Best Player You've Ever Seen
by mikel1218 on Mar 9, 2010 11:01 AM EST
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So I've had this conversation with a number of my friends, and seeing as how baseball excitement is nearing its peak (culminating with the oh so heavenly Opening Day), I thought this would be a time to ask this question to the very knowledgable baseball crowd that posts on this site.
DISCLAIMER: THIS IS NOT A MINOR LEAGUE QUESTION
Who is the greatest player you have ever seen?
I'm 22 years old so I haven't seen many of the great players of the 70s and 80s, yet alone the Golden Era of baseball. For me, the best is Ken Griffey Jr. Not only was he the cleanest of the "Steroid era," during the 90s, he was the complete player (10 all star games, 10 gold gloves, and 7 silver sluggers). I've seen video of Mays and Aaron and others, but I've seen Griffey play (both on TV and in person).
So, who's the best player you've ever seen? Pitchers or hitters or both
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He was head and shoulders above other pitchers at his peak. I never saw him live until he was with the Mets, so well past his peak. I saw his last game with the Mets and even though he gave up 5 runs to the Cubs and was throwing 85-88 I think, he still K’d 9 in 6 innings.
+1
Best I’ve seen: Pedro is the correct answer. He was simply untouchable in the late 90s. The Cleveland ALDS game out of the pen throwing 6 no-hit innings, the Pedro-Clemens showdown in spring 2000… too many games to pick from, I think it was really easy to take for granted what we were watching before he got hurt the first time. And he was still pretty damn good for most of this past decade as well.
Best I’ve played against: granted, I played at a real small/crappy cold-weather HS, so the level of competition was pretty mediocre, but Matt Small almost no-hit our HS team (I managed to get real lucky on a soft liner down the RF line to break it up instead of being the guy to make the last out). He was a 14th round draft-and-follow for the Braves back when those still existed in ’06 and appears to have at least a modest chance of reaching the bigs given his K rates: http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=small-001mat . The two times we faced him were virtually the only times we would ever see radar guns at our games, haha.
http://rswanzey.blogspot.com
His 1999 season
was probably the single-greatest season of any person from any sport that I have ever seen.
+1 to that
I remember owning him that season in my mixed league, basically knowing I would get an 8 inning, 1 ER, 4 hit, 1 BB, 10 K outing out of him basically every 5th day. It was ridiculous.
Griffey
A-Rod in their prime, or Fred Lynn in 1979 (led league in batting, oba, slugging, OPS+, gold glove cf, 2nd best Total Zone rating in center that year-he was awesome). Johhny Bench in his prime was far and away the best catcher, hitting and fielding.
I saw Mays play but he was no longer in his prime. Aaron was more of just a slugger by the early ’70s. Clemente was still pretty good when I got to watch him play.
As hitters,
Bonds and Frank Thomas appeared to be the most invincible at their peaks.
For overall domination, I’d have to go w/ prime Pedro.
A-Rod?
Frank Thomas and Jeff Bagwell definitely deserve mention in this. They’re two of the top… what? 8? 1B of all time.
www.bullpenbanter.com
Bagwell??
I bet there are 10 1st basemen I can list that are/were better. Not too mention the roid stuff. Hell, Rafey was better.
Definetely Bagwell
Bagwell: .297/.408/.540
Palmiero: .288/.371/.515
Bagwell had 5 season where he had an OPS over 1.000 including one over 1.200, where Palmiero only got above 1.000 in one season. Bagwell’s peak years are far more impressive than Raffy’s.
Bagwell is sneaky good...
Honestly, I may not be able to name 10 better. But, Bagwell was during ‘my prime’ as a baseball guy and I never really considered him an elite player. I guess he was, and I just didn’t realize it. Given the roid factor, he is certainly not an inner circle hall of famer though.
Just looked back at my New Bill James Historical Abstract
By career win shares he had Bagwell 4th all time. That was through the 2000 season and Bagwell played 5 more years, batting: .279/.386/.514 over that time.
He’s an inner circle hall of famer and one of the best of all time by any measure. His career line is .297/.408/.540 and he was an excellent defender and baserunner (in fact he stole 202 bases in his career).
I understated the case above. Absolute inner circle Hall of Famer. I would actually have him the third best 1B of all time behind Gehrig and Foxx.
www.bullpenbanter.com
I'd put Pujols ahead of Bagwell by this point
For whatever it’s worth, Pujols will pass Bagwell in Rally’s career WAR calculation this season and he has a much better wRC+. I do agree with your general point though that Bagwell was an elite all time 1B.
