Ranking the Leagues: The Florida State League
by mrkupe on Jun 29, 2010 4:40 PM EDT
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PrintMuch delayed, here is the hastily-posted thread. Your options this time around include (but are not limited to):
Bradenton:
Tony Sanchez, Sterling Marte, Brock Holt, Jeff Locke, Bryan Morris
Brevard County:
Kentrail Davis, Cody Scarpetta, Wily Peralta
Charlotte:
Matt Sweeney, Matt Moore, Nick Barnese, Joseph Cruz
Clearwater:
Anthony Gose, Trevor May, J.C. Ramirez, Jesus Sanchez
Daytona:
Brett Jackson, Ryan Flaherty, Josh Vitters, DJ LaMaheiu, Junior Lake, Chris Archer, Brooks Raley, Dae-Eun Rhee, The McNutt
Dunedin:
Travis D'arnaud, John Tolisano, Tyler Pastornicky, Adeiny Hechavarria, Henderson Alvarez, Chad Jenkins
Fort Myers:
Angel Morales, Liam Hendriks, Kyle Gibson, Adrian Salcedo (eligible?), Billy Bullock
Jupiter:
Isaac Galloway, Brad Hand, Jhan Martinez
Lakeland:
Daniel Fields, Charles Furbush, Brayan Villarreal, Jacob Turner
Palm Beach:
St. Lucie:
Wilmer Flores, Josh Satin, Kyle Allen, Jeurys Familia, Scott Moviel
Tampa:
Melky Mesa, Adam Warren, Andrew Brackman, Hector Noesi, Graham Stoneburner, Dellin Betances
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Brackman
Now in the Eastern League w/ Trenton.
I'll give this a whirl
Live in Florida so I catch enough FSL games in Tampa Bay area (mostly attend Lakeland, Clearwater, Tampa games) and Jupiter (Marlins fan) to opine
1. Turner
T-2. Gibson
T-2. B. Jackson
4. Flores
5. Moore
6. Sanchez
7. Barnese
8. D’Arnaud
9. Jenkins
10. Hechavarria
11. Morris
12. May
13. Hand
14. Betances
15. Vitters
16. Henderson Alvarez
17. Hendriks
18. Scarpetta
19. Gose
20. Marinez
Pretty decent crop this year compared to say the Cal league, 1-4 are all B+ at worst, 5-10 are fairly interchangeable and in the B range I would assume, 11-20 are B- types, there might be a B or two in that group.
Archer
Forgot about him since I haven’t seen him pitch. Stats look darn good, if he can keep the walks down it looks he’s a B/B- with a chance of a straight B.
Also I overslotted Hechavarria, he should be more in the 18-20 range with Gose and the other lottery ticket prospects. So I’ll move Hechavarria to 19, Archer to 18, and Marinez off the list (though I think he could be a decent closer for the Marlins by 2012)
by two fishsticks on Jun 29, 2010 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions
How about:
1. Jacob Turner B+
2. Kyle Gibson B+
3. Matt Moore B+
4. Brett Jackson B+
5. Wilmer Flores B+
6. Travis d’Arnaud B/B+
7. Tony Sanchez B/B+
8. Chad Jenkins B
9. Anthony Gose B
10. Nick Barnese B
11. Bryan Morris B
12. Brad Hand B
13. *Adrian Salcedo B
14. Henderson Alvarez B
15. Chris Archer B
16. Hector Noesi B
17. JC Ramirez B
18. Angel Morales B-/B
19. Josh Vitters B-
20. Trey McNutt B-
21. Graham Stoneburner B-
22. Jeff Locke B-
23. Liam Hendriks B-
24. Daniel Fields B-
25. Trevor May B-
26. Andrew Brackman B-
27. Charles Furbush B-
28. Starling Marte B-
29. Kentrail Davis B-
30. Cody Scarpetta B-
31. Wily Peralta B-
32. Dellin Betances B-
33. Jhan Marinez B-/C+
34. Joseph Cruz B-/C+
35. Adeiny Hechavarria C+
My method of ranking is basically going through the list and placing them on the list. So, Tony Sanchez was the start of my list, then I put Starling Marte on beneath him, and did the same for the rest of the names. Then I cut it off at an arbitrary place that is a multiple of 5.
