Trade Deadline
by John Sickels on Jul 31, 2010 10:37 AM EDT
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Use this thread to discuss the trade deadline deals. I'm doing analysis of this for Rotowire, but tomorrow I will have a piece here with my personal reaction to each deal. Right now the one that stands out as questionable to me is the White Sox picking up Edwin Jackson for Dan Hudson and David Holmberg...I'm not convinced that Jackson will be any better than Dan Hudson would have been down the stretch.
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Jackson
The rumor is that the Nationals told anyone who wanted Adam Dunn that they wanted Jackson in return. The Chisox then went and made the deal and went back to the Nationals who then went back on their word. There is a lot of controversy regarding this right now.
by King Billy Royal on Jul 31, 2010 10:52 AM EDT reply actions
yikes
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 31, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Rizzo may have just made it damn near impossible to make deals with anybody
I’m not sure if they could, but when teams go back on their word like I’d love to see the other 29 teams say they will absolutely refuse to deal with that team under any circumstances. If nothing else, it’d be fun to see what would happen.
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by thejd44 on Jul 31, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Question:
Why won’t the Red Sox trade for a reliver? i;d think maybe a package of Josh Reddick and Kyle Weiland would get it done for either Downs or Frasor
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 31, 2010 10:53 AM EDT reply actions
I could see Alex A dealing Downs for that package.
Anthopolous loves toolsy guys with big upside so I could definitely see that happening.
by King Billy Royal on Jul 31, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Better than gving up
Kelly or Iglesias, though I have a tough time giving up Wieland, I’d do it for Downs.
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 31, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
because they can't cant out play the Yankees or the Rays this year
and they are smart enough to know that they are in sell mode not sell the farm mode
"The key to winning baseball games is pitching, fundamentals, and three run homers."
by fourfingerwoo on Jul 31, 2010 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd only do it beacuse we are desperate for relivers
Again, I have a tough time giving up Wieland but it’s better than giving up Kelly.
I dont really know my feelings on Reddick right now.
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 31, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Downs is a type A free agent
The Jays are going to require quite a bit to move him.
by King Billy Royal on Jul 31, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
But he's a type A who would make more in arbitration than FA
If you offer him arbitration, you’re pretty much committed to paying him $5M next year. Even as good as he’s been over the last few years, I don’t know that someone beats that on a 2-3 year deal.
by realitypolice on Aug 1, 2010 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Scott Downs isn't accepting a one year deal
This guy has been money in the bank for 4-5 years. Somebody will step up and give him a decent 3 year contract.
by King Billy Royal on Aug 1, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Would you give up your first rounder for him?
While he’s been quite good (and let’s be clear, that’s about 1.2 WAR per year since 2007), are you really prepared to give up a first round pick for the right to have him as a 38 year old mop-up guy four years from now?
by realitypolice on Aug 2, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Westrbook to Cards close
It’s a money issue now, so it really depends on how much the Cards are willing to pay, but what do you guys think is a fair return for Westbrook? I was thinking Craig and a low level pitcher assuming the Indians pay very little of Westbrook’s remaining salary.
3 team deal
Westbrook and a San Diego prospect to St Louis
Ludwick to San Diego
Some mix of prospects to Cleveland
RHP Cory Kluber to Cleveland
I’ll guess LHP Cory Luebke heads to St. Louis.
Keith Law tweeted
Cardinals are getting a minor pitching prospect from the Padres, who are sending a better pitching prospect to Cleveland.
Either Kluber’s the better prospect, or someone broke the story way too soon.
Needs moar dingerz.
kluber isn't a bad prospect
Not a great one, but he has enough stuff to project for an eventual major league role with nice numbers. Nice under the radar guy . . .although as a player in a major trade, I imagine he’s now a player of great interest.
agree
really bizarre. I guess they believe with Jon Jay as a regular, making Ludwick (who’s hitting fine and undervalued defensively) redundant, which is bizarre to me. Westbrook doesn’t do it for me.
by PrincetonCubs on Jul 31, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
As a Cardinals fan...
I have to say this deal really really annoys me.
Jon Jay is a decent player, and Allen Craig is mashing in AAA as usual, so he’ll probably get called up and take some of Ludwick’s time, but this is still a downgrade in the field. Losing around .5 WAR for the rest of the way in the outfield with this for a minor pitching upgrade at the backend of the rotation. Scoring runs has been the Cardinals’ biggest problem, so that makes this move even odder.
