Discussion Question: Derek Holland vs. David Price
by John Sickels on Sep 30, 2009 3:14 PM EDT
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PrintToday's question is the Battle of the Rookie Lefties: Derek Holland vs. David Price. Who would you rather have for the next ten years?
Some basic stats: Holland K/9 7.09; BB/9 3.20; K/BB, 2.21; FIP 5.24, age 22.
Price K/9 7.20; BB/9 3.86; K/BB, 1.87: FIP 4.67, age 24.
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Control is key
I vote Holland.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
holland by a good margin
hes younger, has better control, strikes out same amount of guys… and actually has a good wipeout slider unlike price whose slider was always overrated to me…and he has almost completely abandoned it…
don’t know if he has better control. http://www.draysbay.com/2009/7/27/962933/the-david-price-pitchfx-analysis explains how Price was getting ‘squeezed’ earlier in the year.
every pitcher gets squeezed
they just made a big deal out of it
pitch fx analysis > your opinion
Who loves orange soda?
by Kenan and Kel on Oct 1, 2009 3:08 AM EDT up reply actions
really?
then go check how Holland was also getting squeezed this year…and the umps admitted it b/c he “hadn’t earned it yet”.
"The mystery of the beginning of all things is insoluble by us; and I for one must be content to remain an agnostic" - Charles Darwin, you know who he is...
Link?
To articles with quotes from umps admitting they’re squeezing? Also, gotta link to any pitchfx data?
My point was simply that I’ll take a claim substantiated by data over an opinion from a fan.
Who loves orange soda?
by Kenan and Kel on Oct 1, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
John Sickels your polls suck!
I’m not trying to be negative but after evaluating your polls I’ve come to the conclusion that they are meaningless. Your information is weak because it’s base off of convience and because it has too high of a sample error.
For the last few months I’ve been studying research methods and without a doubt these polls have both a low internal and external validity which will result into an extremley poor evaluation.
I was able to vote more than once and voted for both Holland and Price. I did this to see if it actually would let me, which it did. Now that is bad for your research because for all you know a David Price homer could have voted for him 150 times. Also your form of sampling is one of the weakest methods possible, and with your results we’re unable to determine any kind of difference from voter to voter. If you’re going to keep this than I suggest you apply an SRS method (Simple random survey) to ensure randomness since you can’t do a census.
Now I have a feeling that you don’t care and odds are you created these polls to give you a second opinion, or perhaps to engage and spark conversation. Either way I’m just saying I won’t take a lot from these because when evaluating this research on accuarcy I can only conclude that it’s crap. Now you as a baseball researcher I believe to be excellent, but in no way will these polls lead you to anything more than entertainment.
by johnnycomelately9 on Oct 1, 2009 5:07 AM EDT reply actions
settle down
Settle down Beavis.
I’m just trying to spark a conversation. This isn’t “research” in anything more than the vaguest sense.
by John Sickels on Oct 1, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
A little bit of both Yosted
I wasn’t trying to be a jerk (which I was) or get all crazy about who’s best between Holland-Price. I was just trying to show you that if you want to scope the general’s perception correctly, you can! Even over the internet, but not like this.
Since this was created to spark conversation I guess I did my part. Keep up your good work John, and don’t call me names.
by johnnycomelately9 on Oct 3, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm glad you're learning about statistics, but...
Internet straw polls are, by definition, unscientific. Everyone who takes them is self-selected. If you attempted to use the results of one of these polls as a data point, your conclusions would be flawed. This isn’t research — it is an internet widget that you can click on a bunch of times if you care to.
John just uses these polls as conversation starters, as you guessed. Oftentimes, he gets a pretty good conversation.
http://www.chop-n-change.com
by alexwithclass on Oct 1, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I stand corrected
Now it’s not letting me vote again so I’m wondering how it happened? Either way don’t put a lot of stock into sampling (like this) because error is always high.
by johnnycomelately9 on Oct 1, 2009 5:10 AM EDT reply actions
You mean what people say on the internet… doesn’t matter? But I’ve been spending so much time correcting people. Is that time just gone… wasted?
charity standing orders
by BadMaafala on Oct 1, 2009 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks
for your advice. i work for the Texas Rangers FO and was contemplating a recommendation to trade Holland if he lost this poll. Thanks to your earth shattering discovery that these polls are meaningless, I’ve decided to table my recommendation for now.
by saltybiscuits on Oct 1, 2009 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Wow
I thought I was pretty jaded, but JCL9, you took my breath away! lol
What can I say, I was feeling bold (not jaded) and wanted to drop some knowledge
When you win a huge poker tournment online (that night) you’ll begin to filter yourself less. You won’t be able to sleep, the excitement will overtake you, and eventually you’ll begin spilling out truth in a somewhat distasteful manner.
At least that’s what happened to me.
by johnnycomelately9 on Oct 3, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I wonder what you'll learn in statistics tomrrow?
reeeeelllllaaaaaaaax
Johnnycomecochrane
The On-line Poker euphoira defense! That made my day. Sincerely. Oh, and I think people are really underrating Price now that he’s struggled a bit. That said, I wasn’t blown away by his stuff even in his coming out against the Sox last year, which didn’t seem congruent with conventional wisdom. Regardless, he’s got a lot of years to deliver on his promise. I think this is one of the tougher questions as both these guys have a good ways to go to achieve their respective ceilings. Big ifs with both.
by blackoutyears on Oct 8, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Holland
I’ll take Derek as he is two years younger. Pretty much a toss up in my mind though.
I think the fact that Price was the #1 overall pick and is a little more hyped than Holland is swaying the masses
cuz this is pretty much a deadlock tie if not sliding towards Holland’s side if you way all the factors. In terms of pure stuff its hard to say from this year if one has better pure stuff than the other, both can bring it up to mid to upper 90’s on rare occasions and both are great lefties. The stats pretty much are equal. While Holland is also under control for an extra year I think(?) .
I dont know, its a pretty hard call, and definitely not a 70-30 slide
Feliz says his greatest thrill was striking out Boston Red Sox DH David Ortiz, one of his heroes. Yet, when he called to tell his parents, his mother had a request: Strike out New York Yankees third baseman Alex Rodriguez, too.
"So when I did that," Feliz says, "I told my mom, 'There you go. There's your present. Don't ask me to strike anyone else out, OK?'
You're probably right
More people are voting on reputation than are voting on having seen both multiple times and making their own evaluation. But that holds true for just about every opinion regarding minor leaguers or young pitchers.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
That's why he isn't a part of the poll.
The point is to pick two similar players and pit them against each other.
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