True or False: Tony Gwynn Jr
by John Sickels on Jun 23, 2010 3:00 PM EDT
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PrintTrue or False...if Tony Gwynn Jr. was named Tony Smith Jr, he would be stuck in Triple-A.
I ask this not as a criticism of Gwynn. He isn't a very good hitter, but his glove is outstanding and I think he deserves a roster spot. I ask it to bring up the issue of "major league bloodlines." Some teams put a heavy emphasis on this, which is understandable from both a genetic and sociological perspective. It is also simple human nature for a baseball person to pay closer attention to someone named "Gwynn" than "Smith."
So how much should "bloodlines" and baseball family background figure into a prospect's status? Is it something that should be considered outside of the regular "makeup" category as an extra positive?
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He certainly wouldn't be with the Padres.
"This is no ordinary honey!"
Bolts From The Blue - Heavy with the facts, slightly less heavy with the opinions.
by Zach (maestro876) on Jun 23, 2010 3:09 PM EDT reply actions
I meant to say he'd be in the minors
You tricked me John!
5 MORE YEARS OF FELIX!
Then it's even
I clicked Yes and meant to say he’d be in the majors still. Despite hitting .234, his OBP is still pretty much right at the MLB average.
BBs and D is good to have in a 4th OF.
I think.....
Bloodlines can get you drafted higher than expected, and give you the benefit of the doubt in terms of advancing through the minors, or given a second and third chance if you’re struggling.
However, I think once you get to the majors, it doesn’t matter what your name is. If you don’t perform, or bring something to the table, you’re gone.
I realize Gwynn is a name in San Diego, but noone there is paying to go to a ballgame for some 4th OF sitting on the bench.
2010 Tigers contracts coming off the books:
Maggs (18M)
Willis (12M)
Bonderman (12.5M)
Robertson (9.5M still being paid this year)
Inge (6.6M)
Damon (8M)
2011 is the year of the Tiger!
by sportznut3081 on Jun 23, 2010 3:27 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I think it helps
you stick around longer than you should in the bigs as well. Just ask Gary Matthews Jr.
I voted that he would be in the minors but...
Good defense, on base ability, and speed are valuable assets but i don’t know if he would be with the Pads,
I voted minors
on the flip side. if Kila Ka’aihue was named Kila Schmidt or Kila Brett he’d be playing every day for the Royals…
He's definitely an MLB caliber player
If he were stuck in the minors, I’d hope that a team would try to exploit that fact.
Look at Delino DeShields Jr
Probably a late 1st round pick this year, he gets taken in the top 10… I have to believe that bloodlines were a big part of that
PPPPPPUNTO 4 MVP 2010
I have to believe...
that it was the Astros. No other team would have taken him until the late first round at the earliest.
ETHAN MARTIN!!!!
Gwynn is absolutely an MLB player, for sure.
The guy has put up a 1.8 WAR in 60 games this season!
Even if his batting averages are generally underwhelming and his power is minimal, he’s a fantastic defender at a premium defensive position with solid on-base skills and above-average base-stealing ability.
There are guys playing center field everyday in the majors right now that are worse than Gwynn. Gwynn is a solid starter for a non-contending team or a very good bench piece on a particularly good team.
I like baseball.
I write for Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times Fantasy
All-star
"The A's have to be setting some record this year for simultaneously maximizing team quality and player anonymity. I guess that’s sort of their thing though." - Luke in MN
Gwynn
To me is the definition of a 4th OF on a major league team. Valuable enough to roster, not good enough not to try to replace. He may have gotten a shot because of the name, but he has earned his place on a ML roster. See also Billy Ripken. He was never gonna be more then a utility/reserve MI, but thats got value.
Gwynn could be a starter on probably most teams.
