Community Prospect List - A's
by cwhitman412 on Sep 21, 2009 5:46 PM EDT
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PrintThis one is going to be huge. I'll put money on it now. More comments than Mets.
Hooray for crazy A's fans.
Anyways, I'm going ahead with the AL West now. 130 AB/50 IP are the requirements to be included..
2. Chris Carter
3. Grant Green
4. Jemile Weeks
Absolutely no pitching. Of course, after graduating everything they did this year I suppose it's not necessary.
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Yeah, I have him #1
1. Grant Green
2. Brett Wallace
3. Chris Carter
4. Adrian Cardenas
5. Jemile Weeks
why?
I just got on twitter.Follow me at http://twitter.com/JDSussman
I'll be trying to post lines and analysis as much as possible.
Remember: baseball guys... baseball...
No.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Green
His upside is a ML average SS on defense with above-average offense. I don’t trust Wallace’s power/defense and Carter’s defense/strikeouts. All great prospects, I just like Green and view him as the same guy who was absolutely fantastic in the Cape Cod League a year ago.
by byronlhsdrmr on Sep 21, 2009 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
which basically means you think the flashes of such play (basically, he’s ceiling) is what he is—not just will be. That is an extremely high take on him: why do you think that other than just wanting it to be?
Prospective parent of new pick, Zack Wheeler. Projectable Righty stolen from the braves. Of course, I stalk my son's myspace: http://www.myspace.com/zackwheelerbaseball
"Obviously I’m not doing things like going toe-to-toe with a ninja. Find me a ninja, for one."--Brian Wilson
1. Chris Carter
2. Brett Wallace
3. Grant Green
4. Jemile Weeks
5. Max Stassi
Cardenas probably belongs on this list, but I wanted to include Stassi.
I considered Stassi as well at 5
but I would have dropped Weeks for him. Glad you chose to include him though.
by byronlhsdrmr on Sep 21, 2009 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Carter
Wallace
Cardenas
Weeks
Green
"I feel like we are sending Danny Haren for Mulder all over again." - Cardinal fan on the Matt Holliday trade
"But at this time of year, two plus two doesn't always add up to eight. Sometimes, it equals four." - Geoff Baker, Mariners beat writer.
This is my list as well. I’ll go with Carter’s upside over Wallace’s positional advantage.
by chri5 on Sep 21, 2009 6:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Why Weeks over Cardenas?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
Cardenas Shows Average
Not much else.
I don’t believe in his power. He seems like a Callaspo clone.
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Weeks has hit poorly at AA
and has an injury history and besides being in the Cal league hasn’t shown much power at all.
There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"
by designatedforassignment on Sep 21, 2009 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Callaspo clone
Callaspo is a top 10 second baseman this year in wOBA, a 26 year old breakout season. I think Cardenas is underrated these days. At the same age in AA as Cardenas this year, 21, Callaspo had a 100+ points lower OPS and his iso was sub .100 compared to .120 for Cardenas. Callaspo struck out a lot less often than even than Cardenas, who doesn’t strike out much, but he also walked less often.
They don’t line up exactly — as you point out, Cardenas had a superior minor league track record — but I think it’s a valid comparison if you want to knock Cardenas’ ultimate upside. Callaspo may have been Top 10 in wOBA, but his -6.8 UZR/150 made him 13th out of 21 qualifying second basemen in WAR. Generally speaking, that’s the big knock on Cardenas: he may hit for average, but he’ll provide subpar defense and little in the way of power. I think it’s a valid comparison in that sense.
That being said, I agree that I like Cardenas’ bat better than Callaspo’s, and I also think he has the ability to develop into a solid, if unspectacular, defender.
by PhillyFriar on Sep 22, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
13th out of 21 qualifying
Means he is better than half of major league team’s 2B. And that is with a down year in the field. Given cardena’s walk rate, i think he will have a higher OBP and thus wOBA than Callaspo, although he might not be able to keep a .300 average absent some nice babips or a spike in power. I like the comparison despite slight differences. An above-average regular is a pretty valuable player, and Cardenas has a good chance of being that.
I've seen the comment made at least twice that Cardenas could hit .300 in his sleep
He seems like he has an excellent chance of becoming the 2009 version of Chone Figgins, minus the stolen bases (which aren’t that valuable for Figgins anyway because his CS rate is pretty high). High LD rate, high BABIP, solid walk rate, and above-average defense at a key defensive spot. If he does turn some of his doubles into homers, so much the better.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
I thought so
but of course he hasn’t even hit .300 quite in the minors (.299). He has been young for his levels, though.
Figgins was a later bloomer. He is faster I think. He hit .273 in the minors, .292 in the majors, and was a bit older for the levels than cardenas. You’d hope Cardenas might develop more power than 2009 Figgins. Figgins is likely better than people suspected he would become when he was 21, 22 years old.
Howie Kendrick struck out at about the same rate as Cardenas. He hit .360/.403/.569 in the minors, .302/.333/.429 in the majors. He walked a lot less, but more power.
Callaspo on the other hand struck out a lot less, but also walked less. He hit .316 in the minors, .283 in the majors.
It may be that it is his line drive rate that will give him the high babip I mentioned he will likely need for a consistent .300 hitter. Right now I’d see him as more of a .280-.290 guy, 35 doubles, 5-10 homers, 50-60 walks. But what’s that, one dying quail a week’s difference? :)
But i don’t think we are disagreeing much here. I was trying to suggest that Alberto callaspo is not that bad, and that seems a pretty safe bet for cardenas to reach that level, and perhaps more, as he has produced at a younger age than Callaspo.
Kendrick's power numbers are a little suspicious because of playing in the Angels' minor league track
Other than that, this is basically correct.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Deep system, but the lack of high-end pitching is a little worrying.
