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BA FSL Top 20


1. Matt Moore, lhp, Charlotte Stone Crabs (Rays)
2. Chris Archer, rhp, Daytona Cubs
3. Jacob Turner, rhp, Lakeland Flying Tigers
4. Dellin Betances, rhp, Tampa Yankees
5. Travis D'Arnaud, c, Dunedin Blue Jays
6. Tony Sanchez, c, Bradenton Pirates
7. Brett Jackson, of, Daytona Cubs
8. Anthony Gose, of, Clearwater Threshers (Phillies)/ Dunedin Blue Jays
9. Trevor May, rhp, Clearwater Threshers (Phillies)
10. Wilmer Flores, ss, St. Lucie Mets
11. Adieny Hechavarria, ss, Dunedin Blue Jays
12. Henderson Alvarez, rhp, Dunedin Blue Jays
13. Adam Warren, rhp, Tampa Yankees
14. Liam Hendriks, rhp, Fort Myers Miracle (Twins)
15. Joe Cruz, rhp, Charlotte Stone Crabs (Rays)
16. Diego Moreno, rhp, Bradenton Marauders (Pirates)
17. Francisco Martinez, 3b, Lakeland Tigers
18. Jhan Marinez, rhp, Jupiter Hammerheads (Marlins)
19. Melky Mesa, of, Tampa Yankees
20. Andrew Brackman, rhp, Tampa Yankees

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/rankings/league-top-20-prospects/2010/2610749.html

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Wilmer Flores

Ah, so he does get ranked!

Sandy Alderson for GM!
R.A. Dickey for Governor!

by Russ on Oct 6, 2010 11:25 AM EDT reply actions  

Gotta love BA

.. and I DO, dont get me wrong. They’ve done a lot for baseball over the years. However, they do NOT take these lists seriously- as a list.

If they did Flores wouldn’t be 10th best in a higher league, and off the top 20 in a lower league. They just dont take the “assigning a ranking” and the “numbering” portion of making a list seriously.

Personally, I find it a bit irritating because I say why make a numbered kist at all if you dont care about the actual order?

Deal with the life you’ve got. Solve the problems you have, rather than fantasizing about a life without them.
-Bill James

by casejud on Oct 6, 2010 11:26 AM EDT reply actions  

basically, as far as I can tell

Flores not being ranked in the SAL was either a screwup (as in, they forgot about him) or the guy doing the ranking just has an irrational hatred for the kid. And yes, you’re right in that it looks bad.

by mrkupe on Oct 6, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Cumberland

20th was a little strange too. Until I realized that they just don’t care that much about the list really. Whatever one thinks about Cumberland or Flores they are among the top prospects in thier league. It’s all good though. :)

Shoot, while I’m bitching, isn’t Brackman better than the 20th best prospect in the FSL? I guess that one is at least defensable. I think Id take him over a guy like Diego Moreno maybe. Moreno had a million punch-outs but struggled some at AA and is a little dude.

Deal with the life you’ve got. Solve the problems you have, rather than fantasizing about a life without them.
-Bill James

by casejud on Oct 6, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Jim Callis from his AskBA section:
Hell hath no fury like a Mets fan scorned. Or something like that. We’ve heard from plenty of Mets fans since our SAL Top 20 came out last Thursday and Flores wasn’t included.

Flores played half the season at Savannah, batting .278/.342/.433 at age 18 and as the fourth-youngest regular in the league. He was on some of the earlier versions of the list, but after Bill Ballew talked to more scouts and managers while putting together the Top 20, Flores wound up just missing out.

Flores’ bat is obviously his best tool, but SAL observers knocked the rest of his game. He’s not going to stay at shortstop, and some scouts questioned whether he’d be able to play third base because he has below-average speed and agility. There were concerns about him giving less than full effort at times. Flores spent last year in the SAL as well—he ranked 10th on last year’s Top 20—and it’s possible that SAL observers expected more improvement out of him this year.

Should Flores’ offensive potential outweighed the rest of his game and landed him on the SAL Top 20? When it comes to evaluating prospects, especially at the lower levels of the minors where they have a lot of projection remaining, there are few sure things. You could certainly make a case for Flores versus several players on the list, just as you could make a case for taking those players over him, as we did.

