Minor League Ball: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: MLB Trade Deadline: Astros' fans react to Oswalt trade

Not a Rookie: Bud Norris

Not a Rookie: Bud Norris

Bud Norris was drafted by the Astros in the sixth round in 2006, out of Cal Poly.

Star-divide

His college performance was spotty: 4.55 ERA with a 61/57 K/BB in 111 innings with 118 hits allowed; the strikeout rate was quite low for a guy with good stuff (90-93 MPH, good breaking ball). His inability to dominate college hitters probably cost him a couple of rounds in the draft. However, he was more effective in pro ball, posting a 3.79 ERA with a 46/13 K/BB in 38 innings for Tri City in the New York-Penn League, allowing 28 hits. His K/IP was more than double what he posted in college. I gave him a Grade C+ in the 2007 book, writing that "I have a good intuitive feel about him, although of course that's impossible to quantify or explain in any way that doesn't make me sound like a lunatic. Not that THAT ever stopped me."

The Astros moved Norris up to Lexington in the Sally League in 2007, where he went just 2-8, 4.75 in 22 starts. He posted a 117/41 K/BB in 97 innings, with 85 hits allowed. Despite the ugly ERA and won-loss record, his K/IP and H/IP marks were very strong and pointed to plenty of upside. He needed to lower his walk rate, but the ERA wasn't a fair representation of how he pitched. His FIP was much better at 3.31. Scouts reported that his fastball improved to 92-96 MPH, and he made some progress refining his breaking ball and changeup. I increased his rating to a Grade B- in the 2008 book, noting that he was a breakout candidate, and "if he can sharpen his command even a little bit, he could dominate."

Promoted to Double-A Corpus Christi for 2008, Norris went 3-8, 4.05 in 19 starts, limited by elbow problems. He continued to post an impressive K/IP ratio with 84 whiffs, while walking 31 and giving up 89 hits. Scouting reports indicated slow but steady progress with fastball command and his hard breaking ball, but his changeup lagged behind and there were concerns that his mechanics stressed his elbow. He pitched in the Arizona Fall League as a reliever and was very successful, clocked as high as 98 MPH, and last winter it seemed there was a good chance he would end up in the bullpen permanently. I gave him another Grade B- in the '09 book, writing once again that if his command improved he could dominate.

Norris split '09 between Triple-A Round Rock and the majors. In Triple-A he went 4-9, 2.63 with a 112/53 K/BB in 120 innings, allowing 104 hits. . .the walks were still a little higher than ideal, but he continued to post strong K/IP and H/IP marks with a 3.41 FIP. In the majors, he went 6-3, 4.53 with a 54/25 K/BB in 56 innings, allowing 59 hits with a 4.77 FIP, not bad at all for a rookie.

According to fangraphs, Norris' fastball averaged 93.8 MPH in the majors, topping out at 98 MPH. He relied primarily on the fastball and slider, mixing in changeups just 6% of the time. Fangraphs rates his slider as his most effective pitch, which matches the scouting reports I had on him in the minors. He still needs to sharpen up his command, and improving the changeup and using it more often is a good idea. Again, this is all consistent with the minor league reports.

Norris threw 176 innings last year, the most he's ever thrown and more than double his '08 innings. I think the Astros need to monitor his workload carefully this year, especially when he gets past the 100 inning mark. Assuming he avoids further elbow problems, I think Norris will be a league-average pitcher in 2010, then take a larger step forward in 2011.

As an aside, yes, I know that won-loss record means nothing as far as analyzing a pitcher's future goes, but it's at least weird that his career record in the minors was a mere 12-25 (.324), given that his 3.68 ERA was solid and his FIPs were always strong. It looks like Norris was frequently snakebit by poor offensive and defensive support from his minor league teammates. Perhaps this will be something he can take forward, how to bounce back from something when the world breaks against you?

Overall I think he is something of a well-kept secret nationally, and one of the better young pitches who debuted in '09. If still eligible for rookie grading, I'd give him a strong Grade B.

0 recs  |  Comment 14 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

More from Minor League Ball

Sleeper Alert List for 2010

Feb 2010 by John Sickels - 20 comments

Prospect Retro: Joe Mauer

Feb 2010 by John Sickels - 16 comments

Not a Rookie: Julio Borbon

Feb 2010 by John Sickels - 64 comments

Jarrod Saltalamacchia Update

Feb 2010 by John Sickels - 42 comments

Not a Rookie: Dexter Fowler

Feb 2010 by John Sickels - 8 comments

Comments

Display:

John

I’m really glad you brought attention to this kid. I think he is very underrated because many pegged him to be a future reliever. However, I really believe that he has the stuff to be an above average starter in the majors.

What kind of ERA and WHIP do you think he can post in his peak seasons?

JOSH THOLE > carlos santana

by Dewey Finn on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST reply actions  

I see Norris as a likely RP because of control concerns and a lack of a third pitch. I see a WHIP between 1.40 and 1.50 if he remains a SP.

by WrenFGun on Feb 2, 2010 9:30 PM EST up reply actions  

He has a third pitch, and not a bad one—his power changeup. It has a decent 6-10MPH speed difference from his fastball. I don’t think he’s very confident in it yet, but that will change as it improves. Same goes for his control.