1. Chris Carter
2. Brett Wallace
3. Adrian Cardenas
4. Jemile Weeks
5. Grant Green.
Now that I look up, I see this is the same list as Orodawg and chri5…
"Life is a horizontal fall" -Jean Cocteau
pitching
i think it was expect to take a hit when they have so many pitchers at the mlb level with less than 1-2 yrs of service time
anderson/cahill/mazzaro/braden/gio/outman/mortensen 7 rookie/1st full season SP’s
baley/ziegler/blevins/kilby/gray/hrod/meloan
they still have several more relievers on the way, plus Ross/Godfrey/Leon/Banwart/Ccapra who might be back rotation options in a yr or two…depending on how this pitching depth plays out overall, seem like future trade ammo
by Asfan4ever723 on Sep 21, 2009 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions
This is partly the reason why I create the Prospect Depth Chart thread
Because so much of the time a system can look baren at a certain position, but with out looking at the MLB level to see that they might just have a lot of depth at that position in the Majors, you get a flawed view.
Don't believe in yourself.
Believe in Me who believes in You.
Most definitely true,
and with our pitching staff in the majors we have an excellent core going forward, I’m not doubting that, I’m just always worried about pitching injuries, no matter how much major league depth we have.
"Life is a horizontal fall" -Jean Cocteau
by King Richard on Sep 21, 2009 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, graduating about 7 pitching prospects is going to make your system look bad
Ideally, you won’t need any high-end prospects for the next couple years.
by thejd44 on Sep 22, 2009 2:12 AM EDT up reply actions
My list
A previous list that I did on AN can be found here.
1 Chris Carter
2 Brett Wallace
3 Adrian Cardenas
4 Josh Donaldson
5 Jemile Weeks
Anyone who lists Green as the number one or two prospect in the system really doesn’t know what their talking about. Even putting him 3 is suspect in my book.
There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"
by designatedforassignment on Sep 21, 2009 7:04 PM EDT reply actions
Donaldson
he doesnt really have a position need if suzuki/powell are still around. No one really is blocking Green’s path to the majors depnding on how quickly he progresses.
by Asfan4ever723 on Sep 21, 2009 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Path
Shouldn’t affect prospect status.
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Brett Wallace
Path shouldn’t affect a prospect’s grade but it definitely affects their status in the eyes of their GM.
Possibly the primary reason Wallace is on the A’s is because of #5 for the Redbirds.
(Note: They also needed Holliday and Oakland likely wouldn’t have parted for any less than Wallace anyway so it was a marriage of convenience)
Another good example was LaPorta being blocked by Braun last year.
by two fishsticks on Sep 22, 2009 3:34 AM EDT up reply actions
That doesn't change
Donaldson’s value as a prospect. He seems like he’s going to stay at catcher, he walks a ton and has at least gap to gap power(hard to say seeing as how he’s been a different hitter at different levels). That has value, probably more so on the trade market than to the A’s themselves, but the presence of Suzuki doesn’t change how good of a prospect Donaldson is.
RIP Nick Adenhart
He could very well be the A's starting 3bman
with his defense behind the plate it shouldn’t really affect his value that much anyway since he was a good defensive 3bman in college.
There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"
by designatedforassignment on Sep 21, 2009 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Doesn't matter if Johnny Bench, Carlton Fisk, and Ivan Rodriguez are ahead of him.
You rank players based on what that player did/does/can do. Other guys in the system, as others have said, should have no bearing on their ranking.
by thejd44 on Sep 22, 2009 2:14 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I love Donaldson too, but his defense at C is questionable.
If he has to move to 3B his value is seriously depreciated.
"Life is a horizontal fall" -Jean Cocteau
by King Richard on Sep 21, 2009 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions
not really
-10 defense behind the plate is the same as league average defense at 3b.
There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"
by designatedforassignment on Sep 21, 2009 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions
This probably what I'd go with
I can see Weeks and Donaldson switched, even with Weeks struggling in AA after the promotion.
RIP Nick Adenhart
Green
He has a shot at being a league average SS on defense with above-average offensive potential. He was considered the second best prospect in the 2009 draft only seven or eight months ago.
I understand Carter and Wallace have much better bats. However, both, like Green, still have questions, Wallace’s HR power and defense, eventual position; Carter’s defense and ability to hold off on the strikeouts.
by byronlhsdrmr on Sep 21, 2009 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Things change in 9 months and I don't understand how someone that has 10 professional at bats
as well as questions about their defense and their bat can be placed a head of two of the minor’s better bats.
There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"
by designatedforassignment on Sep 21, 2009 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I can understand why you don't have him as the top guy
I think he’ll end up better. Carter and Wallace each have question marks on their games as well.
by byronlhsdrmr on Sep 21, 2009 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Carter and Wallace have been proving themselves against vastly superior competition and suceeding
Where as Green failblog.org.
There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"
by designatedforassignment on Sep 22, 2009 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Pitching
Is anyone going to put any pitcher on the list?
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They shouldn't
As much pitching as the A’s have graduated, and the poor year Simmons posted in AAA, there isn’t much upper level pitching to get excited about. I suppose some people could put Ynoa on there, but I think that is as much of a mistake as it was for him to be ranked so highly by BA/BP coming into this year. That said, the A’s have 5 hitters who could conceivably crack a top 100 list, 4 that are likely to make it. It’s a change from the last few years, but it’s good to see.
RIP Nick Adenhart
The Big Thing About The Hitters
Is order. Wallace/Carter are tied so far 1/2, and Green/Cardenas/Weeks are all very close.
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Leon and Ross are in AA
As well as Capra in A+.
"Chicks dig the long ball, although fat chicks will settle for warning track power" - Nick Diamond
Well I was about to post my top 5 and it includes Leon
So here we go.
1. Chris Carter
2. Brett Wallace
3. Jemile Weeks
4. Arnold Leon
5. Cardenas
What Leon did after the switch to becoming a starter was very, very impressive for a 20 year old at AA. I’ve been hearing good things about him for a couple of years now and think he is one of the most underrated players in the A’s system. He’s pitched at advanced levels with a lot of success, and has the stuff to become a solid #2-3 starter as a big leaguer. I like Cardenas, but I don’t think he’ll ever have the bat to play at 3B. If Weeks can manage to stay healthy, he’s the A’s 2B of the future and that leaves Cardenas without a position. A .775 OPS looks good at 2B or SS, but not so good at 3B and I think thats about what Cardenas will put up at the MLB level.
