mrkupe anticlimatically posts his Blue Jays top 22 list.
The background: A few days ago, in response to the deluge of top 20 lists for the Royals and Mariners, I stated that I would do a list on-demand for a team that had not yet received a top 20 treatment in recent times. Humbled Fan asked for the Blue Jays, and seeing as I repeatedly crapped on Blue Jays fans for their mythical $16 million draft budget, I decided that I needed to make amends and do a good deed for them. Of course, this had a side effect: everybody and their mother then realized that nobody had done a Toronto Blue Jays top 20 prospects list, and as one of my role models in life once noted, boom goes the dynamite. So now, instead of treating you all to a bunch of awe-inspiring observations about a team that you haven't read about too much lately, you're getting a list of players that you've already read about like 5 times in the last few days. All I can say is that I'm going to be a man about it and ask you to blame Humbled Fan, which seems entirely reasonable and fair to me. That being said, part of being a man means that I have to live up to my word, so here's my list of the top 20 Blue Jays prospects going into the off-season, complete with comments and a couple of bonus dudes that I felt like writing about. Other people gave some better explanations of just who the players are (I bet you didn't know that Kyle Drabek throws hard, did you?), so I'll link you to TwosEyesForAnEye's list. It's a good post, but he handles his posts a bit differently than I do. I'll be upfront and note that I expect you to already know who I'm talking about, and my comments tend to focus on why I do/don't like Prospect X. As a final note before jumping in, I'll also note that I still don't know what's good for me and therefore I will take requests for ANOTHER team here, to be posted in a new post in several days' time. The criteria is the same as before - find me a team that hasn't been given the top 20 treatment here, I'll select one and I'll go to work.
General comments on the system: Certainly looking up, just a lot of uncertainty towards the bottom of the list, which is to be expected with a big draft haul. For the moment we don't have big sample sizes so for me, it's a matter of going off of guys who I liked going into the draft and some preliminary findings off of small sample sizes. Drabek is a perfectly legitimate No. 1 prospect, a good example of why you can't freak out too much over the numbers . . .sometimes prospects are just working on different things and it's good to see prospects who understand the big picture and focus on the process rather than the immediate results. You've got a nice blend of safety and upside towards the upper half of this system, with Perez and Sanchez being guys who could see big jumps in the overall prospecting scene next year. Then you've got some lottery tickets in Alvarez, Hechavarria, and Arencibia, players with above-average potential at the major league level but who are more likely to end up as fringe major leaguers or in reserve roles. The second half of the list is, as I said, kind of a crapshoot as we just don't have enough pro data to make strong conclusions; the important thing to me is that I got all the names of guys that I think have a shot at making some noise, in the order in which I like said guys. It's hard not to see this list looking very differently by this time next year; such is life when you inject a ton of amatuer talent in an otherwise relatively barren system. But if you'd like my personal favorite, I'll tell you right now that Griffin Murphy could make a huge jump in the next year.
Anyways. Time to get to the list!
1) Kyle Drabek, RHP - No complaining about this one; the stuff is well above-average and this kind of makeup always plays at the major league level. He has frontline starter potential, but even if he doesn't quite realize all of it he's going to stay relevant in the major leagues for a long time. In a system full of intriguing guys with questions, Drabek edges ahead of his competition to grab the top spot.
2) Deck McGuire, RHP - I'm not enamored of his upside and I'll admit to clearly preferring Alex Wimmers among 2010 draftees who lack truly killer stuff, but McGuire is a safe bet to make it to the major league team within the next couple of years and make a meaningful contribution. Relatively known quantities like this in a system make it much easier to build for future success.
3) Travis D'arnaud, C - I have to say that it really sucks that D'arnaud got hurt. If he had played a full season with good health, he could have easily been the No. 2 or even the No. 1 prospect in this system. He has the raw tools to be an excellent major league player, but there's a decent chance that he's "only" a solid regular, and I hate seeing minor league catchers missing significant time due to injury, as they already have enough crap to deal with. Still, before the injuries wore him down and finally out, he was showing signs of a major breakout. We'll see where he goes from here.
