Texas Rangers Top 20 Prospects List for 2010
by John Sickels on Jan 6, 2010 9:32 PM EST
247 comments
Top 20 Texas Rangers Prospects for 2010
All grades are EXTREMELY PRELIMINARY and subject to change. Don't get too worried about exact rankings at this point, especially once you get beyond the Top 10. Grade C+/C guys are pretty interchangeable depending on what you want to emphasize. Complete reports on these and over 1,000 other players will be in the 2010 Baseball Prospect Book, now available for pre-order, shipping on February 2nd!
1) Neftali Feliz, RHP, Grade A: He's really, really, really good. Only questions going forward are what role he plays, and the standard concerns about injuries since he's a young pitcher.
2) Justin Smoak, 1B, Grade A-: I'm not too worried about what happened in Triple-A, given everything else he's done. Still expect him to become an All-Star first baseman.
3) Martin Perez, LHP, Grade A-: Could be a left-handed version of Feliz if all goes well. Expectations are lofty, but so is the talent.
4) Tanner Scheppers, RHP, Grade B+: Borderline A-. I'd make him an A-, but I still worry that the shoulder problems will recur. His ceiling is terrific and he could be number one next year if he stays healthy.
5) Wilmer Font, RHP, Grade B: Another very high ceiling arm, could be B+ or even A- with another year of development.
6) Michael Main, RHP, Grade B: The numbers don't support this, but he gets an injury mulligan due to the weird virus thing and I believe in his stuff.
7) Mitch Moreland, 1B-OF, Grade B-: I don't know how they fit him into the lineup, but I think the bat is legitimate. I like him better than most other analysts.
8) Kasey Kiker, LHP, Grade B-: A few command refinements and he could really take off. I think he's a bit underrated by some people, and yes I have seen him in person. I know reports of his velocity being down have folks spooked, but it's still in there. Read this scouting report.
9) Robbie Ross, LHP, Grade B-: Potent ground ball/strikeout combination. Another breakout candidate.
10) Danny Gutierrez, RHP, Grade C+: I really like this guy as a pitcher, but worry that he won't stay healthy. Off-field makeup problems seem pretty bad, too.
11) Engel Beltre, OF, Grade C+: Terrific tools but at some point he has to start living up to all the hype. I respect his youth and potential but remain skeptical that he'll live up to it, and as a result I won't put him in the top ten.
12) Guillermo Moscoso, RHP, Grade C+: I like this guy a lot, and he's ready to help now. Another underrated talent.
13) Max Ramirez, C, Grade C+: Grade gets knocked back some due to defense and durability concerns but I still think he'll hit enough to help someone.
14) Miguel Velazquez, OF, Grade C+: There are makeup concerns here but he's got the tools and he performed well in the Northwest League. Need higher level data and another year of makeup stability.
15) Omar Poveda, RHP, Grade C+: Looks like an inning-eater type. Worried about low strikeout rate.
16) Blake Beavan, RHP, Grade C+ Another low strikeout guy, throws strikes, still very young.
17) Carlos Pimentel, RHP, Grade C+: Another guy who seems underrated to me, could take another step forward in '10.
18) Robbie Erlin, LHP, Grade C+: Intriguing high school arm from '09 draft, but need to see more from higher levels.
19) Tommy Mendonca, 3B, Grade C+: Enormous power. . .but can he control the strike zone against better pitching?
20) Vince DiFazio, C, Grade C+: Very good pro debut from 2009 draft sleeper.
OTHERS (Grade C): Richard Alvarez, RHP; Mike Bianucchi, OF; Richard Bleier, LHP; Wilfredo Boscan, RHP; Andrew Doyle, RHP; Edwin Escobar, LHP; Craig Gentry, OF; Kennil Gomez, RHP; Michael Kirkman, LHP; Marcus Lemon, INF; Zack Phillips, LHP; Jurickson Profar, SS; Neil Ramirez, RHP; Luis Sardinas, SS; Ben Snyder, LHP; Pedro Strop, RHP; Tomas Telis, C; Matt Thompson, RHP, Braden Tullis, RHP; Joe Wieland, RHP.
Several of the Grade Cs have the potential to be much higher a year from now. 2009 international signees Profar and Sardinas get great reviews for their tools, but until we get some pro data for them I'm hesitant to put them on lists like this. International signees are getting more and more attention over the last couple of seasons. I applaud this trend in the press, but ranking a 16 year old accurately is very difficult, absent any objective data. If you want to give guys like Profar and Sardinas a Grade C+ and put them somewhere in the 15-20 range you can do that, but I've seen too many of these kind of players fizzle out to get any more aggressive than that. At least give me some rookie ball numbers.
Pitching is the cornerstone of this farm system. Feliz, Perez, and Scheppers all have number one starter ability and are ranked accordingly. Beyond them are a bunch of other live arms...I like Kiker a lot, Main seems a good bet for a rebound, Font is a potential B+/A- guy a year from now, and there are plenty of arms beyond them, both projectable/arm strength types and inning-eater guys.
Things are thinner on the hitting side. I still expect Justin Smoak to be an impact guy despite his problems at Oklahoma City. Mitch Moreland's bat is legitimate even if scouts still downplay his tools. Max Ramirez is more problematic...he just didn't look right this year, but he hit for power in winter ball and if the wrist is OK I think he'll rebound. Engel Beltre....yes, I know scouts love him and he's young and he's toolsy but his plate discipline remains so bad, I have doubts. He's not a top ten for me at this point given his performance.
Overall, this remains an elite farm system, with an outstanding balance of current production and long-term upside. Some of the C+/C guys could be B/B+ or even A- a year from now. Rangers fans have plenty to look forward to.
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What are your thoughts on Tomas Telis?
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
by FirebatM3 on Jan 6, 2010 9:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Rather
with his successes @ Rookie ball and the NW League (and the dominican leagues last year), why isn’t he higher?
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
by FirebatM3 on Jan 6, 2010 9:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
telis
Could be a C+. thought about it, decided i didn’t like the miniscule walk rate
by John Sickels on Jan 6, 2010 9:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He's supposed to be a bad body guy too
by BrosbeforeShaincoes on Jan 6, 2010 9:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Catchers can have bad bodies. Most do, actually.
Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.
by rooster on Jan 6, 2010 10:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
John
Do you worry about Smoak’s lack of power so far? Some within the Rangers prospect evaluation community have expressed a belief that he’s much closer to Overbay than to Teixeira. Agree or disagree?
by Conjunction on Jan 6, 2010 9:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
lack of power
can possibly be attributed to the oblique strain he was battling this season.
