Elijah Dukes Released!
From Rotoworld:
| According to the Nationals' official Twitter feed, the club has released outfielder Elijah Dukes. No reason was given. Dukes hit a disappointing .250/.337/.393 over 416 at-bats in 2009, but he's just 25 years old and was expected to serve as the Nationals' starting right fielder this season. On top of that, he was only going to require a $444,000 salary in 2010. It's not clear who will start in right field. |
Does anyone else find this very odd? With Dukes history it is a distinct possibility that he has once again run afoul with either the law or team management. It is a shame that such a talented player is unable to get it together. Hopefully his career isn't 'dead dawg'.
I have a few questions for the community:
1. Do you think Dukes will ever reach his potential and turn his life around?
2. If you were in charge of a MLB team would you sign Dukes? If so, would you be worried about how he would impact your community.
3. Were you a Dukes supporter or did you always feel that his behavioral issues would hold him back?
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After latest incident, credit Nats for making the right decision. They told him zero tolerance and followed their word.
Interesting
I have a hard time believing that they would release Dukes for ‘purely baseball related’ issues. Then again, you never know with the "Natinals’.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Mar 17, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Stunk? Yes. But it's still only ST.
JR Towles is currently hitting for .500+ and Albert Pujols for .200 with .502 of OPS. You can’t base a roster analysis on a couple of weeks of ST action. Not for someone that was inked to be the starting RF on your club 14 days ago.
To me, ST is nothing more than live batting practice, taken seriously by some, not so by others. Pitchers are getting there act together, throwing a lot more fastballs than usual to stretch their arms into game condition.
While his numbers were mediocre at best on the board during ST, I can’t see why a team would release a 25-year old kid with upside, pegged as their starting RF in their offseason plans, currently paid just barely above league-minimum wage ($444k or something like that) that still had an option year on his file and could have been outrighted to AAA for baseball-related reasons.
Clearly, there’s more than meets the eye here.
+1
That is my thinking.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Mar 17, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Out of the top 10
Gotta move Pujols down in my rankings, then. Should Towles go into my top 10 catchers, too?
The wind is in the buffalo.
I actually like Towles this year
He is a sneaky post-hype sleeper guy. He is definitely not top 10, but in a deeper or NL-only league he is worth a shot as your second catcher.
He's stunk most of his pro career.
I still don’t understand why people were so high on him around here going into last season.
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he was good in 2006 in AAA
and he was good in 2008 in the majors.
Not a huge fan, but he did have talent.
Nothing special
He’s a decent hitter. He’s not nearly good enough as a ballplayer to make me want to deal with his baggage.
2008 in the majors he got lucky with HRs (18.8 HR/FB). He struck out 28.6% of the time that year. This guy’s talent has long been overstated, IMO.
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twitter: @alskor
the baggage
is a different story. Devcent hitter, some power, nice walk rate.
You can succeed with that k rate, and while HR to FB was a bit lucky, is that as constant for hitters as pitchers (I know batters have some effect on babip, more so than pitchers)? Plus he was in His UZR in 2008 may also have been a bit flukey.
He had the potential to be good enough not to warrant releasing absent some serious baggage. Not great. I am not going to lose sleep over this wondering what might have been.
"Lucky with HR"
power has always been one of Dukes’ best tools. To say that HR/F rate was ‘lucky’ is a lazy shot that can only be taken in hindsight.
Yeah, I didn't say that the way I should've...
of course you can use hindsight to evaluate. I don’t think the hindsight in this case is that the power wasn’t real, I think it’s that Dukes 2009/10 have been a train wreck, and that doesn’t actually tell us anything about his power.
Dukes put up a 15% HR/F in his first 220 major league PAs, and a 18.8% his second year (334 PAs). If you’re trying to say his 6.8% in 2009 is more representative, I think it’s more likely you’re just taking a shot at a guy whose had a rough year; and it’s a lazy shot at that, because it’s pretty difficult to make a reasonable argument for.
Guess we're going to have to disagree on this one.