4) Zach Stewart, RHP - Baseball America aside, I like Stewart. Sinkerballers are to pitchers as catchers are to position players - they take longer to develop and improvements in their games don't always show up immediately in the numbers. It wouldn't shock me if Stewart pitched better in the majors next year (were the Jays so inclined) than he did this year in NH. I don't think he has elite level upside, but I think he'll provide a number of years of very respectable value in one capacity or another. If the Jays decide they like him more in the pen, that's just fine - his stuff would play even better there.
5) Anthony Gose, OF - Some may describe this as "aggressive", but I don't think this way at all, and I'll explain why. The raw tools are just plain awesome - it's rare that you get a player with this many plus grades, as Gose gets plus-if-not-better marks for defensive instincts, range, and speed. But the bat isn't too shabby either, as Gose showed a clear uptick in power production and drew more walks this year despite moving to the Florida State League. He's going to need some time to refine his overall approach and hopefully the Jays recognize that, but this is a player who is clearly moving in the right direction to be an above-average major league regular. All Star potential and a floor that's better than you might initially think, sign me up.
6) Jacob Marisnick, OF - He was super raw coming out of high school and looked great in the GCL this year, so he gets a pass for that forgettable Midwest League stint. The raw potential to be an impact major leaguer is here and he's made some major strides in the last year, but there's just a bit too much bust potential here still for me to go higher than this for the moment. Next year is especially important for Marisnick - he could become one of the better prospects in all of baeball, or he could be just barely holding on to a spot in the top 20 if he can't turn the tools into production in a full season league. He's below Gose for me because Gose has gotten the job done in full season ball and because Gose offers more with the glove.
7) Carlos Perez, C - This guy seems to be all the rage right now, and I've seen him as high as No. 2 in some rankings. I can respect that point of view, I just don't agree with it; this system is too good for a talented-but-still-unseasoned catcher in the short-season leagues to rate that highly. Full season leagues are an entirely different animal, especially so for a catcher who has to endure a much more rigorous schedule. I'm certainly excited about the upside here, and I think his ranking reflects that, but I'm not thinking twice about taking any of the guys ahead of Perez on this list before I take him.
8) Aaron Sanchez, RHP - I'll be totally upfront in saying that I love Aaron Sanchez. Some of you might not have him this high, but he's got the raw talent to be an excellent major league pitcher. Let's start off with a fastball that would already get a good major league grade, and add in a generous heaping of projection that could bump his fastball into the elite range. Then let's add a nice breaking ball into the equation, and we're talking about a big time power arm. He's a bit raw so the Jays would definitely benefit from a conservative track to let the command come along and to let projection take its natural course, but I'm high on Sanchez.
9) Eric Thames, OF - I like Thames but don't love him. In terms of raw production there's little to complain about, as he's hit extremely well as a pro, and I think the raw tools are there for that to continue forward. That being said, there's a couple of red flags for me: he's limited defensively, and he doesn't hit left-handed pitching very well. I'll also be interested to see how his average holds up at higher levels. I think he'll be a useful piece, but I'm not yet sure as to whether it will be as the new Raul Ibanez or as "just" a quality bench player. Players like Thames are among the trickiest for me to assess - on the one hand you want to recognize the value that a relatively safe bat like this can provide, but at the same time it's just not very wise to get too excited - after all, the reasonable upside estimate here is league average platoon left fielder.
10) Asher Wojciechowski, RHP - I am pretty skeptical that Woj is really a starter in the long-term, as I think his stuff just plays better as a late-inning relief type. Nonetheless, I would be completely okay with that, and I do think that he's raw enough to the point where having him start for a couple of years to develop his repertoire is a worthwhile venture. The fastball velocity is excellent and the breaking ball is good too, so there's clearly impact potential here, and I'll be very interested to see where his first full pro season will take him.
11) Henderson Alvarez, RHP - Alvarez is one of those players who confuses me. The raw stuff is quite good, but I'm always a bit concerned about "throwers" who don't miss bats in the lower minors. The majority of players in the low minors can't deal with consistent low-mid 90s fastballs backed up by even fringe secondaries, and when a pitcher gets hit like Alvarez did this year, concern is warranted. Still, he's a relatively inexperienced pitcher who has time to improve, and there's a degree of safety associated with him that players who rate below him in the Jays system don't quite have. And if nothing else, he's throwing strikes, and that's something you can build on even if the end result doesn't necessarily result in an ace.