Quick glance says
this is a pretty strong list right here. Grades look right, placement is pretty solid. Not that I’d expect much less from jar75, but it deserved saying anyway.
http://bullpenbanter.com
1. Brett Jackson A-
2. Kyle Gibson A-
3. Jacob Turner B+
4. Matt Moore B+
5. Wilmer Flores B+
6. Nick Barnese B
7. Travis d’Arnaud B
8. Chad Jenkins B
9. Tony Sanchez B
10. Daniel Fields B
11. Bryan Morris B
12. Andrew Brackman B
13. Chris Archer B-
14. Henderson Alvarez B-
15. Josh Vitters B-
16. Trevor May B-
17. Starling Marte B-
18. Angel Morales B-
19. Anthony Gose B-
20. Liam Hendriks B-
Daniel Fields
What has he done to deserve a straight B?
Very strong defense at CF, but looks completely overmatched at the plate the few games I’ve seen him (.687 OPS). I wonder why the Tigers started him out at A+, oh yeah, it’s the Tigers.
by two fishsticks on Jun 29, 2010 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions
not grading performance, but value and potential
He was a strong B-, edging B for me based on his scouting reports coming into this year; for his youth and inexperience, I think he’s doing a damn fine job starting out at hi-A, and I’m especially fond of his walk rate. Recognized toolshed + plate discipline + youth relative to league = me with starry eyes.
Uhh
Putting Brackman at least 9 spots above Hand seems criminal to me at this point.
idk
Hand is a solid prospect, but it sounds like Brackman has had a Randy Johnson-esque discovery in his control, and with that kind of blend of stuff and strikes . . .that’s pretty nice right there.
Funny how it works out. Brackman may have cost a ton to sign, but he looks like a good bet to be at least a respectable reliever, and one solid season of performance alone in that role will pay for that big signing bonus.
I do know
Hand is 4 years younger (granted Brackman has had an erratic career) in the same league with a higher K/9, lower H/9 and lower HR/9 (all of these numbers are fairly close however). Brackman does produce a few more groundballs and issue a few less walks.
And Hand’s stuff is also pretty fantastic — above average FB that sits 91-93, and touches 94-95 to go with one of the best curveballs in the lower minors, and a developing change.
The age gap is so large here, that even if most of the peripherals are the same (which they are close), you have to call Hand the better prospect. I think anything otherwise is a product of Brackman having the larger profile in the prospect world because of his college career and the fact that he’s in the Yankees system, while Hand is a 2nd round prep arm from Minnesota in the Marlins system.
Brackman
I just don’t care about how old he is. This especially applies in his case . . .I read a scouting report on Brackman from his junior year in college in which a scout compared his present state of refinement at that time to that of a high school senior, and that was BEFORE the arm injury.
Hand is a nice arm, yes, and I’m not sure how my own rankings will turn out. But this has little to do with the Yankees . . .Brackman was a much-discussed prospect long before he was drafted by the Yankees.
I'm not sure what to think of Brackman yet
Which is why I only raised him to a B-. Will this new found control and re-emergence of his stuff last? I have no idea at this point.
Herm
Randy Johnson found it at the Major League level. This is only High A ball. Kinda big difference there. Still very skeptical here.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Jun 30, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Curious.
I didn’t know what control was so level relative! The strike zone starts off the size of a fridge in A Ball, and moves to shopping washing machine size in AA, and is roughly the size of the ball itself in the bigs. Unless you’re strasburg, then you get to use A ball rules…to make up for his never having gotten to have pitched there. Its only fair.
Damnit!
Don’t be a smartass without looking at your spelling first.
