Grading out Edward Salcedo?
by highheat on Feb 23, 2010 3:22 PM EST
44 comments
It looks like Salcedo has agreed to a $1.6 million deal with Atlanta pending physical. He has been talked about over the last couple of years as a great talent, offensively and defensively. Obviously there is no minors sample size to work with, but I am curious how he would be graded had he been in this years book...B? Anyone have any solid info on the guy?
Thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks ,thanks ,thanks!
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salcedo
I gave Miguel Sano a C+ and I’d likely give Salcedo the same grade until we get at least some rookie ball data out of him.
Thanks John
From what little I have read, he has several + tools. Intersted to see how he adjusts and where he stands after his first season of pro ball.
Loved the book by the way. I was really impressed with the size of the writeups for each player. My first time ordering the book and not the last for sure.
thanks
Thanks for the kind words, and I’m glad you liked the book.
by John Sickels on Feb 23, 2010 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
Wow...pretty high praise
“This is a significant signing for us,” said Johnny Almaraz, the Braves’ Director of International Scouting and Operations. “We feel that Edward is one of this year’s most talented prospects. He has outstanding makeup and the combination of his fielding and hitting ability make him one of the top international players we’ve seen in a while.” Salcedo, 18, has been one of the Dominican Republic’s most highly-touted prospects in recent years. He should begin his professional career with Single-A Rome or Class A Advanced Myrtle Beach.
Just out of curiosity more than anything…
If part of a player’s makeup is personality, does a prospect lose makeup points for lying about their age? Obviously he is just trying to get his and land in the best situation possible but I’m curious how people view players lying about their ages from a makeup tool perspective. I know disciplinary/behavior problems are weighed into makeup and I know intelligence/baseball IQ sometimes gets mentioned as well.
How does John and how would this community define the makeup tool in terms of scouting players?
I may be wrong
But I got the impression from what little I have been able to read is that he was saying he was actually older than he really was, not younger. In 07 when he was about the sign with Clev. he was 15 and the rule in MLB is 16. I could be totally wrong..but thats how I read it.
I totally agree with you when a player represents himself as being younger since that adds to a players value….this case is different since he wasnt doing it to wrongly increase his value.
here's what I read
He’s been the focus of international scouts — and the subject of some controversy — for the past few years. Salcedo was expected to sign with Cleveland in 2007 for more than $2 million, but the deal fell apart because of questions about whether he was old enough (16) to sign with a major league organization. As it turned out, he was not.
Major League Baseball conducted an investigation at the Braves’ request, and determined recently that Salcedo is legimately 18 years old now.
I wasn’t aware of that but does that matter? He still lied about his age correct? I’ll agree it is a bit different than normal, with most prospects saying they are younger than they are, but I think the point still remains. Does lying about your age make anyone question someones makeup/character?
Its not just a bit different
Players that lie by saying they’re younger are looking to get more money than they are actually worth from the team signing them. Guys that lie about being older (Beltre is the first one that comes to mind) are lowering the amount of money they initially get in order to start making money sooner. In the first case the team is overpaying because of the lie, while in the second they are underpaying. One is malicious in its intent, while the other is not.
As for the effect it has on how their makeup is viewed, unless its an extreme case, I don’t blame the player. Generally its the buscones that are looking to get guys to do this in order to line their own pockets. Remember that these are kids we’re talking about and they are being manipulated by people much older and with a great deal of experience with the process.
So you don’t blame a player for their actions/strategy but the agents/representatives?
I’m not going to argue the intent is different behind each case but I think saying it is malicious to say you are younger than you are is too extreme. They are just trying to get paid as well and improve their situation.
My father lied about his age to start working at 14, I guess it is up to interpretation whether that was a moral thing to do. He obviously was only concerned about his situation but there are rules/laws against that to project the child and the employer.
Buscones aren't agents/representatives
The buscones are generally the ones who procure the new identities for the players. They are the ones that approach the players with the plan. This leaves the kids (remember this is generally happening a few years before the player signs, so they’re maybe 14 to 16) in a situation where they can either say no to an adult that has taken them under his wing and promised to help them turn pro and essentially give up on their dream or do what 99.9% of us would do in that situation and just deal with it. I’m sure some prospects are more willing to do it than others, but the fact of the matter is they are generally being pressured/manipulated into doing so by people far older and savvier then they are.
As for my use of the word malicious, you’re clearly looking at the wrong definition if you think its too extreme. Malice can simply refer to intent to cause harm without legal justification or excuse. A player lying about his age in order to obtain a larger signing bonus is attempting to cause monetary harm to the team that signs him without legal justification or excuse. A player lying about his age so he is allowed to sign isn’t doing so with the intent of harming the club, its just the only way the team is allowed to sign him. If anything he is harming himself financially by not trying to maximize his value once he’s old enough to sign.
Buscones may not be agents but they are representing the player until they do sign with a team/agent. I threw the agent in because moral decisions aren’t just made by 14 year old Latin American prospects, I wasn’t trying to suggest they were the same.
I suppose malicious fits, I just don’t necessarily think players are sitting around coming up with plans to screw MLB teams over.
Neither do I
Which is why I said in the first post that I don’t blame the players. Like I said, I place the blame on the buscones usually, and I certainly believe there are some of them out there that do sit around trying to come up with ways to screw MLB teams out of money. I never said the players were malicious for lying about their age, I said the act of lying about their age (which is generally the buscones idea) is malicious in terms of its intent.