JOSH THOLE > carlos santana
by Dewey Finn on Jan 6, 2010 9:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
smoak
I think the power will come. He is better than overbay, maybe not teixeira.
by John Sickels on Jan 6, 2010 9:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This was his first full pro season too
besides the injury. He made it AAA, and he was a machine before the injury in AA (which is where, again, he started his first full pro season).
by alskor on Jan 6, 2010 10:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
also
I feel that if you watch this guy you can tell right away power isnt gonna be an issue for him. He’s not a top notch raw power type, but he’s got plenty.
http://www.prospecttube.com/main/search/search?q=smoak
He also does so while maintaining a very high AVG. He doesnt sacrifice contact for power too much, his power is natural product of his swing. He’s also a switch hitter, so platoon splits shouldnt be an issue either. Also, pretty adept in the field, not a big plodder. There’s really just a ton to like about Justin Smoak. One of the best hitters in the minors.
by alskor on Jan 6, 2010 10:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Another thing
His line drive rates were phenomenal. Minor-league batted ball data is sketchy, but what we have suggests terrific, solid contact.
by Conjunction on Jan 6, 2010 10:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Who are the C guys with the most upside?
by ravensfan3 on Jan 6, 2010 9:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Profar, Ramirez, Thompson, Gomez, Telis, Sardinas, Wieland all have a lot of upside.
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Jan 6, 2010 9:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Which one has most upside?
Any have #1 starter potential?
by ravensfan3 on Jan 6, 2010 9:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ramirez does
Wieland, Gomez and Thompson probably #2 ceilings
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Jan 6, 2010 9:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So besides Ramirez, Wieland, Gomez and Thompson are pitchers right?
by ravensfan3 on Jan 6, 2010 9:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, all those are pitchers.
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Jan 6, 2010 9:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Profar Probably
But he is a position player
by BrosbeforeShaincoes on Jan 6, 2010 9:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What position?
Whats a good comp now?
by ravensfan3 on Jan 6, 2010 9:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
SS
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Jan 6, 2010 9:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I really don't know much about him
Baseball America ranked him as the 15th best amateur available in Latin America this year. He’s a switch-hitter so that profiles to have good power for the position. Wish I could tell you more.
by BrosbeforeShaincoes on Jan 6, 2010 9:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Possible Andrus/Escobar/Castro type?
by ravensfan3 on Jan 6, 2010 10:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
A bit more power
(for what it’s worth as a freakin 16, going on 17 y.o.)
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
by FirebatM3 on Jan 6, 2010 10:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I could buy more power but will he have that kind of glove?
by jfish26101 on Jan 6, 2010 10:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently
his arm is good, as are his “actions”.
It’s all supposition until we seem him play, which he might as early as next year.
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
by FirebatM3 on Jan 6, 2010 10:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It will be next year, it's if he'll start in Low-A or SS-A is what we don't now
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Jan 6, 2010 10:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Too early to tell
though reports are he has a strong arm and the Rangers people seem to like his power potential (for a SS, at least I guess.) There’s just not that much info yet.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Jan 6, 2010 10:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It just amazes me how little Castro/Escobar/Andrus signed for
I wish my Orioles would take some shots on those guys. I recently wrote an article on how the orioles need to spend more on international guys and I was amazed how little Feliz, Perez and others cost to sign. Yeah there is risk, but still worth it.
by ravensfan3 on Jan 6, 2010 10:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Andrus signed for $600k
which was a big chunk of money in LA at that time
by ramjam36 on Jan 7, 2010 12:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's All Chance
You need a good scouting department, not the money in order to get players.
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by cwhitman412 on Jan 7, 2010 3:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You've seen Kiker in person, so...
why are you not concerned about his velocity issues?
by NoNameOnCard on Jan 6, 2010 9:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
kiker
He was throwing 90-94 when I saw him. Plenty of velocity and movement. Problem was his release point wandering.
by John Sickels on Jan 6, 2010 9:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I charted all of Frisco's home games this year.
For the most part, he sat at 87-89 with occasional bursts into the low-90s.
I only saw 1 game where his fastball was consistently over 90, even hitting 96 at one point. I guess you caught him on a good day.
by NoNameOnCard on Jan 6, 2010 9:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Is that why
He’s projected as a reliever? There’s some thought that the role would settle his velocity disparity?
by Conjunction on Jan 6, 2010 9:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that idea is based on him being to have a more consistent velocity.
His upper limit velocity is still pretty high, but as a starter he doesn’t really seem to get anywhere near it aside from an occasional pitch here and there.
The idea is that, as a reliever, he can just go out there at 100%, presumably back in the 93-95 MPH range, which should enhance his promising change up.
by NoNameOnCard on Jan 6, 2010 9:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
kiker
it was a road game in tulsa. saw multiple guns 90-94.
by John Sickels on Jan 6, 2010 9:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This is the same as I saw
Caught about 3 kiker starts and I rarely saw the scouts guns go above 90. Pretty consistently in the range you mentioned
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Jan 6, 2010 10:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
very glad
to see him higher than some of the rangers “fans” out there.
by auclairkeithbc on Jan 6, 2010 9:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
kiker
the other thing for kiker is that i think people are expecting every rangers ptiching prospect to be Neftali.
by John Sickels on Jan 6, 2010 9:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think more of it is the upper-80s velocity and the walks/HBPs.
by NoNameOnCard on Jan 6, 2010 9:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
walks
i agree about the walks…that’s why he’s a B-.
But i know what I saw in tulsa…the velocity is still in there somewhere.
by John Sickels on Jan 6, 2010 9:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I agree that it's in there somewhere.
I just don’t think he can go to it often enough to be an effective starter at the Major League level.
by NoNameOnCard on Jan 6, 2010 9:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
kiker
I put a link to the observations I made of him in august.
by John Sickels on Jan 6, 2010 10:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
True,
the other thing for kiker is that i think people are expecting every rangers ptiching prospect to be Neftali.
We r so enriched in very good pitching prospects that we expect them all to be at that level of intensity. If it means having him pitch in the pen to increase his velocity so be it. He should become at least a serviceable and cheap pen option that can come in and change a game I believe.
The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ
by NYTXFAN on Jan 7, 2010 9:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
From everything i've read...
He is one of the most intense pitchers out there, if we are talking about his persona. I don’t think he is destined for the bullpen. I know there is a logjam for Rangers SPs, so the natural tendency is to knock the guys you like least, and call them future bullpen guys. Remember, trades happen, injuries happen, life happens. He is a good SP prospect, playing pretty young for his level. Maybe he’ll be moved to the bullpen if the Rangers have specific needs, but that isn’t the ideal thing.
by auclairkeithbc on Jan 7, 2010 2:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd call Kiker a reliever at this point
no matter who else was in the system.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Jan 7, 2010 2:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
he is an angry little guy out there.
by Brett Perryman on Jan 8, 2010 12:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why don't you like Strop?
Look at his numbers as the year progressed.