It does save some money for this year and more importantly next year since we won’t have to pay the $8 million or so Ludwick will get in arbitration, freeing up some space to sign Albert and make some other depth moves, but I would have to think the return for a guy like Ludwick could be better, even if he only has one year of team control left, especially when we are in the middle of a playoff hunt.
I could live with trading Ludwick now if the return was better, but Jake Westbrook? Blah.
I hope Mo has something else up his sleeve to improve the offense.
The $$ saved next year are meaningless right now
We could still trade Ryan Ludwick in the offseason. Even if we couldn’t find a taker he still provides surplus value over his arbitration award, and he would most likely be a type A free agent the next year so there would be a return on the cost, as well.
The Cardinals made it clear that they could add payroll when they were pursuing Roy Oswalt.
Just doesn’t make sense. The Cardinals don’t have the best farm system, but they certainly have prospects on the level of Kluber. The Indians gave up Westbrook and cash in exchange for him, so why couldn’t the Cardinals just pull that off without dealing away Ludwick? That’d save Ludwick for a potential deal in the offseason or even still at the deadline.
Strauss reports the deal this deal is payroll neutral, which means the Cards overall payroll is lower than projections because Penny’s incentives are now at the point where they will not kick in. Maybe if they can funnel that extra money to sign Austin Wilson fans won’t be so angry about this…
According to Olney/Stark
looks like Lilly and Theriot to the Dodger for Dewitt plus x. Guess the divorce is forcing some rigidity on the salary front, which means if the Cubs keep paying the ~6m left to those two, x might equal one (or two) decent prospect(s). Would love Dewitt, Sands, and Mcdonald as a return.
seems likely
Can’t see this deal getting done without the Cubs cutting a check, and to pass up Lilly’s Type A FA status in a couple of months, it’s got to be a good return. Dodgers fans likely getting ready to cringe.
I don't think the Cubs are "passing up" the Type A status because they likely would not have risked offering arbitration anyway
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by thejd44 on Jul 31, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
It's a done deal.
Stark’s got the details:
LA receives Lilly, Theriot and $2.5M
Chicago receives Blake DeWitt, Kyle Smit and Brett Wallach
I like baseball.
I write for Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times Fantasy
by Satchel Price on Jul 31, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
not quite what I was hoping for
but not bad either, and they’re not footing even half the bill. surprised the dodgers didn’t need more $$
by PrincetonCubs on Jul 31, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I like the deal for the Cubs
Ryan Theriot really sucks. DeWitt is a significant upgrade.
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by thejd44 on Jul 31, 2010 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Brett Wallace called up to play tonights game
…they should send down Huntington & Nutting, because they aren’t ready, either. - royshowell
It's interesting that Houston went with players so close to the majors in the Berkman/Oswalt deals
That organization doesn’t look like it will contend for a couple years, but they targeted guys like Happ, Wallace and Melancon even though they’ll presumably all be arbitration-eligible by the time that the next good Astros team is put together.
Getting Happ and Wallace for Oswalt was a solid deal, but it seems like they were too determined to come away with players that they could show off to the fan base (i.e. players that would contribute in Houston quickly).
I like baseball.
I write for Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times Fantasy
by Satchel Price on Jul 31, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
more likely
Because of all the money they had to hand over in trades, they needed to get some guys who were likely to play in the majors. Otherwise, they spend money . . .so they can spend more money to fill roster spots . . .that aren’t going to help in the short term anyways.
plus
it’s worth a stab to possibly have one or two of these guys perform well enough to generate some excitement among the fans.
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Houston has the payroll to field a bunch of arbitration-eligible players in a few years as talent emerges from the minors. The payroll in 2009 was over $100M. It won’t be especially burdened by players under team control.
You also have to field a big league team now and for the next couple of years. Bringing in some major league ready players helps maintain fan interest.
I like the approach they took because while they brought in MLB-ready guys as the centerpieces, each of them also brought in a raw, toolsy, boom-or-bust guy in an area of great organizational need (middle infield). I’m particularly fond of shortstop prospect Jonathan Villar, who they are sending directly to A+ as a 19 year old.
I joked about this yesterday...
but in all seriousness, better keep Ed Wade away from free agents before he “Brandon Lyon”s away all the money saved.
Bullpen Banter
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He hasn't given out any really damaging contracts
Lyon is overpaid, but compared to contracts like the ones Jason Bay and Chone Figgins were given, it’s a light burden indeed. And he’s done well in an important bullpen role this year.
For all the ridicule Wade has taken over the contract, I suspect based on the reliever market this year that he can flip it down the road (next year’s deadline or the one after) for a decent prospect or two. MLB general managers just don’t value bullpen arms the same way FanGraphs does.
