Greinke to the Rangers?
by baseball5 on Dec 12, 2010 5:17 PM EST
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If the Rangers lose out on Cliff Lee, they could find a plan B in Zach Greinke. After Lee, there isn't much top of the line starting pitching available on the free agent market. If the Rangers want to compete with the Angels next year, they'll need a legitimate number 1 starter.
I thought of a possible trade that would be beneficial to both sides:
To the Royals:
Neftali Feliz - the reigning AL Rookie of the Year as a closer, the Royals could turn him into a starter. Although he hasn't proved that he can be an ace in the major leagues, he has that kind of potential with 5 years of team control left. With all of their left handed pitching prospects, they could use a RHP with potential.
Jurickson Profar - this shortstop prospect has the potential to be a great MLB shortstop for many years. The Royals could move their 2010 draft pick SS Christian Colon to second base and the two could form a nice double play combo in the future. At worst, Profar projects to be an average hitter with great defense. Although he is very young, he held his own in his league against older competition.
Tanner Scheppers - He is a pitching prospect with ace potential, although he projects more as a future closer. He was great at the beginning of last year in a bullpen role before struggling as a starter. I've also heard that he has injury concerns. But I think he could bounce back and become a future closer with his fastball-curveball combo.
Julio Borbon - If Borbon could improve his approach at the plate and learn to take more walks he could become a decent leadoff man. Although he has a weak arm in center field, he has great range. If Borbon could get on base more consistently, he could be a good centerfield option for the Royals. If he improves his approach, him and Profar could make the royals solid up the middle in the near future.
Matt Harrison - Matt Harrison would give the Royals an inexpensive starting pitching option. He is also left-handed. He would be a good player to be the final piece for this trade and he can help immediately in Kansas City.
To the Rangers:
Zach Greinke - Greinke won the Cy Young award in 2009 with rediculously good stats as the Royals ace. He is paid only $27 Million through 2012, which is relatively cheap for a proven ace of his caliber. He has great control to go with his great stuff and is only 27 years old.
Joakim Soria - the only way I see the Rangers trading Feliz is if Soria is included in the deal. He gives them a proven closer to replace Feliz in the bullpen. He has a very team friendly contract with options through 2014. Since the Royals won't be ready to compete until 2012 at the earliest, I think it would be a good idea to include Soria to improve the Royals in the long run for the future. It's a tough call but by the time the Royals are ready to compete, Scheppers should be ready to assume the closer's role in Kansas City, if he develops as planned.
In conclusion, the Royals would be giving up their 2 best players for the finishing pieces to their rebuilding process. But, let's face it, the Royals aren't winning anything in 2011 even with Soria and Greinke. On the other hand, the Rangers would be getting two players who make the Rangers legitimate World Series threats for the next few years. Added to their already strong core, Greinke could be the final piece if Lee ends up rejecting their offer.
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Feliz and Soria
kinda seem like an unnecessary exchange considering the Royals would most likely use Feliz to a closing capacity. I think a deal would probably be Feliz, Profar, Scheppers and Harrison, if the Rangers are willing to go that far for Greinke
I think you can take out the Soria/Feliz
and the deal gets done, maybe instead of Harrison the Rangers have to send Hunter
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
by Rickfansince76 on Dec 13, 2010 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
You think Profar, Scheppers, Borbon, Hunter would net Greinke?
I respectfully (though it’s difficult) disagree.
LOL
If Felix is “untouchable”, then Soria certainly is too.
Felix
IS untouchable. Feliz, on the other hand, is probably quite touchable.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Dec 13, 2010 8:57 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think he rolls that way
nor is he young enough.
"By MLB.TV, we can see J. Hamilton's homer, M. Young's clutch, and N. Feliz's explosive. All about Rangers things can be our interest"
--South Korean Rangers fan
just strange
i can’t see royals dealing their two best chips in the same trade. not really maximizing the talent return doing that. and i don’t see the Rangers moving Feliz. though it would be “swallowable” if they got another elite relief pitcher back. i dunno, just a different idea that i’d have to digest more.
and FWIW, Borbon and Harrison probably don’t do anything in this trade. the Royals have a bazillion players about equal in value.