The positional adjustments for 2B and 3B are the same
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
I guess I should have been more specific
It’s not like last year with Anderson/Cahill and Mazzaro/Simmons. I like Leon quite a bit, but put me down as cautiously optimistic on him. He’d be in the 6-10 range for me right now but is one of two guys(FDLS being the other) that could fly up the list next year regardless of what others do. Ross had only 50 IP in AA and his K rate dropped quite a bit and his BB rate rose, I’d like to see some improvement next year before he’d rank higher than 10th or 11th for me right now. I don’t tend to think of A+ ball as upper level, but Capra definitely looks interesting and is one to watch next year.
RIP Nick Adenhart
Ynoa still might not be in my A's Top 20.
Leon, Ross, Capra, and De Los Santos are all far better prospects.
by thejd44 on Sep 22, 2009 2:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Why Capra over Hornbeck?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 22, 2009 4:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Eh?
Drafted far higher, better stuff?
That’s an easy call (and there aren’t many of those around here). Hornbeck’s realistic ceiling is a Greg Smith type.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
I don't know that his stuff is better
Both have mediocre fb velocity; Capra has good breaking ball(s) vs. bad for Hornbeck; Hornbeck has an outstanding change. It’s definitely not an easy call. They both pitched on the same teams at the same times this year and Hornbeck was substantially better… I would go with Hornbeck. His K numbers are amazing.
With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery
If you look at pg crosschecker when he was drafted Capra has a good change up
it was his strikeout pitch in college
There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"
by designatedforassignment on Sep 22, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I was under the impression Capra was 90-91, Horbeck more like 87-89
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
I don't think it's that much of a difference
Different sources say different things. Most sources for Capra say “high 80s, low 90s.” His scouting video (just one game) was 87-91, with just one pitch and 87 and one pitch at 91; most of them were 89. I watched them both on tv this year, and the tv gun had Capra at 88-90 most of the time. Hornbeck was about the same or a little higher, but that was in relief so it would have been more like 86-89 as a starter. I would guess that their fangraphs averages would 89 for Capra and 87-88 for Hornbeck.
Hornbeck’s change was very impressive.
With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery
Capra had one of his worse games the one I watched, so his velocity may have been lower than normal
With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery
I was mostly just naming some of the guys I felt were the A's real pitching prospects
to show that Ynoa isn’t even on my radar yet until he does something. It’s been a year now and as far as I know, Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy are just as likely to pitch in American pro ball.
by thejd44 on Sep 22, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
The A's, if they're smart (and they usually are when it comes to developing pitching)
may have used a relatively minor injury as something of an excuse to have Ynoa just throw fewer pitches prior to his 21st birthday.
Even if not, I’m completely on board with the kid-glove approach. The team gains very little by moving him quickly and the risk is huge.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Ynoa's injury
Does anyone know if Ynoa was still in Arizona after the injury? Or did he go back home to the D.R.? If he stayed state-side, it could have been a plus as Michael got the opportunity to learn about pitching from some very good coaches in the Oakland system while, as you said, he did not put a whole lot of stress on his very young arm.
by nobodyinparticular on Sep 22, 2009 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't disagree with any of this
But I don’t think any of what you said – aside from me maybe overstating his injury (did I? Do we really know?) – refutes my overall point on Ynoa. It’s not that I think he sucks. It’s that we seriously don’t even have any clue if he even has real upside at this point. The difference between Ynoa and a 5-tool (or whatever the pitching equivalent is) high school player who is raw is that we don’t really even know what Ynoa’s tools are.
Kid gloves are fine. And Ynoa may absolutely be everything the rumors and speculation say he is, but I need SOMETHING else to go on. Numbers, some side sessions, some simulated games, Ynoa playing strikeout at the schoolyard. Maybe keeping him out of the Top 20 is extreme, but putting him in the top 5 or top 10 in a system that is still pretty damn good is just silly to me. That doesn’t mean I want the A’s to rush him or anything. I just think we all need to simmer down a bit about him for a while.
by thejd44 on Sep 24, 2009 2:39 AM EDT up reply actions
You have something to go on
There are plenty of scouting reports out there. He was throwing low-90s already at age 16, with good command and some breaking pitches (probably not too many of those, since teams usually don’t want players that young throwing very many). There’s plenty of reason for the hype.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Okay
But the As and you have different goals, right. They don’t particularly care how highly rated he is this year, but they do care that he eventually becomes a star
TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems
by OldProspects on Sep 24, 2009 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Of course. I have no problem with how the A's are handling him
But how people who make prospect lists are rating him.
by thejd44 on Sep 25, 2009 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Lets see
1. Chris Carter
2. Brett Wallace
3. Adrian Cardenas
4. Jemile Weeks
5. Max Stassi
Don't believe in yourself.
Believe in Me who believes in You.
Similar to mine but I'd swap Wallace and Carter at the top.
Tough decision though
I'll bite
1. Carter
2. Green
3. Weeks
4. Wallace
5. Ynoa
Chris Carter for his upside as a first division cleanup hitter. I see Green and Weeks as a potentially average to slightly above average DP hitting combo and future #2/#7 hitters with average D, which is really quite valuable I think, and causes me to bump them up slightly above Wallace, who I don’t think will stick at 3rd, and who I don’t think has enough pop to be a middle of the order bat. He’ll be an above average hitter, but stuck to either 1st or DH. I don’t think much of Cardenas, and am a bit of an upside hound, so I’ll go ahead and say Ynoa is the next guy I’d most want in my own farm system.
on Wallace
I think he’ll be above average as a MLB hitter, but near average for a 1B/DH. I guess I’d see him as a cross between 2009 and the 2007 James Loney, w/ worse defense. Something like 285/360/450. Nothing awful, certainly a future productive hitter, but I’d rather have the middle infielders, but numbers the gap b/w Carter > Green, or between Wallace > Ynoa, is much wider for me than the gap separating Green > Wallace.
Hmm
Carter
Wallace
Weeks
Green
Cardenas
"Chicks dig the long ball, although fat chicks will settle for warning track power" - Nick Diamond
I find the fact that Max Stassi is getting votes profoundly disturbing
He was paid like a late first-rounder.