Pedro
Is the correct answer. Also the answer to “Player Most Likely to be a Demi-God.”
+762
The best hitter of baseballs ever to have lived. #2 is Pujols, #3 is A-rod, #4 is Randy Johnson in his prime, and #5 is Griffey, but all of them are a long, long way away from Barry Bonds.
Bonds was the best hitter of baseballs who ever lived?
His career OPS+ is lower than Ted Williams and Babe Ruth. Of course, I never saw Ruth play. :) Ruth was pre-intergration, but there were only 16 teams, so that is a bit of a wash. he also had a career era plus of 122. Bonds peak years were a little better. of course, his peak years came a little late in life. And nevertheless, his career ops+ is 181, Williams 191 (and he lost prime years to 2 wars, that’s war as in armed state conflicts, not wins above replacement, and he was still dominant well after integration but prior to substantial expansion).
Williams and Ruth don’t compare as fileders to Bonds of course. Ruth’s pitching likely cancels that out.
At his peak, no one was more dangerous at the plate than he was.
Getting one good pitch to hit per game, and still hitting 40+ homers.
I remember Bonds' first season with the Giants in '93
I went to a few games that year and was floored by how good he was. He was so clearly the best player in the league, the best I had seen.
Many years later he slowed down, stopped being a great fielder and a great base-runner, but was an even more devastating force because of how dominant a hitter he became.
Best I ever saw, in two different stages. (And I am an A’s fan and don’t really like the Giants)
I'm going with guys I have seen play alot so its West Virginia High School baseball for me
there was a guy who graduated four yeas before I did, he played with my brother so thats how I got to see alot of him, who could have been a Division I Short Stop and had a chance to play pro ball. He hit the ball hard it didn’t matter where it went it was hit hard, he could run, had a great glove and a very good arm. Unfortionatly he drank away his chance. Then there was a guy who actually pitched in the majors that was from my home town of Ravenswood, WVPaul Fletcher
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"Its a Great Day to be a Mountaineer where ever you may be" Tony Caridi
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
The best player I have actually seen live is probably Ken Griffey
His swing was just effortless and I saw him hit a rocket that hit off the top of the back bullpen wall at Kauffman Stadium. Unbelieveable. He then made an amazing catch at the wall.
The best I have seen on TV is probably Pedro. When he was at his best, he was just unhittable.
The best I ever played against was Nick Case, who hit a 350 foot rocket off me. I think he went on to play at Missouri State.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Re:
Best players I have seen (live) play are Griffey (in his prime), and Bonds (oddly enough he was sort of in-between primes — saw him in 1999. I’ve also been lucky enough to see Pujols, A-Rod, and most of the other current stars — but, to me, they aren’t quite what those two were.
As far as pitchers go, I have seen Randy Johnson and Roger Clemens live — and both were completely dominant when I saw them. However, I wasn’t fortunate enough to see Maddux, Pedro, and many other of the great pitchers of this era. Makes you realize how much tougher it is to catch one of the great SP than the great everyday players…
nice living near a stadium
I usually go to Angels games based on the pitching matchup, have seen a lot of the better AL pitchers. . here’s a few. . . img src=
<img src=
Also saw him pitch against USC’s Ian Kennedy back at USC back in the day. . .
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Barry Bonds.
Maddux, Griffey and Pedro are probably next.
Bonds then Pedro
The only two players that were totally mesmerizing during their peaks. Randy Johnson in Arizona was very impressive as well, but a notch below those 2.
Rickey Henderson best position player.
Pedro best pitcher.
"Macha hates you"- Tacoma fans heckling Kielty
Notwithstanding
HGH, steroids or other performance-enhancing substances, my favorite pitcher was Roger Clemens*. Pedro is a very close 2nd – the best changeup the game has seen in a long time. I also admired the craftiness of a Greg Maddux. Finally, even though he’s no match for the guys aforementioned on many levels, I have to say that I nearly made in my pants when I witnessed Rob Dibble’s fastball live for the first time.
For position players, nothing beats the sweetness of Ken Griffey’s swing during his glory days in Seattle. According to me, there shouldn’t even be a vote to admit Griffey to the HoF; it’s that kind of a no-brainer. Since I’ve never actually seen Griffey play, I have to go with Barry Bonds*.
Barry
I live in Seattle and I’ve never seen anybody as good as Ken Griffey Jr – watching him from 89-99 must be pretty damn cose to what it was like to watch Willy Mays play.