That control*
erase shopping*
snarky but effective!
Control is largely absolute, command is largely relative. That’s a good way of describing the difference between the two.
Corban Joseph
I think he should be a solid B- prospect in the FSL. He got a C+ last year, but he has performed solidly in A Adv. and is probably a top 10 2B prospect.
Michael McDade
21 yr old with some decent power is an intriguing C+ prospect in Dunedin. slash line of
280/320/498.
A nice deep FSL this year. This is my top-25 roughly
1. Kyle Gibson – B+
2. Jacob Turner – B+
3. Matthew Moore – B+
4. Wilmer Flores – B+
5. Brett Jackson – B+
6. Chad Jenkins – B
7. Tony Sanchez – B
8. Nick Barnese – B
9. Travis D’Arnaud – B
10. Chris Archer – B
11. Bryan Morris – B
12. Josh Vitters – B (I’d love to give him a C+, but if he could be enticed to maybe take a couple pitchers, he could be alright)
13. Bradley Hand – B
14. Hector Noesi – B- or B
15. Henderson Alvarez – B- or B
16. Anthony Gose – B-
17. Andrew Brackman – B-
18. Adrian Salcedo – B- (calling him eligible for this)
19. J.C Ramirez – B-
20. Liam Hendricks – B-
21. Angel Morales – B-
22. Starling Marte – B-
23. Cody Scarpetta – B-
24. Kentrail Davis – B-
25. Dellin Betances – B-
Adoptive parent of Kyle Nicholson
I like d'Arnaud more than Sanchez.
And I don’t know if I’m ready to buy into Chris Archer being that good, but otherwise I agree with most of the majority of this.
I like baseball.
I write for Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times Fantasy
by Satchel Price on Jun 30, 2010 2:19 AM EDT up reply actions
I am a big fan of both those guys (sanchez and archer) and was worried that I might have let my mancrush on them get the better of me in this list
Adoptive parent of Kyle Nicholson
archer
at the end of the day, though, I think a B is fair. Sure, I’m a bit biased, but he’s been one of the most dominant pitchers for the last 2 months in the minors. A good low-mid 90’s fb with movement, a plus curve, and a decent-solid change … I think a B is fair for now. Maybe he bombs at AA and changes things.
Maybe I'm just not ready to accept that maybe Jim Hendry actually got a decent return when he dealt Mark DeRosa
Even though getting Archer, Gaub and Stevens for one year of DeRosa is actually looking like a pretty solid deal now.
I like baseball.
I write for Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times Fantasy
by Satchel Price on Jun 30, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
re: vitters
Dont disagree, but wouldn’t B- come after B? lol
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shut up!
yes, yes it would. I really dislike Vitters, but he does have some form of a pedigree, and I really don’t know what to make of him. If left to myself, I’d make him a fringe C+ probably
Adoptive parent of Kyle Nicholson
Vitters drives me insane as a Chicago guy
Because we keep hearing about this inane hitting ability that just surpasses so many other prospects and makes his sub-par plate discipline and relative impatience to date tolerable, but at the same time it just seems hard to believe that someone like him is really all that great of a prospect.
Maybe it’s because I’m not a scout and I can’t see his swing and hitting ability first-hand very easily, but I just get less and less excited about this kid with every year that we see minimal improvement in his K/BB ratio. When he thrives at Double-A, maybe I’ll feel different, and his BABIP is really really low for a guy in Tennessee, but I think that Vitters is firmly the sixth-best prospect in that system now (behind Castro, Cashner, Lee, and the Jacksons B and J)
I like baseball.
I write for Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times Fantasy
by Satchel Price on Jun 30, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
6th is generous
I’d take all 5 of those guys over Vitters in a heartbeat, and I’d probably take Archer too.
Adoptive parent of Kyle Nicholson
I don't think I can take Archer over Vitters yet
For one, position player vs. pitcher, and secondly, Vitters’ upside wipes Archer’s out of the water.