He’s a high school catcher, a group noted for extremely high bust rates, as players have to convert, usually to first base, and lack the bat to be impact players at that position.
He has no track record of pro success yet.
What gives?
1. Carter
2. Cardenas
3. Wallace
4. Weeks
5. C. Brown
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
What I find interesting about Corey Brown
Is that his 2009 season elevated him in your eyes (I know you always liked him anyway), and it made me even more convinced that he’ll never be a significant contributor to a Major League team. I guess if his defense is that good, he’ll always have a spot based on his “5-tool potential.” I still see a guy who doesn’t hit enough home runs (or doubles) and doesn’t walk enough to justify what I suspect will be a Jack Cust-type of batting average.
by thejd44 on Sep 22, 2009 2:19 AM EDT up reply actions
But you have always held the position that untill he hits in the MLB you would think he will bust
There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"
by designatedforassignment on Sep 22, 2009 2:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I think I said something like that.
I should throw in “Or I see reports that his entire batting approach/ability to recognize what the hell the pitcher is throwing” changes. I’d actually love to hear from anybody who watched him play this year to see if he’s improved on the things I think will hold him back. If he has, then I’ll change my mind. I’d love to be wrong on him.
I also have a feeling he’ll end up spending some time with the A’s next season. Everybody seems to be rushed these days.
by thejd44 on Sep 22, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Curious, Paul, due to your earlier support for him
Where do you rank Doolittle these days, after an injury-shortened season? Above/Below/fairly even with Brown and/or Desme?
1. Carter
2. Wallace
3. Cardenas
4. Weeks
5. Cunningham (is he still a prospect?)
6. Desme
I give Wallace an ever-so-slight edge on Cardenas, esp. if he stays at 3rd for at least a couple seasons.
I think Brown/Green/Donaldson/Doolittle aren’t far below 5 and 6, for me, anyway.
Leon/Capra/FDLS are exciting too.
"I did nothing. I did absolutely nothing, and it was everything that I thought it could be." -- Peter Gibbons
I ranked him 8th a few months ago
Don’t think anything ahead or immediately behind him has changed enough to alter that judgment. The big mover over the last couple of months is Leon, who’s crucially demonstrated success as a starter, but I don’t think he’s overtaken Doolittle quite yet.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
oakland list
1. Chris Carter
2. Grant Desme
3. Adrian Cardenas
4. Grant Green
5. Brett Wallace
Carter is a relatively easy pick at the top . . .while I’m still not convinced that he’ll hit for average, he offers enough in other ways with the bat to be an above-average player somewhere. I imagine the placement of Desme will be controversial . . .he was old for his leagues due to injury but is a potential Seven Skill player. I especially like the impressive improvement in plate discipline upon transitioning to a higher level. 3 through 5 are quite close. Third on the list is Cardenas, who might not offer premium power but shows good gap power, and his polish at the plate should let what power he has play up. I think Green might get a bit of a bum rap defensively but his plate discipline is a real bummer for me . . .it’s rare to see a highly touted college bat barely make it to 20 BBs in his junior year, and it saps his playabale power. He has the upside to top the list but is going to have to prove it. The No. 5 slot goes to Brett Wallace – very odd performance this year with less discipline than expected, but he seemed to get on track late and AAA in your first full pro year is tough in any case. I’m not sold on him but he certainly has potential.
No. 6 is Jemile Weeks. The difficult transition to AA and the injuries were things I could have dealt with independently, but together it makes me rather wary. He has the potential to be a good major leaguer with a broad base of skills, but he desperately needs to just stay on the field for a full season.
Desme MIGHT be able to be put on that list if you can make a good case for him
but not that high.
Don't believe in yourself.
Believe in Me who believes in You.
incorrect
He’s actually on my list at No. 2. It’s not a “might”.
Desme is a great athlete with very good baseball tools across the board and a discerning eye at the plate that has steadily improved as he’s gotten older. As a result, he is a rare potential Seven Skill player. It’s not something that the scouts missed, either, as he was a 2nd round draft pick.
He had only 14 games of pro experience before this year due to missing most of 2008 with injury. It took him some time to really hit his stride this year as you might expect (although .274/.334/.490 is not bad in the Midwest League obviously), but he got better and better as the year went on. He wasn’t young for his leagues and will likely need some time to refine his skills, but at the rate he’s improving he could see Oakland by the end of 2010 (his age 24 season) with a starting job in 2011. He’s got upside that’s worth waiting for.
Pedigree . . .tools . . .performance in most every way possible . . .sounds like a good one to me.
He's also 23 and strikes out at a very high rate in A ball
He’s certainly talented but those question marks are enough to keep him from being ranked that high.
Desme
I like the aggressive ranking. Ryan Howard also struck out a lot at 23 in high A. Admittedly it was FSL and not Cal league, but Desme’s number4s are just through the roof.
I know the fear is he will be like Halman, who had similar K rates last year and then his K rate ballooned in AA this year. And Halman was only 20 last year.
Then again, Halman played at lancaster, a notorious hitters park. And his numbers were not as good as Desme’s.
Corey brown put up nice numbers a year younger at 22 when he was in Stockton. And he put up good numbers this year, lowering his k rate, raising his walk and speed rate.
Desme did improve until by August his k rate was down around 25% instead of close to 30%. His k rate is lower and his walk rate higher than Brown’s last year. And his numbers are just that much better than Brown’s last year, a wOBA of .450 at Stockton as opposed to .378 for Brown.
It’s close, and Brown has produced at a higher level, a tough park in Midland for power.
I don’t know these guys as well as some of you A’s fans, but I’d go:
1. Carter
2. Desme
3. Cardenas
4. Donaldson
5. Wallace
6. Brown
7. Weeks
8. Cunninghham (maybe he isn’t eligible any more)
9. Green
10. Leon
normally, yes
But a few things make it up for me.
1) He missed almost all of 2008, so I’m cutting some slack for Desme just needing to get back into a groove.
2) While he strikes out a lot, he also walks a lot.
3) The strikeouts, too, are going down.