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Jan 6, 2010 9:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
strop
great stuff. Could have been a C+. Worried about his command.
by John Sickels on Jan 6, 2010 9:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My question is did you stop at 20 with the C+'s
and there are more left or is there exactly 20 C+’s in the Rangers system
JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook
by laxtonto on Jan 6, 2010 9:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
C+
It just turned out that way. Some of the Cs could be C+….the tools guys, Strop. etc.
by John Sickels on Jan 6, 2010 9:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Where would Matt Purke
have ranked on this list?
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
by FirebatM3 on Jan 6, 2010 9:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
depends
depends….if we got some rookie ball data out of him and it was good, maybe a B+. If no data, maybe just a b.
by John Sickels on Jan 6, 2010 9:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Still hurts a little to read his name…
"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks
by hightowersmith on Jan 6, 2010 9:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Its gonna hurt when Pomeranz (sp?)
gets drafted, though some guys say I’m going to school don’t draft me and they still get drafted just for a chance, not sure if he was one of these guys or not.
by groundingout on Jan 6, 2010 10:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ranaudo and Pomeranz
back to back rounds. THat 2007 draft would have been nuts.
Pomeranz was actually announced as signed before the deadline, but it was retracted. Kind of like the Matt Purke fiasco, but hurt 10 times less.
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
by FirebatM3 on Jan 6, 2010 10:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
let's just stop bringing up that name
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
by NothinG on Jan 7, 2010 2:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm totally agreed with your assessment of Beltre...
Which is why I’m wondering why he’s still in front of Moscoso, at least. Based on what you said, it seems like he should be back among the other C+’s who’re young but have problems to overcome/rebound from, like Beavan and Poveda.
If the Rangers were in the playoffs... the soundtrack could be one long continuous fart, and I would love it. - cmkelly
by lonestarJon on Jan 6, 2010 9:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
beltre
you can make a case to have him as low as 20. ultimately i decided to cut him a little slack…but just a little.
by John Sickels on Jan 6, 2010 9:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
On the field, Beltre has an uncanny Nuke LaLoosh stigma. He does some things that make the mascot take cover, but his physical tools are awesome. I think #11 is right on the money.
by StickRat on Jan 7, 2010 1:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Font
Would you say Font actually has the most upside of anyone in their farm?
by tulolince on Jan 6, 2010 9:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
no
No….he doesn’t have the MOST. But he is not THAT far from Feliz and Perez…IF he reaches his max.
by John Sickels on Jan 6, 2010 9:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Weight
Were the reports on his conditioning positive? I’ve read that has been an issue in the past
by BrosbeforeShaincoes on Jan 6, 2010 9:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
He showed a lot more maturity this year on and off the field per the Rangers people.
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Jan 6, 2010 9:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Who would be 21-25?
I agree with you on Beltre. It is time to learn how to use those tools. He likely has the biggest bust potential.
|Space for Rent|
by RangerMad on Jan 6, 2010 9:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
ranks
don’t have time to rank all the Cs…..
by John Sickels on Jan 6, 2010 9:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How many guys on this list did you think have the potential to be B+/A's?
JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook
by laxtonto on Jan 6, 2010 9:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
potential
POTENTIALLY including the ones who already are, probably 20 of them COULD end up as B+ or higher eventually.
by John Sickels on Jan 6, 2010 9:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
list
Man, you guys were just lying in wait for this list, weren’t ya? lol
by John Sickels on Jan 6, 2010 9:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
AJM was, anyway
He had it linked over on LSB within 8 minutes of you posting it.
If the Rangers were in the playoffs... the soundtrack could be one long continuous fart, and I would love it. - cmkelly
by lonestarJon on Jan 6, 2010 10:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Twitter also really helps
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Jan 6, 2010 10:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Was he eager before or after the Profar thing?
by chrisR on Jan 6, 2010 10:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
huh?
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Jan 6, 2010 10:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Ajm v. Newberg exchange over Newbs ranking of Profar
by chrisR on Jan 6, 2010 10:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ah.. thats right but I'm sure he was really eager before too.
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Jan 6, 2010 10:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, you bet.
These are exciting days to follow the Rangers system.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Jan 6, 2010 10:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1 MM
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Jan 6, 2010 10:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Texas
also happens to be the only org that neither BA nor BP has ranked yet.
by Brett Perryman on Jan 6, 2010 10:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What do you know about FL WR Riley Cooper?
JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook
by laxtonto on Jan 6, 2010 10:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
actually he is only commited to the Sr Bowl and the combine
and is not guaranteed to the the NFL.
JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook
by laxtonto on Jan 6, 2010 10:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what do you mean hes not gaureantteed to the nfl?
by matthewmafa on Jan 6, 2010 10:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He has already said so recently
he is looked at as a 4th/5th rounder right now and may instead stick with baseball.
A lost depends on how much he likes baseball and how he looks in the combine
JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook
by laxtonto on Jan 6, 2010 10:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm to the point I'd rather see him go to the NFL and put that 250K into the hands of Leo Perdomo.
or take a flier on DePaula
Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.
by rooster on Jan 6, 2010 10:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
agreed on Perdomo
but don’t you think it will take more than that to sign him?
by ramjam36 on Jan 7, 2010 12:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He kind of comes off as a douche
and he apparently can’t hit.
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
by FirebatM3 on Jan 6, 2010 10:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and he apparently can’t hit.
Got the tools, just hasn’t had enough time to polish it into production. His odds of working out as a baseball player are pretty low, but can’t blame the Rangers for giving it a shot.
by Andy Seiler on Jan 6, 2010 10:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Being that he's already 22
his tools would have to be pretty outstanding for that kind of commitment.
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
by FirebatM3 on Jan 6, 2010 10:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They are
He’d be one of the most physically gifted WRs in this year’s draft. Not your standard issue Joe-Jurevicious-type white wideout.
by Conjunction on Jan 6, 2010 10:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
then why the 5th round projection?
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jan 7, 2010 3:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Inconsistent
Based on the indications I’ve gotten from the draft websites. He doesn’t run the greatest routes, and his hands aren’t as sure as you’d like. I haven’t seen a full scouting report for him, though… those tend to come out closer to March-April.
by Conjunction on Jan 7, 2010 7:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Found a scouting report
This one actually projects him as a 2nd or 3rd rounder. If that’s the case, bye bye baseball.
by Conjunction on Jan 7, 2010 8:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
if you think
that kid is one of the most physically gifted wide receivers in college football, you don’t watch much college football.
by richieabernathy on Jan 7, 2010 9:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Admittedly, I don't
I get no joy out of watching college FB. A game between the Lions and Rams would feature better overall skill than CFB’s National Championship game.
I do, however, read tons of draft content. Evaluators seem very high on Cooper’s talent.
by Conjunction on Jan 7, 2010 9:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You mean the $250K commitment?