The Lyon deal is pretty bad
He’s a roughly league-average reliever, maybe worse if you believe xFIP, and he’s owed $10.75M through 2012. He doesn’t miss many bats, he’s a fly ball pitcher, and his walk rate has been trending upwards for three years. It simply wasn’t a good investment.
With that said, he made a fantastic move signing Myers. I’ll eat my hat on that one, I didn’t like it at the time but Myers has really proven to be a bargain. But giving Pedro Feliz $4.5M, Brian Moehler $2.3M and Brandon Lyon $15M just seemed entirely unnecessary.
He’s avoided giving out truly awful contracts but he’s never really had a chance to, as the teams been saddled with multiple high-cost deals from the moment he arrived.
I like baseball.
I write for Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times Fantasy
by Satchel Price on Aug 1, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Ryan Kalish promoted to Boston
…they should send down Huntington & Nutting, because they aren’t ready, either. - royshowell
+1
Theo sounded like he’s willing to give him a chance in his media conference. Said he didn’t think there was much reason to go after the available guys out there because the organization feels Kalish is just as good (if not better) option w/o having to give up any prospects in a likely short term trade.
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It's more about the money
In most of these deals than the talent in return. Although the Chris Snyder Pirates-Dbacks swap baffles me! I don’t get it, how about you guys?
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
They dump some salary and give Montero playing time...
It’s not a great deal, but it’s kind of addition by subtraction
"When Justin Upton faces Lincecum, I think Christ might appear in the heavens, and the world will end." -JakeFree
Unbelievable
Buster_ESPN Heard this: The Indians would eat a lot of the money owed to Kerry Wood if the Yankees and Cleveland finish this deal.#trades
…they should send down Huntington & Nutting, because they aren’t ready, either. - royshowell
what is kerry wood worth in 2010
but organization depth
"The key to winning baseball games is pitching, fundamentals, and three run homers."
by fourfingerwoo on Jul 31, 2010 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Neal Huntington, best day as Pirates GM
Lambo and McDonald for Dotel and cash? Even as a Lambo skeptic, I love it.
As well as Joe Martinez
And John Bowker from SF for Lopez. Getting a lot out of these relievers, he’s done well.
"The A's have to be setting some record this year for simultaneously maximizing team quality and player anonymity. I guess that’s sort of their thing though." - Luke in MN
Ugh. As a Giants fan, I hate that trade
I like the Turpen for Ramirez swap though
Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster
good luck
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 1, 2010 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Vandenhurk
to the Orioles for Will Ohman. Marlins needed a reliever that bad?
Its not like they are giving up much
A 25 year old with horrid ML era doesn’t really break the bank
always liked Vandenhurk
he’s a big guy, he’s got decent to plus stuff, has struck out 152 in 155 major league innings. Given the chance, he’s a good back of the rotation starter, could definitely have a few 12-13 win, 4 ERA, 150 K type seasons.
And remember, Will Ohman is, you know, horrible
by PrincetonCubs on Jul 31, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
one more trade
Royals get RHP Jesse Chavez, OF Gregor Blanco and LHP Tim Collins from Braves for OF Rick Ankiel, RHP Kyle Farnsworth and cash.
Moore is actually
getting rid of excess older-get-us-no-where-special guys and finally making the long awaited youth movement. Now he just needs to jettison Guillen…
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Someone replaced the real Moore with a fake one
…they should send down Huntington & Nutting, because they aren’t ready, either. - royshowell
by Marinerfanjake on Jul 31, 2010 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Pirates trade...
dotel to Dodgers for James Mcdonald and Andrew Lambo. Good return for an only decent relief pitcher.
ETHAN MARTIN!!!!
Red Sox
Get Jarrod Saltalamacchia for Roman Mendez and Chris McGuiness. Not a fan of giving up Mendez especially since I have 0-no faith in Salty. It could be alot worse though
Brandon Jacobs of Lowell > Brandon Jacobs of NYG
well you forgot the PTBNL and Cash going from Boston to Texas as well
JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook
Mendez and McGuiness
for Saltalamaccia. What a joke.
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 31, 2010 6:39 PM EDT reply actions
I wonder if the Redsox
see something specific they can fix in Salty. Dude’s still got some serious potential.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 31, 2010 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions
got some good shrinks up in Boston
maybe he can see the Good Will Hunting Doc. :)
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lol
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 31, 2010 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I really like McGuiness
I would have not given him up for another AAAA catcher
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 31, 2010 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
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