Best Farm System of the Decade?
by timmy3 on Sep 22, 2009 12:36 PM EDT
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Minor League baseball is effectively done for the 00's decade, and while decades are arbitrary lengths of time, I thought it would be an interesting discussion to see which teams have grown the most talent from 2000-2009. I made a quick list for the Braves, since that's the franchise I know best, but I'd like to see how that stacks up against the other 29 teams.
Rafael Furcal (2000)
Jason Marquis (2000)
Damien Moss (2000)
Wilson Betemit (2001)
Marcus Giles (2001)
Dan Meyer (2004)
Adam LaRoche (2004)
Adam Wainwright (2005)
Brian McCann (2005)
Jeff Francoeur (2005)
Kelly Johnson (2005)
Andy Marte (2005)
Ryan Langerhans (2005)
Kyle Davies (2005)
Chuck James (2005)
Joey Devine (2005)
Zach Miner (2006)
Peter Moylan (2006)
Jarrod Saltalamacchia (2007)
Yunel Escobar (2007)
Martin Prado (2007)
Brandon Jones (2007)
Jo-Jo Reyes (2007)
Matt Harrison (2008)
Charlie Morton (2008)
Jordan Schafer (2009)
Elvis Andrus (2009)
Neftali Feliz (2009)
Tommy Hanson (2009)
Kris Medlen (2009)
Tyler Flowers (2009)
Jason Heyward (Minors)
Freddie Freeman (Minors)
Craig Kimbrel (Minors)
Julio Teheran (Minors)
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Notable Marlins off the top of my head
Adrian Gonzalez (drafted 2000, traded 2003)
A.J. Burnett (rookie eligible in 2000)
Brad Penny (2000)
Josh Beckett (2001)
Miguel Cabrera (2003)
Dontrelle Willis (2003)
Hanley Ramirez (2005)
Dan Uggla (2006)
Josh Johnson (2006)
Cam Maybin (2009)
Mike Stanton (minors)
Matt Dominguez (minors)
Logan Morrison (minors)
Also Uggla...
Uggla was a Rule Fiver from the D-Backs org. Don’t think you can credit the Marlins for him either.
"growing talent"
I’d agree that Uggla shouldn’t be on the list as a rule 5, but Willis and Maybin spent time in the Marlins minor leagues, so it could be argued that the Marlins developed them as much as the cubs or tigers
What qualifies as "credit"?
In that case then Maybin is the Tigers and Willis belongs to the Cubs.
I’d say if a player was in a team’s farm system for at least a half season as the last stop on the way to making their ML debut with that club then they should be able to claim partial credit.
Some of these lists will overlap because 2 (or even 3 in some cases) teams can claim them.
Guys who are traded this year in high A (the midpoint of a players minor league development) should they be considered the claim of the old team or the new team? For instance, Jason Knapp, is he the Phillies or Indians prospect 5 years from now, or couldn’t he be both?
by two fishsticks on Sep 22, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Considering that
Neither Hanley nor Uggla spent any tangible time in the Marlins’ minor league system, I don’t think there’s much debate there.
My instinct would be to say at least a season-plus in a team’s system constitutes some sort of credit. Preferably two…
That's a stretch
He made far more appearances as a minor leaguer in the Florida system and all of his minor league work above the short-season level was with them. He’s a Fish.
by realitypolice on Sep 23, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd say
anyone who is in your system before they lose rookie eligibility counts.
I wouldn’t say the Mets come close, although their system is warming up as the decade comes to a close. For the 2000s:
David Wright
Jose Reyes
Scott Kazmir
Mike Pelfrey
Heath Bell
Brian Bannister
Jay Payton
Marco Scuatro
Melvin Mora
Ty Wigginton
Dan Murphy
Endy Chavez
Nick Evans
Jeff Keppinger
Matt Lindstrom
Victor Diaz
Timo Perez
Carlos Perez
Aaron Heilman
John Maine (I know, really an Oriole)
Wait, there’s more…
Yes he does
His only major league time prior to 2000 was 31 at bats in 1999. He joined the Mets system in 1998 from Houston. He entered the majors from the Mets system, and was still a rookie in 2000.
And he peaked at .340/.419/.562 so he was actually one of the best the Mets can claim.
Didn't he play a bunch in the 99 playoffs?
Just off the top of my head, i recall that he was kind of a big deal for that post-season run.