It’s really not that much in the scheme of things. Purke wasn’t signed, and I think Cooper was at least a little bit of a hedge against that happening. Cooper’s got the tools to be an above-average Major League outfielder, but with a great deal less polish than your average aforementioned 22 year old college hitter. I don’t think anyone thought he would turn into a great prospect immediately or within the next year or two, but he’s got potential. It wasn’t a bad investment, especially since the money comes back if he chooses football.
by Andy Seiler on Jan 6, 2010 10:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I hear he hits the curve like Drew Henson.
Do like the hell out of his athleticism. Also liked Donald Harris’ as well.
"Ho visto il tuo agire, non solo rendono per me. Basta un sacco di fluff".
by scoop16 on Jan 6, 2010 10:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think we could use a douche or two
we got rid of the biggest in the history of the franchise…need to fill the empty tanks back up
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jan 7, 2010 3:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow. We were jumping on this thread within 10 minutes after it posted.
A little bored right now, are we Ranger fans?
Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.
by rooster on Jan 6, 2010 10:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Do you want to discuss Mike Leach again?
Because we certainly can for the 8th time.
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
by FirebatM3 on Jan 6, 2010 10:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
heh
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Jan 6, 2010 10:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Naw. How about let's discuss josey or goyo.
Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.
by rooster on Jan 6, 2010 10:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Can we pull the statistics on which LSBers have posted here the most?
Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.
by rooster on Jan 6, 2010 10:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Are you daring me to write a Ben Sheets fanpost?
by chrisR on Jan 6, 2010 10:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
will it be an ode to sheets?
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jan 7, 2010 3:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Rangers also just signed 16 y.o. LHP Victor Payano
whom the Red Sox almost signed.
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Jan 6, 2010 10:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
John Sickels
What was your take on the Mike Lowell to Texas for Max Ramirez trade that fell through?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
by Josey Wales on Jan 6, 2010 10:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
damn the troll script doesnt work on here :/
The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ
by NYTXFAN on Jan 7, 2010 9:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I get really excited about the A's system until I see what the Rangers have.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 6, 2010 10:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
At least it's not the Angels.
I’d much rather the A’s lose out to Texas. I just despise the Angels organization. Can’t stand Scoscia, hate how they handle certain prospects, don’t like their style of ball. And listening to their announcers (who I think I heard were let go) makes listening to Hawk Harrelson seem like the best thing in the world. The Rangers don’t offend my baseball sensibilities in the least.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 7, 2010 3:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Announcers
Hudler and Physioc were let go. Rory Markus was our main TV announcer and he just died on Monday. Would you like to make some unkind words about Adenhart as well?
In Arte I Trust.
by SalmonStream on Jan 7, 2010 1:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Profar
I’m surprised to see him not rated as high
I just got on twitter.Follow me at http://twitter.com/JDSussman
I'll be trying to post lines and analysis as much as possible.
Remember: baseball guys... baseball...
by JDSussman on Jan 6, 2010 10:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Profar
The level of variance there will be huge. Most have no idea who he is, but Newberg had him 6th, as I recall, and Kevin Goldstein has hunted to being high as a supercharged kite on him.
by Conjunction on Jan 6, 2010 10:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
hinted*
I doubt KG is hunting. He seems more of the quiet, video-gamey type.
by Conjunction on Jan 6, 2010 10:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I can't imagine him being any higher than C+
Putting him at 6 is down right silly. This is a guy, who by all reports from the pre-signing IFA coverage, was a much better pitching prospect who only is a SS because he absolutely refused to pitch. Even if those are wrong, and he’s the best signing of the season, C+ is the same grade the ostensible best IFA Miguel Sano got.
by aCone419 on Jan 7, 2010 1:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
100 comments within the 1st hour...
Who says no one follow the Rangers?
JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook
by laxtonto on Jan 6, 2010 10:46 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
New York Rangers?
The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ
by NYTXFAN on Jan 7, 2010 9:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Main v. Gutierrez
Gutierrez ranks a C+ because of injury proneness. Why not Main?
Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.
by rooster on Jan 6, 2010 10:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
does a virus really count as being injury prone?
I would assume that is the argument
by ab03 on Jan 6, 2010 11:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just asking John his opinion and to clarify.
This has been discussed ad nauseum at lonestarball and lonestardugout.
My opinion is that John has them ranked about how I would rank them. I’d probably give Gutierrez a B-.
Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.
by rooster on Jan 6, 2010 11:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would actually give Gutierrez a B-, too
Only saying the injuries are very different cases. A virus is something totally different.
I know it wont be a popular opinion, but I still might give Beltre a B- too.
by alskor on Jan 7, 2010 12:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He was injured the year before.
And in high school. Though I don’t agree with the label of injury-prone.
by Andy Seiler on Jan 6, 2010 11:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you don't agree with the label
or the label on Main
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
by NothinG on Jan 7, 2010 2:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
makeup
Gut’s off-field/coachability issues factored into it, and I’m glad, because that scares me about him too
What's the rumpus?
by Hypo-Luxa on Jan 6, 2010 11:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what exactly is his deal?
meta-signature
by rlb02a on Jan 6, 2010 11:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A couple of incidents
public urination, other law problems.
He also apparently is kind of resistant to adding a changeup in game.
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
by FirebatM3 on Jan 6, 2010 11:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
He outright refused the suggestion from the KC coach. Whether or not it was a bad idea, I do not like that coming from a kid looking to get a job as a ML player.
What's the rumpus?
by Hypo-Luxa on Jan 6, 2010 11:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Never heard that
Danny Clark told Jason Cole that Gutierrez didn’t believe he needed a changeup.
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
by FirebatM3 on Jan 6, 2010 11:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Kind of attitude that almost makes you want to see him get thrashed at a higher level
Just to get some air let out of his balloon.
If the Rangers were in the playoffs... the soundtrack could be one long continuous fart, and I would love it. - cmkelly
by lonestarJon on Jan 7, 2010 12:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought Cortes was the one who was busted for public urination
and thats why he was traded for one of the worst SS’s in the game
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
by Gobroks on Jan 7, 2010 12:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cortes was arrested for the public urination, yes.
I think this was Gutierrez:
http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/publicaccess/caselookup.aspx (Disorderly Conduct – Fighting + Failure to Appear)
http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/publicaccess/caselookup.aspx (Driving w/out a valid license + speeding 20/45 over)
http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/publicaccess/caselookup.aspx (Assault – touched to injure)
Im not sure if the fighting and assault were the same event, as they were in different courts.
Though I also recall Royals fans saying he was arrested for possession of marijuana.
by alskor on Jan 7, 2010 12:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he got suspended by the team for pot before the MLB/MiLB could step in and do the drug testing. saved from some public embarrassment.
and then those. beating on his girl. what a tool.
it’s too bad cuz he has talent.
baseball rules.
by doublestix on Jan 7, 2010 12:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Only one to really be concerned about is the Assault, and if there was a possession charge that also
But fighting and driving with no license? Come on the kid is human and is a kid after all.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Jan 7, 2010 10:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Overlooking the obvious again Bs?