R.I.P. cwhitman412, Frederick0220, & Mets2k9
http://twitter.com/doublestix
Feliz is not going anywhere
If shifted back to the rotation, he could almost as good, if not as good as greinke, without the mental problems(which i think are overblown) and the heavy contract. the most realistic combo ive seen thrown out there are profar, martin perez and beltre, though i dont think even that is realistic. thats way to much for greinke, or any other pitcher in the league, and no other team in baseball is going to offer kc anywhere near that combination. wont happen. if the rangers dealt away the combo i mentioned that would be the equivalent of tom hick throwing out the 250 mil contract to arod when nobody else was even close to that. from everything that ive read, profar is already beginning to make andrus expendable. unless he flakes out, he is our ss of the future. i would be willing to deal perez, scheppers and beltre. i dont like the idea of profar being in there, but with andrus, maybe the rangers will be open to it. but the one person on your list in that trade that stands no chance of being dealt is feliz. personally, id prefer the rangers resign cliff lee, shift feliz back to the rotation, and then sign rafael soriano to be the closer. wed be just as well off as if we had gotten greinke and we would not have gutted our minors
wow, I disagree with so much here
1. Greinke’s contract is not “heavy” at all.
2. Feliz is a reliever at this point for good reasons. If they wanted him to start, they’d have him starting. It’s a huge leap to think he’ll not only be good as a starter, but so good that he’ll contend for and perhaps win Cy Youngs.
3. Profar is 2-3 years from the majors even in the best case. It’s not a good idea to go changing the depth chart yet.
4. Even if Profar develops well, Andrus is already a good player in his own right. If Profar replaces him, it’ll likely be because Profar is more cost-effective rather than a talent gap.
5. Sure, the best plan is to resign Cliff Lee. That’s obviously at the top of the list, but a Greinke trade to the Rangers would likely develop in the aftermath of Lee signing with a non-Rangers team.
6. You’re good at spending other people’s money. The Rangers are supposed to resign Lee for $150-$180 million and then give Soriano a ton of money on top of that? That works in a fantasy world, but the Lee signing is going to strain their resources as is. Maybe they could sign Soriano as a consolation prize if Lee goes elsewhere and try to shift Feliz to the rotation along with a prospects-for-Greinke trade, but that’s about as good as it gets.
Point for #2
If they wanted him to start, they’d have him starting.
For the 1,482,932nd time….. Daniels has REPEATEDLY said Feliz will compete for a spot in the starting rotatoin in 2011. I’m sick and tired of reading how Feliz has been a reliever for a year and all of a sudden that’s all he will ever do.
Now I agree that the rest of that point takes a huge leap of faith, but I think it is ignorant to just say Feliz is a reliever from here on out.
sure, I can believe he'll compete
But I expect this to be resolved early in the spring, because I don’t think the Rangers are going to risk his arm or his performance by forcing him to recondition for closing just before the season starts.
And I didn’t refer to what will happen in the future. I don’t think you can argue that my reasoning is solid enough to explain why Feliz has been a reliever for the last year and a half. As for the future, my opinion is simply that I don’t really know yet if he’s stuck in the pen, nor does anybody else. I like seeing a starter being broken into the majors in the pen, but at the same time, I think Feliz profiles better in the pen. So basically, while I don’t think he’s necessarily restricted to being a reliever for the rest of his career, I do think that it’s where he’ll end up ultimately.
well, this has been a debate since he got brought up
his success in the pen is ultimately what fueled it. fact is, there are way too many scenarios that need to play out first, because right now its all speculation. personally, i think he could be ALMOST as good as greinke, but the point i was originally trying to makes was, if feliz can even get closet to what greinke is, its not worth giving up ALL that for greinke….