Matthew Poulliot sort of tackled a similar question
http://bases.nbcsports.com/system/mt-search.cgi?blog_id=20&tag=restoring%20the%20rosters&limit=20
Although he considered all active major leaguers, not just ones from this decade, meaning that the Mariners aren’t probably in the discussion at all.
Cardinals
Albert Pujols
Adam Wainwright
Dan Haren
Colby Rasmus
Brett Wallace
Yadier Molina
Coco Crisp
Rest is pretty blah.
wainwright
if you claim haren and crisp, you can’t claim adam….
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
by biggentleben on Sep 22, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
You're right
Consider Waino removed
Albert Pujols
Dan Haren
Colby Rasmus
Brett Wallace
Yadier Molina
Coco Crisp
Its nice to get a superstar every once in a while, but the Cardinals are terrible at developing complementary players, that just play everyday and give you slightly above average production. Brendan Ryan is having a good year, but thats still pretty weak.
ummmm
Haren is an A.
Wainwright is a Brave.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Sep 23, 2009 4:34 AM EDT up reply actions
whooopps..
you’re claiming Haren as a Card. fine.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Sep 23, 2009 4:35 AM EDT up reply actions
this
….would be a very interesting study to do…maybe something based on a measure of how many all-stars each system produced or how many players produced put up a certain level of season…that way the pete orrs of the world aren’t added to any list…
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
Note how I kept Orr off the list I made. :)
But I did include the big-name prospect busts like Marte, because look how valuable he’s been to the organization. Marte became Renteria, who later became Jair Jurrjens and half of Nate McLouth. So even the busts can be a big deal, simply producing a top prospect has some major value.
Q: If on-base pct is so important then why don't they put it on the scoreboard? -Failcoeur
A: Because the Braves don't want to show their fans how bad you suck.
Well
The Cubs are pretty far down.
I don’t know about best system for the decade, but the Red Sox organization has been very well run this decade, and it seems like for most of the decade, their system was fairly strong. Might not have ranked 1 at any point in time (that I recall …) but it sure seems like they were steady as a top system for most of this decade.
Cubs
Their position prospects are pretty pathetic, but they’ve been one of the best in the majors when it comes to producing pitchers. From the article posted above, you have the following names…
First Line
Rotation
Carlos Zambrano
Ricky Nolasco
Kyle Lohse
Randy Wells
Jon Garland
Bullpen
Carlos Marmol
Kerry Wood
Scott Downs
Angel Guzman
Michael Wuertz
Sean Marshall
Renyel Pinto
Second Line
Rotation
Jamie Moyer
Todd Wellemeyer
Dontrelle Willis
Rich Hill
Sean Gallagher
Bullpen
Juan Cruz
Kyle Farnsworth
Jerry Blevins
Will Ohman
Justin Speier
Jeff Samardzija
Sergio Mitre
That’s just counting active major league players. Mark Prior’s name would figure prominently in this list otherwise.
by Outshined_One on Sep 22, 2009 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
i know he didn't last long
But prior had more value than some of those guys\
Moyer wasn't in the Cubs system in the last decade
If this was the best farm system of the 1920’s, then you might be able to list him ;-)
IF I WAS MANAGER I'D HAVE A FIST FIGHT WITH YUNI RIGHT NOW AND KNOCK HIS FUCKING MONKEY HEAD CLEAN OFF (~EM)
by seattlecougar on Sep 24, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
by position?
which team would field the best starting nine, plus a 5 man rotation and bullpen?
Dodgers?
C: Russell Martin
1B: James Loney
2B: Delwyn Young
3B: Adrian Beltre
SS: Chin Lung-Hu
LF: Andrew Lambo
CF: Matt Kemp
RF: Cody Ross
DH:Carlos Santana
SP: Chad Billingsley
SP: Clayton Kershaw
SP: Edwin Jackson
SP: James McDonald
SP: Scott Elbert
CL: Jonathan Broxton
SU: Hong Chih-Kuo
wrong decade for Beltre, right?
otherwise, i’d put Konerko in there somewhere too.
you can shift Russell Martin over to third though (and save his knees from impending doom), and put Santana (or else David Ross or Dioner Navarro) behind the plate.
also, the outfield should definitely include Shane Victorino. Jayson Werth is a bigger stretch, since he’d had 94 ABs over two seasons with Toronto already.
by bleedjaxblue on Sep 25, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
The Angels?
