Smackdown: Scott Elbert vs. Franklin Morales
Pitcher Smackdown: Scott Elbert vs. Franklin Morales
Per reader request, here is a comparison of Dodgers lefty Scott Elbert against Rockies lefty Franklin Morales. Elbert is still a rookie; Morales no longer is, but isn't exactly a fully established major league pitcher yet.
BACKGROUND and INTANGIBLES
Elbert: Scott Elbert was drafted by the Dodgers in the first round in 2004, out of high school in Seneca, Missouri, where he was a star running back as well as a pitcher. Quickly establishing himself as a premium prospect, he reached Double-A in 2006, just his second full pro season, but missed most of '07 with injury. Elbert showed some lack of confidence early in his career, but overcame this and now has a reputation as a fierce competitor.
Morales: Franklin Morales was signed by the Rockies out of Venezuela in 2002. He made his North American debut in 2004 at the age of 18. After a rough beginning, he was very impressive at the A-ball levels in '05 and '06, then made his major league debut in '07 after doing well in the Texas and Pacific Coast Leagues. Early in his career, scouts reported he lost concentration at times and needed to grow up some, but by the time he reached Double-A he had a reputation as a fierce competitor. He lost his command and some confidence in '08, but made big strides regaining the touch on his pitches and reviving an aggressive mound presence in '09.
Advantage: Both pitchers were premium prospects once established. Both of them have shown strong competitive instincts and the ability to bounce back from challenges. Hard to rate this in a firm direction either way, so I'll call it even..
PHYSICALITY, HEALTH and TOOLS
Elbert: A left-handed hitter and thrower, Elbert was born August 13, 1985. Listed at 6-1, 215, Elbert had surgery to clean up his labrum in 2007, then struggled with his command upon returning in '08. He was healthy last year, but converted to relief due to concerns about his durability. At his best, Elbert features a 92-94 MPH fastball, peaking at 96. He has a slider and curveball, and his changeup is a useful fourth offering, giving him a more diverse arsenal than the average reliever. Some scouts say he has a high-effort delivery and that the shoulder problems could recur if his workload isn't monitored carefully. On the other hand, he's a good overall athlete, and his stuff is certainly electric.
Morales: A left-handed hitter and thrower, Morales was born January 24, 1986. Listed at 6-1, 170, Morales had no significant injury problems in the minors, but did have trouble with a sore shoulder early in 2009. Morales has been clocked as high as 98 MPH, and works consistently in the 93-94 range. He mixes in a curveball and changeup, though he used both pitches less often after moving to relief last year. Fangraphs rates his fastball as a strong pitch, but gives both the curve and change below average ratings. From visual observation when he was in the minors, I thought his breaking ball looked quite sharp, though his command of it was inconsistent. He has some trouble keeping his mechanics in gear, which hampers his command at times.
Advantage: Both of them have plus stuff for a lefty, but Morales has an extra tick of velocity. Both of them have a history of shoulder problems, though Elbert's were more severe and required surgery. Both of them have some mechanical and command issues. Overall I think Morales has a slight edge here.
PERFORMANCE
Elbert: Elbert has a career minor league record of 29-23, 3.27 with a 541/246 K/BB in 462 innings, 348 hits allowed, 10.5 K/9, 4.8 BB/9. In the majors, he has a 6.66 ERA with a 29/11 K/BB in 26 innings, 28 hits allowed, 5.29 FIP.
Morales: Morales has a career minor league record of 41-28, 4.32 with a 582/335 K/BB in 580 innings, 535 hits allowed, 9.0 K/9, 5.2 BB/9. In the majors, he has a 4.56 ERA with a 76/54 K/BB in 105 innings, 100 hits allowed, 4.36 FIP.
Advantage: Elbert posted superior numbers in the minors, particularly with his strikeout and walk rates, but he also pitched in friendlier environments: the Florida State and Southern Leagues aren't as high-offense as the California and Texas Leagues. In the majors, Morales has been more effective and in a larger sample size, with an FIP almost a full run better than Elbert's. Overall both of them present as pitchers with the ability to dominate but also with control problems. You can give Elbert a small edge on minor league performance, though the difference in parks and leagues means it's not as big as it may look on the surface..