by rangersfan24 on Dec 12, 2010 8:20 PM EST up reply actions
wow a little sensitive
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
by Rickfansince76 on Dec 13, 2010 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
i disagree with most of what you said
first of all, i wasnt saying replace andrus NOW. but profar is more talented, but as a prospect, is no lock to be a success in the majors. second, 13 million a season is heavy compared to feliz making less than half a million, though obviously would not be heavy compared to what lee will get, but greinke will only be under control for 2 years. third, i dont think youve been paying much attention to what the rangers(nolan and chuck) have been saying, as they have said numerous times that signing lee would not prevent them from making other big moves, and there was talk of them still trading for greinke, or at leats trying to, even if they signed lee.you have owners with more money than hicks that are actually willing to spend it. anoither y=thing you are forgetting is the tv contract they signed with fox sports sw, which will pay them over 100 mil per season, a luxury tom hicks certainly did not have. but if they are willing to acquire greinke and his 13 mil per season for greinke on top of lee(not saying that would actually happen), then they would be willing to spend that money on soriano so they could transition feliz back to the pen. feliz isnt in the pen because thats where they envision him, hes there because that is where they needed him, and if franky hadnt bombed this year, he probably would have been moved to the rotation at some point.
by rangersfan24 on Dec 12, 2010 7:25 PM EST up reply actions
and where in the world did you get 180 mil?
the yanks were at around 160 for 7 years. the rangers have stuck by offering 6 years max guaranteed, though they did allegedly include an option for a 7th
by rangersfan24 on Dec 12, 2010 7:28 PM EST up reply actions
I had to put a general range
7 years at $25 million per is $175 million, so I just added a little to that.
ahhh
i dont think thatd happen not only cuz the rangers wont go there, but the yankees wont even go there. at 180 mil ill pass and concentrate on greinke or garza
by rangersfan24 on Dec 12, 2010 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
Did you really just post this?
If shifted back to the rotation, he could almost as good, if not as good as greinke
well
he COULD almost be as good. he qualified it. and (and i’m a huge Greinke fan) Greinke wasn’t all that great last year.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Dec 13, 2010 8:58 AM EST up reply actions
Wasn't Greinke Like 16th
In WAR among SPs last year?
EDIT: 11th according to Fangraphs at 5.2 WAR (150+ IP). Seems pretty good to me, even in a down year…
4th in WAR over the last three seasons
Behind Halladay, Lee, and Lincecum.
Totally reasonable to think Feliz could be just as good……
I could buy the Rangers this summer.
One of these scratch tickets just has to hit big.
eh
I don’t really see the Rangers getting Greinke without giving up Martin Perez. The Soria-for-Feliz part of the deal is an interesting idea, especially with Scheppers to project as a possible late-inning replacement. I’d think that Engel Beltre might be involved as well, since the Royals are in need of a possible CF option and Beltre’s upside makes him a natural target in the return for Greinke. I’d be a little surprised if they traded Profar so early.
I think the trade works on a smaller scale
I see Feliz and Soria staying put. Maybe Perez, Profar, Borbon and a 4th mid-level prospects might get it done. I suspect Greinke will be pitching for the loser of the Lee sweepstakes this season.
Give the Royals Holland,Perez, and Profar.
and we will call it a deal.
no
the royals have enough LHP..
a perfect fit would be drabek and lawrie along with a catcher from toronto
no they don't
They have lots of left-handed pitching PROSPECTS, which is not the same as having left-handed major league pitchers. But even lots of prospects are never enough. The handedness of the pitchers doesn’t really matter – you just want talent, no matter what their handedness happens to be. I suppose you’d want your left-handed pitching prospects to have good changeups, but even that is not a problem with the Royals’ bunch.
drabek and lawrie would still trump perez, profar and holland......
….but it’s hard to believe the Jays would include Lawrie after giving up Marcum, who would have been very attractive to the royals in his own right.
"I didn't really say everything I said."-Yogi ism
it would?
I’d take the Rangers package. The talent level of the players is relatively close, so getting three players rather than two is a huge plus. Plus you get Holland as a major league ready arm with substantial experience.
I dont think the Royals would have wanted Marcum. They want controllable years and Marcum has 2 left.