Makeup Matters:
10/13/2009 JAIL/PRISON D 1
10/13/2009 FUND: BASE FINE (84%) D 1
10/13/2009 FUND: MUNI COURT FEE EFF 0609 D 1
10/13/2009 COMMUNITY RESTITUTION D 1
10/13/2009 SENTENCING D 1
10/13/2009 ALCOHOL SCREENING ORDERED D 1
10/13/2009 PLEA AGREEMENT RECEIVED D 1
10/13/2009 PROBATION D 1
10/13/2009 ANGER MGT COUNSELING ORDEREd
by Goyogringo on Jan 7, 2010 12:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What are you trying to show?
Seriously is there something im missing here? He went to prison, paid a fine, paid court costs, was sentenced to probation and ordered to undergo alcohol screening and anger mgmt? Yeah like I said, the assault charge gives me pause and he would be on a short leash if i was the GM but he has completed the community service and alcohol screening already.
So the kid got into a fight at a bar when he was 21. Shit happens. He was driving without a license. OK big deal. He didn’t pay the ticket and got a warrant issued. Not a big deal.
The assault is especially if its against a woman. Thats why you make sure he understands hes on a short leash. If it happens again you cut him loose. If not his talent on the field is pretty special. A assault charge from when he was 22 years old will have no bearing on his hammer curveball in a few years.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Jan 7, 2010 12:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Go fuck yourself
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Jan 7, 2010 12:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Neither of the last 2 comments were necessary but I think, depending on the circumstances, the fight and driving without a license are possibly cause for concerns. If nothing else, it shows a general lack of ability to follow rules/laws and a certain lack of respect for authority. I wouldn’t have jumped to conclusions about the fight because perhaps it wasn’t his fault or he was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. There really isn’t much of an excuse for driving without a license or failing to pay the fine. More than single occurrences, when you have several infractions it does show a trend. Even the people laughing off public urination should reconsider what that type of reaction (laughing at it) says about the act and about yourself. I don’t think you should be going to jail for relieving yourself in an ally but laughing it off in front of an impressionable person is definitely the wrong message to send.
by jfish26101 on Jan 7, 2010 1:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
driving without a license
Looking at the record of things I think we all need to tap the brakes just a bit. From the looks of it he was pulled over in March of 08 so he was most likely at spring training. I don’t know how Arizona does traffic tickets but here in Texas each city is different. Some you have 10 days some 2 weeks some 3 weeks to either pay the fine or go in front of a judge. It looks like 10 days after the ticket either he or his attorney filed a motion for continuance.
Then in late April they sent him a letter (assuming it was about the ticket) but it was returned due to bad address. By this time he was pitching for Burlington in the MWL and was not in Arizona any longer. A warrant was then issued in mid May again while he was not in the state.
He was then arrested in November I imagine after a traffic stop for some petty reason. not to get into politics or racial arguments its easy to see how a young hispanic male would get arrested for outstanding traffic warrants no matter the circumstances. From there it appears there were attorneys involved but i could be wrong.
Overall should it have been taken care of….yeah. But I don’t think a minor traffic violation is that big a deal in regards to his prospect status
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Jan 7, 2010 1:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Is driving without a license really a minor traffic violation? I think that is pretty big, you aren’t legally allowed behind a car.
by jfish26101 on Jan 7, 2010 2:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well why didn't he have a license?
Was it suspended? Expired? Simply left it at his house while he ran to the store?
If it was suspended ok I can see some outrage over that. If it was expired or left at home its a simple mistake and easily forgivable.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Jan 7, 2010 2:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I suppose but, given the other infractions, I’m not so inclined to give him the benefit of doubt on both the fight and driving w/o license.
by jfish26101 on Jan 7, 2010 2:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How old are you?
Maybe its cause im only a couple years older than he is I can understand how you get in those type situations. Ive never been in a bar fight myself but have seen plenty of times a group of young guys in a bar and someone takes offense to one or all of them and next thing you know its a brawl. Maybe a guy is hitting on some chick whos got a boyfriend who doesn’t care for whats going on. Who knows. Given what ive read about Gutierrez and some pics i have seen I can easily see it happening.
If I had to guess about the drivers license thing his birthday is Mar 8. The ticket was issued Mar 18th. He is from California. My guess is his license expired on the 8th while he was in spring training with the Royals minor leaguers and he hadn’t gone back to Cali to renew it. He got the ticket and still didn’t have time between then and the 1st of April so he asked the judge for more time. Then he got sent to Burlington and completely forgot about it until after the season and hired a lawyer to get it all sorted out.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Jan 7, 2010 2:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
28
I’ve been in the middle of a couple, never been one of the main causes. Was it truly a brawl/bar fight? Or just he getting into a fight with a guy (or couple of guys)? Shit happens yeah, you get that when you got to bars which is partly the organizations fault. Given priors though (that are worse), I find it hard to give him the benefit of doubt. Bad stuff often happens to good people but not usually multiple times in a small window of time.
by jfish26101 on Jan 7, 2010 2:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah like i said theres no justification for the assault
especially if its against a woman. But sometimes a guy just gets a case of bad luck and from all accounts the first fight and the drivers license thing were just a case of that. Maybe cause he is one of my teams best prospects I am more leniant and give more benefit of the doubt but I don’t put as much weight, hardly any in fact, on those first two as the assault especially considering what kind of prospect he is.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Jan 7, 2010 2:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I don’t care what kind of a baseball prospect he is so I guess that is where the difference lies.
/me shrugs
by jfish26101 on Jan 7, 2010 2:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
None of the things except the assault is really troubling
Pot, Driving without a license, etc…
BUT if we look at the sum of them AND the stories about him not taking coaching, well, that’s a real big cause for concern.
by alskor on Jan 7, 2010 2:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The only story I have heard about him not taking coaching
was in the AFL this year when he was resistant to experimenting with a changeup.
Granted a kid shouldn’t usurp authority but this is the AFl which isn’t as much a developmental phase as more a showcase phase. Guys aren’t there necessarily to work on aspects of their game that are bad. they are there to compete against alot of other top young prospects. from the videos of his AFL stint I was just fine watching him blow people away with his fastball and then buckle their knees with his hammer curve.
Now if he goes into spring training and the minor league season and refuses to throw a change then its a negative in my eyes. But given where he was and how he was performing im fine with him not wanting to throw a pitch that was unnecessary at the time especially given his unfamiliarity and lack of cinfidence with it.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Jan 7, 2010 2:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Whaaaaaaaaa
bigsteve has a disagreement?
by tyd3311 on Jan 7, 2010 2:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You seem awfully forgiven, going to assume you haven’t had a position of leadership or authority? That may be a bit too much to assume but I find it highly unlikely…that or you are just a homer. :p
by jfish26101 on Jan 7, 2010 2:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Royals fan seem to think that was not his first problem with coachability.