12) Adeiny Hechavarria, SS - I have very mixed feelings about Hechavarria. Legitimate shortstops who project to the major league level are the rarest of commodities, and Hechavarria fits that profile. The problem is that I just don't buy the bat at all. While he is relatively inexperienced, he hasn't yet shown even the slightest trace of secondary skills that project to being an average starting player in the major leagues. He still has time to grow as a player, but right now I feel more comfortable projecting him as a utility player who may surprise. When we're talking about a player who has legitimate major league tools to play shortstop at this point of the list, that to me just emphasizes how strong this system is.
13) J.P. Arencibia, C - I'm sure this one will catch some flak, but I'm okay with that. No doubt Arencibia made progress this year as a player, but to me that just raised him from "AAAA player" to "most likely a respectable major league backup". Lost in his offensive explosion this year is that he did the bulk of his damage in a six week span, and while production is production, it just emphaizes the fact that Arencibia is an extremely streaky player. Guys like this drive teams nuts when they're slotted in as regulars. I think he's a major league player in the end, but I see him more as a guy who can play a few times a week as a quality backup at catcher and first base, with the raw power to take advantage of pitchers who make mistakes against a player they're not familiar with. That's a sneaky-good contributor in the making.
14) Griffin Murphy, LHP - I don't get why this guy doesn't get more love. High 80s fastball from the left side that touches 93 MPH? The makings of excellent command? Good secondaries? Room to fill out? Try all of the above. I thought he was a steal for the Jays, even if they had to wait a while to get him signed up. Maybe other people forgot about him due to the late sign, maybe people just built their lists off of other lists that they saw, I don't know. All I know is that Murphy's a guy to keep an eye on, and I didn't forget about him.
15) Brad Emaus, 2B/3B - I have no clue where this guy is going to play, but he brings a respectable bat with good secondary skills to the table. If he keeps hitting, he's going to earn himself a chance somewhere on a major league field. The upside isn't as pronounced as it is with many of the other players in this system because he's got to answer the question of where he's going to play on the field, but he gets credit where credit is due.
16) Noah Syndergaard, RHP - I tend to be a bit wary of preps who see a late jump in their stuff as the draft approaches, but the upside here is very attractive. I wouldn't put him ahead of Murphy because the raw stuff isn't that much better and Murphy has an actual three pitch mix and some polish, but Syndergaard is a good name to watch. If he can keep his velocity bump from last draft season and show off that breaker, he could certainly post some saber-friendly strikeout numbers. On the other hand, he's also rather risky for me, so I think this placement reflects both the good and the bad.
17) Chad Jenkins, RHP - I guess Jenkins has a higher floor than a number of the players on this list, but there's just nothing here that makes me think he's more than a fringy starter at the major league level. Having had college experience to put his stuff together, it was pretty disconcerting to see him get hit up so much this year, crappy defense or not. Maybe he plays up into a No. 4 starter, but considering we haven't even seen him against Double A competition yet even that is a gamble for me. Guys like this often see their peripherals go down the drain once they hit AA. For the moment, I'm going to take caution on a guy who isn't going to be missed if he doesn't make it and won't distinguish himself if he does. I think I'm being relatively kind in giving him this much slack, but I suppose he is only one year out of school.
18) Dickie Thon Jr., SS - He might not end up at shortstop, but even the possibility of playing there gets him some notice, and I'm a big fan of bloodlines and of Puerto Rican prospects (who always seem to be at least a tad undervalued). I can't put him any higher than this until we see how he really stacks up against the competition and until we have a better feel for where he's going to slot defensively, but the boy's got some tools and that's something we can work with.
19) Kellen Sweeney, 3B - I really like Sweeney's bat and it's great to see a kid from a cold weather background with such a good feel for the zone early in his career. The reason he's here is because I want to see more on his defense and power development. It's not lost on me that his brother showed a great early feel for hitting but with minimal later development, and I don't believe that Kellen will provide as much defensive value as Ryan. I'd expect Sweeney to rate a bit higher than this by this time next year, but until we see a bit more out of him, this is a fine position for him to come in at.
20) Drew Hutchison, RHP - Hutchison isn't a big upside guy, but guys who are skilled enough at throwing strikes and changing speeds to put up good looking numbers are worth a look, and they're worth a bit more than that when they're still inexperienced. He's going to have to add a bit more oomph and keep up the good work to project as any more than a mid-rotation starter, but he's earned my attention for all the right reasons so far.