In contrast to our organization rankings and overall Top 100 Prospects list, our minor league Top 20s factor in league context. They’re a narrower look at how a player performed in that league, and scouts and managers in one circuit can view a player differently than others who see him elsewhere. Flores is a perfect case in point, because when our Florida State League Top 20 comes out on Wednesday, he’ll rank 10th.

FSL observers dwelled on Flores’ bat speed and ability to make hard contact more than his shortcomings. They too worried that he might wind up at first base, but they believed more in his offensive promise and didn’t have any concerns about how hard he played.

As for Marte, he wasn’t particularly close to making the SAL Top 20. He showed improvement while repeating the league at age 19 and he still has impressive bat speed and raw power, but he has a long swing and isn’t going to stick at third base. He’s a prospect, but he just wasn’t good enough for a Top 20 in a strong 14-team league.

http://bullpenbanter.com/

by Jeff Reese on Oct 6, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

+1

I’m not a Mets fan (at all) and I don’t get this. The 10th in the FSL rank feels light as well.

by FI2 on Oct 6, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don’t really get the outrage over the Flores issue. Callis pretty much outlined it above; it’s one of their staffer’s opinions mixed in with the opinions of the coaches and scouts who focused on that specific league. Their organizational and especially top 100 lists go through a very different process; the former is still headed by one staffer, but this time factors in much more the opinions of the actual front office of the specific organization (which inherently are going to view their own guys in a different context), while the latter is the only time there’s a true amalgamation and coalescing of all the primary BA guys input. In that sense, I greatly enjoy how BA handles the lists because you get to view guys through different lenses.

As particularly pertains to Flores, the guys in Low-A focused more on his physical projection, which makes sense because that’s still largely what low A prospects are about. The guys at the next level up saw a teenager playing against older competition, and focused more on his precociousness as a hitter. Both are valid views. I personally don’t agree with him not being somewhere in the top 20 of the SAL, but I’d much rather a scout be honest and say he just doesn’t see it with a guy than bow to groupthink; his prerogative, and what he’s supposed to do.

by goldenblack on Oct 6, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

How so? His physical and defensive profile is, for example, almost identical to Miguel Cabrera’s at the same point in his career. If you look at him, see him filling out, and say you don’t think he can stay even at 3B and will have to slide to 1B, that obviously puts a ton of pressure on his bat. So far, he’s shown ok power, but nothing great. Plate discipline still has a lot of polish needed. You still require a ton of projection with his bat to keep him a top level prospect at 1B; it could well happen, and again I personally would’ve had him somewhere in the backhalf of the Sally league, but I don’t have an issue with someone seeing the low-end of his potential spectrum and sticking to their guns.

by goldenblack on Oct 6, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

How so? His physical and defensive profile is, for example, almost identical to Miguel Cabrera’s at the same point in his career.

Completely untrue.

by JD Sussman on Oct 6, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is it totally untrue?

I was 12 in 2003 so I’m not exactly a useful source on this.

But B-R has Cabrera at 6-2, 180 on their MiLB page, and Flores at 6-2, 175. Both played shortstop during their age-18 season. Sounds at least somewhat similar to me.

Baseball is my preferred sport. It should be yours, too.
I'm an editor for Beyond the Box Score, an SB Nation blog.

by Satchel Price on Oct 6, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Both Venezuelan kids that came up at SS in low at age 19, with almost the same build (as listed by Satch above), with the same scouting concerns of a thickening lower build, poor lateral movement and an already substandard speed tool (Cooper just mentioned in the FSL chat that one scout had a 25 speed grade on Wilmer). I think it’s an extremely valid and possible physical projection and path for him; not the only one, but the first that comes to mind for me personally.

by goldenblack on Oct 6, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

bleh, fail, meant to say “came up at SS in low A”.

by goldenblack on Oct 6, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm with goldenblack

Much ado about nothing. Not only is Flores getting lackluster reports on his defense, he’s also getting dinged on future power projection. I think Ballew’s defense of his leaving Flores of the SAL list may have been posted in that league’s thread, but it bears re-posting as it’s explicit and not unreasonable:

  Bill Ballew: Flores has the ability to hit for average and his defense is steady on balls he can reach. The problem is Flores does not run well and has very limited range at a key defensive position. He’s going to need to change positions, and with that position change his limited power will become a bigger negative. Flores is young (he turned 19 in August) and he plays easy with the ability to put the ball in play. In my mind, at least, the sum of his strong tools do not add up to an exceptional player at higher levels.