Look, could it be overblown? Sure. I dont know him personally. Im not willing to be on all these incidents having good excuses though. Im not saying he’s a bum or that he’ll be a bust – I just think you discount him a little. Though based on your earlier comments I think youre far higher on his talent than most.
by alskor on Jan 7, 2010 4:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
jfish
sorry i referred to you as an idiot the other day. i overreacted.
by richieabernathy on Jan 7, 2010 1:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Public urination never hurt anyone
I don’t know what all else Gutierrez has done, but I can’t knock a man for that.
by aCone419 on Jan 7, 2010 1:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Heh
I live in New York and it hardly phases me anymore.
"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks
by hightowersmith on Jan 7, 2010 9:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i've done it
hundreds of times
by richieabernathy on Jan 7, 2010 9:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Moreland followed by Kiker
those rankings surprise but excite me. I think it’s pretty indicative of the layfan having easy access to the AA squad and Kiker’s been scrutinized a lot. I’ve really gotten to love his attitude, but I do not like his command issues. Yes, he’s still a kid, but his BB/9 still scares me. To the point that I’d think he’d be a C (within the strictures of your ranking system).
Moreland being that high surprises me as well. Obviously you see him breaking out of the dreaded Jason Botts model and becoming something on a Major League roster. Most that have had the opportunity to watch him (myself included) do not like the long swing and K tendencies. We shall see and if we can’t get our DH situation sorted this season, Mitch might have a spot ready for him come 2011
What's the rumpus?
by Hypo-Luxa on Jan 6, 2010 11:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
K tendencies
Mitch Moreland struck out about 12% of the time last year. That’s perfectly in line with his career across 3 levels (and his college career). The only Rangers prospect who could claim a lower K rate was Julio Borbon (who checked in at about 9%).
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
by FirebatM3 on Jan 6, 2010 11:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
To elaborate
Mitch Moreland, to me, is quite unlike Botts in almost every way. Botts struck out quite a bit, easily doubling and sometimes tripling Moreland’s strikeout rates. But there was no question about his power.
Moreland is a much more polished hitter. Low K rates, decent walk rates (though it dovetailed a bit in AA), solid linedrive rates across the board at every level, hits lefties better than he hits righties despite being a lefty himself. His question is about power and whether or not they’ll be closer to his A Clinton/Bakersfield levels or AA Frisco levels.
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
by FirebatM3 on Jan 6, 2010 11:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mitch
There’s no question Moreland is a good looking prospect. The fact, that he is graded as a B- for me was the surprising part. As far as the K Rate being only 12% (of which that number surprises me), is that still good enough for a B-? Obviously to Jon, it is, and I am excited about that. I was just thinking coming into this exercise that Mitch’s ability would get him into the C’s.
What's the rumpus?
by Hypo-Luxa on Jan 6, 2010 11:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Considering
the average, the power profile and such, that’s really good. He has ?s, but ability to make contact shouldn’t be one of them.
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
by FirebatM3 on Jan 7, 2010 12:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Given that the biggest controversy in ranking prospects is how much to weight upside
vs chances of reaching that upside, have you thought about showing 3 grades - Upside, Chance of Reaching, and Overall? It seems like this list particularly is filled with lower rated guys with much better upside than others with similar B/C+/C grades.
If having 3 letter grades is too confusing, how about an overall letter grade with a one word description for upside vs chance of reaching, like Great, Good, Fair, Poor?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 6, 2010 11:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yikes, I didn't want the strikethrough.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 6, 2010 11:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
McKamey has 2 grades, a number grade (1-10) for potential and a letter grade (A-E) for odds of reaching that potential. I’m a very big fan of that.
by jfish26101 on Jan 6, 2010 11:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I always like the idea
but whever I try to execute it I find it very hard to keep it consistent and fair…
Its a lot more work and Im not sure it really accomplishes much. Its one step closer to understanding for a layman looking at the list and not knowing anyone. So… they should probably just learn about the player. As a quick shorthand, a letter grade is ok. A letter grade and a second rating of risk would be better – but its just a little bit more work to read a sentence which much more thoroughly describes the player.
I usually get 3 or 4 teams in and find I dont like the level of consistency I have at all.
by alskor on Jan 7, 2010 12:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure...
I get Starlin Castro’s upside. He seems like that prospect that gets overhyped just as a farm system is about to pump out talent. I like some guys in our system quite a bit more, though I respect his polish and ability to impress at such a young age.
by SenorGato on Jan 6, 2010 11:36 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
what?
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Jan 7, 2010 12:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Seems like Boscan's stock keeps dropping
in the minds of smart baseball people. Is that an outgrowth of having so many good prospects, or is he losing his luster?
That's why they call them business sox
by egriffey on Jan 6, 2010 11:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
He's just not a #1 or #2
Still a solid prospect. I think he just got over-hyped early on last season.
by FelizCheez on Jan 7, 2010 1:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorta the same thing that happened to Poveda this year
His strikeout rate did a swirlie, only it happened to Boscan at a much lower level.
If the Rangers were in the playoffs... the soundtrack could be one long continuous fart, and I would love it. - cmkelly
by lonestarJon on Jan 7, 2010 1:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You are under rating Poveda....
I think he will either be a #2-3 type, or a terrific middle reliever.
by soccerman0 on Jan 7, 2010 12:29 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
there is nothing wrong with an innings eater
but he has had comparisons to Shields, and I think Poveda has the assortment that he could possibly reach that ceiling. He is still very young and will be in AAA
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
by NothinG on Jan 7, 2010 1:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I bet
Come this time next season, Main and Perez are A’s and Font and Scheppers are A-’s.
Also a B+ in Robbie Ross.
by FelizCheez on Jan 7, 2010 1:35 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
and the Rangers win the WS!!
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Jan 7, 2010 1:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What do you think about Braden Tullis and his ability to breakout next year
he has a very good GB/FB ratio and pretty good K rate right now.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
by NothinG on Jan 7, 2010 1:47 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I agree
He had a very under the radar successful season for his age and level.
by auclairkeithbc on Jan 7, 2010 2:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Chad Tracy
I’m not making a pitch for him to make the list. Just wondering if anyone can provide a scouting report on the outfield defense.
by StickRat on Jan 7, 2010 1:48 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
he's a DH
What a drag it is being broke.
by tricer on Jan 7, 2010 9:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, probably.