20) Justin Nicolino, LHP - This guy is a project, but I'm favorable to a lefty with a feel for a changeup and a good chance of adding on at least a little velocity. Nicolino has been watched by scouts for a while now so there might be a little "buyer fatigue" on him, and if the Jays put him on a slow development track I think they might just have themselves a respectable southpaw option a few years down the road. Patience needed here. In a lot of ways, he's kind of similar to a LH version of Hutchison, save that Hutchison has some actual pro performance under his belt.
21) Marcus Knecht, OF - Project player who will be 3.5 months from turning 21 at the start of the season, and one with iffy defensive value at the bottom of the spectrum. The raw tools to be a solid everyday player are here, but guys like this are among my least favorite types of prospects - they're very risky, and even if you win the gamble, you still end up with a bat-only defensive liability.
The next slew of guys on would include OF Moises Sierra (needs to get healthy with bat in tow), 3B Christopher Hawkins (awesome tools, just a major project), C A.J. Jimenez (catchers with plate discipline this bad are persona non grata for me), and a variety of upper level fringy control artists who might eat some innings in the majors here and there.
So for those of you still reading, the overall list is:
- Kyle Drabek, RHP
- Deck McGuire, RHP
- Travis D'arnaud, C
- Zach Stewart, RHP
- Anthony Gose, OF
- Jacob Marisnick, OF
- Carlos Perez, C
- Aaron Sanchez, RHP
- Eric Thames, OF
- Asher Wojciechowski, RHP
- Henderson Alvarez, RHP
- Adeinys Hechavarria, SS
- J.P. Arencibia, C
- Griffin Murphy, LHP
- Brad Emaus, 2B/3B
- Noah Syndergaard, RHP
- Chad Jenkins, RHP
- Dickie Thon, Jr., SS
- Kellen Sweeney, 3B
- Drew Hutchinson, RHP
- Justin Nicolino, LHP
- Marcus Knecht, OF
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correct
Talented, but so raw. Could be a major league player. Might end up never getting out of A ball.
His improvement over the summer was massive
Saw him a few times this year. First time, swung at anything but he improved his eye greatly and the last time I saw him play he ripped a laser oppo field for a triple. I see plus speed out of him right now and a great arm…
we'll see
There’s something to be said for first-person bias (“I saw this, therefore he is this”), but he did improve. If he can do some interesting things in Lansing next year, he’ll be here in 2011. For the moment, I’d prefer to hold. Guys like Pierre are sometimes really awesome . . .but more often than not, they really don’t do much of anything, and considering his early track record, I’m okay with waiting for stronger signs of development.
Will read through later (probably Monday)
But I can say I do love where you place d’Arnaud. I think he’s the best catching prospect in this system as well.
http://bullpenbanter.com/
Alvarez
I’m starting to wonder about Alvarez as well. I loved what I saw in the glimpse I got in the Futures Game, but the season-long sample gives pause. Under-sized guy who throws hard but gets hit sounds like he could be as much Ramon Ortiz (starter) or Juan Cruz (reliever) as anyone particularly impactful.
Great list
Very insightful remarks and provided a very balanced perspective to some of the other lists that have been posted on this site. I definitely like your high ranking of Gose, the kid has some serious potential.
Spot on
This is very similar to what mine would be.
You’ve captured my thoughts on Arencibia pretty perfectly. To me he’s a decent backup right now. I’m not really buying into what he did this season.
-1 and only member of the Nick Weglarz fan club!
John Buck is a decent comp for JPA, IMO...
Loads of power, so-so behind the dish, inconsistent contact.
Gose...
I disagree with the ranking, but I can see why you’d rank him there.
Perez is a little low at No. 7, IMO…I like the aggressive rankings of Sanchez and Wojciechowski, though I’d actually move Murphy right up into that group.
And I do disagree with the Arencibia ranking. He walked more last year and improved his contact rate in the process. The .312 BABIP seems to be right in line with where he should be at Triple-A. He hits a ton of balls in the air, so his power production isn’t a huge surprise, though I’m sure the number of fly balls that actually left the yard will regress back to his normal levels in the future.
He may be streaky, but he was great over the final 2.5 months of the year, not just six weeks.
June – .400/.448/.842/ 1.290
July – .290/.347/.682/1.029
August – .289/.400/.556/.956
In addition, it wasn’t like he was awful in April (.803 OPS) and May (.778 OPS).