Does anyone really know that he lied? He might not even know for sure, as an American it is obvious to know your age. It’s different elsewhere..
"Hey Fat Kid...the monster is right behind you! RUNNNN!!" -The Host
by bwellnjonesco on Feb 24, 2010 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think I’ve read a report definitively saying he lied but the articles surrounding the signing all seem to point in that direction.
Even if he did lie, I wouldn’t care too much considering I want my guys doing whatever they can to get into a position to bring success to the team.
"Hey Fat Kid...the monster is right behind you! RUNNNN!!" -The Host
by bwellnjonesco on Feb 24, 2010 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
Trust me.
"Hey Fat Kid...the monster is right behind you! RUNNNN!!" -The Host
by bwellnjonesco on Feb 24, 2010 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
Would care more if:
a) Your mom took steriods and grew a mustache
b) Your mom called Bud Selig and told him she was 35. We all know she’s not 35..
I’m not calling out your mom or anything, just wanted to use a girl as an example for the age thing..
"Hey Fat Kid...the monster is right behind you! RUNNNN!!" -The Host
by bwellnjonesco on Feb 24, 2010 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
Well perhaps I can see why you wouldn’t care? Haha You can see yourself out of the discussion any time, you clearly have nothing of value to add or at least have no intentions of doing so.
Oh damn man, I didn’t think you were so serious about this. I apologize.
I agree with you, a 16 year old lied…he’s obviously a trouble maker, he should be hanged..
"Hey Fat Kid...the monster is right behind you! RUNNNN!!" -The Host
by bwellnjonesco on Feb 24, 2010 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
He knows how old he is
But he may not know that he had to be 16 in order to sign a deal. He likely is relying upon his “buscon” to handle these types of details.
I don't think that is right.
He turned 16 less than a month into 2007 signing period, according to the DOB being claimed right now (and that accords with what I remember). The supposed signing with the Indians was waaaay after the opening of the signing period, so he would have easily been 16 by that point.
He didn’t sign because he had forged documents and thus there were major concerns over him being older than 16.
too simplistic
Makeup, with respect to baseball, isn’t about morality. It’s about a player’s ability to fulfill or exceed his projected potential through perseverance/mental fortitude/inner constitution/what-have-you. Chipper Jones broke his hand in a fight before he was drafted, which morally speaking isn’t good, but rather than ding him for bellicosity, the Braves took it as a sign of good makeup.
Lying about his age doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with whether you think he has the balls/gumption to succeed at baseball. It might if you think if shows signs of some kind of weakness, but I don’t particularly see that. Dude just wanted to get paid.
So you don’t think a player’s character/morality enters the makeup conversation? I could make all sorts of extreme comparisons but a player who gets caught taking steroids is just trying to get paid as well.
If a player has a moral flaw that might hinder his ability to live up to his baseball potential (like say, if he has a propensity for murder), then sure. Or if you think a player lacks the character to succeed.
I fail to see how lying about age to make a million more dollars has any bearing on whether or not he will do his best at baseball.
It doesn’t give any indication as to whether he will be successful at baseball but I think it could say something about their character. I’m just speaking in general, not this particular case. Does your opinion change if say Tabata is truly 26? A couple of the posters above spoke pretty strongly against players who report they are younger than they are.
So what characteristics do you think comprise the makeup tool?
- Work ethic
- Toughness (both mental and physical)
- Competitiveness
- Desire
- Team work
- Intelligence?
- Morality?
It doesn’t give any indication as to whether he will be successful at baseball but I think it could say something about their character.
If it has no effect on baseball, then who cares.
Does your opinion change if say Tabata is truly 26?
I don’t know what this has to do with anything. A players drive to sucdeed isn’t dependent on age.
So what characteristics do you think comprise the makeup tool?
- Work ethic
- Toughness (both mental and physical)
- Competitiveness
- Desire
- Team work
- Intelligence?
- Morality?
All of them, even morality to some extent (see: machete wielding psychos) You can also throw in leadership, scrappiness, etc.
Or to be more succinct: will to power.
I don't even understand why we are discussing "lying."
The whole point is that he passed the MLB age investigation, thus meaning we have no strong reason to think he’s lying.
I think he’s lying about about his shirt. Excuse meh!!! That is NOT a real Versace..
"Hey Fat Kid...the monster is right behind you! RUNNNN!!" -The Host
by bwellnjonesco on Feb 24, 2010 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
I’m just curious, seems nobody really cares about morality. Short of killing someone, you have basically said a player can do whatever the hell he wants and you would still want him if he is a good baseball player.
Short of killing someone, you have basically said a player can do whatever the hell he wants and you would still want him if he is a good baseball player.
Hm… that’s a pretty poor summary of what I’ve said. That’s not even really the subject we were discussing.
these kids grow up in poverty
they have larger families and more mouths to feed. cant blame them for lying about their age to get a contract to support themselves and their familes. baseball is their ticket out. most of us would do the same thing.
now back on subject
John, a C+? I think that’s VERY fair, honestly (and perhaps too generous at this point).
But my question is this:
What happens if Salcedo comes out in Rome and hits .325/.419/.540 while playing marvelous defense at 3B? Does he jump to A- range (and, more importantly, jump Freeman as the Braves’ top positional prospect (seeing that Heyward will be in Atlanta))? And if so, do the Braves move him up, this year, to the Beach?
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Feb 25, 2010 2:36 AM EST reply actions
I think that anyone who did that would jump to a pretty good ranking.
How he sits in comparison to Freeman would likely be about Freeman as much as Salcedo.
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