I think he’s a starting pitcher. Could be a Josh Johnson type as he matures. For comparison, look how Johnson started out:

2006: 7.62 K/9, 3.90 BB/9

His control hovered around those levels in the majors and minors until he finally put it all together in 2008. He also relies heavily on a good FB/SL combination, just like Norris.

by OremLK on Feb 3, 2010 1:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Norris

Not sure what you’re seeing when you watch him, John. But when I watch him, he reminds me so much of Jeremy Bonderman . . .same size, same sort of build, very similar repertoires and pitch selection. He does struggle with commanding the fastball just as Bonderman does as well, though, and unless/until he finds a happy medium, he’s probably doomed to the same erratic track record.

I do like him an awful lot, the fastball/slider combination is certainly impressive. And obviously if he matches Bonderman, that means some pretty decent years along the way. As a reliever, he’d be top notch.

by mrkupe on Feb 2, 2010 10:13 PM EST reply actions  

Workload Concerns

He pitched almost 100 ings more than previous season, any concerns with that?

by ribman on Feb 2, 2010 10:51 PM EST reply actions  

um yeah

Um yeah, I mentioned that right there in the article.

by John Sickels on Feb 2, 2010 11:06 PM EST up reply actions  

advertisement

Get rid of the teeth whitening ad. It’s a huge online scam with many people getting ripped off. I understand you need adverts to make money. But just one client clicks on it and gets scammed and it’s terrible for your business.

http://lasersurplusparts.com/blog/?p=87

Many other links if you need them.

by pedrophile on Feb 2, 2010 11:18 PM EST reply actions  

ads

I’m not responsible for the ads. That’s a network wide thing. But I will pass that along to the powers that be.

by John Sickels on Feb 3, 2010 6:52 AM EST up reply actions  

It’s true. There are thousands of legit affiliate programs, even ones that promote sports related items/services. Not sure why SBnation would mess around with silly ones like the teeth whitening stuff. I see it on Matchsticks and Gasoline all the time too.

by Subversive on Feb 3, 2010 11:04 AM EST up reply actions  

thanks

I should have realized that.

by pedrophile on Feb 3, 2010 10:46 AM EST reply actions  

Thanks John!

Great write-up, great to see the return of the Not a Rookies, I’m a big fan of this series as once a prospect passes and arbitrary threshold, the information avenues dry right up.

by drwmsu1 on Feb 3, 2010 11:46 AM EST reply actions  

Re: Josh Johnson/Bud Norris

I wanted to anchor this reply to OremLK’s comment – but my browser is having issues.

I think the Josh Johnson comp misses the mark. Johnson is a big tall guy with a lot of downward plan that induces ground balls. Bud Norris is 5’11"/6’ and will be a fly ball pitcher.

by fourthandeye on Feb 4, 2010 12:05 PM EST reply actions  

I know minor league groundball rates aren’t reliable, but MinorLeagueSplits says Norris had a career 47.4% GB rate in the minors (46.3% in AAA 2009). He likes to work in the bottom of the strike zone and has some movement on his fastball so it doesn’t seem implausible to me that he could have a good groundball rate in the big leagues.

by OremLK on Feb 6, 2010 12:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Minor League Ball: Where the Future of Baseball is Discussed
Start posting on Minor League Ball »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

Connect_with_facebook

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Small
Trade Rumors and Reaction3: The Final Countdown
Small
July 29th Gameday Thread: Oh Noes, Why'd they Pull Hellickson Edition.
Sdc10109_small
JUly 27th Minor League Thread
Sdc10109_small
July 26Th Minor League Thread
Dewey_finn_small
July 25th MiLB Action

Recent FanPosts

Dewey_finn_small
SP Keyvius Sampson (SD)
Dewey_finn_small
July 30th MiLB Action
Ryan_pic_small
Christian Colon or Casey Kelly
Small
Chris Johnson v Josh Bell
Small
Paul Goldschmidt
Adam_jones_small
Miguel Tejada to Padres for Wynn Pelzer
Small
Oswalt to the Phillies
Small
Dodgers pick up Pod person for prospects

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

SBNation.com Recent Stories

CHICAGO - JULY 26: Members of the Seattle Mariners watch the 9th inning as they lose to the Chicago White Sox at U.S. Cellular Field on July 26 2010 in Chicago Illinois. The White Sox defeated the Mariners 6-1. (Photo by Jonathan Daniel/Getty Images)

Five Numbers: Edwin Jackson's New Skill, The Race For Offensive Ineptitude & More

Houston Astros' Lance Berkman singles in the fourth inning of a baseball game against the San Diego Padres on Wednesday, July 1, 2009, in San Diego. (AP Photo/Lenny Ignelzi) +2 updates

Report: Lance Berkman Traded To Yankees On Day Before Trade Deadline

Arizona Diamondbacks pitcher Edwin Jackson delivers to the Tampa Bay Rays during the ninth inning of a baseball game Friday, June 25, 2010, in St. Petersburg, Fla. Jackson threw a no-hitter in the Diamondbacks 1-0 win. (AP Photo/Chris O'Meara) +1 updates

Diamondbacks Trade Edwin Jackson To White Sox For Daniel Hudson, David Holmberg

More from SBNation.com >


Managers

Bert_small John Sickels

Jeri_avatar_small mssickels

Authors

Small SethSpeaks

Favicon1_small ravensfan3

Moderators

Small mrkupe


Site Meter