That’s not to say Arencibia wasn’t playing over his head last year. However, at a position where you can be a top-5 offensive player with an OPS of .830, it’s hard for me to see how he’s the 13th best prospect in Toronto’s system.
Other than that, I’m pretty cool with everything else. Gose and Arencibia are my main hang-ups. Any other complaints would just be me nitpicking.
arencibia
The numbers were up in the minors, but he got to play in Vegas last year and when he got to the majors this year, he looked like the guy we’ve seen for the last few years, not an uber-slugger in the making. The ranking reflects my future projected role for him to a greater extent than it would for a younger player . . .I think he fits best as a C/1B backup and mistake hitter, and I’d love to give him 250-300 ABs a year to see what he can do with it. I just also think that playing him too much might expose him.
Perez I talked at length about below. On pure talent, he might be a little low . . .but I’m a little gunshy with catchers.
Personally I’d love to rank Murphy higher, but I’d rather play it safe and acknowledge how much I like him while ranking him a bit conservatively for the moment than buy wholesale into my gut instinct without good reason and rank him too aggressively purely for the sake of discussion. He had a few bouts last year with spotty command and while I believe it’ll be there in the end, I’d like to see how it translates. I want pro data. Not sure where he’s headed for this year as he didn’t pitch at all in the pros in 2010 . . .Lansing might be a bit aggressive.
by mrkupe on Oct 25, 2010 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
re:
He did get to play in Las Vegas, but his road OPS was much better than his home performance:
At Home – .276/.343/.581/.924
On Road – .328/.378/.677/1.055
And that includes most of the pitcher friendly parks in the PCL.
As for his performance in the Majors, we’re talking maybe ten games split up into two different parts of the season. So I can’t put much weight into his performance there.
I think if he can stick at catcher, he should at least give you average production at the position. I’m not saying he has to be a top-5 guy, but I can’t see him as the 13th best prospect in Toronto’s system.
by Alex Eisenberg on Oct 25, 2010 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
And that includes most of the pitcher friendly parks in the PCL.
…and all the other ridiculously hitter friendly parks that mostly make up the rest of that very hitter friendly league, too, right?
Bullpen Banter
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sure...
but let’s not box the PCL into a one size fits all league. There are plenty of parks that would be pitcher-friendly in any other league. Tacoma, New Orleans, Sacramento, Portland, and to a lesser extent Round Rock are all teams that play in pitcher-friendly ballparks.
by Alex Eisenberg on Oct 26, 2010 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions
sorry, I wasn't clear on my point
When I said “he got to play in Vegas last year”, I was referring to the fact that he repeated. I wasn’t referring to the environmental characteristics of the ballpark, although I can see how that might have been confusing looking at it now.
thanks for clarifying...
and yes, the fact he had to repeat a year before adjusting to the league is a red flag in my book.
by Alex Eisenberg on Oct 26, 2010 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions
the fact he had to repeat a year before adjusting to the league is a red flag
He repeated because his 2009 numbers weren’t that good. They weren’t very good because perhaps he had vision problems, which were subsequently corrected in the 2009 off season. The adjustment might not have been to the league but to having better vision.
Hmmm
. . . kinda like Mike Stanley?
Man, I’m getting old. I kind of agree with you. here. Much of the debate about Arencibia seems to center around whether the bat is for real but, I just don’t believe in him behind the dish.
I think he’s a better hitter, way worse Catcher than John Buck and ideal in the role you say.
Deal with the life you’ve got. Solve the problems you have, rather than fantasizing about a life without them.
-Bill James
Great write-up
Very nice read. I can’t imagine taking Deck over Stewart right now and disagree with a few other comments. You state that Perez has no full season ball stats and is just too risky to rank higher than he is, yet you rank Marisnick higher, who played in a lower level of short season ball all year and then had bad stats in a small sample of A ball. I was suprised the Jays didn’t start Perez off in Lansing and I believe if they did he would have put up similar numbers there.