That’s a pretty high rate. Top 20 or so in the majors most years. I dont think Dukes was capable on maintaining that rate every year.
Bullpen Banter
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twitter: @alskor
1. Do you think Dukes will ever reach his potential and turn his life around?
Probably not. Being 20-years old and reckless is one thing, being 25 or 26-years old and still without any self-control is a completely different story.
2. If you were in charge of a MLB team would you sign Dukes? If so, would you be worried about how he would impact your community.
Yes, I would take a flier on him. He’s just too talented to pass up, but I would lock him in the clubhouse after each game and practise. Perhaps you could assign someone he really trusts to keep an eye on him.
3. Were you a Dukes supporter or did you always feel that his behavioral issues would hold him back?
Always been a fan. I also knew there was a strong possibly if his career playing out like it has, but my god … there haven’t been a whole lot of players with his potential.
As a Pirate fan
I wouldn’t hesitate to sign him and play him everyday. I think he’s a much better bet to succeed than someone like Lastings Milledge.
When was the last time that he's gotten in trouble?
I couldn’t care less about attitude. So long as he stays out of trouble, there is no problem.
some would view attitude as trouble.
but, to answer what is probably your question, it’s been a couple years since he was arrested for drugs or attacked an umpire or had a paternity suit filed against him or slapped his wife around.
"Operation Shutdown" whole-heartedly agrees with this sentiment.
by slacker george on Mar 17, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't see how that applies
Derek Bell was a terrible baseball player at that point in his career and was pissed off that he wasn’t handed a job. I guess if Elijah Dukes no longer wishes to play baseball the situations are analogous.
Who Knows?
I’d rather not take the chance, especially given Duke’s history and the unknown circumstances of his surprising release.
by slacker george on Mar 17, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree, but you have to weigh the potential that he doesn’t stay out of trouble into your evaluation of his chance to succeed. Maybe he’s turned his life/behavior around, but I wouldn’t bet on his potential/attitude over Milledge’s.
I don’t like Lastings Milledge much as a baseball player. He may be able to hit for a decent average, but he doesn’t walk and I don’t believe in his power or speed. He’s a marginal starter. I think Dukes has the chance to be an above average outfielder and I’d much rather bet on him.
And it’s not like Lastings hasn’t had his attitude called into question before.
If not for your last sentence, I would have let this alone. But it really upsets me when people compare Milledge to Dukes. That type of comparison makes me think that you’re not seriously contemplating the sorts of behavioral issues that Dukes brings to the table. It’s totally fair to think that Dukes is and will be the better ball-player, all else being equal. But all else is most certainly not equal.
I didn't say they were equals
I said that Lastings has had his attitude questioned. Dukes has had run-ins with the law and assuredly has a worse history than Milledge, but he’s seemingly cleaned up his act quite while in Washington. The history will follow Dukes, I know that, but unless something new comes out, I don’t think it’s much of an issue at this point.
I’d gamble on the talent.
1. Do you think Dukes will ever reach his potential and turn his life around?
Doubtful. He had great potential coming up, but these roadbumps just prevent him from fleshing out his game. I still think he could be useful, but he’ll never reach his potential.
2. If you were in charge of a MLB team would you sign Dukes? If so, would you be worried about how he would impact your community.
I’d definitely take a flier on him. I haven’t heard anything from him, in terms of poor image, for a year or so now. I think he’s more valuable than many.
3. Were you a Dukes supporter or did you always feel that his behavioral issues would hold him back?
I’ve always been a supporter, always been rooting for him. I always thought the only thing holding him back was himself. Once he joined the Nats, I thought he’d break through, and he almost did. Who knows how being injured the last year or so affected his outlook?