Holland
is the best player out of all the ones mentioned
plus I’d probably take Perez over Drabek
by METSMETSMETS on Dec 13, 2010 12:02 AM EST up reply actions
good points...I should have added a Jays catcher prospect
Thing is these proposed packages are just a starting point. WURoyal later posted that KC wants 5 players in return and wants two of these to slot into their rotation. Holland and Drabek both fit the bill but Perez is a ways off whereas the Jays can include Rzepczynski, Litsch or Zach Stewart.
Perez and Profar may indeed be the two most talented players being “offered” to KC but Drabek put up 179 innings and Lawrie is almost ready despite not turning 21 till next month.
Ultimately KC has such great prospects already that guessing what they prefer is pointless….but it sure is fun knowing that the Yankees aren’t in this conversation, whining about having to give up Jesus to play this game.
As for Marcum I’ll disagree with you based on what KC did with Meche, another 3/4 starter signed as much for leadership as he was to be an innings eater. Milwaukee wanted Marcum to help Gallardo become an ace and KC could have felt the same way about tutoring Lamb and Montgomery over the next few years.
"I didn't really say everything I said."-Yogi ism
why?
Why would the Blue Jays do this deal? They’re still a few years away from competing, a couple years of Greinke doesn’t help much.
disagree.....Greinke makes the Jays quite relevant
A rotation of Greinke, Romero, Morrow and Cecil is much closer to what Boston and Tampa have and blows away the current Yankees. As for hitting, the Jays led the majors in home runs last year and the Jays top 5 hitters are all in the 27 to 30 range so you have to consider that their prime as a group is now and not 2013.
AA apparently doesn’t want to give up Jackson, Snider or Lawrie but there’s no reason to think he won’t move other youngsters to help the club, he proved that by dealing away Wallace after pursuing him for years!
"I didn't really say everything I said."-Yogi ism
no way
if the dodgers wont even consider dealing drabke and snider, we should not even consider dealing all three of these guys. take out one of those three and make it scheppers, who i think is a serious injury risk, then id be game. i also think people have given up on holland a little too fast
by rangersfan24 on Dec 12, 2010 8:24 PM EST up reply actions
Royals
The Royals aren’t going to trade Grienke for some mediocre package, they don’t want guys like Borbon, Sheppers, Harrison, and while he has upside, at 17 Profar can’t be the main piece of the deal either. Its gonna take something like (Feliz or Holland), Martin Perez, and (Profar or E Beltre). If the Rangers were smart they would use Feliz as the centerpiece of the deal and could probably get out of it without trading Perez and Profar. I seriously doubt Feliz could ever be an elite starter, and honestly in the long run I don’t see him starting at all. Trade Feliz, put Sheppers in to close, slide Greinke and Holland into the rotation and you still have your top two prospects, and your looking pretty good.
Ha, you don't trade a rookie of the year that lightly.....
unless you have Feliz in a fantasy pool and are haunted by the spectre of another jobawahaha
"I didn't really say everything I said."-Yogi ism
Ha
yeah because rookie of the year means so much. If you have a chance to trade a closer for a top starter you don’t even think about it. Feliz has the hype going now because people still think he can become a starter which I will believe when I see it. The Rangers are too focused on winning THIS year, they are not going to be to give up their ‘closer’ while trying to transition him into the rotation. And every year in the pen it becomes less likely he improves his secondary stuff to the point where he has any chance of being a top starter. he’s throwing 80 percent fastballs out of the pen, that in no way is preparing him to be a starter, pitching through the order multiple times with his current arsenal of pitches he will get exposed.
by GoldenSpikes24 on Dec 13, 2010 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
Thoughts
Soria isn’t going to be traded. His value is immense and his contract is through 2014 when the Royals would conceivably be contending.
I believe the current asking price for Greinke alone is something like Holland, Hunter, Perez, Beltre, and Profar. The things we’ve heard are that the Royals expect two pitchers in return with Greinke-like upside and ML-ready pitching to help out the rotation now. Recently, I saw the report say the asking price was 5 premium pieces.