But overalll I really enjoyed the rankings and write-ups they provided a fresh look. I completely agree with your comments on Arencibia, and feel like he is the hardest guy to rank/figure out in this system.
perez
Totally different deal from Marisnick, because Perez is a catcher. Catchers wear down, especially when they’re put into tough conditions. Playing 65 games in the middle of the northeast summer is one thing. Playing 130 games that includes April and May in Michigan, that’s another. I think it’s good to acknowledge Perez’s upside, but for now I feel more comfortable in doing so with a little bit of caution. If Perez had played some or all of the year in Lansing and had put up similar numbers, then he would likely rank higher, although I’d have to think long and hard about whether to take Perez or Marisnick.
Marisnick is a bit raw, but all of the signs for future success are there. I feel more confident that his development will take a more positive path than Perez, and I think if he had been sent to Auburn rather than to Lansing, the numbers would have turned out just fine. Both players are talented, I just think there are more known quantities with Marisnick right now.
You are stretching this big time. How on earth does Marisnick have more “known quantities” (I’m assuming this should say qualities) when Perez is easily light years ahead as a hitter. I love Marisnick just as much as any other Blue Jays fan, but he’s not even close to Perez’s polish.
I dont see what “catchers wear down” has to do with Perez’s prospect placement. Pitchers blow their arms out; should we now under-rank every pitching prospect in every organization because chances are they could get hurt? For what its worth, Perez is built very differently from most catchers, and his smaller frame + super athletic profile could easily give him considerably more stamina over a full season.
I'm really not
This has nothing to do with pitchers at all – as I’m sure you know, pitchers and catchers develop very differently. Perez isn’t underrated here, and if your point is supposed to be “Marisnick is really, really good, and Perez is even better”, I’m not buying. You don’t get to have it both ways.
Perez is still a catcher that’s only played in short season leagues. When he can deal with April and May in Lansing and still look like he’s doing okay in August, then we can talk. I think my ranking is perfectly reasonable for the moment. When he’s done the things that I want to see, he’ll move up in my eyes. This really doesn’t seem like that big a deal to me . . .
Yeah, it's really not
I mean, I probably would’ve put them Perez-Gose-Marisnick, but I totally see where you’re coming from.
I just think that if you put Perez at the same level as Marisnick, he would’ve performed similarly or better. I would get putting Marisnick above Perez if he had really done anything to earn that recognition, but he looked awful in the MWL. With that said, I can see why one would have some reservations with Perez… I just think that one should have similar questions about Marisnick.
I think they’re both high-upside, high-risk prospects, and I can see why one would lean towards the slightly less risky center fielder in that case. But from what I’ve read, I’d probably take Perez personally.
Baseball is my preferred sport. It should be yours, too.
I'm an editor for Beyond the Box Score, an SB Nation blog.
by Satchel Price on Oct 27, 2010 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions
well he was awful in his first 20 games, pretty good in the next 10 and on fire in his last five….roughly….i don’t know that you want to question his MWL results based on that debut. it’s skipping level too.
for the record
I’d go Perez-Gose-Marisnick too.
Yeah, but it's not like those 35 games indicated that he was any more polished or anything
I just don’t think you can really point to their numbers and say, “That’s why I like Marisnick more.”
Baseball is my preferred sport. It should be yours, too.
I'm an editor for Beyond the Box Score, an SB Nation blog.
by Satchel Price on Oct 27, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
AJ Jiminez?
His defence is the best in the system and he hit quite well in the toughest of leagues (MWL). His plate discipline improved this year too.
I did think about him
I noted that he’d be in the next few players to be on, actually. I’m about as willing as they come to overlook poor plate discipline in favor of the “let them learn how to hit” approach, but Jimenez still has a pretty raw approach. He might play himself up next year . . .or he might not go anywhere.
Finally got around to reading it all
Very nice write-up. I share your enthusiasm for Aaron Sanchez (and d’Arnaud), and I’m higher on Wojciechowksi and Jenkins than you are. I know the change up needs to develop for Wojo to stay in the rotation, but I like that he was a workhorse for The Citadel this year and controlled both his fastball and slider well.
As for Jenkins, Toronto’s history of developing sinker ball pitchers is good enough for me to give him more leeway. I wouldn’t rank him terribly higher than where you have him; I just thought the comment was a bit too negative.
As for another organization? Colorado has a pretty interesting system.
http://bullpenbanter.com/
As usual, this is a great list and some good commentary
I really like the top-10, although I might think about moving around the 5-6-7 guys in Perez, Marisnick and Gose. And I’d probably take Arencibia over Eric Thames, too.