I thought Johan spent his entire minor league career with the Astros organization before being a rule V pick by Minnesota. I do know the guy we now know as Ervin Santana was also known as Johan Santana before he changed his name to Ervin (my 2003 Baseball America prospect book has him still listed as Johan Santana on the Angels’ list) so that he and ‘the other Johan’ wouldn’t be confused with one another.
That was my haha
I sometimes wonder if Johan the Cy paid off The pitcher formerly known as Cy-less Johan to proactively eliminate any confusion. Then again, who amongst us doesn’t get giddy at the prospect of dueling Johans?
Chicks Dig The Long Ball.
I believe
Johan started a Marlin, then went to the ’Stros then to the Twins.
Mets
C: Jason Phillips
1B: Daniel Murphy
2B: Ty Wigginton
3B: David Wright
SS: Jose Reyes
LF: Nick Evans
CF: Fernando Martinez
RF: Lastings Milledge
Wow. That lineup sucks.
SP: Scott Kazmir
SP: Mike Pelfrey
SP: Brian Bannister
SP: Jon Niese
SP: I totally can’t think of anyone else worth mentioning
CP: Heath Bell
SU: Aaron Heilman, Matt Lindstrom
Heilman
should have been returned to a starter, I thought.
Mike Adams was also briefly a Mets minor leaguer. He’s turned out to be pretty good, but he was a Twins prospect for a long time.
Mike Adams
I thought Adams had already spent a considerable time in the majors before he got to the Mets.
by Lunkwill Fook on Sep 23, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
you're correct
I missed 50 some odd innings with Milwaukee in 2004. It was only 13 in 2005 the year before he got to the Mets, so i thought he was still rookie-eligible.
In a couple of years
maybe it’ll look better if Mejia, Holt, Niese, Familia, Niesen and Allen can produce a few good ones, same with Thole, Tejada, Martinez, Davis, Havens, Niewenhuis, Flores. Seems like their best overall crop in a while.
Yeah, but what team can't say that?
Most of those guys probably aren’t going to pan out and, if you include them, we still haven’t developed many outfielders in the past ten years.
by Lunkwill Fook on Sep 23, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Correct
He had 60 big league appearances over the better part of two years with MILWAUKEE (not Minn) before spending 14.2 innings in the Mets farm system for a couple of months.
by realitypolice on Sep 23, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
bad eyesight this morning
need more coffee before posting.
I'd also include Carlos Gomez
Who can’t hit for crap right now, but is blazing fast and might be the best defensive OFer in the majors
Jason Bay is a bit of a stretch since he came from Montreal in the first place and then went to the Padres. Too many systems with the Mets in the middle. Gomez I’d take credit for. Maybe replace Evans or Milledge with Gomez, I guess.
by Lunkwill Fook on Sep 26, 2009 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Mets 2000-2009
CA Jesus Flores (rule 5 out of Mets)
1B Daniel Murphy (wish I could count Ike)
2B Ty Wigginton
3B David Wright
SS Jose Reyes
LF Fernando Martinez
CF Angel Pagan
RF Lastings Milledge
BN Carlos Gomez
BN Mike Jacobs
BN Justin Huber
BN Josh Thole
BN Nick Evans
[Melvin Mora, Marco Scutaro, and Jeff Keppinger all also debuted with the Mets, but weren’t orginally drafted/signed by them]
SP Scott Kazmir
SP Mike Pelfrey
SP Brian Bannister
SP Jon Niese
SP Petit? Seo?
BP Heath Bell
BP Matt Lindstrom
BP Bobby Parnell
BP Aaron Heilman
BP Tyler Yates
BP Joe Smith
BP Len DiNardo
BP Neil Musser
by acerimusdux on Sep 27, 2009 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions
You think that sucks???
Try doing this list for the Padres:
C: Your best options are George Kottaras or Nick Hundley
1B: Since Adrian doesn’t count you’ve got… Kyle Blanks
2B: Josh Barfield
SS: Khalil Greene
3B: Chase Headley
LF: Jason Bay (who is really a stretch to count)
CF: Freddy Guzman (yes, really. Otherwise, Ben Johnson?)