The power projection seems to be open to debate, as Cooper’s write-up ends by saying that Flores has, " the bat speed and hand-eye coordination to be a plus hitter for both average and power."

We shall see. I will say that the FSL list was far less impressive than the SAL list for me, and FSL managers had exactly the same questions about Flores’ future position. At the very least he’s got enough questions to temper enthusiasm until he answers them.

by blackoutyears on Oct 6, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Some thoughts

-I am a huge Chris Archer fan, but not sure I could take him over Turner. Either way, I like the amount of love he’s getting.
-Flores at #10… I’m just not sure I can see the argument for taking Gose or May over him. I like both (especially Gose), but it takes a lot of balls to take either over Flores.
-Adam Warren has been quite the surprise. I liked him as a senior sign, but had no idea this was coming.
-I guess the FSL wasn’t all that impressed with Brackman’s improvements.

http://bullpenbanter.com/

by Jeff Reese on Oct 6, 2010 11:51 AM EDT reply actions  

May

could really take off within the next two years. Great build, and great stuff. I try not to get too attached to young pitchers, but he’s potentially very special.

by blackoutyears on Oct 6, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

he did take a solid step forward

after moving back. granted, he needs to improve still, but if his latest K-rate drop is real, it will help his chances a lot.

by auclairkeithbc on Oct 7, 2010 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

it’s hard to get a handle on him because of the struggles at the more advanced level and the obvious comfort and attendant improvement in performance following demotion. And that’s why I say ‘the next two years’. I think this is a matter of a young power pitcher learning to harness his stuff, and that doesn’t necessarily happen over night. If/when the light goes off, watch out.

by blackoutyears on Oct 7, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think that he has yet

The walk numbers looked better in the SAL, but when I saw him there, his ability to locate his pitches was pretty damn inconsistent. Mike Newman said this about the start he saw of his:

5. Trevor May, SP, Phillies – In Greenville, May threw arguably the ugliest six scoreless I’ve seen at the level. He still has the body and arm strength to be a very impressive prospect, but his mechanics are limiting what he’s able to do. Additionally, I was able to spot the change in his motion every time he threw a curveball through a three inch view finder. May is still very much a work in progress.

I’m wondering how much the less advanced hitters helped his walk numbers.

http://bullpenbanter.com/

by Jeff Reese on Oct 7, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

And that

sounds like a typical game report on a struggling young power pitcher. Let’s just say that If he was 24 I’d be a lot more concerned. lol

Newman does a great job. Scouting the Sally is a great resource.

by blackoutyears on Oct 8, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, he certainly has a ceiling to dream on

He just needs to take a big step forward to reach it.

http://bullpenbanter.com/

by Jeff Reese on Oct 8, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Daniel Fields

I may be a fan boy, but I’d slot him in around 12 on this list. I’d move Brett Jackson up as well.

by gogotabata on Oct 6, 2010 12:07 PM EDT reply actions  

he's criminally underrated

the guy made his pro debut at High-A as a 19 year-old and held his own in a notorious pitcher’s league (.240/.343/.371)…he also is by all accounts a fine athlete will five-tool potential who plays a semi-premium position (CF)…looks to me like a huge sleeper heading into next year

by milkmanmax on Oct 6, 2010 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like Fields, too.

He’s a breakout candidate for 2011, for sure.

Baseball is my preferred sport. It should be yours, too.
I'm an editor for Beyond the Box Score, an SB Nation blog.

by Satchel Price on Oct 6, 2010 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Diego Moreno

I don’t have the general knowledge to make any comments about the list as a whole, but as a Pirates’ fan, I have a lot of trouble with Diego Moreno being on the list while guys like Starling Marte, Bryan Morris, and Jeff Locke are left off. I can’t imagine BA talked to a bunch of people who said, “Well, despite the fact that Morris is younger than Moreno, has more pitches, performed just as well, and is a starter, I still like Moreno better.”