But overall, this isn’t drastically different from how my list would shake out, and obviously the real value of this list comes from the commentary. A good read.
Baseball is my preferred sport. It should be yours, too.
I'm an editor for Beyond the Box Score, an SB Nation blog.
I don't believe anyone has done an Astros Top 20
if you’re looking for another project. Just…be gentle. We (Astros fans) know it’s not great, all we’re looking for is a bit of hope.
"Every time you go to that cook-off you get drunk as a poet on payday!"
Good list, Great write-ups.
I agree with you on Sanchez for sure, like him alot as well. Great to read your take on the Jays system.
by TwoEyesForAnEye on Oct 25, 2010 10:39 PM EDT reply actions
Marisnick
Probably higher than I’d have him, but I will say that his MWL stint (after skipping a level) wasn’t all that forgetable. He OPS’d over .800 in his last 10 games and over 1.300 over his last five. So he probably left there feeling pretty confident.
Cardona
I guess the only other possible omission is 16 year-old Venezuelan, Adonis Cardona. Did you consider him or forget about him?
Cardona is way to young to be concidered a top prospect yet
In my eyes you cant judge a players potential based on his signing bonus
It's a ten-sided die like in Scattegories
With a different bonus on each side- some guys get $4M, some guys get $10,000.
Baseball is my preferred sport. It should be yours, too.
I'm an editor for Beyond the Box Score, an SB Nation blog.
by Satchel Price on Oct 28, 2010 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions
who gets to roll the die?
Does a team official, agent or is there a host that likes to kiss the contestants?
I know who he is
But you kind of said it all yourself, 16 years old foreign signee. Sometimes those guys are awesome. Sometimes those guys get over here and you’re wondering what the hell the big deal was in the first place. For somebody who enjoys a lot of scrutiny like an Inoa/Ynoa/whatever his name is, maybe you can give him more of the benefit of the doubt, but it just doesn’t make sense to get too excited. But that’s a big part of my philosophy . . .it’s okay to like a player, but you always need to keep perspective. You don’t get “brownie points” for having a guy in the top 20 if it didn’t make sense at the time to do so. I’d rather my thoughts and opinions get attention for being thoughtful and well-reasoned than impulsive and unusual for the sake of creating conversation. Controversial opinions might sell and they might get people talking about your point of view (and let’s face it, the lure of “your” point of view being discussed is a big draw to the creation of any list), but that doesn’t make them right, and it doesn’t make them anything that I’m interested in having my name associated with.
do we know any more about Aaron Sanchez than we do about Adonis Cardona? None of us have seen them pitch. Only a few scouts in each case and we’re taking their word for it and including them in lists. We do know that a ML club scouted Cardona heavily and it took the fourth highest (July 2) bonus in history to sign him.
Just being devil’s advocate – I’d have no idea where to put him. But he’s a prospect, he’s an asset and he presumably has a quantifiable value to the club that owns him.
Pitchers are a bit different from hitters
But I generally feel more comfortable trusting HS scouting reports than Latin American scouting reports. It seems like players down there have significantly less in game experience and are judged mostly off of individual workouts. The prep prospects have mostly been on the radar for a 3-4 years and have been to many showcases against the top prep talent over that time. I’m tentative with IFAs until they play some pro ball and those scouts have their look.
http://bullpenbanter.com/
of course we do
Sanchez has actually been seen in pro competition and has been scouted by people on the pro side of things, not just amateur scouts. He also has actual statistical data to look at, for whatever that’s worth at this point (not much, but any pro experience is a huge advantage over the kind of experience a 16 year old has).
The amount of the signing bonus doesn’t mean that much to me. jar hit most of the good points re: concerns about international players. Like I said, he might be awesome. But the odds aren’t great. So much of the deal with the Latin kids is the projection . . .so many of them end up being never-was types, and lots of others break very quickly. Still, projection in the Latin IFA market is not cheap.
we’re talking about what 16 innings?
the signing bonus may not mean much to you, but it means a lot to the Jays, and they’re the ones who have seen him pitch.
i’d bet BA has him in their top 20.
So?
BA and mrkupe’s top 20s do not have to agree. You could just as easily say: “I’d bet John doesn’t have him in his top 20.” People use different approaches when dealing with IFAs.
http://bullpenbanter.com/

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