Not a Rookie: Drew Stubbs
Lots of people are wondering about Cincinnati outfielder Drew Stubbs.
Here is some background on Drew Stubbs I wrote back in September, 2008.
Drew Stubbs was drafted by the Cincinnati Reds in the first round in 2006, from the University of Texas. The eight-overall pick in the draft, Stubbs showed excellent tools and a power/speed combination in college, but he also showed a propensity to strike out. Some scouts worried that his long swing might not translate well against pro pitching, but his athleticism was too much for the Reds to pass up. He hit .252/.368/.400 with 19 steals in 56 games in the Pioneer League after signing, with 32 walks but 64 strikeouts in 210 at-bats. I gave him a Grade B- in the '07 book, writing that Stubbs had a high ceiling but "is a dangerous player to grade" since he could blow up just easily as he could develop.
Stubbs spent all of 2007 with Dayton in the Midwest League, hitting .270/.364/.421, with 23 steals, 69 walks, and 142 strikeouts in 497 at-bats. He drew raves for his excellent outfield defense, but scouts remained concerned about the bat, due to a long swing and problems against breaking pitches. His overall production wasn't terrific, +13 percent OPS, but the high strikeout rate was worrisome. I left him at Grade B- in the 2008 book, still wondering if he would make sufficient contact against better pitching.
The Reds sent Stubbs to Sarasota in the Florida State League to begin 2008. He hit .261/.366/.406 with 27 steals in 303 at-bats, with just five homers. He did draw 50 walks, with 82 strikeouts, and continued to impress observers with excellent glovework. His performance was similar to what he did in '07, with a +10 percent OPS. Promoted to Double-A Chattanooga, he hit .315/.400/.402 in 26 games, demonstrating good plate discipline but still not much home run power. He moved up to Triple-A Lousiville in August and hit .293/.354/.480, interestingly showing more power but weaker plate discipline with the worst walk rate of his career. The Double-and Triple-A sample sizes are small, of course. Overall on the year, he hit a combined .277/.371/.417 at three levels, with 33 steals, 67 walks, and 123 strikeouts in 470 at-bats. He hit just seven homers, but knocked 33 doubles.
I kept Stubbs as a Grade B- in the 2009 book, writing that "I'd like him to get another 100 games of Triple-A if at all possible, and if he gets rushed to the majors ahead of schedule, he could struggle. At worst he will be a strong fourth outfielder, but if the hitting is there he could be a fine regular center fielder with excellent defense, speed, and enough offense to stay in the lineup."
Stubbs got those 100 games in Triple-A, hitting .268/.353/.360 for Louisville, with 48 steals in 54 attempts. He drew 51 walks against 104 strikeouts in 411 at-bats, but hit just three homers. Scouting repots clearly indicated that he was shortening his swing to concentrate on contact. But after being promoted to the majors for the stretch run, Stubbs suddenly showed more pop, hitting .267/.323/.439 for the Reds, including eight homers. His BB/K was 15/49 in 180 at-bats, which is about what you'd expect given his Triple-A numbers. He swiped 10 bags in 14 attempts. UZR loved his fielding at 7.6, (UZR/150 was 28.5), which dovetails perfectly with the scouting reports about a terrific glove.
Reds fans want to know: was Stubbs' power outburst in the majors for real? Given the perils of sample size, it's hard to say. His batting average, OBP, steals, and defense were exactly in line with expectation. He's quite strong physically and has shown sparks of power before, but my guess is that we'll see him regress somewhat in 2010, putting up something like a .260/.330/.400 line.
Some projection results:
Bill James Projection: .267/.336/.390, 11 homers in 544 at-bats
CHONE Projection: .251/.328/.380, 10 homers in 474 at-bats
Fangraphs Fan Proj: .264/.338/.386, 10 homers in 488 at-bats
Those all seem like reasonable extrapolations to me, considering the totality of Stubb's record. If he was still eligible for the prospect book, I'd still rate him as a Grade B- like last year at a minimum, and could get talked into a Grade B.
Although I'm expecting some power regression this year, in the medium and long runs he could get his SLG up around .450 in good seasons.
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Question
Why would you rate him a B-, and Alcides Escobar a B+. I think both will be top five or higher defenders at their positions, but I think Stubbs has a much better chance of being a productive offensive player. Is there really that much difference between SS and CF? I don’t think so, but would like to hear your and others’ opinion.
I'd go B+ as well
I know the UZR numbers are pretty insignificant considering the sample, but TZR also loved him and he has the scouting reports to back it up. He’ll be very valuable no matter how well he hits. I believe in the power as well.
Chris Young...
…of the D’Backs is a good CF too. Is he valuablenomatter what he hit in 2009? Just asking. Personally I doubt that Stubbs will be valuable enough with the glove to carry his bat but maybe he is really great as a CF. I dont know for sure and no existing fielding metric will convince me either – poor man’s Frankie Gutierrez at best?