by epoc on Oct 6, 2010 12:09 PM EDT reply actions  

Locke

Cooper and Callis have both knocked Locke as a “four-pitch, none of them plus” guy in separate remarks, so apparently that’s the BA book on him. I assume that that’s what scouts and managers are telling them. I will say that Locke’s numbers were pretty suh-weet all year; he was essentially the same pitcher statistically after his promotion to Double-A, which speaks to his approach and pitchability. I’m very interested to see if he and Owens (and Morris and Turner of course) can contribute at the major league level next year. The Pyrites could stand to turn over the rotation a bit while they’re waiting on the youth brigade (Taillon, Allie, ZVR, Hernandez, etc.) to arrive.

by blackoutyears on Oct 6, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Honestly surprised at no Joel Carreno

Guessing his age counts against him a little but he was probably one of the top 3 pitchers in the FSL all season. Sure he gave up a few too many hits but that is hardly just down to his pitching.

FIP-2.36
K/9-11.31
K/BB-5.77/1

by TtD on Oct 6, 2010 1:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Putting up good pitching statistics

means almost nothing below AA. A guy with a long relief ceiling but decent polish can put up monster numbers against undisciplined hitters.

by OldDutchPots on Oct 6, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

True enough

But that kind of control and pitch versatility has to get some respect. Low 90s fastball and good breaking pitches is a handy combination and he only got stronger as the year went on. Guess it would depend whether you’d rate a more polished potential #4 starter over a raw prospect with #2 ceiling and I have no idea what judging method BA are using.

by TtD on Oct 6, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just to throw an example up

Personally I think Carreno is more likely to be a SP at the MLB level than Alvarez, I don’t much like Alvarez in terms of his stamina and mental makeup, and while he could be a #2 starter with major improvement I expect him to fall into the setup man role in the Jays pen in two or three years. Carreno also needs to develop his variation, and maybe add an extra pitch, but as is i’d happily take him as a passable filler in the Jays rotation in 2011 should there be a need for a spot start. Carreno is maybe #8 on the pitching depth chart for the Jays, i’d have Alvarez at #11 at a push.

by TtD on Oct 6, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would say

it means considerably more than putting up terrible statistics below AA.

by gghulsebus on Oct 6, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fine

But I’d rather have a guy putting up terrible numbers who gets good reports from scouts than vice versa.

http://bullpenbanter.com/

by Jeff Reese on Oct 6, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hmm...

I realize preference is given to performance in the league over prospect status, but no way am I taking Tony Sanchez over Brett Jackson. I don’t understand how you can justify that… not by scouting, stats, projections, etc…

by alskor on Oct 6, 2010 3:00 PM EDT reply actions  

+1

just to show I’m not a total homer, I’m probably not taking Archer over Turner either

by PrincetonCubs on Oct 6, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

Brett Jackson would be 4th for me.

http://bullpenbanter.com/

by Jeff Reese on Oct 6, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Really?

You can’t understand how a catcher with a .314/.416/.454 line would rank ahead of a CF with a .316/.420/.517 line? Not like Jackson is much younger either, about 2.5 months. I could go either way on it, but if league observers are really high on Sanchez as a defender at the C spot, I can certainly see the reasoning behind it. Why do you think its so unreasonable?

by nixa37 on Oct 6, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Jackson is a much superior prospect. Never been much of a Sanchez fan

I don’t think any part of Sanchez’s game other than defense projects as plus, and he’s been pretty crappy defensively, even before the injuries. And – oh yeah, the injuries. I think Jackson has a very good chance to be an impact prospect. I think Sanchez has a very good chance of becoming Jason Castro (blah). They really aren’t that close for me, though I do consider Sanchez a good prospect.

Beyond that, solely on the basis of how they performed in their time in the FSL (which apparently counts a whole lot for BA), I don’t think you can justify Sanchez and his 8 errors, 4 passed balls, and 15% CS rate on 62 attempts in 40 games at catcher as having been superior to Jackson, who outhit him by a not insignificant margin, also played a premium position and actually played it well, didn’t get hurt and played more games in the FSL.

Better projection & better performance. I can’t understand the decision at all. Just more BA inconsistency, as far as I’m concerned.