Poster formerly known as artie
+1 to that
He is what is, like John says in his book he’ll draw walks, hit with power, steal some bases while hitting for a low average and striking out a bunch. I’m curious to see what his numbers would be for a full year and hopefully this is that chance.
http://bullpenbanter.com
I'd be calling his agent
He’s still young and has a world of talent, he hasn’t even had 2500 ABs as a pro yet, too many times guys get written off because they aren’t established in their early 20’s, some guys just don’t put it together till later, and I would take my chance that Dukes could easily be one of those type of guys. it wouldn’t surprise me to see him put up a pretty big age 27 year if he can establish himself a role with someone this season heading into the next.
Off the field problems aren’t what you look for in a player but lets be honest there are a lot of athletes who aren’t the best citizens. teams that throw out the ‘off the field issues’ as an excuse are in a majority of cases are full of BS, if the guy was tearing it up they wouldn’t release him. When guys are problems but produce they stick around, if they are problems and they don’t produce they’re gone that’s just the way it goes.
by GoldenSpikes24 on Mar 17, 2010 11:41 AM EDT reply actions
not sure they're full of BS.
off field issues are detrimental. if you’re a good player, you offset those detriments with positives. if you aren’t, you don’t.
yeah, dukes is talented. he’s also injury-prone, a potential/real off-field problem and a corner outfielder with a career OPS of .770 who has been below replacement level in 2 of his 3 mlb seasons.
I don’t think you can fault his performance. That was affected by off the field issues and injuries, which are legit concerns, but when you look at his minor league track record as well as his 08 season, you can see how good he can be when on the field.
he's got 2 crappy seasons and 1 good season.
of course you can fault his performance. you’re talking potential.
LOL
That is like saying having full blown AIDS is just a little more drastic then the sniffles. Dukes level of crazy is like the difference between the Major League Baseball and the Dominican Summer League.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Mar 17, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
When I first read the title
of your post starting this thread, I thought to myself, oh, I must have missed that he was in jail.
My theory
Was Dukes out of options? What if the following was about to happen?
Nats go crazy and decide to start Norris at 1st base. That pushes Dunn to LF and Willingham to RF and Morgan is already entrenched at CF. Harris is the primary backup outfielder. Maybe it was just a numbers game?
You sure about that?
I believe the Rays had to use an option on him the year he was suspended out of Durham.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
options used in 2007 and 2009.
i don’t think he was on the 40 man in 2006, which is when i think you’re referring.
I think he was added to the 40-man when he was suspended
Durham refused to carry him on their roster after the choking incident.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
no. he wasn't. i'm sure they found some place to stash him, probably an inactive list or something. 2002 draftee would have been added after 2006 season.
easy enough to look up.
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/washington-nationals_01.html
though for how long he’s still on that…
Not sure why I didn't think to look there
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
1. Do you think Dukes will ever reach his potential and turn his life around?
You mean how Chris Henry turned his life around?
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Mar 17, 2010 1:57 PM EDT reply actions
fools gold
in a league that barry bonds, jermaine dye, frank thomas and gary sheffield can’t find a job. there is no room for a headcase like dukes. no, i would not take a flier. terrell owens produces and teams don’t want a guy like that. this is professional base ball, not sandlot baseball. not a guy you want in the clubhouse and around young players. productive or not.
Cost & Pos
Dukes would cost a tenth maybe even a thirtieth of what those guys would be seeking, and, he can actually play in the field.
And what do Bonds, Dye, Thomas, Sheffield, and Dukes have in common?
Owens too, for that matter.
Pretty "lazy" to imply three 40 year old DHs don't have jobs because of race.
If that’s not what you were implying feel free to correct me now.
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Don't forget
2 of those guys have TERRIBLE attitudes and the other is slower then Benji Molina. Dye was offered a contract this off season but didn’t like the dollar amount.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Mar 17, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I was implying that the media tends to label those types as "bad seeds"
You can speculate all you want as to the reason why.
The media loves Thomas
Thomas was heralded for his actions during the Steroid era. The reason the media labels Bonds, Sheffield and Dukes “bad seeds” is because they are “bad seeds”.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Mar 17, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
and that jermaine dye. gosh, he's just a cancer.
in fairness, the media used to beat up on “the big sulk”. how the times change.
Jermaine Dye bashing...