RF: Xavier Nady
SP Jake Peavy
SP Oliver Perez
SP Brian Lawrence
SP Mat Latos
SP Adam Eaton
Eaton and Perez
Were always better in theory (and certainly, in their own minds) than they were in reality.
by realitypolice on Sep 23, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Awful drafting team
There must be other things Kevin Towers does well, but those Padres first round picks have been awful. Makes Steve Phillips, Jim Duquette and Omar Minaya look like geniuses.
by acerimusdux on Sep 27, 2009 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Just to give it the lineup/rotation/bullpen layout for the Braves…
C: Brian McCann
1B: Adam LaRoche
2B: Kelly Johnson
3B: Yunel Escobar
SS Elvis Andrus
LF: Jeff Francoeur
CF: Jordan Schafer
RF: Jason Heyward
DH: Tyler Flowers
UTIL: Rafael Furcal
UTIL: Martin Prado
I think I should move Kelly Johnson back to the OF so I don’t have to include Failcoeur lol. Otherwise that’s a pretty damn nice lineup.
Rotation:
SP: Adam Wainwright
SP: Tommy Hanson
SP: Kyle Davies
SP: Jason Marquis
SP: Matt Harrison
SP: Charlie Morton
Bullpen:
Neftali Feliz (maybe a starter also?)
Peter Moylan
Kris Medlen
Craig Kimbrel
Joey Devine
Dan Meyer
Zach Miner
Jo-Jo Reyes
Q: If on-base pct is so important then why don't they put it on the scoreboard? -Failcoeur
A: Because the Braves don't want to show their fans how bad you suck.
Rays
C- Dioner Navarro
1B-Aubrey Huff
2B- Ben Zobrist/Jorge Cantu
SS- Reid Brignac
3B- Evan Longoria
OF- BJ Upton, Carl Crawford, Desmond Jennings, Matt Diaz, Elijah Dukes, Delmon Young, Rocco Baldelli
SP
David Price
James Shields
Edwin Jackson (if he counts)
Jeff Niemann
Jeremy Hellickson
Jason Hammel
Chad Gaudin
Jennings, Hellickson, Davis, Brignac, Beckham, Moore > Your top 3
Navarro as Ray = FAIL
He never wore a Rays minor league uniform and had more than 100 major league games (for two organizations) under his belt before arriving in Tampa.
by realitypolice on Sep 23, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
And no on Jackson too
And I’d say no on Zobrist for that matter.
by realitypolice on Sep 23, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah
jackson was a dodger
navaro sucks and is a yankee or dodger i think
and zobrist will always be an astro in his heart
I think you have to give Zobrist to the Rays.
When traded to TB, he had been in the Astros’ minor leagues for 2+ years and risen to AA. Afterwards, he spent parts of 3 seasons in the Rays’ minor league system, the bulk of 2007 there. And it was with the Rays that he was developed as a “super-utility” type player.
Other Rays minor leaguers who have appeared in the majors include Sonnanstine, Fernando Perez, Joey Gathright, and now Wade Davis as well as Shawn Riggans. I would include Sonnanstine in my rotation for his successful 2008.
yea I forgot about that with Navarro
Toby Hall I guess as a catcher. Jackson and Zobrist both spent time in AAA in Durham, Zo for a couple seasons.
Jennings, Hellickson, Davis, Brignac, Beckham, Moore > Your top 3
Still no on Jackson
He’d already lost his rookie eligibility by the time he arrived in the Rays org.
Hell, he had more innings pitched for the Dodgers before the trade than he did for Durham after the trade.
by realitypolice on Sep 23, 2009 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Your outfield
is BJ Upton in center, Carl Crawford in left, and Josh Hamilton in right. Now go on and enjoy your world series champagne and ridiculously low BABIPs for yr pitchers . . .
No E-Jax or Navarro
But you have Josh Hamilton and Toby Hall who were missed
A number of good relievers too in Bobby Seay, Brian Stokes, etc.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Angels
C- Mike Napoli
1B- Kendry Morales
2B- Howie Kendrick
3B – Chone Figgins (if he counts)
Brandon Wood (If chone doesn’t count)
SS – Erick Aybar
LF, CF, RF – Left these 3 blank because sine the beginning of the decade we have not had our own homegrown talent. We had Erstad, Salmon, Anderson, and Edmonds but they were all before the decade started. So oh well everybody else is awesome, lol
SP 1 – John Lackey
SP 2 – Jered Weaver
SP 3 – Joe Saunders
SP 4 – Ervin Santana
SP 5 – Nick Adenhart
RP 1 – Fransisco Rodriguez
RP 2 – Kevin Jepsen
RP 3 – Scot Shields
RP 4 – Jose Arredondo
First we had a Salmon and now we have a Trout, let's see the same results.