Better in LF than at 1B. He’s probably still got the ability to be a passable emergency catcher, too.
by NoNameOnCard on Jan 7, 2010 2:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree about the better in LF than 1B, as hard as that may be for folks to believe. Like you guys said, I don’t really think he’s every day caliber at any spot, but he has some low end versatility. Knowing MLB managers, however, most would probably hesitate to use him there, even though he’d serve fine as an emergency guy.
by Brett Perryman on Jan 8, 2010 12:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
last sentence, in reference to catcher
by Brett Perryman on Jan 8, 2010 12:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Tanner Scheppers
Given the shaky, fragile nature of his moving parts, would you develop him as a starter or as a late-inning thrower?
by Conjunction on Jan 7, 2010 7:54 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Scheppers...
Almost an A-? Am I the only one that is baffled that a guy who has yet to throw a single pro pitch is “almost A-”? I’ll give it to Strasburg, but if Scheppers was anywhere near that good he would have been drafted higher than the supplemental round (even with the signability questions).
Even at B+ you have him at the same grade as Drabek who will be Top 25 in pretty much every list.
by metafour on Jan 7, 2010 2:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, hard to give someone coming off an injury who probably has a 30-40% chance of ending up in the pen an A- without throwing a pitch in affiliate ball. If the shoulder is bad, he may never even throw a pitch in the bigs. Pretty low floor if you ask me, plenty of potential but let’s at least try to manage the risk.
by jfish26101 on Jan 7, 2010 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
other than Strastburg
Scheppers was the most impressive pitcher in the AFL. The only reason he went as low as he did, was purely based on his shoulder from a couple years ago or so. He had some of the highest rated pure stuff in the 09 draft.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
by NothinG on Jan 7, 2010 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think he or I are denying that? I’m not sure many would deny that but does floor/risk not matter at all?
by jfish26101 on Jan 7, 2010 3:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
sure, but the measure of it depends on who you talk to
some people choose the high ceiling/ high risk guy. Sickels did mention the injury and dropped him to a B+ because of it. A guy that hits 97-99 and has a plus breaking ball that will get swing and misses at the next level is nice. I, personally, don’t care if he has a B+ or C+. If he stays healthy, he profiles as an ace.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
by NothinG on Jan 7, 2010 3:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He's a pretty ridiculous talent.
You want to drop him below guys who profile as #3 starters just because he hasnt pitched professionally?
Not me. I’ll take a chance on the kid who throws very hard with nasty stuff. Those guys tend to do pretty well when they do finally pitch professionally.
by alskor on Jan 7, 2010 4:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Once again
The point isnt to find the safest players who will be MLB producers. The point of this for me is to find the best players.
by alskor on Jan 7, 2010 4:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So you don’t care how far you are off or how many times you are off as long as you don’t miss the top guys?
by jfish26101 on Jan 7, 2010 4:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that's not really what he said
you make a valued judgment on a possible projection of future performance. there are no guarantees. Sickels makes his judgments based on his gathered info. and even if Scheppers gets hurt, it’s still a defensible position.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
by NothinG on Jan 7, 2010 4:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No, I definitely do
Its a big concern. I just think a lot of people overreact. Scouting reports need to play a much bigger role – can’t just automatically discount every amateur the same – that’s a less than effective treatment to my mind.
Its a farce to think that a guy like Scheppers with filthy stuff is a complete unknown and should be docked for it while a guy with the ceiling of a #4 starter in A+ should get extra credit for performing well in the low minors.
All prospects are inherently risky – its a joke to pretend that we can separate the risky from the safe so easily.
To put presumptive safe bets over really talented players is generally a bad idea IMO, because then we end up (as I said in my Red Sox thread) lying to ourselves. If we ran a franchise is there a chance in hell anyone takes say, Kiker over Scheppers? No way. Would never happen and makes no sense. That’s an extreme example, but you can see how it would apply in other cases…
by alskor on Jan 7, 2010 4:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you know just how many players are really talented? I imagine you do. To rank them all as if their best case scenario is more than the 5-10% chance it is is pretty dangerous. I’m not suggesting ranking a guy like Jeff Locke over Scheppers, I’m not sure I’d even put a guy like Hector Rondon over Scheppers, but to say “let’s give him a A- based on his raw stuff despite all of the risks” seems like pretty suspect prospecting. You have to weigh that risk with the potential.
by jfish26101 on Jan 7, 2010 4:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This is different than ranking them by upside
I feel like I am weighing risk with potential accurately. On potential, Scheppers is one of the best talents in the game. To give him a B would be kind of ridiculous for me. Everyone knows there is risk there. Who are we worried about? People who dont know prospects at all and just look at the list quickly?
by alskor on Jan 7, 2010 4:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But how is that weighing risk? You just said we know there is risk but who cares?
by jfish26101 on Jan 7, 2010 4:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No I said I feel Ive weighted it accurately
He’s an A+ talent, so a B+ or A- is a not insignificant discount for risk and injury IMHO.
Its just a question of degree. If he were downgraded more than that I would say that’s way too much adjustment for risk and injury and too little recognition of his talent.
Is there some standard discount you’ve found for risk that youre using? I havent seen one. Its just a personal preference and every expert does it differently. There’s no “right” way.
by alskor on Jan 7, 2010 4:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Who has John ever given an A+ to? He is an A+ talent? So Greinke, Lincecum, Pujols, Bonds, type talent?
Wow, this is insane. What is Strasburg then? Is Scheppers better than Strasburg in your eyes?
by jfish26101 on Jan 7, 2010 5:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, I guess youre right.
I guess there is only way system for discounting for risk and injury – and its yours. Everybody else is wrong.
by alskor on Jan 7, 2010 5:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No, there are plenty of ways but I had no idea you thought Scheppers was a HoF player. I suppose a B-/C+ for a HoF player would be ridiculous but here I was silly for thinking he hasn’t thrown a pitch yet with serious concerns for his arm. I’m honestly astounded you think that highly of him, proceed along, nothing to see here.
by jfish26101 on Jan 7, 2010 5:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I just think he's an A+ kind of talent
If you ranked on pure talent, Scheppers Strasburg and Feliz are the first name that come to mind. I dont think its just me, either.
Teams take risks because of the rewards
Tanner Scheppers, RHP, Rangers (AFL: Surprise)
Yesterday’s stats: 2 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 2 KIn his first three outings, Scheppers has faced 16 batters and retired 14 of them, giving up a hit and a walk while striking out six. As good of reviews as his 95-98 mph fastball obviously generate, his breaking ball is earning nearly equal raves. It’s a true power curveball with heavy top-to-bottom action that he delivers at 80-84 mph, the kind of velocity some pitchers have on their slider. Few pitchers in the game need the ol’ ‘if he can stay healthy’ mantra in front of any projection, but if he can stay healthy, he could be elite.
http://baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=9689
Tanner Scheppers, Rangers (Rafters): Scheppers arguably had the best arm strength of anyone in this year’s draft, but he also had medical reports that where troubling enough that some scouting directors were told not to even consider picking him. His $1.25 million bonus is a pretty expensive lottery ticket, but the payout could be fabulous.
http://baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=9648
– Keith Law“Tanner Scheppers, a supplemental pick by the Texas Rangers this year who signed for first-round money, was even more impressive than Cashner, sitting at 95-98 with a vicious curveball with hard, late two-plane break. He appeared to be amped up for the short outing; I doubt he’d sit at that velocity as a starter, but even 92-95 with that breaking ball would get hitters out multiple times per game. His arm works well, and his potential to be a front-line starter is really just a question of the state of his shoulder.”
http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4576383&name=law_keith
Eric (Ft. Worth)
Everything I’ve read from the AFL has raved about Tanner Scheppers so far. Do you see anything with his delivery that concerns you, and are there any other pitchers you’d slot him behind in that system other than Feliz and Perez?