I don’t know what a premium piece really is, however I can all but guarantee you Julio Borbon isn’t a request. His speed is good but Dayton likes CF’s with a big arm. There are lots of fast guys in our system. Maybe Borbon is being pursued, but I doubt it. I also doubt Matt Harrison is a guy the Royals would go after for the rotation. Honestly, the Royals are looking for a guy who could come in and be assured a top 3 spot. Harrison legitimately might not beat out Sean O’Sullivan.
The thing is, Greinke is by far the best pitcher on the market after Lee signs. It’s really not close. Texas would have to bank on good options becoming available down the stretch (which they will) but those options will be expensive in terms of prospects as well.
Trading for Greinke gives Texas a legit shot at a World Series. With Lee, he’s an extra. Without Lee, Texas will absolutley have to trade for a staff ace at some point this season to have a prayer for a World Series. That’s the real value. Greinke keeps the championship hopes alive.
Neither Perez, Beltre, or Profar is likely to see significant ML time in the next 2 years playing for the Rangers. These guys are high upside prospects but, given the amount of cash you have without Lee, they’d be replaceable by spending heavily in the minors over a couple years.
Hunter simply isn’t very good (and the Rangers, unlike the Royals are smart enough to realize this and not sweat the loss), but Holland would be a loss. One concession I could see the Royals potentially taking is Scheppers instead of Holland, Profar, or Beltre. Erlin is also an interesting name somewhere in the puzzle.
Anyway, I’ve been keeping up with the trade talk a lot and that’s what I believe based off of what I’ve read from reporters, DM, and Royalsprospects.com. KC doesn’t have to trade Greinke, and they won’t if they don’t get their deal. Adrian Gonzalez is the example (and they’ve said so). Everyone might think this is a lot (and it is) but you have to remember that minor leaguers don’t really matter. There is a very legitimate shot that every individual minor league player will fail, especially when none of the prospects listed here have succeeded at AA or above. Moreover, these guys are all replaceable. Texas has shown an eye for scouting pitchers and there is no doubt in my mind they will continue to.
Which offer would you take WU?
Texas – Holland, Hunter, Perez, Beltre, and Profar
Toronto – Drabek, Rzepczynski, Gose, Hecchavarria, and D’Arnaud
The Jays package is basically the return they got for Doc with Hecch replacing Taylor/Wallace, and Rzepczynski the extra arm so I don’t think Toronto offers much more than this.
"I didn't really say everything I said."-Yogi ism
That is tough
Those are both solid packages that may not be loaded with multiple superstars like KC fans are hoping for, but have some very good depth and upside.
I think Holland is the best player in either package, followed very closely by Drabek. Hunter and Rzep seem to cancel each other out as back-end arms that can give you innings.
I would probably lean towards the Perez-Beltre-Profar trio over Gose-Hecchavarria-D’Arnaud, but it’s close. I also don’t think Toronto will trade Hecchavarria so soon after signing him.
I don't thing the Jays had Yunel when they signed Hecchavarria
which is why I included him.
From what I see on John’s site I think even KC fans would be drooling at this potential haul from Texas but it might come down to something as little as Hecchavarria being ready sooner than Profar or KC liking the catcher option from Toronto.
BTW, I’m convinced AA pushes for a deal because not only is a rotation of Greinke, Romero, Morrow and Cecil needed to compete in the East, but their top 6 hitters are well into their prime….Wells is 32, Bautista and Rajai Davis are 30, Hill and Yunel are 28, and Lind is 27.
Because of their relative youth Texas has to offer much better prospects and it might indeed take Neftali Feliz to swing a deal Texas way.
"I didn't really say everything I said."-Yogi ism
Agree on Toronto
I’m not sure why but it seems like Toronto’s fans are the most pessimistic about their team’s chances in 2011. I think they have a nice mix of veterans and youth and could definitely push for a postseason bid, especially now that it looks like NY is going to have weak starting pitching after CC.
i'd be jizzing over either of those offers
R.I.P. cwhitman412, Frederick0220, & Mets2k9
http://twitter.com/doublestix
what if the Jays didn't include Drabek/Rzep
but instead had Stewart and Lawrie in there? The top end isn’t quite as good, though much more depth, but there is very little chance of the deal truly backfiring for KC.
Stewart only recently converted to starting....
