SS Danny Espinosa Promoted to AAA
by Daggerrrrrr on Aug 6, 2010 1:46 PM EDT
Email
Print
Danny's on his way
Two days after Nationals SS prospect Danny Espinosa hit 3home runs in a game, the Nats move him up AAA Syracuse. And there's talk that he will be an September call-up. With Espinosa and Wilson Ramos coming up soon, the Nat defense has gotten alot better. / YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES /
82 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Out where? Syracuse? Sure..
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day."
-Frank Sinatra
The best thing going for his prospect status is the graduation of other shortstops to the major leagues.
by Kenneth Arthur on Aug 6, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Flores (assuming he can stick, which I doubt), Nick Franklin, Manny Machado (if he signs), Grant Green,
Those are the only SS I would have above him. Some might have Hak-Ju Lee/Dee Gordon/Jose Iglesias/Miguel Sano/Reese Havens ahead of him.
I agree with this for sure, especially if Havens returned to SS.
My list is longer but only because Espinosa hasn’t done much to solidify himself ahead of any of them. I could see a GM wanting all of those guys ahead of Espinosa for one reason or another.
But he’s certainly behind:
Machado, Colon, Franklin, Flores, Green, Lee, Iglesias, Sano, and Havens.
by Kenneth Arthur on Aug 6, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
agree with this list
of the recent draftees, Machado for sure, but I might wait until Colon has a few pro months, I wasn’t particularly high on him. But the rest of those guys for sure.
by PrincetonCubs on Aug 6, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I've always really liked Espinosa, and he is probably in the 60 range for me, next to guys like Colon and Sano (probably a bit ahead)
I’m pretty high on Espinosa, but its hard to put him above Franklin and Flores, and even Green. He is a great prospect, one I’d love to have for sure, but top overall SS, while you COULD make an argument (Flores probably won’t stick, Green has a few questions, and Machado is a question mark), it wouldn’t be on his merits, but rather the shortcomings of others.
Agreed that he's behind all of those guys
I’d add Dee Gordon.
Oh, and probably Tim Beckham, who’s been playing MUCH better of late.
I like baseball.
I write for Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times Fantasy
by Satchel Price on Aug 7, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Kinda disagree here
Iglasias with his zero homers in 40 games in the EL? He’s a pretty decent hitter but Espinosa has hit 37 homera the past two years and has a nice glove too. Id say that is solifying himelf or, are you that obsessed with batting average?
Havens is hurt again and hasn’t played a game at SS this year.
Grant Green will likely hit for a nigher average than Espinosa but, has terrible defensive stats.
Jury’s out on Colon, and Machado – and Sano isn’t a SS. I think Franklin will end up the bet hitter of the bunch but, he may move to second.
I’d say he’s NOT certainly behind Machado, Colon, Franklin, Flores, Green, Lee, Iglesias, Sano or Havens. especially if half those kid aren’t going to play SS.
Why would he be behind Lee? Lee looks like a kid who will stick at SS, get on base some, and be a very good glove. Espinosa is a very good glove who should put ome runs on the board.
Rip Fredrick0220, cwhitman412, Mets2k9- mis you guys
playing devil's advocate, I'm not as high on Lee as Espinosa, or in general (compared to most people)
but Lee is supposed to be even a step above at SS in terms of his tools (we’ll see going forward, I’d be surprised if he is so much better than Espinosa), but looks to have less holes in his offensive game. Espinosa has the power/speed, but his contact ability and disappearance of plate discipline is a concern to some. Of course, I feel more confident considering we have seen some good plate discipline from Espinosa, as opposed to someone who hasn’t shown it as much yet, but there is room for concern that his BA/OBP will never be enough to avoid getting eaten up by MLB pitching on the offensive end.
I think the overall point is not that he is behind all those guys, because he has arguments to make over every single one of them individually, but you’d be hard pressed to find someone who finds him the best of the bunch. I think he is in the discussion, and it isn’t a completely outrageous claim, but its more the lack of true argument provided to support it that has sparked the retaliation.