Klaw (1:38 PM)
Arm works fine. Just concerned about the known injury to his shoulder, but if he’s throwing great and not reporting pain or soreness, then there isn’t much point in worrying about him since he’s already under control.
http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/29094/mlb-insider-keith-law
Maybe A+ talent is too strong, sure… he’s an elite talent with elite stuff, though. I have zero doubt that if there was no shoulder injury he would be talked about as on of the top prospects in baseball.
by alskor on Jan 7, 2010 5:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not many guys get A+
because almost everyone has some risk or weakness. There are guys who have A+ talent, but it’s hard to think of one that doesn’t have at least some weakness or injury risk (every pitcher has some injury risk).
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Jan 7, 2010 6:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He's thrown a pitch
against arguably better competition than regular season AA, too.
by Brett Perryman on Jan 8, 2010 12:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Haha
So without the injury, he is a A-? I thought John tended to be conservative with his grades? I’ll admit his ceiling is that of an ace (given the stuff) but you can’t ignore the concerns. GL with all of it, 20-30 B+ or better players from the looks of the comments.
by jfish26101 on Jan 7, 2010 3:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
i was merely pointing out that is Sickels rating
and perhaps some of the reasoning behind it. Pitching is an unnatural act, and therefore every pitcher is a risk. I would put Scheppers ahead of almost any HS pitcher drafted purely because it is such a crapshoot, and Scheppers looks poised to start in AA with an opportunity to be in the Bigs in ’11 or even in the bullpen as a late callup in Sept. Some have talked that he might move that fast.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
by NothinG on Jan 7, 2010 4:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pitching is not unnatural.
Human’s evolved so that the ones who could throw spears and hunt were the ones that survived. Throwing things isn’t as natural as running or picking something up, but it definitely is not unnatural.
Don’t take this personally; I just absolutely hate the way people spit that phrase out like it’s a well known fact.
by NoNameOnCard on Jan 7, 2010 7:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i don't take it personally
but looking at sports – the most injury prone position would probably be pitchers and their arms because the joints/muscles usually don’t stand well under the pressure of throwing a baseball frequently.
It is probably a little bit different throwing a spear every now and then to throwing 120 pitches every 5 days plus work between.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
by NothinG on Jan 7, 2010 8:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sapiens Sapiens also evolved quite readily
to roll their eyes when sports bloggers begin talking about hominids and sinkers. The utility of the adaptation has allowed for a # of useful cultural developments….
by Goyogringo on Jan 8, 2010 1:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Please elaborate.
I’d love to read your take on shoulder and elbow articulations, how they evolved, and they are used in the pitching motion.
by NoNameOnCard on Jan 8, 2010 2:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the adaptive "eye roll"
not the shoulder. Given that you need to articulate a reductive unilineal argument about the evoution of both the shoulder and the elbow over 5 million years since our genus separated from our common chimp ancester based on a complex cultural phenomenon (complex hunting behavior) that likely did not materialize until about 100kya I think you are the one at a disadvantage. Sais another way, behavior does not fossilize. Now we do have some time in this forum for that kind of thing after all but not that much time. I always look forward to a good speculative yarn though that integrates the many competing camps and sparse evidence among the physical anthropology crowd..
Speaking of that crowd, there was a funny story – though surely Profar-like apocrypha – heard in or around the rickety hot coffee dispensers at one of their most recent international forums. A biomechanical specialist had somehow made his way onto a panel called “the prehistory of throwing” (the vetting process for proposed papers is not what it once was it seems though professional associations do tend to favor the 600$ registration fee in hard times).
His own presentation – “did homo habilis throw like a chimp?” – was quickly drowned out by gaffaawws and pointed arguments about other critical issues related to the evolution of our modern genus: the hand, the wrist, the foot, bipedalism, vision, reproductive success, the butt, foramen magnum, forearm, braincase and last but not least brain size. Or as Jules once said: “Check out the big brain on Brett. Your a smart motherfucker!”
by Goyogringo on Jan 8, 2010 1:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't have a problem admitting that some pitchers throw unnaturally, but
pitching in and of itself is not unnatural.
by NoNameOnCard on Jan 8, 2010 2:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The joints and muscles don't stand well under the pressure of bad mechanics.
With proper mechanics and a sufficient training period, pitchers could throw significantly more than “120 pitches every 5 days plus work in between.”
by NoNameOnCard on Jan 8, 2010 2:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It is a fairly well-established fact
…that the specific dynamics involved in pitching are not natural throwing dynamics. i suppose it may not be considered a well-known fact though.
by auclairkeithbc on Jan 7, 2010 8:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Tom House's mechanics are unnatural.
I will give you that. Outside of that, I will challenge how well that fact is actually established.
by NoNameOnCard on Jan 8, 2010 2:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
wow everybody knew this system was good
but are they really better than Cleveland’s system?
I'd rather have Nick Punto playing 3B and Felipe Lopez playing 2B
than Punto playing 2B and Kouzy, Crede, DeRosa or Glaus playing 3B.
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Jan 7, 2010 5:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
they are better at the top..
but not as a whole.. depth wise
by matthewmafa on Jan 7, 2010 5:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It wouldn't take very many of the C+ guys to step up to easily surpass Cleveland.
Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.
by rooster on Jan 7, 2010 5:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The depth
at the lower levels is pretty ridiculous. The way someone described it is that their 1-4 is top 3 in baseball, the 5-20 are middle of the road, but the 20+ are the best baseball have to offer.
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
by FirebatM3 on Jan 7, 2010 5:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cleveland
has a decided advantage in the back half of the top ten. They are both really deep, though, when you start talking about how many fairly legitimate, interesting prospects they have outside of their top 20 or so.
by Brett Perryman on Jan 8, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
now why did i get flamed
when i said this was the best system in the rangers top 10 community discussion? sounds right to me
by son.of.sourman on Jan 8, 2010 12:59 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
BOOO!!!
That kind of talk can get you banned from a place like this!
by auclairkeithbc on Jan 8, 2010 9:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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