Ranking the Leagues: The Carolina League
by mrkupe on Jun 13, 2010 12:02 AM EDT
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Seeing as we're getting close to the midpoint of the season, it's not a bad idea to start reassessing players, and based on the popularity of cwhitman's regrade thread, it's obvious that we're all thinking about how players stack up. That being said, making a top prospects list is hard and it can take a while to double-check that you're not missing any names. So I decided, why not go through the process of creating community league top prospect lists? This way we're breaking things up into much easier-to-digest chunks. Obviously things will change - we have another half of the season to go, and some prospects will receive promotions and become eligible for various lists at later dates. That's not a problem, though, and it should actually make it easier to integrate prospects into the overall league rankings as they become eligible. Note that while a prospect may no longer be in the league, for this exercise we'll consider position players to be eligible if he A) has 100 or more ABs in the league or B) is currently in the league. Starting pitchers are eligible if they have A) 5 or more starts in the league or B) they are currently in the league. All relief pitchers are automatically eligible, no innings count. Rehab appearances obviously do not count. Let me know if this works for everybody.
To facilitate these rankings, I'm going to post a list of "notable" prospects from each team, in an effort to minimize the chances of anybody forgetting about a particular prospect. You may also wonder why I'm not starting with the Midwest or South Atlantic League . . .the reason is that those leagues are very large, and having that many teams to run through might make them a little difficult to start with. So the order will be: High A leagues, Double A leagues, Low A leagues, Triple A leagues. If I'm missing anybody in the notables list, let me know so I can add them. Your list need not be restricted to these players, they are purely here for the sake of reminding you that they are in this league. Also keep in mind: the omission of a player from the notables list does not mean that I hate said player or that I am unaware of his existence. Thomas Field, I salute you!
NOTE: There is no "minimum" number of prospects that you have to rank. If you want to rank 10, rank 10. If you want to rank a full 20, rank 20. No more than 20, but whatever you feel comfortable with otherwise . . .don't rank players if you don't feel comfortable.
Link to previous Ranking the Leagues:
Notable prospects for the Carolina League:
Frederick Keys:
L.J. Hoes, Xavier Avery, Bill Rowell, Richard Zagone, Ryan Berry
Kinston Indians:
Jason Kipnis, T.J. House, Alex White, Nick Hagadone, Kelvin De La Cruz, Joseph Gardner, Bryce Stowell
Lynchburg Hillcats:
Devin Mesoraco, Alex Buchholz, Neftali Soto, Cody Puckett
Myrtle Beach Pelicans:
Mycal Jones (recently promoted to the league), Randall Delgado, J.J. Hoover, Julio Teheran, Zeke Spruill
Potomac Nationals:
Michael Burgess, Derek Norris, A.J. Morris
Salem Red Sox:
Oscar Tejada, Will Middlebrooks, Ryan Lavarnway, Peter Hissey, Anthony Rizzo, Ryan Dent, Brock Huntzinger, Caleb Clay, Stolmy Pimental, Alex Wilson
Wilmington Blue Rocks:
Eric Hosmer, Adrian Ortiz, Tim Melville, John Lamb, Mike Montgomery
Winston-Salem Dash:
Jon Gilmore, Eduardo Escobar, Nevin Griffith
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Vizcaino made his debut
Quite the rotation for Myrtle.
yeah, my bad
I had heard Vizcaino had been promoted, forgot to include him. Since he is currently in the league, he IS eligible for this list.
I'll try this this
1-Mike Montgomery-LHP-KC
2-Julio Teheran-RHP-Atl
3-Arodyz Vizcaino-RHP-Atl
4-Eric Hosmer-1B-KC
5-John Lamb-LHP-KC
6-Randall Delgado-RHP-KC
7-Kelvin De La Cruz-LHP-Cle
8-Jason Kipnis-2B-Cle
9-Derek Norris-C-Was
10-Tim Melville-RHP-KC
11-Anthony Rizzo-1B-Bos
12-Joe Gardner-RHP-Cle
13-Alex Wilson-RHP-Bos
14-Eduardo Escobar-SS-CWS
15-Will Middlebrooks-3B-Bos
16-Stolmy Pimentel-RHP-Bos
17-TJ House-LHP-Cle
18-Ryan Lavarnway-C-Bos
19-Nick Hagadone-LHP-Cle
20-Oscar Tejada-SS-Bos
Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster
Not to be a dick, but
Montgomery only had 4 starts before getting promoted. Your criteria was 5 starts or in the league currently. FWIW, I think he’s the best prospect of the guys listed.
good point
The eligibility requirements are the diciest part for me . . .frankly I think everybody just wants to rank prospects. The eligibility requirements are basically to ensure that we don’t have cases where a guy is promoted for one start and then demoted or some such. I chose 5 starts because I thought that would be close enough to one month in the league for it to work.