Drew Cumberland I like better than Espinsosa
but not all the guys Navi listed at all
If Carlos Gomez could net J.J. Hardy then Wilson Ramos should have netted at Least Matt Capps...
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Aug 8, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I never said I would take all those guys over Espinosa
I would only take Green/Franklin/Flores (if Flores even counts), but I just made the point that there are quite a few guys other people might take over him.
ah
Nick Franklin
Dee Gordon
Grant Green
To name a few
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day."
-Frank Sinatra
Dee Gordon
has become a forgotten man of late, but I still think he can put it together. If not he can become a reliever and be compared to his Dad like every other black reliever under 6’ 2’’.
"The key to winning baseball games is pitching, fundamentals, and three run homers."
by fourfingerwoo on Aug 6, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
-1
Never have been on the Dee Gordon Bandwagon, and I’m certainly not more convinced after this season’s performance. I also usually need to see some stats before I buy into tools, though. Given the choice between espinosa and Gordon, I’d take Espinosa without really debating it too much, to be honest
-1 and only member of the Nick Weglarz fan club!
Well I know you're going to dispute these two, but they will be better the moment they sign.
Manny Machado and Christian Colon.
Current?
I could make a good argument for:
Tim Beckham
Grant Green
Miguel Sano (Still plays some SS)
Carlos Triunfel
Nick Franklin
Jose Iglesias
Dee Gordon
Edward Salcedo
Wilson Flores
Hector Gomez
Hak-Ju Lee
Jio Mier
Should I continue?
by Kenneth Arthur on Aug 6, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I rather have Espinosa than all of those guys being listed.
And there’s no question to if Danny can stay at SS.
Be real with yourself.
Please go run any team in the AL West besides the Mariners.
by Kenneth Arthur on Aug 6, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
I am right there with you and, if you subtract Flores as a probable 3b, and Franklin as a posible 2b that leaves Espinosa battling it out a the best current SS. This makes him a pretty darned underrted player in my mind.
Rip Fredrick0220, cwhitman412, Mets2k9- mis you guys
There is no reason, none, for you to move Franklin to 2B already.
If I could stick my head up a butchers ass…
by Kenneth Arthur on Aug 7, 2010 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions
lol
No reason? I think Franklin can play a big league SS but, he is ALREADY playing 2b. I think that count as one reason doesn’t it?
Rip Fredrick0220, cwhitman412, Mets2k9- mis you guys
Hey, don't tell me things I don't know. It makes me look bad.
Mostly he plays SS. I wasn’t aware that he played some 2b this year, but I’m guessing it’s so that Noriega could get a little bit of time at SS himself. Nick is a future shortstop. There haven’t been any rumblings, that I’ve heard, that he’s having any defensive issues.
by Kenneth Arthur on Aug 9, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Right
Franklin should be fine at SS, I was surprised when I started hearing all the 2B talk. Noriega is/will be a better fielder than Franklin, but its still a huge question mark if he will make it out of AA with the way he is hitting. Love the kid though, so wouldn’t be surprised to see Franklin at 2B far down the road =p.
Sure
but you are OUT of your mind if you think Jiovanni Meir will EVER be as good of a baseball player as Danny Espinosa.
You may not like Daqnny because of his batting average but he has POP and a GLOVE and Meir cannot hit at all or field as well.
No, you should NOT go on.
Rip Fredrick0220, cwhitman412, Mets2k9- mis you guys
This, I think they have comporable gloves, but Mier will never have the power/speed Espinosa does
although he could bounce back and provide more contact ability. If they were at the same level, then maybe there would be an argument to be had, because there are some holes with Espinosa, but considering he is doing this in AAA makes it completely different.
This Nats fan winces at this Nats bias.
Inability to look at our team’s prospects objectively is one of the things that gets us dissed around baseball and other message boards as being less than true fans.
On a desperate search for Sunshine at Nats Park. In Rizzo and Ramos we trust.
