Baltimore Orioles Top 20 Prospects for 2011
Baltimore Orioles Top 20 Prospects for 2011
All grades are EXTREMELY PRELIMINARY and subject to change. Don't get too concerned about exact rankings at this point, especially once you get past the Top 10. Grade C+/C guys are pretty interchangeable depending on what you want to emphasize.
Feel free to critique the list, but use logic and reason rather than polemics to do to. The list and grades are a blending of present performance and long-term potential. Full reports on all of players can be found in the 2011 Baseball Prospect Book. We are now taking pre-orders. Order early and order often!
QUICK PRIMER ON GRADE MEANINGS:
Grade A prospects are the elite. They have a good chance of becoming stars or superstars. Almost all Grade A prospects develop into major league regulars, if injuries or other problems don't intervene. Note that is a major "if" in some cases.
Grade B prospects have a good chance to enjoy successful careers. Some will develop into stars, some will not. Most end up spending several years in the majors, at the very least in a marginal role.
Grade C prospects are the most common type. These are guys who have something positive going for them, but who may have a question mark or three, or who are just too far away from the majors to get an accurate feel for. A few Grade C guys, especially at the lower levels, do develop into stars. Many end up as role players or bench guys. Some don't make it at all.
A major point to remember is that grades for pitchers do NOT correspond directly to grades for hitters. Many Grade A pitching prospects fail to develop, often due to injuries. Some Grade C pitching prospects turn out much better than expected.
Also note that there is diversity within each category. I'm a tough grader; Grade C+ is actually good praise coming from me, and some C+ prospects turn out very well indeed.
Finally, keep in mind that all grades are shorthand. You have to read the full comment for my full opinion about a player, the letter grade only tells you so much. A Grade C prospect in rookie ball could end up being very impressive, while a Grade C prospect in Triple-A is likely just a future role player.
1) Manny Machado, SS, Grade A-: Looks like everything you could want in a shortstop. Just needs some experience.
2) Zach Britton, LHP, Grade A-: Love his steady development profile, grounders+strikeouts and command.
3) Dan Klein, RHP, Grade B-: Polished, shouldn't need much minor league time, will durability be an issue if used as starter?
4) Mycal Givens, SS, Grade B-: Injury season, but I like him a lot, toolsy, controls zone well.
5) Xavier Avery, OF, Grade C+: Improved slightly, but I have enough doubts about the bat to preclude a higher grade.
6) L.J. Hoes, 2B, Grade C+: Should hit for average and get on base, power?
7) Jonathan Schoop, SS, Grade C+: Not sure why, but this one stands out to me as a breakout candidate.
8) Ryan Adams, INF, Grade C+: I like the pop in his bat, but defense and plate discipline are problems.
9) Ryan Berry, RHP, Grade C+: I liked him when he was at Rice, can be fourth starter or a good reliever.
10) Wynn Pelzer, RHP, Grade C+: I liked him since his college days at South Carolina. Live arm, should be a good reliever, but it is odd that he was unprotected and unclaimed under Rule 5.
11) Joseph Mahoney, 1B, Grade C+: Huge guy with power, more athleticism than normal for his size, could be a Luke Scott-like sleeper.
12) Tyler Townsend, 1B, Grade C+: Injury season but played well, could rank much higher next year.
13) Matt Hobgood, RHP, Grade C+: Don't give up on him yet; he was the equivalent of a college freshman.
14) Brandon Cooney, RHP, Grade C+: Improvement with his command could make him good relief asset soon.
15) Bobby Bundy, RHP, Grade C+: Live arm made progress, another breakthrough candidate.
16) Connor Narron, SS, Grade C+: High offensive upside, though early numbers were poor.
17) Brandon Waring, 3B, Grade C: Loads of power, but strikeout rate is very high.
18) Eddie Gamboa, RHP, Grade C: Solid utility pitcher, could be a useful swingman.
19) Jarrett Martin, LHP, Grade C: Good stuff, needs to sharpen his control, could break through if that happens.
20) Trent Mummey, OF, Grade C: Could be a solid fourth outfielder if college skills translate better into pro ball.