Toronto keeping Drabek as their 5th starter would allow them to include both Rzep and Litsch but KC may still not think that’s enough pitching in return. Jackson only pitched 136 innings and is barely ahead of Martin Perez despite being 5 years older so I’m sure KC will prefer any Texas offer if Drabek is taken out. Mind you, KC is rumored to really like Lawrie so you can’t discount it totally……hmmm, what if Lawrie were to change his mind again about catching, he is just 20 so there’s enough time….
"I didn't really say everything I said."-Yogi ism
+ 2
That would be a logical deal for Greinke. You just cant go in and expect to get a guy like him and have all these untouchables.
Rangers make sense for a deal…what other teams have the type of guys that KC would want ?
Off the cuff
I think teams that make sense (i.e. could be interested and have the prospects to make it work) include Texas, Toronto, NYY, Atlanta, and Minnesota. Milwaukee and Washington have been rumored suitors but I’m not sure they have the ammo to do a deal.
Not just the ammo.....
the need.
Neither Texas nor Toronto has a true ace and just as importantly, their perception is that they need an ace to lead the staff and compete in their division. None of those other teams will offer enough nor do they need to, except in the case of NYY where there is simply a mutual “disinterest”. This will be even clearer after tonight if Lee signs there as expected and Texas steps up their bid for Greinke.
"I didn't really say everything I said."-Yogi ism
Rangers not a great fit
According to Jerry Crasnick’s sources.
We’ve read reports that the Nationals aren’t a good fit too. It’s all posturing. The Royals certainly would like ML ready up the middle prospects, but I think the right deal could focus on ML ready pitching as well.
by WURoyal on Dec 14, 2010 2:57 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
+ 1
I have read the Royals want up the middle talent..I cant seem to think of any teams that have that type of talent that would be in the market for Greinke..
Is it possible that it could end up being some kind of a 3 team deal?
well, i can think of one
The Cubs have up-the-middle talent and righty arms, but I’m not sure whether or not there’s enough quality to make a deal without having to give up multiple top prospects, and I’m not sure how willing the Cubs would be to give up multiple top prospects (say, B. Jax, Cashner or McNutt, Lee, and one or two more pieces, which would sort of fit the profile that Dayton Moore reportedly is searching for).
I doubt it's enough. GM's tend to get fixated on the most sparkly object in the room
whether it’s on the table or not. In this case, I would think that object would be Castro for Moore, and I think the Cubs would wisely keep him out of this.
Don't the Jays have that with lawrie?
by King Billy Royal on Dec 13, 2010 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe?
I’m not sure how many people view Lawrie’s future anywhere but an OF corner. I think he could be passable at 2B or 3B if he was willing to put in the time and work on his defense. I’m just not sure he will ever do that.
http://bullpenbanter.com
Not to be rude or sarcastic but do you really think that figures into the equation?
Take a look at how KC has been valuing D.
Lawrie plus a solid pitcher that can help now plus a stud like drabek plus two further away prospects. Maybe hechevarria and a low level OF or pitcher?
enough to take their best hitter last year and put him on the bench
R.I.P. cwhitman412, Frederick0220, & Mets2k9
http://twitter.com/doublestix
Betemit?
If it was solely for his D they would have played him at DH some. There must be something else going on.
Further Betancourt and Guillen played a significant amount and they are both butchers.
yes Betemit is coming off the bench next year
and they’re unlikely to DH him much because they wanna see what Kila K. has got.
and Guillen played 22 games in the field last year before he was traded. half that was probably to “showcase” him.
i can’t argue Betenturd though. :)
R.I.P. cwhitman412, Frederick0220, & Mets2k9
http://twitter.com/doublestix
my impression has been
they don’t value D highly enough, especially from a rebuilding team that has to be careful with their money. Their budget isn’t like Florida but they can’t throw money around.
I understand Kila, but I would have thought either Betemit should get traded or play every day. Isn’t it more important to showcase him?
The other thing that bothers me has been DM’s fixation about positions. I understand they have some holes and they have some dominant rookies. But most of the time when a team is a few years away you go for the best talent.