Let me ask you this – do you think Jackson or Sanchez will be listed higher on their top 100?

by alskor on Oct 6, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Sanchez's plate discipline is quite good as well

Plus Jackson’s strikeouts scare me a good bit. I’d probably lean Jackson and I expect him to slot a little higher in the top 100, but I can certainly understand the justification for putting a C with comparable numbers ahead of a CF when both are of a similar age. If there were a significant gap in where they were ranked I could see the issue, but they were one spot apart.

by nixa37 on Oct 6, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sure.

For me, Jackson would be a good bit higher than that on this list even… and I suppose that’s part of the problem.

I also expect Jackson to be significantly ahead of Sanchez on my top 100. I’m thinking 30 spots plus…maybe more.

by alskor on Oct 6, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

You said you don't understand how you can justify it

I think its pretty clear how it can be justified when you consider the similarities in performance and age and Sanchez’s big advantage in position. Jackson might have the edge in plus tools, but he also has an issue with contact that could become bigger and bigger as he moves up. I don’t see any similar problem that might keep Sanchez from at least being serviceable at the MLB level.

by nixa37 on Oct 6, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not to mention

this is an argument over one guy being at #6, and one guy being at #7. Who. Cares?

by blackoutyears on Oct 6, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not exactly.

IMO, Sanchez should be 4-5 spots lower and Jackson 3-4 spots higher.

by alskor on Oct 6, 2010 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

But then

you have much larger issues with the list that you’re trying to fold into an argument over two guys.

by blackoutyears on Oct 7, 2010 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fair enough

It just really stands out to me as egregious. Sometimes I see these and think “well, they’re putting a lot of weight on what the guy did while he was in this league.” Jackson was better across the board, better on offense and defense, played more game and Sanchez had a season ending injury.

by alskor on Oct 7, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

He also plays a far less premium position

The only way he should rank ahead of him is if he’s better across the board.

by nixa37 on Oct 7, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like Jackson better I guess

but it’s nothing empirical and I tend to lean toward the idea that an average to above average every day catcher is such a commodity that other prospects have to be truly head and shoulders above to eclipse that. I guess I’d be a lot more worried if the write-ups were misrepresenting the players than where they fall on some ranking. The scouting reports are the value here, while rankings are just pointless debate fodder. Mission accomplished! lol

by blackoutyears on Oct 8, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well that was pretty much at his floor

If he reaches his potential he could be a high OBP bat with solid power at the most premium position on the field.

by nixa37 on Oct 6, 2010 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Depends on position for me

A “serviceable” catcher is a different animal than a “serviceable” OF, even a CF. Any time you can develop an every day catcher you’ve beat some pretty steep odds.

by blackoutyears on Oct 7, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's not totally unreasonable.

But there are a few things worth noting:

- Jackson is a plus defender in center according to most, and he should provide value on the basepaths as well. It’s not clear what kind of defender Sanchez is going to be.

- Jackson maintained solid performance in Double-A while Sanchez hasn’t reached that level yet

- Sanchez played only 59 games this year because he got hit in the face by a pitch. I’d argue that you should put more weight into 128 games of Jackson than 59 games of Sanchez.

I understand that these lists emphasize in-league performance, which is dumb by the way, but I think Jackson has clearly put himself ahead of Sanchez.

Baseball is my preferred sport. It should be yours, too.
I'm an editor for Beyond the Box Score, an SB Nation blog.

by Satchel Price on Oct 6, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Response

In terms of defense, I’ll defer to the scouts and coaches in the FSL on this one. They’ve actually seen both guys play a good bit while I haven’t and BA obviously listens to them when it comes to this list.

The AA performance is irrelevant for this list as its based solely on FSL performance. Jackson’s AA performance also didn’t do a whole lot to help him in my eyes as the strikeouts started looking like a bigger problem.

Again, we’re only looking at this from the FSL perspective, so the fact that Jackson played another 61 games in another league is irrelevant. Jackson played 8 more games than Sanchez in the FSL. I don’t think Jackson’s FSL performance deserves significantly more weight.

I don’t understand why people have an issue with the lists being based solely on the performance in the league. They have the top 100 for performance across leagues and the league top 20s for performance within each league. As long as you know what’s going on with these rankings, I don’t understand the issue with how its done. Its just a different look at these prospects, which I actually prefer over what would essentially be a top 100 list divvied up.

by nixa37 on Oct 6, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, then we're just talking about different things

I’m coming to really dislike these BA league lists. They make no sense to me. Why would you rank prospects in any order other than their prospect quality? How do we gain any knowledge at all from ranking guys based on their in-league performance rather than their entire body of work and their prospect status in general?