4) Everything plate discipline related for Desme seems to only be getting better with time. It’s not just a matter of looking at his numbers from level to level, but even month to month. He makes adjustments. He gets better. He had a 15/22 BB/K ratio during the month of August.
I can live with this.
A's are in a tough spot with him
They really almost have to promote aggressively and hope Desme isn’t hurt by any struggles that may happen.
by thejd44 on Sep 22, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Not really a problem
He was virtually a non-issue entering this season— what’s the worst that can happen? For the A’s, it’s like playing with house money.
With his age and performance this year, the A’s should probably be giving him a chance to compete for a major league roster spot next season. Same with Brown, I suppose.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Oh, sure, when I said "tough spot" I suppose I overstated the actual risk here
The risk is that a guy who, as you said, wasn’t on the radar in the first place falls on his face and doesn’t ever develop. That certainly sucks for him (when the alternative is a slower track that might lead to marginal MLB performance/paychecks), but from the organization standpoint, it only makes sense.
I think Brown will get a chance to pull a 2007 Travis Buck, but he’ll have to do what Buck did in spring training and get a little lucky with injuries to others to have a real shot.
by thejd44 on Sep 22, 2009 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Brown/Buck
I see where you are coming from with Corey Brown getting a shot to make it if the dice roll his way. However, I think that Sean Doolittle and perhaps even Chris Carter will be on the depth chart ahead of him in the OF. I think the only real way that he makes it is if something happens to both Sweeney and Rajai Davis as either one could play 145 games at CF if the other is injured. Assuming Doolittle makes it back to ST healthy, the only thing that Brown really has on Doolittle is his ability to play CF. And if the A’s are committed to Carter in LF, then that makes two guys Brown has to pass in the OF depth chart (beyond Hairston, Davis, Sweeney, Cunningham and MAYBE Buck).
That would be quite the roll of the dice…
by nobodyinparticular on Sep 22, 2009 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't see a reason for the A's to plan on Carter in the majors next year
Make him absolutely force their hand with that. They lose nothing by starting him in AAA. And Doolittle basically had a lost year.
I’d like for the outfield to have Cunningham, Buck, Sweeney, Davis, and anybody on the planet other than Scott Hairston (his quad injury is no excuse for plate discipline that makes Orlando Cabrera look like Ted Williams). I still think Buck can play. I am quite sure Cunningham can play. Sweeney and Davis are proving they are, at worst, decent contributors.
by thejd44 on Sep 24, 2009 2:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I dont know...
If you are just wrecking AA like that… well, these days that means youre basically MLB ready.
Tell it to Brandon Snyder
because Snyder and Carter’s wOBA in AA were about the same (.444 for Snyder and .450 for Carter) but Snyder flamed out in AAA.
Not saying Carter is comparable. I just thought it was kinda funny given what happened to Shnydes.
Why?
Worst case:
Age 24 – AA
Age 25 – AAA
Age 26 – Majors
If it takes him a couple of years to get his bearings in the majors, it’s not really a big deal. He’s going to be 24, not 30.
Entering the majors at 26 raises serious questions about whether a player will begin declining before his team-controlled years are through
and thus diminishes his value significantly.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
I don't understand how it diminishes his value significantly
If he starts his age 26 season in the majors the A’s will control him through til his age 31 season which means they will get all of his prime years. How does this diminish his value significantly?
Generally speaking, the age 25 season is worth substantially more than the age 32 season
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
What about an age 25 season and an age 31 season?
Which is what it would work out as assuming Desme got a cup of coffee in his age 25 season and then remained on the 25 man roster until free agency?
Even if you have him coming up in 2011, I'd still rather have age 25 than age 31
I was assuming that he was showing up in roughly May 2012.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
I'll Pop For a Pitcher
1. Carter – Answered my questions this season by making important adjustments. Maintained power, cut down strikeouts, raised average. He even had a hitting streak. Plus he’s athletic with a strong arm so he can play outfield. Not a big lug destined for first.
2. Wallace – Kid can rake. I think the mongo thighs that might move him off 3rd, are going to give him the power he needs to be a serious threat. I’m thinking 25-30 Hrs after two years.
3. Leon – I think he’s that good. Savvy at a young age, plus he’s got stuff. He’ll adapt as necessary. I think he’ll settle in as a #2 starter.
4. Weeks – I think he’s a better player than Cardenas. Better glove, more speed and pop and almost as good a pure hitter. If I weren’t worried about the injuries I’d rate him 3rd. He’ll stick at second.
5. Desme – Finally a toolsy guy who seems to be putting it together. The A’s have definitely shifted their draft strategy towards athleticism and it’s starting to pay off. Rated slightly ahead of Brown who’s similar.
I really can’t rate Ynoa in the top five until he does something. He’s years off. So filling out the top ten but in no particular order…
Cardenas
Ynoa
Brown
Stassi
Ross
Top 5
1. Chris Carter
2. Brett Wallace
3. Grant Desme
4. Jemile Weeks
5. Adrian Cardenas
Jack "The Must, Just has no Rust, ain't no Bust, after him the ladies Lust, turns pitchers into Dust, likes his pizza with no Crust" Cust
Top 5
1. Chris Carter
2. Brett Wallace
3. Adrian Cardenas
4. Jemile Weeks
5. Grant Desme
"Carter's 25-game hitting streak isn't any normal streak. He's 46 for 97 (.474 average) during the run, adding 16 walks and compiling 81 total bases in the process. I'm out of superlatives for what he's doing." - Kevin Goldstein
Top 5
1. Carter
2. Wallace
3. Cardenas
4. Desme
5. Weeks
Honorable mentions/really close to #5; Leon, Brown, Green, Donaldson, Stassi, DLS, Ynoa and Dixon (just cause he has soo much upside). If you were to ask to rank the Top 5 most valuable players though (which is really what everyone should care about more) I’d go;
1. Carter
2. Wallace
3. Ynoa (Possibly #1 too)
3. Cardenas
4. DLS (I’m just optimistic about his recovery and he definitely has #1 stuff)
5. Weeks
For no particular reason
1. Carter
2. Ynoa
3. Cardenas
4. Wallace
5. Desme
For me it’s mostly about upside. I’m not all that hot on Wallace unless he’s a 3B…and he probably won’t be for long….maybe as long as Thome was. I’m kinda hoping Desme turns into Gorman Thomas, but it’s a longshot.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
My Top 5
1. Wallace
2. Carter
3. Cardenas
4. Weeks
5. Green
Chosing between Wallace and Carter was difficult and ask me again in a weeks time and I might have changed my mind. Ynoa would be my highest pitcher, probably at 6, mainly on potential and the fact that all other A’s pitching prospects have big question marks.