PROJECTION
Elbert: Entering 2010, it is still unclear if Elbert will be a starter or reliever in the long run. He has the diverse arsenal to start, but there are mixed opinions about his durability: some people think he'll hold up fine under a starter's workload, but others aren't so sure. He could be a strong number three or a number two starter if everything works out, but he could also be a bullpen force and maybe even a closer if his command sharpens up.
Morales: Rockies sources including manager Jim Tracy have spoken of using Morales as a closer in the future now that his confidence is restored. He certainly has the stuff to be a dominant closer if the command is there.
Advantage: Hard to say given the uncertainty that remains about both of their future roles. Both of them have the talent to be major league closers, or number two starters, IF they throw strikes.
SUMMARY
As you can see, this one is very close. Morales' stuff is a bit better. Elbert was better in the minors, but Morales had more difficult environments to pitch in and has been better in the majors. Both project as possible number two starters or closers if their command sharpens up. From a fantasy point of view, Elbert is probably a better choice since his pitching context will be easier. From a pure baseball point of view, regardless of park and team, I'd give Morales a very slight edge.
0 recs |
17 comments
|
Comments
Elbert's Stuff
“Stuff” doesn’t just mean the fastball. Elbert doesn’t have two breaking balls. He has one. Some people call it a slider. Some call it a curve. Call it whatever you want, but it is a true plus pitch, and Elbert has no qualms about throwing it to major league hitters. When I have seen Morales in the big leagues, he seems scared to throw anything but a fastball. So I wouldn’t say Morales has better stuff, unless you really are limiting the definition of the word so that it is synonymous with “fastball.”
stuff
Given that I described Elbert’s stuff as “electric”, I don’t see what your complaint is.
by John Sickels on Feb 10, 2010 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
You Note The Presense Of Breaking Pitches...
in the arsenals of both Elbert and Morales without commenting on the quality of those breaking pitches. But you DO compare the relative quality of fastballs that Elbert and Morales throw. Thus, when you say Morales has better stuff than Elbert, it sounds like you are making fastball quality the determining factor in whom to give the edge for “Best Stuff,” without comparing breaking balls. My own belief is that Elbert has the better braking ball, by a good measure, while Morales has a slightly better fastball. That is all I’m saying. Maybe you disagree with me that Elbert has the better breaking pitch. If so, fine. But I think it is a subject that should be addressed in a comparison of scouting reports. Am I raising a trivial point? I would say that I am raising the issue of there being different philosophies for evaluating pitching. Logan White recently said that there are over 2000 guys in America who can throw a baseball over 90 MPH, and he doesn’t care about fastball velocity as much as he does the quality of the breaking ball that a guy has to go with the fastball. I suppose that is one way to say that the quality of the breaking pitch is more important in determining “stuff” than fastball velocity, as White sees it.
by CanuckDodger on Feb 10, 2010 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
They both have good breaking stuff
Back when Morales was still prospect eligible, I know Goldstein mentioned that, when he was going right, his CB was a true plus-plus pitch.
That’s what makes this such an interesting comparison. They have very similar profiles all around.
Elbert
I am surprised it’s this close. I like Elbert, but everyone I know think he’s garbage.
There Are A Lot Of Dodger Fans Who Think...
Chad Billingsley and Jonathan Broxton are garbage and that Juan Pierre is really great at baseball. Lesson learned: People, many of them Dodger fans, are morons.
by CanuckDodger on Feb 10, 2010 3:47 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
yea
unfortunately, many of the Dodger ‘fans’ are quite dumb…
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Feb 10, 2010 6:48 PM EST up reply actions
In my opinion
if you put both of them in the bullpen then Morales will have the better career. If you put both of them in the rotation then Elbert will be better. Most likely, Morales ends up a good closer and Elbert ends up a good 3rd starter. Advantage: Elbert.