I’ll revise the eligibility to account for this. Consider Montgomery eligible. And in the future, if there are any questions about a particular player’s eligibility, let me know. Thanks.
I like this league
I’m not sure if all of these players meet the eligibility requirement or not though:
1. Julio Teheran B+/A-
2. Mike Montgomery B+/A-
3. Arodys Vizcaino B+
4. John Lamb B+
5. Randall Delgado B+
6. Derek Norris B/B+
7. Alex White B
8. Jason Kipnis B
9. Tim Melville B
10. Stolmy Pimentel B
11. Devin Mesoraco B
12. Will Middlebrooks B
13. Joe Gardner B
14. Eric Hosmer B
15. Oscar Tejeda B-/B
16. TJ House B-
17. Alex Wilson B-
18. Anthony Rizzo B-
19. Kelvin De La Cruz B-
20. Nick Hagadone B-
21. JJ Hoover B-/C+
I'll have to try and put a list together
later today or tomorrow, but at first glance I like this list a lot. I know the hardest part for me will be Montgomery vs. Teheran for #1, I may just go with two #1’s.
http://bullpenbanter.com
Same here
I really like the Hosmer and White grades. I probably would have Lamb behind Norris though, its just nitpicking. Also, I love Middlebrooks (own him in fantasy) but I think the sample sample in April might have pushed him too high here. Great list though.
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Thanks
Yeah, I could see moving Middlebrooks down some. It my (fairly) quick take on the league just looking at the list mrkupe provided.
Ok, I'll take a shot at this one
1a. Julio Teheran A-
1b Mike Montgomery A-
3. Randall Delgado B+/A-
4. Arodys Vizcaino B+
5. John Lamb B+
6. Derek Norris B+
7. Eric Hosmer B
8. Alex White B
9. Tim Melville B
10. Nick Hagadone B
11. TJ House B
12. Kelvin De La Cruz B
13. Joe Gardner B
14. Stolmy Pimentel B
15. Anthony Rizzo B
16. Jason Kipnis B-/B
17. Alex Wilson B-
18. Devin Mesoraco B-
19. Oscar Tejeda C+/B-
20. JJ Hoover C+/B-
It’s really a flip of the coin for me with Teheran and Montgomery at the top. Both are excellent.
I’m trying to temper my enthusiasm for Delgado a bit because I do own him in a couple of fantasy leagues but he has excellent stuff and has improved the command. I want to see him in AA before committing to an A-, but that’s really all it will take to cement that grade for me.
Vizcaino isn’t far back from the other arms here, I just have him a bit behind them. There are 29 teams out there that would love to have this kid and where he’d likely be their #1 or #2 prospect, he’s just in a system that is this good.
Lamb is a guy I was very high on coming into the year, and he’s done nothing but produce. K rate over 9, K/BB rate over 3, good GO/AO ratio…plenty to like here.
Norris was a B+ for me coming into the year and he’s upped his walk rate and cut down his K rate a bit. The power hasn’t shown up too much yet, but he missed time to injury. The power is there though, no doubt.
Hosmer was the first tough grade for me. If he was showing much power at all he’d be a B+ without question. I mentioned in the regrade thread that I’m not sure if he becomes Justin Morneau or Daric Barton, both are possible. I think the power will come with him, but having been burned in the past with Barton and Kotchman, I’m not going to blindly assume it absolutely will. The strong doubles total is somewhat reassuring though.
This is a pitching heavy league, no doubt. From 8-14, I think you could order them most any way you wanted depending on what you’re looking for. I put White ahead of the other because I think he has the highest floor of the bunch with a good ceiling. Melville is next for me, the K/BB ratio is improving since his first couple of starts and the K rate itself is strong. Hagadone was old for the league but lost time to injury so I can’t hold that against him too much. He has B+ potential but B- results, gives him a B grade. Health is the key for him.
House needs to trim the walk rate down but the K rate is solid and so is the GO/AO ratio. De La Cruz looks like he could have used more time in this league the way he’s struggled in AA, though I still believe he has good stuff and will be fine in the long run. Gardner has very good results but I worry he’s an advanced arm beating up on younger opposition. I want to see him at AA before going any higher with him. Pimentel is a guy I really like as well, I think there is potential for more as he matures but I love the polish.
Rizzo I like, maybe a bit more than I should. He may not be a masher but should be able to be league average or better at 1B.
I might be being too rough on Kipnis as he’s learning a new position but the K rate is higher than I expected for a polished college hitter.
Wilson looks solid but is a bit like Gardner for me, not sure how much of the results are stuff/talent and how much are polish.
HS catchers develop slowly but I need more than 150 odd AB’s of production to go too high with Mesoraco.