Wallace
Carter
Cardenas
Weeks
Donaldson
Tough call between Wallace and Carter, and while I think there are questions regarding Wallace’s power potential, he’ll be a better defender at 1B than Carter, and the fact that he doesn’t have quite as much swing-and-miss as Carter makes him just a bit safer as a prospect. Can’t really quibble either way, though. Same thing with Cardenas and Weeks — there are arguments for each of them at #3, and I don’t think you can go wrong either way. Finally, I left Green off in favor of Donaldson because I’d like to see something from Green in pro ball before I’m ready to rank him over a guy with a proven solid bat at a premium position. (Of course, that assumes Donaldson will definitely stick at catcher, on which reports are mixed, but I’ll stick with this list for the time being.)
top 5
1. Chris Carter
2. Brett Wallace
3. Adrian Cardenas
4. Josh Donaldson
5. Grant Desme
then Weeks, Brown, Leon, Cunningham, and Green.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
Top 5+
1. Carter
2. Wallace
3. Cardenas
4. Donaldson
5. Desme
6. Brown
Hon. Mention: Arnold Leon, Tyson Ross, Grant Green, Max Stassi, Jemile Weeks, Sean Doolittle and Aaron Cunningham
The reason I ranked 6 prospects is because I feel the A’s have interesting pair positional prospects in the minors. As with many others, it is very difficult for me to choose between Carter and Wallace. In the end, I had to choose Carter because 1) he is more athletic than Wallace and 2) he has a plus-plus tool (power). Wallace, on the other hand, doesn’t do anything extremely well and the biggest problem I have is that I’m waiting on his plate discipline to come around. I assume that it will, but until he produces that in the pros, I will slightly downgrade him. Even still, I could feel differently in just a couple days.
Next, the A’s have Cardenas and Donaldson paired up. This is an odd ranking as Donaldson is not thought of this highly by very many people, but I can’t overlook the offensive production at the premium defensive position. Both of these players are good hitters with very good patience but gap hitters and few HRs. I gave Cardenas the edge because of the higher average and better tools IMO. He also outperformed at the plate at a lower age (although the difference is lessened by the valuable position that Donaldson plays).
Then the A’s have two powerful, 5-tool CFs with strikeout and injury issues. Desme and Brown seem to be very similar and I could change my opinion on their ranking depending on the weather. At this point, I like Desme a little bit more than Brown because of Brown’s injury issues this season. Because he dealt with nagging injuries on a regular basis this season, I have to question his ability to stay healthy. On the other hand, Desme was healthy for much more time and seemed to be past his wrist/knee/shoulder injuries that kept him out of his first 2 pro seasons. On that note, I also have to take into account age vs. time in the league with Desme’s performance. Is Grant Desme more physically mature than his MWL and CAL League counterparts? Yes. However, in terms of polish and development, he is still just like a rookie—perhaps even worse due to the rust of not having played baseball for so long. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not making excuses for Desme—he will probably always strike out a ton and he had a natural advantage over his competition. There’s a reason why he’s not in the top 2. And he will just as quickly move down with a bad season next year.
After that, the A’s have a few interesting pitcher to keep an eye on next season—Capra, Leon and Ross are all intriguing. Capra showed he could be very good in a hitter’s league, with a 3.12 ERA in the CAL league and striking out 67 in 52 IP there in high-A. Ross struggled with his command on a regular basis, but he has been getting strikeouts and groundball outs and he has very good stuff. As he irons out his mechanics, getting more seasoned in the pros, he could easily brings those BBs down and Ks up. As far as Leon, he has been a stud as a starter—1.76 ERA with nearly 9 K/9—at 20 in AA. It will be interesting to see him moving forward as well.
Grant Green and Max Stassi have the ability to fly up the boards as well as they get their professional careers under way. Green came into last season as a consensus top 3 pick and fell due to an underwhelming junior season. Moving forward, however, I think he can put those injuries he suffered behind him and regain that status as a top baseball prospect. Doolittle also saw his status plummet due to injuries this year, but that was in AAA Sacramento. He has very good tools—very under rated speed—and the ability to pick up at the plate as he comes back from a knee injury that ended his season at the beginning of May.
by nobodyinparticular on Sep 22, 2009 2:48 PM EDT reply actions
I'm also rather fond of Doolittle
He’s still only had one full season as a hitter, he’s a year younger than Desme, and he’s got a projectable frame as he grows into his physical prime. I can easily see him hitting 20-30 HR a season with solid performance in the rest of the seven skills. Defensively he can cover a fair amount of ground in the corner OF, has a true RF arm, can play center in a pinch and is reputedly an excellent defensive first baseman.
Nick Swisher with fewer walks and more singles isn’t an outrageous comparison. I’d give him a solid B, assuming the knee problems are behind him.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Doolittle/Swisher
That’s something that I see made all the time and I will agree with that comp. However, while Swisher had more speed than his frame would suggest, Doolittle has very good speed beyond Swisher’s speed. Or at least he did before his knee injury. The A’s have a lot of prospects that I am looking forward to seeing in 2010 and Doolittle is one of the prime candidates in that regard. I think he can come out in 2010 in a big way and play his way on the team. The A’s are going to have to make some decisions soon on Sweeney/Davis/Hairston because Doolittle/Carter are just the beginning of the new group of OFs to come. At this point, I’m ready for the A’s to trade Hairston away in the winter for anything and give Cunningham/Doolittle/Carter (Buck?) an opportunity out of ST to grab a starting spot in the Oakland OF.
by nobodyinparticular on Sep 22, 2009 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd rather move Davis than Hairston
Davis is likely to be overvalued right now; Hairston’s likely to be the opposite because his second half has been crippled by various injuries.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
henry rodriguez
what a puzzling talent…threw 97-100 mph last night mlb debut but not much else. inconsistent slider control (maybe throwing a cutter or 2seamer instead would be better. 2 wild pitches. The ump was no help on some obvious strikes and patterson is a terrible defensive player which extended the inning, If Hrod ever figure is out his upside is huge or heends up another no control headcase like casilla/german/colome etc. One of the few to actually have a decent career was luis vizcaino
I think mine is the same as some of the lists above
1.) Carter
2.) Wallace
3.) Cardenas
4.) Weeks
5.) Green
With the Carter, Wallace choice I figured neither is likely to be a great defender anywhere but neither is a DH in waiting either so that was fairly even. Carter has better power and better patience but Wallace has slightly better contact rates and scouts on his side. It was a close call but Carter’s power pushed him slightly ahead for me.