That said, Barry Bonds was a better player than anybody of course. One of his many mistakes was becoming TOO good. Even in his last season he was still amazing.
Whats amazing too me is that in 1997 the Mariners had RJ, A-Rod, and Griffey. 3 of the best players ever and while they won 90 games, they weren’t a great team. baseball is truly a team game in the sense that you need more than 3, 5, even 8-9 good ballplayers to win.
Nolan Ryan
Living in the Washington area, I was on a camping trip about an hour outside of Pittsburgh in the late 80’s. I saw Ryan was going to be pitching that night, and I thought this would be my last chance to ever see my hero pitch. So I went. (He pitched a good, not great, game and got the win.) Little did I realize that a year or two later he’d go to the Rangers and I would see him four more times in Baltimore. Ironically, the best game I ever saw him pitch was a 1-0 loss to the Orioles and Jose Mesa.
The wind is in the buffalo.
I got to see Ryan pitch against the Angels in 1989.
He threw 8 innings, and struck out 12, but the Rangers still managed to lose the game.
2 best players I've seen live
never seen Pedro in person, so I give you guys benefit of the doubt, of course. but for me:
1. Pujols. Hate the Cards, but for me there isn’t much of a contest as to the best hitter I’ve seen
2. Dawson. The best all-around position player I’ve seen. A truly phenomenal athlete who could do anything on the field.
I have bad luck at games. . .
Pedro got rocked by the Angels, I think Vladdy had like ten RBi that day. . .Lincecum got knocked around by the Dodgers last year. I see a lot more AL games in Anaheim, and Cal League games than I see NL games.
Best I’ve seen: Griffey, Bonds, Pedro, Rocket,
I seen a few of the Cal/CArolina legue AS games, Andruw Jones was in it years ago, the teams were loaded, it was awesome, I was on the field too. . .
Best college player seen live: Lincecum, Longoria, Garrett Cole
Best High school. ..well, a lot
Best played against: Mussina, Bobby Jones, Dmitri YOung, Donovan Osborne (a beast in college), Phil Nevin, Kotsay. . .
Best I’ve hit off of: had a few hits in a HS playoff game against John Cummings
Oh that's fun.
Best college player I’ve seen live: Anthony Rendon
Best prospect I’ve watched in the minors: Felix Hernandez
I had a hit in little league
off John Cummings, but a different guy: he later started at QB for the Pitt Panthers. But it seemed like he threw 90 at 12 years old.
One other thing
I live in Minnesota, and for those who don’t get to see Joe Mauer hit a baseball on a regular basis… you should
OP
how do you know griffey was the cleanest of the steroid error? i did a search and couldn’t find anything about that
hes the cleanest in the sense that hes arguably the most accomplished hitter in the era to not have a whiff of steroid use in concurrance with his career… im not sure how steroids affect injuries, but if you look at his injury plagued years and the fact that he had so many (I believe some take steroids to get healthy faster), this might also help Griffey’s case
?
i’m not sure that we can conclude that a lack of evidence indicates that he was clean. i hope he was
by son.of.sourman on Mar 9, 2010 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
fair enough
and it is tough in this era to think that anyone is clean, but he’s the one guy that I would be absolutely CRUSHED to find out used steroids
Agree. I think I would be truly disheartened if Griffey was on something. Him and Frank Thomas were the best at what they did when i was a kid and I just can’t believe either of them were ever on anything. You could tell me maddux was juicing and I’d believe it before griffey.
griffey
griffey was juicing when he robbed lou collins of a HR in Little Big League!!!!!
by son.of.sourman on Mar 10, 2010 1:00 AM EST up reply actions
It's like there's a party in his mouth
And everyone’s invited.
what happened to innocent until proven guilty?
For in depth fantasy analysis be sure to visit the Hawk Fantasy Sports site @ www.HawkBall.com
This isn't a court
I guess it is the court of public opinion.
in a perfect world
it would be that way in baseball, but we’ve been deceived too many times to be trusting for this era IMO
Ichiro..
I still think he’s the most all around skilled player in the game right now….and watching him take BP is ridiculous.
Other then Ichiro… I’ve been lucky enough to see Griffey a few times and Randy Johnson among others. Living near Chicago…I got to watch me a lot of Frank Thomas, Andre Dawson…and of course Greg Maddux (awesome to watch control a game).
I’m mentioning Bo Jackson…just for the pure athleticism and the fact I was at his return game in Chicago. Not the best player, but a joy to watch.