OTHERS: Matt Angle, OF; Jesse Beal, RHP, Tim Berry, LHP; Parker Bridwell, RHP; Matt Bywater, LHP; Cam Coffee, LHP; Oliver Drake, RHP; Jaime Esquivel, RHP; Randy Henry, RHP; Caleb Joseph, C; Adrian Rosario, RHP; Clay Schrader, RHP; Brandon Snyder, 1B; Ashur Tolliver, LHP; Sebastian Vader, RHP; Ronnie Welty, OF; Aaron Wirsch, LHP.
Machado is great at the top, and I really like Britton, but it thins out fast after that. There are some interesting middle infielders who can pair with Machado eventually. I think Givens can be the best of them. Outfield is very thin.
The pitching list could look much better next year; a lot of the C+/C guys have breakout potential but get conservative grades right now due to lack of experience or injury issues. Martin, Bridwell, T. Berry, Coffee, Esquivel, Tolliver, Vader, and Wirsch could all do interesting things once they get some innings under their belts.
Overall the system looks thing right now, but there is some hope for the future, especially on the pitching side.
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yeah really thin system
but having Machado and britton at the top helps a lot. both are great. I share the liking of Givens as well
No Erbe?
Is he not listed because he is hurt? I would still think he should be listed along with the others.
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Josh Bell
I’m aware that he’s graduated, but what do you/others think about his lackluster performance so far?
I was never a huge fan
I think he’ll be better than he looked last year (hard to reproduce a 2/53 BB/K), but he’d possibly benefit from abandoning switchhitting (I read a couple different sources on how he had no loft/batspeed from the right side, though I think he hit all three of his HRs in the majors righthanded.) He had only had ~350 ABs at AAA, he probably needed a bit more time before the majors. He’ll improve as he can make adjustments, but I don’t think he’s a star. I’m interested in how his defense holds up, whenever I caught an Orioles game on tv and he was playing, he looked pretty ungainly in the field.
by PrincetonCubs on Dec 11, 2010 9:00 PM EST up reply actions
It's obvious to me that...
…he has above-average reflexes and quickness to get to balls on the hot corner. He seems to make the occasional spectacular play, but regularly muffs a routine throw here and there. For me it’s specifically the throws that are a little off. Some of it might just be mental. A lot of times last year it seemed like he would get to a scorched ball, then rush the throw on a runner that you shouldn’t have to rush it on, forcing an error.
Matt Angle
John,
Love to get your take on Angle. You mention Mummey as a potential 4th OF if things work out. Seems like Angle could be a 4th OF this season.
I think the idea is that Angle is at his ceiling
while Mummey is not.
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by arlingtonOsFan on Dec 13, 2010 8:04 PM EST up reply actions
Mummey
I’ve been a fan since his Auburn days and I’m pulling for him. I think his size probably tempers a lot of folks’ enthusiasm. I guess if he can stick in CF and develop some lead-off skills he might have a shot to shake that tag? Maybe a Brett Gardner type if everything broke right?
by blackoutyears on Dec 17, 2010 6:43 PM EST up reply actions
Any thoughts on Ohman?
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ohlman? catcher?
yeah, i was curious, too.
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by j.q. higgins on Dec 11, 2010 11:24 PM EST up reply actions
yes typo.
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by Dan Strittmatter on Dec 12, 2010 9:48 AM EST up reply actions
I thought KC was going to take him for sure...
10) Wynn Pelzer, RHP, Grade C+: I liked him since his college days at South Carolina. Live arm, should be a good reliever, but it is odd that he was unprotected and unclaimed under Rule 5.
pelzer
He’s okay, but his stuff isn’t great by reliever standards and his fastball command wasn’t there this year. I saw him on 3 occasions and wasn’t impressed.
Curious
Did you see him before or after the move to the pen? I definitely agree that he’s nothing special, but just wondered whether you saw him in the pen.
by realitypolice on Dec 13, 2010 9:04 AM EST up reply actions
actually, both
I saw two starts and one appearance out of the pen.
Ronnie Welty
I might be missing something on this one, but I remember thinking last year that Ronnie Welty was one of the best OF prospects in their system, and then he went .282/.349/.464 at High-A Frederick, and led the club with 18 HR. I think he should be on this list.