Chris Young has a career -14 UZR in CF
The two players are not comparable at all.
glitch in the system
UZR is fun to look at, but is there anyone that doesn’t take it with a grain of salt? As a season ticket holder for the dbacks, I can say this: If you tell me Young’s UZR was 7.6 last year I could see it. He was terrible at the plate and it obviously carried over the the field. He was lost in all aspects of the game and you can tell he was taking his ABs out to CF with him. Now, on the other hand, you tell me Young’ s UZR was -8.9 in 2007 and he was one of the worst defensive CFers in the game I would tell you you’re crazy and the system sucks. I played the game, I coach the game, I know what my eyes tell me Young was a solid ave-above ave CF before this past season
I think once the sample size is big enough, it's a fine resource
Either way, Chris Young is not anywhere near the caliber of defender that Stubbs is. We have scouting reports that praise his defense and Total Zone numbers for the minors that are ridiculously good (I do take minor league TZR numbers with a grain of salt).
Ok
The “Ok” is really a “I think UZR is full of shit” but OK on the defense.
They really aren’t comparable offensively either or, maybwe thety are. Young has a FAR superior minor league record and he also started very well as a hitter before the NL figured him out. I think it’ll take them even less time to figure out Stubbs.
That is just NOT the minor league record of a major league starter, much less a star.
Yet the scouting disagrees with you
The scouting reports have always been more positive about him than the raw minor league numbers and here are a few quotes post-season:
Jeff (Pittsburgh): Is the power that Drew Stubbs showed in his brief MLB stint legitimate?
Kevin Goldstein: If not, it’s awfully damn close. I could see him doing 15-20 home runs annually, maybe even a bit more.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/chat/chat.php?chatId=685
Top 10 Talents 25 And Under (Born 4/1/84 or later)
1. Aroldis Chapman, LHP
2. Homer Bailey, RHP
3. Jay Bruce, OF
4. Drew Stubbs, CF
5. Johnny Cueto, RHP
6. Mike Leake, RHP
7. Todd Frazier, INF
8. Yonder Alonso, 1B
9. Travis Wood, LHP
10. Wladimir Balentien, OF[…]
Stubbs’ pro debut exceeded all expectations, yet little about it seemed like a fluke, with the nearly decade-long Mike Cameron comps seeming more apt than ever.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=9988
After hitting just three homers in 411 at-bats with Louisville, Stubbs went deep eight times in 180 with the Reds. The power surge didn’t surprise Sweet, who said Stubbs hit many balls at pitcher-friendly Louisville Slugger Field that easily would have cleared the fences in Cincinnati.
“He really became a consistent offensive and defensive player for us,” Sweet said. “He was prepared to go to the big leagues.”
Stubbs has above-average raw power, speed and arm strength. He became more disruptive on the basepaths by improving his reads and picking his spots to steal—he tied Michael Brantley for the IL lead with 46 swipes. He may not hit for a high average because he strikes out too much, but he does draw a fair amount of walks.
Sweet challenged him to play a shallow center field, and Stubbs covered a lot of ground in Louisville’s expansive center field. He had some trouble with plays up against the wall in Cincinnati’s cozier Great American Ball Park.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/online/prospects/rankings/league-top-20-prospects/2009/268981.html
J.J. Cooper: Scouts have always believed Stubbs had power, even if the stats didn’t always show it, so yeah that power surge wasn’t a fluke. A lot of it depends on what Stubbs wants to do. If he worries about strikeouts, he’ll still strike out a good bit, but he can be an on-base guy with plus speed, or if he’s willing to take some golden sombreros, he’ll put up good power numbers with a slightly longer swing.
So long as Drew Stubbs keeps his head above water (and I think he has the chance to do more than that), he will be very valuable
Agree to diagree..
on this one, I guess. We are talking about a guy who is 25 and has 1800+ abs in the minors with a .401 slugging pct. Ive seen this movie before.Those rookie numbers do not look like they are going to go up regardless of the “scouting”
I dont disagree that he has speed, raw power, and can go catch the ball but, hes going to have to HIT to hold a big-league job, much less be “very valuable”.
Goldstein is great but, he is no scout and has no special ability at recognizing ballplayers in my opinion. If he made that second list there I have zero problem saying Id take Cueto, Alonso, Leake, and Frazier (at least) over Stubbs.
Exactly who thinjks Drew Stubbs is more talented than Yonder Alonso? That is really weird to me- Alonso can hit and Drew cant- simple as that.
Stubbs can play a good cf
and Alonso can’t.
I can’t believe I wrote that.
stubbs
I can see Stubbs as a B, but the age difference between him and Escobar is enough for me to rank Escobar higher.

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