Tejeda has plenty of power it appears but the plate discipline is horrible, that needs to be corrected if he’s going to be more than a low average/OBP slugger.
Hoover has solid results but his K rate and groundball numbers are down, and his walk rate is up a bit from last year. We’ll see how he does as he moves up the ladder.
http://bullpenbanter.com
Oscar Tejeda is way too low
Ball sounded amazing off the bat, he would be a top 10 guy for me
Casejud's list
1 Julio Teheran A
2 Darek Norris B+
3 Mike Montgomery B+
4 Randall Delgado B+
5 Devin Mesoraco B+
6 Eric Hosmer B+
7 Alex White B+
8 Arodys Vizcaino B
9 John Lamb B
10 Oscar Tejada B
11 Joe Gardner B
12 Tim Melville B
13 Stolmy Pimental B
14 Will Middlebrooks B-
15 Ryan Lavarnway B-
16 Nick Hagadone B-
17 Anthony Rizzo B-
18 TJ House B-
19 LJ Hoes C+
20 Micheal Burgess C+
One of the fun things about doing a list like this is discovering a guiy like Joe gardner. I had never heard of him but the numbers and the vidoe of him on youtube is impressive.
Gardner
Probably has the best shot to be this year’s Dan Hudson (not that there is a Dan Hudson every year), going from semi-obscure college pick in low-A to AAA or the majors in a single year. He doesn’t have ace upside, but man that groundball rate is sick, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see him burn some worms in AA soon.
Mesoraco
After thinking about Mesoraco further I think Id give him a “B”, and probably move him down to around 13th. Its quite a drop but, I only have a couple video clips and his record to base his ranking on – I belive in the bat but, Im concerned about his defense and guys who break out in High A at age 22 dont usually turn out to be stars.
update
Just as a heads-up, I WILL be posting my own list within a few hours. The next thread will probably be posted sometime early tomorrow, as I’m headed to San Antonio for a few days to watch SA and Midland play and want to have the thread up before then.
Cool
Cant wait to see you take. Have fun Man. Ay idea who you will see pitch when you are down there? Anybody interesting?
By the way, just a request, Im kinda getting into looking at these players in each league and I was wondering if you could let me know which league you plan to do next so I can get a headstart on it. The more time I have to look at it, the better my rankings will be – or more thoghtfully done anyways. Not a big deal really, jut thought of it last night. I could pick QNY leaguye really but I like doing them as they come.
stuff
Second things first. I posted the order of levels above . . .we’re covering High A, then Double A. So the next league will be the Florida State League. Haven’t decided on which AA league to tackle first.
As to the games . . .not sure. I’m missing Simon Castro and Wynn Pelzer unfortunately. As a result it’s not really a stellar crop. I was thinking about heading out a bit further, but frankly San Antonio is the closest Texas League team to where I live and it’s a much easier trip than it is to one of the other parks. I’m planning on being around for the Thursday/Friday/Saturday slew of games, and projecting rotations that many days in advance is not easy.
Zeke Spruill
Don’t know much about him, but looking at his numbers he seems to be a command guy with GB tendencies. Generally I like that, is his stuff underwhelming? if so, how underwhelming? Looking at the ratios alone he seems like a good piece (B- type of guy) but that is without a scouting report.
okay, heres my Carolina League Top 20
Much better crop than last time around . . .nobody on the list gets lower than a B-.
1. Julio Teheran, RHP, Grade A
2. Mike Montgomery, LHP, Grade A-
3. Randall Delgado, RHP, Grade A-
4. Arodys Vizcaino, RHP, Grade B+
5. John Lamb, LHP, Grade B+
6. Oscar Tejeda, SS, Grade B
7. Eric Hosmer, 1B, Grade B
8. Alex White, RHP, Grade B
9. Brad Boxberger, RHP, Grade B
10. Derek Norris, C, Grade B
11. Stolmy Pimental, RHP, Grade B
12. Jason Kipnis, 2B, Grade B
13. Nick Hagadone, LHP, Grade B
14. Eduardo Escobar, SS, Grade B-
15. Anthony Rizzo, 1B, Grade B-
16. Devin Mesoraco, C, Grade B-
17. Xavier Avery, OF, Grade B-
18. T.J. House, LHP, Grade B-
19. Joseph Gardner, RHP, Grade B-
20. Kelvin De La Cruz, LHP, Grade B-
Boxberger
He would have been a B (#10) on my list as well. I guess that’s what happens when I just go by those listed.
Sorry
That list isn’t meant to be exhaustive, but I do try to cover the major players. Boxberger was an accidental omission, and one I didn’t realize until I was putting together my own list.
by mrkupe on Jun 18, 2010 2:39 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
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