To be honest I am not aware of this. Besides, it isn’t like he has ever been mentioned in the same level as Bonds, Sheff, and Dukes. Guys like Clemens, and Randy Johnson got more bad ink then Dye.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Mar 17, 2010 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
He's referring to Frank Thomas.
The media in Chicago were always ripping on Thomas’ character and effort. Dye’s really the only one on that list I haven’t seen ripped by the media, and it wouldn’t surprise me if he’s gotten the same treatment.
actually
i was trying to imply that if proven productive players can’t find a job in this tough market because of their minor attitude problems. that a total, spun out head case like dukes should not be surprised that he is jobless.
Those guys are no longer productive
They do not have jobs because of their talent level, not their attitude.
LOL
Talent wasn’t the reason that Bonds lost his job.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Mar 18, 2010 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll give you that
But he was also limited to DH by that point in his career and the feds were going after him for perjury. I think the charges are bullshit and I’m happy for him that they’ve been put off indefinitely, but those were legitimate concerns. Teams didn’t ignore his talent because they didn’t like his personality. I’d have signed Bonds in 2008 if I were GM of an AL team in need of a DH.
For what it's worth, the Chicago media hated Thomas for 15 years.
Most of it was just them being pissed off that Thomas didn’t cater to them.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Mar 19, 2010 3:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Thomas
To fair it wasn’t just the media. He was also hated by his GM and manager, both of whom are not white.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Mar 19, 2010 8:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Jim Bowden implied in a tweet (later deleted) that Dukes had violated the Nats' zero tolerance policy for his actions.
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Yeah, sure. What would Jim Bowden know about the situation anyway?
Oh wait, he was GM there a year ago.
Bullpen Banter
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He probably assumed the reason for the release
then retracted it when the official statement said it wasn’t related to off-field issues.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Deniability
“What, dude, I never said that!”
by Lunkwill Fook on Mar 17, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd like the Giants to take a flier on him
We can sign him to a MiWIST deal (hopefully) and stash him in Fresno until one of our geriatric OF’s breaks down. His offensive upside is pretty tempting on a team that desperately needs offense
Adopted Giant: Mike Krukow.
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Kevin Frandsen: The best SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
Baseball Reasons - hahaha
They agree to a contract with him 4 days ago and then release him now? And he didn’t play yesterday even though they had a split squad?
I believe he played exactly 2 games after the two agreed to a contract. Then he isn’t playing when it’s a split squad. Then released.
Yeah, that spells baseball decision. lol
I respect the Nats for portraying this as a baseball decision
but it sure looks like he did something.
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I would agree, but ...
I’m tired of all this righteous anger bs coming from managers and gm’s. We have all these flat denials from Washington about Dukes, from the Howard/Pujols stuff, we had it on the Halladay trade, etc.
There is a difference between protecting players (by not answering or using confidentiality) and lying and attacking others credibility.
Ode to Dukes
The outlook wasn’t brilliant for the Nationals nine that day;
The score stood four to two, with but one inning more to play,
And then when Cooney died at first, and Barrows did the same,
A pall-like silence fell upon the patrons of the game.
A straggling few got up to go in deep despair. The rest
Clung to that hope which springs eternal in the human breast;
They thought, “If only Elijah could but get a whack at that —
We’d put up even money now, with Elijah at the bat.”
But Flynn preceded Elijah, as did also Jimmy Blake,
And the former was a hoodoo, while the latter was a cake;
So upon that stricken multitude grim melancholy sat;
For there seemed but little chance of Elijah getting to the bat.
But Flynn let drive a single, to the wonderment of all,
And Blake, the much despised, tore the cover off the ball;
And when the dust had lifted, and men saw what had occurred,
There was Jimmy safe at second and Flynn a-hugging third.
Then from five thousand throats and more there rose a lusty yell;
It rumbled through the valley, it rattled in the dell;
It pounded on the mountain and recoiled upon the flat,
For Elijah, mighty Elijah, was advancing to the bat.