159 strikeouts
159 strikeouts in 130 games.
Still, he should be on as a Grade C.
by John Sickels on Dec 12, 2010 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
It could be worse...
….Greg Halman….
by forloveofthegam3 on Dec 12, 2010 10:36 PM EST up reply actions
Gah!
Manny Machado is a good prospect. A very, very good prospect. Is he a better prospect than Zach Britton? Absolutely not. It simply blows my mind that people continue to put him above Britton. Maybe it’s “the next big thing” syndrome, where recent draftees with no pro experience get ranked higher than they merit simply as they haven’t been around long enough for their weaknesses to become apparent. Nonetheless, Zach Britton is coming off a year where he posted a 3.25 FIP ERA in AAA (and a 2.99 normal ERA) while showing even better stuff than he had before. He had the highest GB rate in the high minors (AA and AAA), and was tied for 5th in all of full season ball. At the same time he showed good command and plus swing and miss stuff.
Zach Britton could be an above average starter as early as 2011. Manny Machado could fail to advance out of A ball. Manny Machado could be a stellar all-around shortstop. Zach Britton could be a left-handed ace. I’m sorry, I just can’t see the reasoning for ranking Machado above Britton given how much more safe a bet Britton is, and how Britton’s upside is not really worth that much less than Machado’s.
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Is Britton really just a B+?
Excelling at AA and AAA, he seems to both have near-ace upside (let’s say #2) and be very close to contributing. I was expecting at least an A-
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britton
OK, I’ll go along with Britton as an A-. The written comment is nothing but positive accolades, and an A- fits better
britton
He looks like the second coming of Chien-Ming Wang to me. And I don’t see how that equals an A- prospect. I don’t see how you can grade him higher than guys like Lamb, Montgomery, Perez, and Vizcaino (and especially Pineda if you end up giving him a B+).
by Randolph314 on Dec 12, 2010 3:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Uh...
You do realize that from 2006-2007, Wang was the best pitcher on the Yankees? He was the 16th and 20th most valuable pitcher in all of baseball those two years. AND Britton has better stuff than Wang ever had, has better swing and miss stuff than Wang had, and has more pitches than Wang had. His upside is right in line with all the guys you mentioned (i.e. Brandon Webb), and he’s a safer bet than almost any of them thanks to his groundball tendencies.
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by Franchise887 on Dec 12, 2010 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
Brandon Webb
Being Britton’s ceiling of course.
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by Franchise887 on Dec 12, 2010 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
britton
I’m not suggesting that Wang wasn’t a valuable pitcher for a 2 year stretch. But if a pitcher’s probable upside is someone who even at his peak had ERAs around 3.7 and xFIPs around 4.2, I don’t think that makes him one of the top 3-5 pitching prospects in baseball, which is what an A- rating implies.
Brandon Webb is a more interesting comp. But that’s a pretty improbable career path – going from mediocre K/9 and K/BB rates in the minors to very good rates in the majors. How likely is Britton to make the same leap? I’m suspicious of pitchers who supposedly have great stuff, and don’t put up great K rates. if you can’t dominate minor leaguers, how good can your stuff be?
+100
I’m totally on board here. I think people are getting a little suckered in by his minor league numbers.
I might still have him an A-… but its very possibly Britton reaches the majors and turns out JamesShieldsy.
Cue
Discussion of whether or not britton’s FB is a valuable weapon.
by blackoutyears on Dec 13, 2010 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
That's a great example.
I think he’s in that tier pretty comfortably and would not be surprised in the least if any of those quality of players ended up better MLB pitchers.
Uh...
Better stuff, vastly better GB rates (the difference between Britton and Gibson is the same as the difference between Gibson and league average…that’s not exactly a slight difference), and there’s the fact that Britton also has already conquered AAA. It’s not a good comparison at all.
Elite groundball rates are pitching’s equivalent of positional players and defense…people just ignore it because they don’t know how to quantify it.
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by Franchise887 on Dec 14, 2010 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
No, I’m pretty sure we know how to quantify it. The main thing is that Gibson appears to have (by numbers and scouting) a strikeout pitch that will work at the big-league level. I just don’t think that Britton has that pitch. Sometimes you have to go with scouting over numbers (though in this case, the numbers are pretty great for both).