+1
um, please visit my soccer (football) blog. it's interesting, I promise. por favor? (filbertway.com)
Sunshine will come to Nats Park, I promise. (visit por favor? my website)
Arguments for all
I feel about SS the same way I do about starting pitching in the minors right now (after Hellickson): arguments can be made for a whole lot of different players. I don’t think I would really look at anyone weird if they made an argument for any of those players as the top shortstop around.
Ffrom that list, I like Green, Franklin, and Iglesias the most, and dislike Beckham, Lee, and Mier. I don’t count Flores, Sano, or Triunfel because I don’t think there’s a realistic chance of them sticking at Short.
But really, until Machado signs, no one stands out. And even Machado has a long ways to go before we talk about him as a realistic potential contributor.
-1 and only member of the Nick Weglarz fan club!
I saw this and was going to wait to mention this until today's gamethread.
I’m a Nats fan and I like Espinosa as much as anyone, but I think most people don’t view as a Top 50 prospect, 3 HR in one game is the definition of sample size, and MLB promotions not AAA promotions are worthy of fanposts. That said, it’s always good to see other Nats fans around here, and hope you’ll be more active in gameday threads (where it seems there’s less interest in Nats prospects) and on Federal Baseball.
On a desperate search for Sunshine at Nats Park. In Rizzo and Ramos we trust.
Most Nat fans are bureaucrats in DC
and have more important things to do then troll minorleagueball, social engineering has no idle time.
"The key to winning baseball games is pitching, fundamentals, and three run homers."
by fourfingerwoo on Aug 6, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm just an offseason educator.
Hopefully you don’t get consider me a troll. And congratulations to your Orioles for showing some improvement so far under Showalter.
On a desperate search for Sunshine at Nats Park. In Rizzo and Ramos we trust.
Bureaucrats
Have plenty of time to troll message boards. I only wish they did it more, instead of spending money on stupid shit. Besides, most of the transient types aren’t Nats fans.
interesting
I had him at No. 42 heading into this season.
Nice work
You are sharp guy Man.Maybe I would have too If I had done my homework better. I kinda overlooked him but I am coming around to him and think he is one of the better baseball players in the minors right now.
Im not talking to you specifically here Kupe – rant alert! Epinosa is even more likeable because batting average is his weeknesa frankly. Where are all sabermetric geeks when you need them! ? Where is your BABIP slide rule and LD rates?You have all abandoned your exhibit A here, epecially vs the likes of a Dee Gordon.
I like Dee Gordon’s athletic ability but, what advantages doe he possibley have over Espinosa even in a perfect world? 15-20 singles a year? While Espinosa hits 10-15 more homers, has a better glove, steals bases too. I don’t get that one.
Rip Fredrick0220, cwhitman412, Mets2k9- mis you guys
I certainly saw him high on some lists preseason as well.
I thought that he might have slipped a bit due to his initial struggles in the Eastern League and continuing concerns about contact with falling OBP. Again, you and others here probably know more than me. I saw him in person a few times last year and saw more of the whiffs than the plus SS power we’re seeing now in those specific games. When he struggled in the Eastern League to start the season, I saw it as more confirming the contact concerns and moving him somewhere toward the back end of the top 100 rather than moving forward. Certainly, he’s making a rush to the finish to move higher on those top 50 lists.
On a desperate search for Sunshine at Nats Park. In Rizzo and Ramos we trust.
I'm with you, I'm kind of dissapointed in how he has preformed this year (not overly so), considering the drop in OBP
but he will still be moving up a decent amount in my rankings (around 80 coming in should probably have been around 40 (and probably 50 spots ahead of Alcides shakes head) and will probably be between 40-60 at the end) because of graduations and because I realize, despite the fact that I liked him, that I underrated him coming into the year. One of those things you work on as you familiarize yourself more and more with a discipline, trusting your gut, instead of just building off what other people have built in front of you.