There was ease in Elijah’s manner as he stepped into his place;
There was pride in Elijah’s bearing and a smile lit Elijah’s face.
And when, responding to the cheers, he lightly doffed his hat,
No stranger in the crowd could doubt ’twas Elijah at the bat.
Ten thousand eyes were on him as he rubbed his hands with dirt.
Five thousand tongues applauded when he wiped them on his shirt.
Then while the writhing pitcher ground the ball into his hip,
Defiance flashed in Elijah’s eye, a sneer curled Elijah’s lip.
And now the leather-covered sphere came hurtling through the air,
And Elijah stood a-watching it in haughty grandeur there.
Close by the sturdy batsman the ball unheeded sped —
“That ain’t my style,” said Elijah, “Strike one!” the umpire said.
From the benches, black with people, there went up a muffled roar,
Like the beating of the storm-waves on a stern and distant shore;
“Kill him! Kill the umpire!” shouted some one on the stand;
And it’s likely they’d have killed him had not Casey raised his hand.
With a smile of Christian charity great Elijah’s visage shone;
He stilled the rising tumult; he bade the game go on;
He signaled to the pitcher, and once more the dun sphere flew;
But Elijah still ignored it, and the umpire said “Strike two!”
“Fraud!” cried the maddened thousands, and echo answered “Fraud!”
But one scornful look from Elijah and the audience was awed.
They saw his face grow stern and cold, they saw his muscles strain,
And they knew that Elijah wouldn’t let that ball go by again.
The sneer has fled from Elijah’s lip, the teeth are clenched in hate;
He pounds with cruel violence his bat upon the plate.
And now the pitcher holds the ball, and now he lets it go,
And now the air is shattered by the force of Elijah’s blow.
Oh, somewhere in this favored land the sun is shining bright,
The band is playing somewhere, and somewhere hearts are light,
And somewhere men are laughing, and little children shout;
But there is no joy in Washington — mighty Elijah has been kicked out.
Courtesy of Mr. Howard Berger
http://boards.espn.go.com/boards/mb/mb?sport=fanboard&id=flb&tid=6565804
"The best things in life aren't things; they're feelings"
-Anonymous
Nats fan here
1. Do you think Dukes will ever reach his potential and turn his life around?
I think he pretty much did turn his life around while in Washington. No real run-ins with the law and the like. I guess the release is quite a blow and he’ll have to get through it, but I think the past two years are a decent indication that he can turn his life around 100%.
Reaching his potential? That’s a different story. He looked godawful last year and it continued in ST this year.
2. If you were in charge of a MLB team would you sign Dukes? If so, would you be worried about how he would impact your community.
Depends on my level of desperation. It’s only worthwhile for a rebuilding club. Don’t expect him to do anything but absolutely lampoon your outfield defense if you’re a GM.
If there’s a team with a “player’s manager” in the rebuilding phase looking for a good low-risk acquisition, there are definitely worse moves aside from taking a flier on Dukes. It might behoove a team like the Padres to make an attempt.
3. Were you a Dukes supporter or did you always feel that his behavioral issues would hold him back?
I was a supporter/believer in Dukes after the 2008 season. In the second half of the season, he had one of the best half-seasons I’ve seen from a Nats player (only matched by names like Soriano, Dunn, Zimmerman). I thought he’d turn into a good ML player. Maybe not a star, but something very solid – kind of like what Jayson Werth has become.
I was totally disgusted by how much he regressed last year. Idk if it was injuries, lack of effort/focus, or some combination thereof, but man did he look lost. He went from 2006 Soriano to 2008 Wily Mo Pena. I was ready to kick him to the curb for Justin Maxwell. His offense was barely competent, and that was the BEST phase of his game.
I don’t think this is a total “baseball decision” either, but anyone acting like the Nats are neglecting the baseball side of it is just blowing smoke. The Nats are trying to get good defense behind their perpetually spooked pitching staff for once, and getting rid of Dukes is conducive to that. I started humming clown music in my head whenever a ball got hit out towards Dukes last year.

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