I thought I’d just add to my original thesis that I don’t think all minor league strikeouts are created equally. The hitters in AA and AAA are all way worse than most non-Brendan Ryan hitters in the Majors. What works to get them out doesn’t necessarily work to get big leaguers out.
Britton has an awesome sinker, but my feeling is that he throws it down the middle a lot and gets swings over the top by inferior hitters. Gibson has a lot more command, which makes his stuff play up. I was on the Scott Baker train early on because I saw some video of him spotting the ball excellently in the strike zone; Gibson has that same trait, and it makes me believe that his 7.5 K/9 in the minors will translate a lot more evenly to the Bigs than Britton’s will (much like Baker, except without the massive FB tendencies). I expect Britton’s K rate to go down significantly as he learns to pitch (it could easily go through the roof if/when he does).
Also, Gibson has a great slider (60 or 70) and a changeup that is above-average or could become so depending on who you ask (Manuel is quite high on it; said it’s better than Wimmers’s). Britton’s secondary stuff just doesn’t compare.
No, we know exactly how to quantify the ability to get ground balls. We put it in the form of a percentage.
What we aren’t clear on is exactly how well this ability projects to the next level when the other peripherals (like K rate) aren’t terribly impressive.
I’m not sure I agree with the characterization of “better stuff” either.
John
I’m curios as to whether RHP Brett Jacobsen would have made the list if he wasn’t just traded?
16-20 range? or higher, lower?
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by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Dec 12, 2010 2:07 PM EST reply actions
Yeah...
…I would think he would have appeared in the 19-20 at best, or, int he OTHERS section if at all.
Just a thought...
…but this system has recently handed out a bunch of promotions to the majors in 2009, and in 2010, it had a significant share of injury seasons to its better prospects. So maybe it looks thin right now, but there’s a higher chance than average of it bouncing back next season to an average major-league franchise level?
They have made the right moves
Outside of the bizarre Hobgood pick, most of the damage to the system has been from promotions and injuries. In the last 2 years the O’s have graduated 3 top 10ish prospects and a majority of their internal top 20.
This offseason has been note-perfect. Stockpiling younger players coming off down seasons cheap is never a bad call, as the investment is low and the potential returns great. The same goes for stockpiling middle infielders and relievers, as there is always a trade demand for them at midseason.
Hobgood...
…not sure what to think of him just yet. I’ve reserved my judgment on him. Like John said, he’s still very young. Being south of 23 is a prospect sanctuary, but it starts working against you at some point. Just hoping he’s not the pitching version of Rowell. The Top picks of the org have been decent overall after you factor in Matusz, Markakis, and Wieters. Before then it’s been their share of bad. Their early round picks have been pretty interesting, which is also why I’ve not been so happy to give up any 2nd round picks, in lieu of their protected pick.
Tolliver
Very few in Birdland have seen Tolliver pitch with the exception of the scouts and management. He should be 100% going into Spring Training this year and I expect him to have a break out year. His numbers from last year do not reflect his ability.
by 4theloveofthegame on Dec 14, 2010 12:03 PM EST reply actions
Tolliver
Correction: Not many have seen him pitch to his potential. When healthy sits 92 – 93 touches 95 – 96. Change up has 2 levels of break plus plus pitch and in the past has thrown a nasty slider.
by 4theloveofthegame on Dec 14, 2010 12:10 PM EST reply actions
Brandon Snyder
Couldn’t crack the Top 20?
I’ve never been as big on Snyder as others, but I would have at least slotted him above Mummey until Mummey can at least prove he can play A ball.
This list is SAD! Not in John’s analysis…it’s just a sad system right now. I mean, people are big on Machado, but he hasn’t “done” anything yet. And I love Britton…but he’s probably not as good as Matusz and the jury is still out on how well Matusz can do long term given that team and ballpark.
Machado
I watched him while he was in Aberdeen and this kid is the real deal. He is for sure an A- player. Came up with some big hits for a kid right out of HS.
by 4theloveofthegame on Dec 16, 2010 5:15 PM EST up reply actions

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