Honestly, you’re a smart guy so I’ll ask you: what do you think that we really gain from having this kind of approach rather than simply ranking them as prospects?

Baseball is my preferred sport. It should be yours, too.
I'm an editor for Beyond the Box Score, an SB Nation blog.

by Satchel Price on Oct 6, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Also, why are the K's such a big issue?

He struck out 20.1% of the time in High Single-A and 23.5% of the time in Double-A… those numbers aren’t that bad. It’s not good, but I wouldn’t consider it a big red flag.

Baseball is my preferred sport. It should be yours, too.
I'm an editor for Beyond the Box Score, an SB Nation blog.

by Satchel Price on Oct 6, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Didn't say they were a big issue

They could be a possible problem. They’re a yellow flag if you will. They put a lot more pressure on him to keep the walks and the power up. If those things fall off some as he moves up the ladder, I could easily see him turning into a .260/.335/.400 type player even if the strikeouts stay exactly where they were in AA.

by nixa37 on Oct 6, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

We get to see what certain subsets of people thought about them

I’m interested in the differences between how onlookers in different leagues saw guys. We get so used to focusing almost solely on consensus opinions here that its nice to here some different takes that we haven’t heard before. For example, I’m interested that SAL observers thought Flores was almost certainly destined for 1B and that they thought he didn’t seem all that interested at times. Those are things that are going to make me keep an eye on him that I might not have if I only heard the “consensus” opinions on him. Basically, the lists serve as a cross check on each other. If there is a divergent opinion, it forces us to try and understand why, possibly helping us learn more in the process.

by nixa37 on Oct 6, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

scoutingthesally

Didn’t he give a report that Flores, when he was slumping, really slumped hard and looked out of whack? This may be why he looked like he wasn’t trying.

I’m not sure why slow foot speed should make much difference at 3rd. he supposedly has soft hands.

My gut is that maybe a few managers or scouts cautionary words were blown out of proportion by the BA guy doing the SAL list. Leaving Flores off has the feeling of a bit of a statement from that guy. The process doesn’t sound all that organized. Not a big deal to me, but i’d be shocked that Flores isn’t better over his career than at least half the guys on that list if not more.

by wobatus on Oct 6, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

The league lists

are a hell of a lot better than the organizational top 10s. They let Adam Rubin do the Mets top 10 last year if I recall.

by wobatus on Oct 6, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Question ... Lets say Alex Wimmers qualified

where would he rank? (he was a 2010 draftee)

How about OF Joe Benson? ( i think he played about 1/3 of the year here in FSL)

I called it - Joe Mauer's first career Home-Run at Target Field !!!

Why Oh Why did the D'Backs select A.J. Pollock over Mike Trout?

by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Oct 6, 2010 5:26 PM EDT reply actions  

Assuming I couldn't shift anybody on the list around

Wimmers would be 8th. Benson probably 12th or 13th.

by mrkupe on Oct 6, 2010 7:57 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

A few names I saw listed in that range

Cody Scarpetta- #25-30 range(Cooper did say the difference from #18 to #25 wasn’t that drastic)
Brad Hand- in the mix around #30
Tim Beckham- wouldn’t have made the top 30
Wily Peralta- close to the top 20
Starling Marte- just missed
Corban Joseph- #31-40
Justin DeFratus- hard to pick between him, Moreno, and Marinez
Chad Jenkins- #25-30 range

http://bullpenbanter.com

by gatling on Oct 6, 2010 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's getting harder and harder to defend Tim Beckham

He’s just not making any of the progress that you’d hope for from a prospect of his caliber.

The improved walk rate was nice, but he didn’t improve his K rate at all, his power was still middling at best, his base-stealing efficiency was still quite poor, and we didn’t hear particularly positive scouting reports all year. Hard to say that he’s been anything but disappointing so far.

