Either/Or: Buster Posey vs. Carlos Santana
by John Sickels on May 16, 2010 9:00 AM EDT
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PrintThis is a question where either option is excellent, but if you could have either Buster Posey or Carlos Santana, who would you pick?
I had Posey one spot ahead of Santana on my most recent Rotowire Top 100 list, but I'm not sure that's right. Both are hitting the hell out of the ball this year, Santana at 1.011 OPS for Triple-A Columbus, Posey at .999 for Fresno. Note that the International League is a more difficult place to hit than the PCL, so Santana's season is a bit more impressive.. On the other hand, Posey is doing a better job defensively, throwing out 48% so far this year. Santana has caught 21%. Posey has just one passed ball and no errors; Santana has two PBs and two errors.
Santana is a year older than Posey, and for that reason I ranked Posey one notch ahead. Was that the right call? What do you guys think? I think that Santana's bat is slightly better than Posey's, but Posey is a bit ahead on defense and age projection. They are very, very close obviously.
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Santana
I can see him being a VIctor Martinez or Brian McCann-type hitter at the next level. I don’t know if Posey will do that.
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Posey
I do think Santana’s bat will be more valuable, but he has also had more time to develop it than Posey has, and Buster’s got the tools to be an all-star at the plate regardless. It’s the defense that’s the difference. Posey projects as a much better catcher in my eyes, and that’s going to make him the more valuable all-around player.
i agree with this. i don't think their defense is particularly close. posey is significantly better.
Defensively,
I don’t believe Posey is really that great of a defensive catcher. He has the tools to be a good defensive catcher, but there are still several nuances that he needs work on. The reason the Giants are looking to bring him up for the super-utility role is so that he can learn at the MLB level from a very good MLB catcher in Molina.
Having played catcher until my junior year of college, and having studied several catchers in the past, I just don’t believe that Posey will be in the same class as Mauer, the Molinas, and any other top defensive catcher. Mind you, I don’t believe that he’s going to be Tyler Flowers or Mike Piazza behind the plate, but he certainly won’t be a Charles Johnson or Joe Mauer.
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More time to develop?
If we’re talking about bats, then yes I agree. But you have to keep in mind that Santana is a converted 3B, so it is logical to see his D behind Posey’s D. If anything, Posey has had more time to develop behind the plate than Santana has.
?
Posey has been catching longer than Santana has.
If the end of the 2006 season, when Santana started catching, came after the 2007 college baseball season, when Posey started catching...
then you’re right.
Posey wasn't a C in HS?
This really is a question – I have no idea.
no. he was a SS and pitcher. he started as a SS as a Freshman at FSU.
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by nostocksjustbonds on May 17, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Honestly, I'm not sure about that.
But I’d be really surprised if he was a catcher in high school and they moved him to SS his freshman year in college.
Carlos
I was Posey… but SSS or not, this year I am on Team Carlos… he just keeps raking. I strongly believe that his power will translate to MLB. I think he’s going to be a beast, actually.
Santana
I just don’t see Posey having that much power at the next level.
And its not like Carlos is being moved from behind the plate any time soon.
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Because
I have eyes that can read stats, and scouting reports.
Its pretty simple bit of using the sensory organs located on the front of you face, that aren’t your nose or tongue.
Albert Pujols is a god, and you my friend should be doing no less than graveling at his feet.
Don't see it
He doesn’t have the bat for 3B and playing good defense there is far from guaranteed. His value is locked in his current position, and right now he’s struggling to receive big league heat. I see a solid player, but Santana has thunder in his bat. Posey’s bat isn’t even close.
by ToddyBaseball on May 16, 2010 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions
How bad do you think his bat is?
I have reservations about him hitting for a ton of power, but he should be a very good hitter. He played SS at Florida State before being converted to a catcher in his Sophomore year. I definitely think he could be good there defensively.
And I agree that Santana is superior.
That .542 minor league SLG sure makes Posey look like a bitch, huh?
Or is it the .424 OBP you have reservations about? We’ve already gone over why the Giants are saying he isn’t ready for the big leagues. It’s about saving money.
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by Daniel Berlyn on May 16, 2010 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Because the Giants are stupid
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Certainly possible
Their reluctance to use him when they were in a race for the Wild Card does show that they have concerns about his receiving. It certainly wasn’t Bengie’s .285 OBP that was keeping him out of the lineup.