SSS
Except when the 3 homer game is more than some of thew other cantidates SEASONS! Hello Lee, Gordon, Iglesias, Meir – lol
I do not think it is premature to count a 23 year old player who has hit for denet power in A+ and AA as have a little bit of an edge over many of theae guys mentioned in POP and with the glove and, thats more than half the battle isn’t it?
Rip Fredrick0220, cwhitman412, Mets2k9- mis you guys
Good to see...
I do not for-see a September call-up unless he really hits well in AAA. I could see him starting at SS for Nats in 2011 especially if he applies himself in Winter Ball like Rizzo wants him to. Desmond should move to 2nd in my opinion.
from a fantasy perspective
Espinosa is gonna be solid. 20/20!
R.I.P. cwhitman412, Frederick0220, & Mets2k9
Just 3 (Hanley, Rollins, Tulo) I think....
Making Espy pretty darn valuable eh.
R.I.P. cwhitman412, Frederick0220, & Mets2k9
There have been 22 seasons of 20/20 ball from a shortstop.
There is nothing in the world to suggest that Espinosa will join the Tulo/Rollins/Hanley category. Nothing.
by Kenneth Arthur on Aug 6, 2010 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions
All Monsters Attack (1969): Kid calls on Godzilla (in dream form) to help him vanquish his bullies.
All it takes is one child’s dream and anything is possible.
(Incidentally enough, the kid’s name in the movie is Ichiro.)
Niot true
This suggest it is possible. BP’s peak projection from the EL projects him to have 17 homers and 13 steals in 396 Abs – projected to full-time playing time that would put him right about there. Specifically, guys power actually goes UP normally, when they reach the big leagues if they can keep the average up. He also projects as a .220 hitter but with enough other plusses to make him a player pop, glove, makeup.
I think you are seriously, and militantly, underating the guy, and for why? Is at all because of the batting average?
Rip Fredrick0220, cwhitman412, Mets2k9- mis you guys
this
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/pageEASpeak.shtml
Rip Fredrick0220, cwhitman412, Mets2k9- mis you guys
Besides
20/20 is kind of a meaningless stat group. Both numbers are exceedingly average. I’m sorry, but a guy who can do one of those two things consistently is far more valuable then a guy who manages to do one of them every 8 games or so.
Would you rather have a 10 HR and 35 steal guy? How about a 25/15 guy?
Id rather have the 25/15 guy
Steals are cute but, home runs matter.
Nothing average about 20 bombs from a SS that I know of, is there/
Rip Fredrick0220, cwhitman412, Mets2k9- mis you guys
Unless you consider
That in the last few years guys like Hardy, Drew and Ramirez have all done it.
Again, 20 home runs is, to me, a meaningless plateau, especially when thats the high end projection for a player. Espinosa doesn’t look like he will ever hit for a high average, has average at best power and doesn’t take a high enough number of walks for me. If the power drops even a bit (say 12-13 HR) hes no better then Desmond.
This is kind of what I fear.
Although, it looks like his defense will be better than Desmond’s regardless.
On a desperate search for Sunshine at Nats Park. In Rizzo and Ramos we trust.
20 HR isn't average at best power
is there anyone that has seen Espinosa and said “that guy looks like he has average power at best”. Its completely contrary to what I’ve heard. 20 HR, especially from a SS, is very good power, and Hardy, when he was still hitting, was a great player (4.9 and 4.4 WAR seasons in his 2 years over 20 homers) for two years. When you consider Espinosa’s glove is comparable (probably worse than +10 per season, its hard to predict that from anyone) to Hardy’s, he has the added dimension of plus speed/baserunning, and projects to potentially have more plate discipline than Hardy, I see no reason why for his absolute ceiling/prime prediction a 5 – 6 WAR season couldn’t be in there.
Look at all the 30/30 seasons and you'll see a lot of guys that fell off or stopped stealing bases.
It’s definitely overrated. But the idea was brought up of the 20/20 season and I only felt it necessary to show how high those expectations are.
by Kenneth Arthur on Aug 7, 2010 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Espinosa's in the starting lineup for Syracuse tonight.