Cardenas and Weeks were both really close in my eyes, but Weeks injury issues nudged him slightly below Cardenas. I think both can be good defenders at 2B with Weeks maybe a bit better. I think both will hit for average, Cardenas maybe a few points higher but Weeks will make it up in OBP. Weeks has the speed advantage but he hasn’t stolen many bases as a pro. I tend to chalk that up to being careful after the hip injury which, if that’s the case, still worries me.
There were a lot of names I considered for the 5 spot but I went with Green because even after being picked apart his junior season he was still considered good value as a mid first round pick. Most reports I have heard are confident he will stick at SS and he has a good bat with some projection left in it.
Carter
Wallace
Cardenas
Green
Weeks
I would say Ynoa and DLS are the top 2 pitching prospects. I don’t think any of Ross/Leon/Capra/Hornbeck etc are at all likely to be above average starters.
With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery
Upside vs. likelihood to achieve upside
I agree that Ynoa and DLS probably have the much higher upside in having the tools to be (or develop into) top of the rotation pitchers. However, both of them seem to have a pretty high likelihood of not even reaching the majors—or at least not reaching the majors in the rotation. I think Leon/Capra/Hornbeck may not have much chance to develop into #1 pitchers like Ynoa or DLS, but they have the chance to develop into average or slightly better starters—a chance that I would be willing to put much more money on than Ynoa and DLS.
by nobodyinparticular on Sep 22, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess I would say that it is easier to overcome injuries than to overcome insufficient talent
With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery
1. Chris Carter
2. Adrian Cardenas
3. Brett Wallace
4. Arnold Leon
5. Aaron Cunningham
1-3 is easy for me. It’s pretty tough to sort Leon, Weeks, Cunningham, Brown, Desme, Green, Donaldson, etc. I’d be pretty comfortable with any of them in the 4 and 5 spots.
by CapgrasDelusion on Sep 22, 2009 5:23 PM EDT reply actions
top 5
1. Chris Carter DH
2. Grant Desme OF
3. Brett Wallace 1B
4. Grant Green SS
5. Josh Donaldson C
also really love: SS Dusty Coleman, OF Alex Brown, P Arnold Leon, and 2B Jemile Weeks
Deolis Guerra = Daniel Cabrera ?
I tend to think so
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Sep 22, 2009 5:36 PM EDT reply actions
any thoughts...
the prospects mentioned are looking to replace that previous wave of players below that have shown some progress at least lately.
sweeney- he’s shown progress with the bat and elite OF defense. he’s a 3.5 WAT player so far in his age 24 season. If he can maintain a .750 + OPS as a CF thats passable, but for now seems like rajai davis is (career yr or not) the CF for now.
barton- once again showing he’s a sept superstar, if only he could do that in the other 5 months. He still has a great approach at the plate, but middling power not ideal for the 1b position. at 24 yrs old, you would expect more improvement. I think he an be a solid hitter similar to a loney, kotchman, c. jackson type player, but we’ll see. Defensively he’s turned into a well above avg 1b. With carter, doolittle, wallace on the way he’ll have competition.
suzuki/powell- i put them together because they are a solid catching duo overall. Suzuki’s numbers across the board have stayed consistent. His OBP/walk rate has gone into the dumps. For more power, rbi production. Powell has shown starting catcher qualities but durability is always an issue
buck- biggest disappointment, for whatever reason he’s fallen out of favor (injuries, attitude, who knows) He doesnt seem like in the A"s plans.
pennington- maybe the biggest surprise, though I doubt he’ll hit as well long term as he has so far. He reminds me of a pre 2009 jason bartlett or a ryan theriot type which isnt far fetched. His defense has been a huge improvement and has shown off a plus arm. If he’s put in in the #9 spot everyday it cant be terrible since he has a devent approach at the plate, steals some bases, and plays above avg defense
top5
1.Carter
2.Wallace
3.Weeks
4.Ynoa
5.Desme
Grant over Grant because of Grant Gs lack of huge upside.
I just don't buy Desme one bit.
"Chicks dig the long ball, although fat chicks will settle for warning track power" - Nick Diamond
that's okay, more for the rest of us :)
"I did nothing. I did absolutely nothing, and it was everything that I thought it could be." -- Peter Gibbons
Does he, though?
54 walks in 552 plate appearances in High-A really isn’t a lot. The 150 strikeouts and, just by watching him, the poor discipline and pitch recognition, tells me he’s Greg Halman 2.0.
I’d love to be wrong, of course, but I just don’t see it. Just looks like a faster Cody Johnson, and I don’t like that guy either.
"Chicks dig the long ball, although fat chicks will settle for warning track power" - Nick Diamond
In fact...
His stats are very comparable to Halman’s from last season.
"Chicks dig the long ball, although fat chicks will settle for warning track power" - Nick Diamond
Halman's career walk rate is like half Desme's.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Still doesn't say much for Desme
"Chicks dig the long ball, although fat chicks will settle for warning track power" - Nick Diamond
Shrug
If Halman was such an obvious bust, why was he getting rated so highly last offseason? I mean, I wasn’t real thrilled with the ranking, but even I didn’t see a season like this one coming.
When it comes to prospects, the kind of certitude and blanket statements you’re throwing around is basically out of order.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
I don't know
Why was Halman getting rated so highly last offseason?