No, it wasn’t Bengie’s .285 OBP. The Giants management doesn’t care about OBP, as they’ve consistently shown the past few years. However, it was Bengie’s veteran presence, 20 HR and 80 RBI that kept Buster out of the lineup in September last year.
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If you are going to comment, at least know what you are talking about
The Giants LOVE Posey at catcher. They just love him as a hitter even more. So on the days he’s getting rest at catcher, they want to keep his bat in the lineup at 1B. If he catches 130 games a year, then his bat is out 32 games, so being able to play at 1B would get his bat into most games, say 150+. That would work well in a platoon with a lefty 1B who don’t hit well against LHP, like Ishikawa.
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by obsessivegiantscompulsive on May 17, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Sabean
When Sabean badmouths Posey’s catching ability, that’s a pretty big red flag.
by ToddyBaseball on May 18, 2010 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions
or perhaps he’s just blowing a bunch of smoke. it mostly about saving money and not making Posey a super-2 (but Sabean can’t come out and say that directly). Also, the team’s catchers are doing alright at the moment and sabean probably doesn’t want to upset the hypersensitive Bengie Molina.
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by nostocksjustbonds on May 18, 2010 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Calling Buster up would be historically fast
In a somewhat half-hearted effort to see how fast catchers make the majors, the shortest minor league stint I could find was Matt Wieters. After that, it was Ivan Rodriguez at something like 180 games caught.
I always wonder why that doesn’t come up more. Posey converted to a catcher and people want to rush him up faster than just about anybody else ever?
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by achiappanza on May 25, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Posey is...
Jorge Posada 2.0 with a better glove.
Posey
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by bestbostonsports on May 16, 2010 10:51 PM EDT reply actions
Whiteside
The problem is that AAA baseball just isn’t very good. Anybody who can pitch is in the big leagues. Really, these guys are facing 4-A pitching.
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by antinous on May 17, 2010 1:57 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Don't forget that all the good pitching prospects are at AA
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posey pitched in college as well, dialing it up to 95 at times, if i recall correctly. this accounts for his ability to gun down base stealers. he switched to catching pretty late, and this is reflected by his receiving and game calling, which is what he is supposedly working on. given his history and that’s just all around good ballplayer (remember that game when he played every position?) i think he’ll improve defensively.
as for hitting, i’m no hitting coach, so i’ll abstain from commenting.
Music
How long before Carlos Santana becomes the “famous” Carlos Santana and relegates the musician to his understudy?
I can’t hear the name withoutthinking of the musician :)
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Name game
Yeah, I’d like to see a poll on “Who will finish with more jokes/references about his name? Carlos Santana or Evan Longoria?”
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by achiappanza on May 25, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Santana
Both are excellent prospects, but I’d rather have Santana on my team.
Santana’s advantage with the bat will outweigh any advantage Posey has with his D. That’s not to say I don’t like Posey’s bat, but I am also still not convinced that Posey will ever flash the kind of power that Santana will.
from a guy who pitched to posey
As I look at Posey’s swing, I’m confident it will play in the big leagues. I don’t think fans should expect Fresno-type of numbers there, as yes, the pitching is better in the big leagues and the two parks are DRAMATICALLY different. But you can expect a lot of doubles in the gaps and a more than respectable batting average from him during the first couple of years.
As for his defense, his blocking is fine and his arm is very good. The release is quick, the strength is there, and the accuracy is solid. (Hopefully he avoids the Saltalamacchia yips.) He will do fine in the running game.
His glove and the “ability to call the game” are the two traditional knocks on him. Having thrown to him, I can say that his hands are great. He’s only been catching a couple of years, and so the experience with catching pitches with movement still needs to come, but the hands are there. They will continue to develop.
I thought he called the game adequately. He’s a smart guy, and there is a solid thought process to his game-calling. Of course, this improves with experience as well. Just don’t expect him to be Bengie Molina upon arrival.
http://minorleaguelife.blogspot.com/2010/05/pragmatic-posey-post-hopefully.html
I like him even more now
Just don’t expect him to be Bengie Molina upon arrival
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How About For 2010?
Santana should get more playing time.
I’m thinking he slides right into the starting role and hits well right from the start.
"Well played Mauer"
Posey
Of course I’m biased though.
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