You guys win. You can keep your little marked-out piece of internet territory. Spend your days communicating via keyboard with people too ugly for the real world and too nerdy for anyone to care, anyway. Your piece of land is here. Do the rest of civilization a favor and stay within its limits. You bore me. Have fun with your nightly sobs and screams into your pillow over your inability to attract a good mate, Radiohead. ~The Hooligan
by Daniel Berlyn on Jun 23, 2010 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know... there are a lot of CF playing well right now
You would probably take him over Rajai Davis, but he’s lost his job now that Coco Crisp is healthy.
He could probably start for Atlanta, Milwaukee, Washington (Morgan has really sucked this year), Texas, Cincinnati and Kansas City, in my opinion. Most teams have superior options, unless you buy that Gwynn is like a +20 or +25 glove in center, which isn’t particularly likely.
I like baseball.
I write for Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times Fantasy
by Satchel Price on Jun 23, 2010 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd definitely still take Stubbs
He hasn’t taken the step forward I hoped for, but there’s no reason to think the poor defensive numbers are anything but a small sample size. He’s been praised for years about his defense, put up great TZR numbers and put up excellent UZR numbers last year in a small sample size.
stubbs
I’d much rather have stubbs….Gywnn just seems “light in the loafers.”
by Rupert Pupkin on Jun 24, 2010 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Let's be clear
When he’s not starting in center field, he’s sitting in deference to guys with wOBAs of .321 and .318…
He has been an unmitigated disaster against right-handed pitching this year. And while it’s a step down from his career numbers, even his minor league track record against a group which represents about 70% of major league pitching was mediocre at best.
As he is performing this year – even with the recent hot streak – he is not a starting outfielder on any team with aspirations of winning regularly.
by realitypolice on Jun 24, 2010 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Reverse nepotism
Could also be a thing.
Like, since he is named Gwynn, we expect him to be something he’s not, but if he was named Smith then we’d take him for what he was and appreciate the positives he brings to the table more, not just how his dad was a great hitter and how he doesn’t hit like his dad.
That’s not necessarily a factor, but it could definitely be part of the psychology. It’s also tough to be a player when everyone believes you didn’t earn your position through all the work that you did and that you were just handed it because you had a good name.
as a Padre fan
Gwynn is okay. Plays good defense, knows how to take a walk. Zero power, not a great contact hitter. his speed doesn’t really translate to stealing bases.
I think he would be struggling to hold on to a roster spot if his name were different.
While Gwynn being a valuable major leaguer should be relatively unchallenged
the real question is whether he would have been given the chance to be a major leaguer, or been drafted as high, or generally be talked about at all. In that regard, I think clearly the name has a significant factor, despite the the fact that I really feel it shouldn’t.
+1
As far as being a fourth/fifth outfielder goes, Gwynn’s fine enough. But the question John asked was whether he WOULD be in the big leagues, not if he SHOULD be.
And in this particular case, the answer is clearly no. The Brewers had pretty much given up on him last year. If his name was Tony Smith, I think the chances that the Padres would have made a one-for-one swap of Jody Gerut for him are pretty small, and Mr. Smith would have spent all of last summer enjoying the neighborhood around the country music hall of fame.
by realitypolice on Jun 24, 2010 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions
On the more general portion of John's question...
“Should “bloodlines” and baseball family background figure into a prospect’s status?"
I was thinking about the fact that the Padres have four second-generation players on their roster right now (not including Adrian Gonzalez, whose dad played professionally in Mexico briefly). I’m inclined to think that especially on a young team like that, having young guys really comfortable with what day-to-day life in a big league clubhouse is like is probably pretty useful and can reduce the need for “veteran influence” players clogging up roster spots (Matt Stairs not withstanding). So, I’d vote that there is probably some value beyond normal “makeup” criteria.
Tony Smith
If Tony were Ozzie’s kid and had come up through the Padres system, I suspect he would have already been traded for an aging Jim Edmonds from the Cardinals a year or two back, and now Tony would be stealing bases, playing great defense, and bringing back the backflip!
he is just not coming around, as a big Tony Gywnn fan I really pull for him
every once in awhile he starts to look lik ehe will hit,then nothing
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