He’s batting 6th and Ramos is batting 5th. No word on how Syracuse is responding to the devastating loss of Kevin Mench.
On a desperate search for Sunshine at Nats Park. In Rizzo and Ramos we trust.
I don't play fantasy so I can't really offer but so much insight.
Plus I’ve only really been following him closely for the less than a week he’s been with the Nats. Others are more qualified here than me. He’s got pop, but he doesn’t walk at all. I guess playing time is one of the other issues. The Nats really like Pudge, but he’s a major upgrade at backup catcher today. I’d imagine that he’ll get a September callup and be given a legit chance to make the opening day roster. I’d keep him at Syracuse for another half season and the Nats have been conservative in the past, but he’d be a major upgrade at backup for sure and possibly starter if Pudge continues his cratering ways at the plate. Pudge has been horrible at the plate lately and I believe he leads the NL in GIDPs.
Hope that helps and look forward to what others have to say.
On a desperate search for Sunshine at Nats Park. In Rizzo and Ramos we trust.
1996 Javy Lopez: .282/.322/.466, with 23 HR 69 RBI. I'd say this is peak season for Ramos.
by Kenneth Arthur on Aug 6, 2010 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1
I can buy that
"The A's have to be setting some record this year for simultaneously maximizing team quality and player anonymity. I guess that’s sort of their thing though." - Luke in MN
+1 more
Thanks for the comp
On a desperate search for Sunshine at Nats Park. In Rizzo and Ramos we trust.
I can see that
I’ve been tossing around Bengie Molina comps on the guy offensively for a while now…put in the right spot in the batting order with the right lineup, he could possibly hit triple digits in RBI, but 20ish homers as a peak with a .270-.280 average in his best average years….
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
I'm gonna say that guys who get on base as little as Ramos typically don't hit higher than 6th.
The power is nice but shouldn’t be enough to have him hitting 3rd or 5th.
by Kenneth Arthur on Aug 9, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Espinosa with his 1st HR in AAA tonight.
Brings his total for the year to 19. Keep it up Danny.
Be real with yourself.
I think it's worth reminding everyone that the current SS crop is pretty weak
You have the graduations of Escobar and Castro, and nobody really has taken their place.
There really isn’t a guy in the minors right now that plays shortstop and would be regarded as an elite prospect.
You have guys like Sano and Flores, who really aren’t shortstops. And then you have guys like Iglesias and Espinosa, where there’s a pretty huge divide among scouts in terms of their offensive potential.
I honestly think that people are somewhat underrating Hak-Ju Lee here. I think he could be in for a huge breakout soon. He’s got the tools to be a fantastic defender at shortstop, he’s got plus plus speed, and he’s shown impressive contact skills. The power seems to be a question mark, but I think that he could be arguably the best shortstop in the minors pretty soon.
I like baseball.
I write for Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times Fantasy
It's true, though how often do you have a class of more than 3 or 4 elite shortstops? That's why they are so hard to come by.
I’d say that Machado/Franklin are pretty good and then a bunch of guys who could have that big breakout. Of course I’m a little early on the Machado bandwagon, before he’s played a game. Could the next breakout by Iglesias? Lee? Green? Who knows. I just know if I was going to hold a draft of just shortstops of every shortstop in the minor leagues – there’s a few guys with potential I’d take ahead of Espinosa.
by Kenneth Arthur on Aug 9, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
I get that excitement with Hak-Ju
but Espinosa has more power than Lee might have in his life, already has a very good if not fantastic glove, he’s got plus though not quite plus plus speed, and admittedly has issues with the contact. If, for nothing else, Espinosa’s closeness to the majors along with a refined glove, great power potential from a SS, plus speed, and proven (although worryingly declining) plate discipline skills, despite what may be huge contact, issues, makes me hard to rate a guy so far away from him ahead of him.
Just hit his 2nd AAA jack....
September Call-Up? I think it would be a good idea, especially if he continues to hit jacks.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Minor League Ball
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