Baseball is my preferred sport. It should be yours, too.
I'm an editor for Beyond the Box Score, an SB Nation blog.

by Satchel Price on Oct 7, 2010 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Since PP has taken a beating recently

it’s worth pointing out that they were one of the first places I saw the opinion that Beckham would never be a major league SS.

by blackoutyears on Oct 8, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

True, it hasn't looked good

I wonder how we’d view him if he had repeated Low A this year like Aaron Hicks did. Unfortunately we can’t use the MLE calculator on minorleaguesplits to see what Beckham’s line would have looked like in the MWL this year. I think he definitely made some strides this year though. The walk rate nearly doubled, which is impressive on it’s own, but even more so seeing as how he moved to an even more pitcher friendly league. His K rate didn’t improve, but if you run the K/PA numbers it only went up four tenths of a percent(21.6% to 22%). His SB% is still poor but it did improve this year.

I’m not trying to make excuses for the kid or anything, his stock is definitely down again this year. But it was still just his second full year in pro ball, so I just wouldn’t be too quick to write him off. I’d say send him back to the FSL next year and if he doesn’t make progress then it’s time to get really worried.

http://bullpenbanter.com

by gatling on Oct 7, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, I'm not writing him off yet. You don't write off overall No. 1 picks because of two relatively disappointing seasons

But right now, I don’t know if you can really project him as a quality regular in the big leagues. And that just isn’t what you want from a No. 1 pick, even though we all knew that it was somewhat risky taking a HS shortstop.

Baseball is my preferred sport. It should be yours, too.
I'm an editor for Beyond the Box Score, an SB Nation blog.

by Satchel Price on Oct 8, 2010 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Peralta

seemed to be the most interesting “just missed” name, and the reports of the FB are promising as he’s still popping mid-90s as past reports indicate. I wish Cooper had gone into more detail on Scarpetta, but I guess we’ll just have to wait for the team Top 30s and some MIL blogs to break down his 2010 and OFP.

by blackoutyears on Oct 7, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

thanks

I’m surprised that Erik Komatsu wasn’t in there. I wonder if its a stature thing. That might make an interesting discussion question for the blog.

by JetSam on Oct 7, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

No problem

I figured Scarpetta and Peralta might have been of the most interest to you, but I figured I’d list the others I saw in the chat too.

http://bullpenbanter.com

by gatling on Oct 7, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

List from 5 years ago

*1. Andy LaRoche, 3b, Vero Beach
*2. Justin Verlander, rhp, Lakeland
*3. Lastings Milledge, of, St. Lucie
*4. Jason Vargas, lhp, Jupiter
*5. Matt Kemp, of, Vero Beach
6. Matt Moses, 3b, Fort Myers
*7. Denard Span, of, Fort Myers
8. Justin Orenduff, rhp, Vero Beach
*9. David Purcey, lhp, Dunedin
*10. Jordan Tata, rhp, Lakeland
*11. Tony Abreu, 2b, Vero Beach
*12. Chin-Lung Hu, ss, Vero Beach
*13. Adam Lind, of, Dunedin
*14. Brent Clevlen, of, Lakeland
*15. Scott Moore, 3b, Daytona
16. Adam Harben, rhp, Fort Myers
17. Chuck Tiffany, lhp, Vero Beach
*18. Brian Dopirak, 1b, Daytona
19. Tim Moss, 2b, Clearwater
*20. Philip Humber, rhp, St. Lucie
*Has played in major leagues

http://bullpenbanter.com

by gatling on Oct 7, 2010 12:26 AM EDT reply actions  

I wouldn’t be suprised if Andy LaRoche isn’t cut loose or traded cheap by the Pirates. He hit like crazy in an early season series I saw. I’d think that Hu gets another shot at SS by someone. Astros?

by JetSam on Oct 7, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, Hu could probably get a shot somewhere

The power is always going to be borderline non-existent, but he’s got good contact skills, some speed and a solid glove at shortstop- guys have had good careers with a similar skill set. He turns 27 next year so obviously it’s getting to that point where he’s gotta get a shot, but I wonder if they’d go with Hu before seeing what Ivan DeJesus Jr. can do.

He could be an interesting shot to take for a team with little shortstop talent, like Baltimore, Pittsburgh, or as you mentioned, Houston.

Baseball is my preferred sport. It should be yours, too.
I'm an editor for Beyond the Box Score, an SB Nation blog.

by Satchel Price on Oct 8, 2010 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

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