I am stunned
that the Dodgers haven’t been named. If anything, they’ve gotten the most hype this decade.
No Indiains?
CC, Hafner, Sizemore, Lee, Choo, Martinez, Westbrook….etc etc…
I was going to do that...
and probably should have given the thread worked, but I just didn’t.
So then uh….I duck out.
Rangers
C: Taylor Teagarden
1B/DH: Tex, Hafner, Carlos Pena, Chris Davis.
2B: Ian Kinsler, German Duran
3B: Edwin Encarnacion, Travis Metcalf
SS: ???
OF: Julio Borbon
OF: Brandon Boggs
OF: Laynce Nix
OF: Craig Gentry
OF: John Mayberry
SP: John Danks
SP: Scott Feldman
SP: Edinson Volquez
SP: Derek Holland
SP: Tommy Hunter
SP: Doug Mathis
RP: Frank Francisco
RP: Joaquin Benoit
RP: Nick Masset
RP: C.J. Wilson
RP: Jesse Chavez
RP: Wes Littleton
And all the prospects.
The 2009 Texas Rangers offense: sigh...
Braves
The 2009 Texas Rangers offense: sigh...
by Kinslerhomer on Sep 25, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Gonzalez was a Marlin and Harang was ’99.
The 2009 Texas Rangers offense: sigh...
by Kinslerhomer on Sep 28, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Phillies
Name (Debut)
Pat Burrell (2000)
Jimmy Rollins (2000)
Johnny Estrada (2001)
Nick Punto (2001)
Marlon Byrd (2002)
Carlos Silva (2002)
Brett Myers (2002)
Chase Utley (2003)
Geoff Geary (2003)
Ryan Madson (2003)
Ryan Howard (2004)
Gavin Floyd (2004)
Robinson Tejeda (2005)
Michael Bourn (2006)
Cole Hamels (2006)
Chris Coste (2006)
Carlos Ruiz (2007)
Kyle Kendrick (2007)
J.A. Happ (2007)
[I kinda wanted to put Randy Wolf in there, but he’s 1999.]
Addenda (Year Signed/Debut)
Jason Michaels (1998/2001)
Taylor Buchholz (2000/2006)
Brad Ziegler (2003/2008) [OK, a draftee but not really a farm product.]
Jason Jaramillo (2004/2009)
Josh Outman (2005/2009)
Also prospects and projects like Lou Marson (2004), Carlos Carrasco (2004), Jason Donald (2006), Kyle Drabek (2006), Adrian Cardenas (2006), Dominic Brown (2006), Michael Taylor (2007), Jason Knapp (2008).
I thought Coste bounced around in the minors for a long time.
by Lunkwill Fook on Sep 26, 2009 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Funny how there are no mentions of the Nationals/Expos.
Who almost certainly had the best farm for the first half of the decade. Traded away all of their good pieces, but in the last few years, their farm has been crap.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Wash Senators
Their starting rotation of:
Cliff Lee
Jordan Zimmerman
Stephen Strasburg
John Lannan
Wally Johnson
….with Brandon Phillips and Grady Sizemore up the middle. I would think that rotation with those two hitters would probably be in a few pennant races (well what do you expect when your #5 pitcher regularly pitches CG SHO?).
Chicks Dig The Long Ball.
Nats/Expos...
C Brian Schnieder?
1B Chris Marrero
2B Brandon Phillips
SS Ian Desmond
3B Ryan Zimmerman
LF Jason Bay
CF Grady Sizemore
RF Milton Bradley
1. Cliff Lee
2.Stephen Strasburg
3. Jordan Zimmerman
4. John Lannan
5. Tony Armas jr
Cl cordero
SU William Bray
Oakland...
Barry Zito (2000)
Mark Mulder (2000)
Carlos Pena (2001)
Nick Swisher (2004)
Rich Harden (2004)
Joe Blanton (2004)
Santiago Casilla (2004)
Mark Teahen (2005)
Huston Street (2005)
Andre Ethier (2006)
Kurt Suzuki (2006)
Travis Buck (2006) (still believe he’ll put some quality seasons together)
Dallas Braden (2007)
Daric Barton (2008)
Trevor Cahill (2009)
Vin Mazarro (2009)
Wasn’t putting them up as a team in contention but that’s a pretty impressive list.
Pena is a Ranger
The 2009 Texas Rangers offense: sigh...
by Kinslerhomer on Sep 30, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
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