IMO they should get someone like Hechevarria/Iglesias/Profar/etc. And a good catcher prospect. As well as two stud prospects regardless of position.
No team will do that if the prospects are at the level of a Montero. But guys with similar upside with some questions would be attainable. For the Jays that means Snider plus a top pitcher not named Drabek. Or Drabek plus a lesser prospect. I just don’t see the Jays moving two of Drabek/Snider/Lawrie PLUS two or three quality prospects. They might move two of them for Greinke. Or one of them plus a very solid pitching prospect plus 3 good prospects.
Fixation on positions?
Between Butler, Hosmer, Moustakas, Kaaihue, Gordon, and probably Myers, I think it’s clear that KC looks solid on corner positions in the near future.
However, what they could use more of is top up the middle talent. I don’t think looking to fill in these areas means Moore is “fixed” on filling certain positions, more just building a team. Plus, I’m not sure Moore has ever come out and said specifically he only wants up the middle players. He could have easily told Toronto he likes their up the middle players, but then told NY he really likes Montero.
on positions
KC didn’t have to say what they prefer, one look at their depth chart and you can guess that they would want someone to compliment Colon at ss or 2B, a Drabek type to go with lefties Lamb and Montgomery, and ideally, a right hitting cf to offset all the lefties coming up. As good a prospect as Montero is, it’s unlikely he’s even been in any conversation with NY, even if it was to “feel things out”, Greinke+anxiety=noNY
"I didn't really say everything I said."-Yogi ism
Correct me if I'm wrong
But didn’t Moore also ask for specific positions with regards to earlier trades of his?
Also, I think you take best available player. You never can tell how prospects can develop.
Montero would have value even if he needed to be moved. And I don’t have concerns with Greinke in NY. I think that is overblown.
If you're right about Greinke's anxiety thing....
then we can all expect ny to go nuts pursuing him now that Lee spurned them.
Do you think Tampa will hesitate to trade Garza within the division?
"I didn't really say everything I said."-Yogi ism
With regards to Garza
I think it’s a matter of whether it’s about truly cutting salary or whether they think he is declining and they are selling high. If they thin they are selling high then I could easily see them moving him in the division. But if it’s a cost cutting move then I doubt he stays in the division. Texas would be a good fit IMO.
Greinke didn’t really have his anxiety affect him during games. In between games is where it was a bigger issue. But he has been maturing and seems to be very different. Winning seems to have a much bigger importance to him now.
I don't think he specifically came out and named positions
I could be wrong, but I thought it was just speculated what Moore was looking for and/or unnamed team sources said what he was looking for.
+1
Totally agree with you. DM doesn’t care if Lawrie has to move off 2B, he’s on the same timetable as their stud prospects and can be moved later like Gordon was. Bottom line is KC seems to prefer the Toronto options and I feel bad for Ranger fans because with Lee signing elsewhere you know the Yankees will step up their efforts to get Garza. Unless Tampa places some importance on trading Garza out of their division, this will leave the Rangers in a position where they may have no choice but to offer Feliz. Texas saw how important it was to have Lee, Wilson and Lewis in the post season so moving Feliz into the rotation wouldn’t help until 2012 considering what happened with Joba. Given how successful Price was this past year I think that’s how Texas will view converting Feliz to a starter as they’ve said they’ll do.
"I didn't really say everything I said."-Yogi ism
I don't know
I can only work with the information provided. Most experts seem to think Lawrie ends up in an OF corner. Dayton Moore has stated they want up the middle talent. Those two statements don’t seem to work well together. It doesn’t mean I can’t see them taking the offer you propose(depending on that fourth prospect). I’m just not sure Lawrie qualifies as “up the middle talent” to most people.
http://bullpenbanter.com
Apparently KC was interested in Lawrie before he went to the Jays. Regardless, the Jays have pitching and up the middle talent available. Hechavarria, Gose, Marisnick, D’Arnaud, Perez and Jiminez fit the bill.
Stewart, Hechavarria and Gose would probably be close to what the Padres got for Gonazlez. And a bit less than what the Jays got for Halladay.
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