What makes you prefer Archer to Chris Carpenter at this point?
I like baseball.
I write for Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times Fantasy
by Satchel Price on Jul 1, 2010 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Rafael Dolis gets overlooked for some reason
Rafael Dolis is one of the most impressive guys I’ve seen in that league this year, including being the best overall arm (stuff, command, and polish) I saw at the league all-star game. He has to be ahead of Vitters as well.
i'm not huge on vitters
although i do have him as a b. to be fair to josh, he’s had a measure of bad luck this year and has shown some improvement with his discipline. still … an iffy proposition at best to make it up, and the defense is still … shaky.
One thing people forget about Vitters
He was 17 at the time the Cubs drafted him in 2007. As memory serves me, he was one of the youngest draft-eligible players in the country, if not the youngest. He’ll have spent most of this season as a 20 year old, which is really good as far as ARL is concerned with AA.
It’s really hard to write off someone that young at AA, imo.
by Outshined_One on Jun 30, 2010 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions
He's a day older than Matt Dominguez
I think Dominguez is a B/B+ prospect and like Dominguez more in every aspect except for pure hit tool. Thus, Vitters is a high B- for me.
Well, with Dominguez you gotta feel that he's a pretty high-probability guy
Because his bat doesn’t have to be that good if he’s got a +10 or better glove at third base.
Even if he’s only a .250/.320/.410 hitter in the bigs, that still makes him a pretty solid big leaguer for a while as long as his glove is plus. And there’s obviously room for him to be much better than that offensively, too.
I like baseball.
I write for Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times Fantasy
by Satchel Price on Jul 1, 2010 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Gibson and Turner stand out to me in the FSL. I think both are solid A- prospects. Then I like Moore, Jackson, and Flores as B+ types. I think all of the lists so far have had those five prospects in some order at the top of the list, which seems right to me. Depending on how much you trust the bats, I could see D’Arnaud and Sanchez challenging for low B+ status, but I would probably put both at a straight B.
I’d say there are another 5-8 B prospects and at least that many more B- guys. It’s a pretty nice league this year.
I don’t think I’m unusually high on any of the prospects in the FSL compared to the lists I’ve been seeing. I’d probably be inclined to rate Angel Morales closer to 15 than 20, which might be sanguine to a few, but I believe in the way he hits the ball when he makes contact.
I don’t think I’d rank Archer or Henderson Alvarez as high as I’m seeing on these lists. Archer is a low to mid B- for me, and Alvarez is a C+.
Casejud's 20
MAN am I late on this one. I got a bad stomach virus and was out of it for 2 weeks but I’ve really been enjoyig these things -doing my evaluations and reading the others. Here goes my FSL 20
1 Brett Jackson B+
2 Tony Sanchez B+
3 Manny Banuelos B+
4 Charles Furbush B+
5 Hector Noesi B+
6 Andrew Brackman B
7 Reese Havens B
8 Trevor May B
9 Matt Moore B
10 Bryan Morris B
11 Daniel Fields B
12 Angel Morales B
13 Dellin Betances B
14 Wilmer Flores B
15 Josh Vitters B
16 Travis d’Arnaud B
17 Nick Barnese B
18 Jeurys Familla B
19 Liam Hendriks B-
20 Phillipe Aumont B-
HM: Brad Holt, JC Ramirez, Cody Scarpetta, Wily Peralta, Brad Hand, Chris Archer, Bryan Villareal, Bobby Lanigan, Henderson Alvarez, Jesus Sanchez
MAN, there is a LOT of quality pitching in this league.
Hmm
Mised a few, I guess
I really like Turner, who I neglected to notice is in the league now. I’d give him a B+ as well and put him #1
Don’t like Kyle Gibson as much as most, though I could be wrong. B rating and 9th, below Trevor May.
Chad Jenkins is a #1 pick from 2009 who throws strikes but hasn’t dominated the Mid or Fsl as much as I’d like. Id put him as a B and probably like Betances better.
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