"JD gets complete blame or credit for what happens in 2010 and I think Nolan wants it that way. JD is paid to be a real GM and needs to start performing like one." - Josey Wales
For me it depends on Elbert's health.
I think he’s the better of the two if he can remain upright. The guy’s a solid pitcher with very good stuff.
I’m just not sure Morales will put it together as a starter. I agree with Michael Cave’s assessment above.
"When Justin Upton faces Lincecum, I think Christ might appear in the heavens, and the world will end." -JakeFree
The Rockies are conditioning Morales as a starter over the offseason and Spring Training
As Francis insurance. To be honest, if he has a great year in 2010, he’s excellent trade bait since Street isn’t going anywhere; his situation is the same as Brandon Morrow’s.
Impossible not to have positive thoughts.
I want Sam Deduno to pitch already.
I really think the shoulder issue has been overblown
It was 3 years ago and he has been fine since 08. The Dodgers took it slow with him coming back and put him in the pen. In 09, they tested him as a starter, and he passed. He held up the whole year and probably deserved a couple starts in the majors. Also, it was a cleanup. It wasnt reconstructive surgery, TJS, or anything else. It was a cleanup . This has been overblown since it occured. The fact that he has regained his stuff and improved his command since he had surgery, it should really be put to rest.
I think Elbert has the better arsenal, but Morales has the better fastball. The interesting thing is all of Elbert’s pitches have movement. That may take off a couple MPH on the fastball because he needs to be able to make it move. The movement on his pitches is one reason why he has so many HBP. He has been known to start a pitch too far inside and hit a guy. However, I think this is OK. If guys are afraid of getting hit, then you have an advantage before the AB begins.
It seems that Elbert will start the season in the minors as a starter. If he doesnt win the 5th starting spot, he will be up sometime this season..
Finally, dont look at Elberts MLB numbers as an indicator. They are all very small sample sizes over multiple seasons, and have been in mop up roles when he had no idea he would pitch…
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Feb 10, 2010 6:56 PM EST reply actions
Elbert's shoulder
I think John fairly described Elbert’s injury. Any time you mess with the labrum, people become concerned. Scouts see his high-effort delivery and worry more. You can argue the Dodgers have become ultra-conservative with injuries (Withrow). Elbert has pitched 150 innings since returning a year-and-a-half ago. I don’t see how you can just put the injury to bed.
I like Elbert, he’s put up ridiculous strikeout totals in the minors, but he has some red flags, as does Morales, that should be mentioned in order to make a fair assessment of him.
Im not saying that Elbert doesnt have red flags
But I feel his injury has been overblown. He has thrown 163 innings since his injury and has come back better. He has kept his velocity and his control has improved. I understand it is always a fear when dealing with prospects, but the fact it was just a cleanup makes me not worry as much. I still think he can be a VERY effective starter in the majors, for a long time. Im sorry, but there arent a lot of lefties who stay in the mid 90s with a running FB, have a plus slider, a change up and a curve ball… there arent many pitchers in baseball where all their pitches have movement…
I may be in the minority, and I dont mind it, but I feel he has shown he is healthy..
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Feb 10, 2010 9:11 PM EST up reply actions
Relief
“e was healthy last year, but converted to relief due to concerns about his durability. At his best, Elbert”
This isn’t exactly true…..Elbert pitched in 20 games in the minors last year; 18 were starts. It is true that he relieved for the Dodgers, but I think that was more due to the Dodger’s needs and to get Elbert’s feet wet than a conversion to relief due to durability concerns.
yea
He came up in relief because that is what the Dodger do with all top prospects. Put them on the bench/in the pen to see if they are ready.
He should have gotten a start at sometime last year, but did not. It had nothing to do with health, he was 100% healthy, it was more about how the Dodgers are more important than the Albuquerque Isotopes…
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Feb 11, 2010 4:33 PM EST up reply actions

by 










