll have some combination of Ackley/Ichiro/Figgins hitting in front of him. And you being a well-informed person on the subject of prospects know how much better Smoak profiles than Ike Davis. Davis hasn’t hit well this season either. It’s obviously not the same situation it was in Texas, but its not that bad for a switch-hitter.

by Kenneth Arthur on Sep 2, 2010 1:30 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

can't argue with you on that

From skills perspective, Smoak definitely gets the edge. I was just curious to see what you guys thought the impact of the trade to Seattle would be from a fantasy perspective. Who do you believe has a higher HR potential, Smoak or Davis?

R.I.P. cwhitman412, Frederick0220, & Mets2k9

by Dewey Finn on Sep 2, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Davis

all he is going to do is hit bombs, not much else

by tenags on Sep 2, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Smoak easy

I can’t see how this is really a debate. But, you know, have at it.

by FI2 on Sep 2, 2010 1:32 PM EDT reply actions  

Not that crazy

Smoak has had the better eye ratio stats historically. Lots of walks and fewer strikeouts. Ike has had K issues. Smoak seems like the better contact guy.

Ike seems like he has more power. He does take a walk.

In their limited major league samples the differences aren’t huge. Smoak seems to have had some bad luck, and he pressed in Seattle it seems. His K/BB there was atrocious.
Smoak’s line drive rate is much higher (22% to 15%). But his Infield fly rate is also much higher (20% to 7%). His flyball rate is slightly lower (39 to davis’s 42% about). There HR/FB rates are very similar.

In AA Ike was helped by a massive babip, but he had a much higher ISO (.153 to .256). Smoak had better averages and a huigher walk rate, and lower k rate. That advantage didn’t wuite carry over. In the majors thus far Smoak has k/bb%s of 26.8%/11.5%, Davis 27.7/11.3%. That seems about what you’d expect from Davis, not as good as you’d think for Smoak based on his minor league lines.

Smoak’s plate discipline stats don’t have the huge advantage one would think from their minor league samples, but given their k/bb, this seems logical.

Outside swing? Smoak 28.1%, Davis 28.6%. Zone swing: Davis 64.8%, Smoak 62.2%.
Overall contact rate, davis at 75.1, Smoak at 77.7%. Swinging strike rate, davis 10.2, Smoak 9.2%.

Smoak has slightly better components. He was hurt somewhat last year (I think Davis was too in 2008).

They both were a little rushed, Davis more so, because at least Smoak had 1/3rd of a seson in AAA last year. They are about the same age. davis 3 months younger, no big deal at 23.

I think they both will do better. Smoak will hit for higher averages and walk more. Davis will probably hit more homers at his peak, but Smoak may build on his power output.

It’s funny, i have them both in fantasy this year, pretty disappointing. First base has become a black hole for me. I had Konerko and dealt him after April (sell high!) for Smoak. Major mistake, although it’s a keepr league, i didn’t mean to completely punt this year. I later dealt Smoak for Ortiz because, hey, they’ll always be prospects. Davis only plays because Berkman has also been a black hole for me.

I think I like davis a bit more than most, and I like Smoak and think he’ll overall be better, but i think it’s a tad closer than people think, and I do think Ike has more isolated power. But when i tried to move him in my league no one wanted him, whereas Smoak still had takers (but he’s cheaper the way we go about keeping players, because he has more points since he’s played more and outproduced Smoak, superficially at least).

All tiny samples of course relatively. Just so no one comes back and says Smoak is way better, you’re crazy, not even worth discussing. Someone may anyway.

Davis has the higher ISO, .171 to .138.

by wobatus on Sep 2, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is a 5x5 keeper league

No one cares about walk rates…

Who will get more HR?
Davis

Who will have better Avg?
Smoak

Who will have more RBI and Runs?
Lets assume that Smoak will project in the Mariners lineup as a #3 or 4 hitter, and Davis projects in the Mets lineup as the #4 or #5 hitter.
Smoak will have a some good hitters in front of him, but no one behind him – except for maybe Franklin Gutierrez or Michael Saunder. Davis will have good hitters in front of him AND in back of him (if you still believe in Angel Pagan). My gut still wants to say Smoak because he has a better chance to put the ball in play, but Davis’ slugging ability eventually wins me over.

DAVIS in RBI and RUNS

Stolen Bases?
PUSH

by tenags on Sep 2, 2010 3:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Walk rates

I don’t play 5×5, but walk rates may matter as far as projecting future performance of a hitter beyond simply the walks themselves. They both score well on that account, Smoak much more so based on his minor league lines.

by wobatus on Sep 2, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I think the difference in HR will be pretty minimal

Davis isn’t exactly a great power hitter. I think both are 20-25 HR guys.

by nixa37 on Sep 2, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Davis

could hit 35 in a peak year. Maybe not a better than 50% chance of it, but I think his power peak will be higher than Smoak’s. His power outage since July doesn’t help my case. The guy had 15 in his first 328 major league at-bats basically skipping AAA.

by wobatus on Sep 2, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jeff Francoeur had 14 in his first 257 major-league at-bats after completely skipping AAA. And we all know how that turned out.

http://www.chop-n-change.com

by alexwithclass on Sep 2, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Understood

And it isn’t ironclad. However, it’s not exactly out of line as a possibility. He hit 13 in about 200 AA at-bats last year. He walks way more than Frenchy, better plate discipline, so he may eventually learn to drive his pitch. He just doesn’t swing at as many bad pitches as Frenchy always has. I’m not exactly being singular as other people have said he has 35 homer potential. Well, Projectprospect did. i don’t think john saw himasa 35 guy (and i did say maybe the odds aren’t better than 50% as a peak). BA gave him a 65 rating for power on a 20-80 scale.

by wobatus on Sep 2, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

From a scouting perspective Davis has great power

His swing is oriented to hit long fly balls with backspin. 30~ish HR years in his prime is a reasonable power ceiling for him.

by jibs on Sep 2, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Short term: Davis

Long term: Smoak.

For the reasons you stated. The Mets have at least a league average hitting offense at the moment while the Mariners do not. Though things could change by the start of next season, for now it has to be Davis’ time. Smoak should be better as the years go by, and if the Mariners do truly bring in some better bats next season or if the younger guys like Ackley / Moore / Smoak etc all figure things out and actually provide some offense, then maybe you can do him instead for next season. For now, tho, Davis has a better bet to be an immediate contributor.

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Sep 2, 2010 5:00 PM EDT reply actions  

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