Context
It depends how you look at a player… are you looking at peak or overall performance? Obviously, Pedro’s peak was greater than Clemens, Unit, or Maddux, but all of them had better overall careers than Pedro, who just didn’t pitch enough to compete with those guys career-wise.
As far as hitters, obviously Bonds, Griffey, Pujols, A-Rod, and Frank Thomas stand out to me career-wise, but McGwire may have been the most fun player to watch at his apex.
Clemente/Stargell
I’ll just go with the home town team since it is what I remember most fondly. I am old. I saw the Pirates Hall of Famers from the 60s/70s/80s.
Clemente and Maz as a kid. Stargell as a kid and young adult. I also saw Bonds in the early 90’s with the Pirates. He doesn’t stand out for me as much watching him live because I was older and more jaded I guess. Plus his leaving via free agency probably tarnished those memories a bit for me as an “old timer”.
bonds and pedro for me
bonds as the best position player for me, though i hate him. i’d probably put a-rod as 2nd, due to his all-around abilities when he played short. griffey would probably be third.
best pitcher to me was pedro. he had 4 pitches that were in the debate for best respective pitch of that type when he was in his prime. his changeup is one of the best pitches of all time. randy is a close second, as his slider is the best pitch of all time in my opinion. not a bad fastball, either.
my player evaluations don’t take into account PEDs, as we only know who has been found out and can’t say with certainty for anyone else.
Barry Lamar Bonds
Steroids or not, jackass or not, what this man could do at the plate was simply astounding.
"Chicks dig the long ball, although fat chicks will settle for warning track power" - Nick Diamond
Petey
I’d say Pedro, but if I was more aware earlier in my life, I might say Greg Maddux. I look at the numbers of their best seasons on occasion and I just can’t believe how ridiculous their numbers were in this era.
I've seen a lot of good ones
And I’d have to say the best in person was Pedro Martinez Roger Clemens Manny Ramirez Curt Schilling. Yes, Curt Schilling for sure.
The best of all time had to be Babe Ruth Ted Williams.
Pitcher was Prior in 03
If you would have told me that his career would be pretty much over tight now I would have called you a liar… He just did everything so easy. The hammer was great the FB had great life.
As far as hitters go Bonds during his big head days was amazing. Watching batting practice at Wrigley i have seen some mammoth blasts and Bonds was second only to Adam Dunn…
4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42
I have to second this...
Took a trip to Wrigley to watch a Cards-Cubs series with my friend and we got to see Prior then. Best pitcher I’ve seen live without a doubt.
Let's see
I’ve seen…
Ken Griffey, Jr. – Reds
Chipper Jones – Braves
Barry Larkin – Reds
Barry Bonds – Pirates
Albert Pujols – Cardinals
Miguel Cabrera – Marlins
Larry Walker – Rockies
Mariano Rivera – Yankees
Gregg Maddux – Braves
Alfonso Soriano – Yankees
Jeff Bagwell – Astros
Craig Biggio – Astros
Randy Johnson – Giants
Derek Jeter – Yankees
I think that is probably all of the HOFs I’ve seen but I didn’t see them all in their primes. I did see Griffey during his early years with the Reds so I guess I’ll choose him.
As a Cardinals fan this is pretty easy for me....
Albert Pujols.
I have to admit seeing Griffey hit his 500th HR at Busch was pretty neat, and watching McGwire nail 62 live was a great moment as well, but in terms of best player overall it’s certainly no contest.
an impossible question
i’ve seen pretty much every NL player great player over the past 20 years going to lots of cubs games. i’ve seen less going to the sox games. deciding the actual best…well, almost everyone listed here could have a claim (having suffered for 3 ouf of an impossible 8 years with soriano, i’m gong to exclude him, especially)
the most amazing player i ever saw live was bo jackson. his ridiculous combination of speed and power…i just remember thinking each of the three pre-injury times i saw him play that he was going to lay claim to the best player ever. he’ll not qualify as the best ever, but barry is probably the only other player i’ve seen who could do what he did.
http://www.simdynasty.com/index.jsp?refer=mychiefs58
Pete Rose
Saw him play at Wrigley a few times with both the Reds and Phils. Charlie Hustle never disappointed.
I once saw
a High School kid throw a no hitter and strike out 18. . .wait, that was yesterday ;) (scott frazier)
Two Stick Out
Randy Johnson – Mid 90’s – Saw him warm up in the Bullpen, just scary good
Pujols on many a trip to Wrigley, seen him just stick it.
Pedro Martinez – 99 All Star Game – Absolutley Dusgusting
"And we'll see you tomoorrow night!" Jack Buck
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