Baffles me too.
Basically, I’m probably not going to trust somebody who has as high a K rate and as low a walk rate as Desme in A-ball, and especially not one who I’ve seen and not been impressed with.
Hopefully he has a Chris Carter-like ability to make adjustments, but since he hasn’t had much playing time before this, you can’t really tell.
"Chicks dig the long ball, although fat chicks will settle for warning track power" - Nick Diamond
Halman was rated so highly because it was one of his first years playing baseball and he was expected to improve his walk rate. and Desme walk rate is right around average, and for a player with his tools, thats not bad.
Oh wait, wrong link. Eh, close enough.
I’m an A’s fan, and I love what Desme did this year, but I see him as basically a clone of the guy I linked.
WordUpThome: "TRENIDAD HUBBARD WENT TO HIS CUPBOARD TO FEED HIS POOR DOGS AND PETS...WHEN HE GOT THERE, THE CUPBOARD WAS BARE, AND THEY TRADED HIS DOG TO THE METS"
by CaliforniaJag on Sep 26, 2009 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Not much controversial here
I like Leon more than most though, I guess.
1. Carter
2. Cardenas
3. Wallace
4. Leon
5. Weeks
we in the losin baseball binness. and cousin, binness is a boomin.
I'm surprised Cunningham isn't on more lists
He’s a sure bet to be a major leaguer with a good chance of being a fairly productive one.
1. Carter
2. Wallace
3. Cardenas
4. Weeks
5. Cunningham with Desme not far behind
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
He's not on lists because
Cunningham is not eligible. 80 ABs in 2008 and 53 in 2009, limit is 130 ABs in the majors.
If he were eligible . . .yeah, he’s probably a major leaguer, but as a regular he’d be a left fielder with an okay bat, not more than that most likely. I don’t know how exciting that really is.
Cunningham
I think he could end up being a decent corner. His combined AAA numbers from 2008-2009: .317/.389/.510, 9.7% BB 22% k rate. At the same age Ethier was putting up similar numbers, but in AA. Ethier was bigger and thus maybe more projectable, and he is a lefty, but I think Cunningham has a shot at putting up close to Ethier like numbers in a couple of years.He got jerked around a little this year, plus the concussion.
Even Ethier wasnt projected to be the Ethier he is now
He definitely has exceeded expectations. I believe he ranked as high as a top 75 prospect as BA
Guys like Buck and Cunningham were legit top 50 type prospects.
Buck went into the reasoning he projected to be like Ethier, similar type hitter. ALso one of the reasons they eventually traded Bradley/Swisher, Buck was that guy projected to produce in their spots. It hasnt happened so far, may never happen since he’s fallen out of favor. Depending on what happens with Hairston signed through 2011, cunningham is blocked too for now
by Asfan4ever723 on Sep 23, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Missed the cut by 3 ABs
Shame
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Sep 23, 2009 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Im having a hard time with this list
1. Carter
2. Wallace
3. Weeks
4. Cardenas
5. Green
Lots of others right on their heels…
1. Wallace
2. Carter
3. Cardenas
4. Donaldson
5. Desme
Really struggled with 1-2, but since it’s not just about hitting I think Wallace barely edges out Carter since his defense, while not fantastic, has to rate a notch above Carter’s. Cardenas gets the nod over Weeks because he’s a year younger at a higher level and putting up better offensive numbers, Donaldson because of his position and Desme because he’s done something no other prospect has done in a zillion years with 31 homers and 40 stolen bases, plus he hit 31 doubles.
What I find most interesting with this list, is that 1-4 were all via trades.
if we're talking stricty defensive tools
Wallace is a fatbody with no range and Carter is a big, fast, strong kid built like a linebacker.
Obviously that doesnt tell the whole story, as Carter has shaky hands and Wallace is solid with what he gets to… but Im certainly not listing defense as a notch for Wallace over Carter. If we were talking two 30 year old players, Id go Wallace, but there’s some reason to think Carter can end up a decent defensive player, while Wallace is just biding time until he’s a 1B/DH.
List
1. Wallace
2. Carter
3. Weeks
4. Green
5. Ynoa
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
My list...
1. Carter
2. Wallace
3. Cardenas
4. Leon
5. Desme
Carter’s ceiling of talent is just through the roof. He has the potential to anchor the middle of a lineup for many many year. And with Wallace in the system now too, thats a potential scary middle of the lineup. Cardenas should be good at second or third base. His offense is probably more of an upside if he ends up at second, but that probably depends on how quickly Weeks progresses.
Leon has really impressed me this year. I think he has a legit shot at being a very good starting pitcher in the majors pretty soon (2011, maybe). And Desme has legit 30-30 potential, which really is rare, if he can develop it.
Sometimes the impossible can become possible if you're AWESOME!
1. Wallace
2. Carter
3. Green
4. Weeks
5. Ynoa
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
No Cardenas?
He out hit Weeks at a younger age and a higher level.
DLS
he’ll be 24 next season and has not pitched above A ball. His progression from the TJ surgery had a couple setbacks. Do you think A’s aggressively put him in AA, return him to SP or fast track as a reliever?
Why on earth would the A's convert any pitcher to the bullpen?
Their rotation kind of sucks right now and their bullpen is awesome, plus they have numerous bullpen prospects.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Agreed
Bullpen is STACKED.
Bailey
Wuertz
Breslow
Devine?
Ziegler
Demel
Rodriguez
Kilby
Blevins
Marshall
Gray
Meloan
Cameron
are all possibilities for next year’s pen. Geez.
On another note, I wish Geren would stop using Jay Marshall against RHH. Just stop, Bob.
WordUpThome: "TRENIDAD HUBBARD WENT TO HIS CUPBOARD TO FEED HIS POOR DOGS AND PETS...WHEN HE GOT THERE, THE CUPBOARD WAS BARE, AND THEY TRADED HIS DOG TO THE METS"
by CaliforniaJag on Sep 26, 2009 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I wish Geren would stop using Jay Marshall against RHH
Corrected.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
I think Marshall can be an effective LOOGY
Problem is, Geren, seriously one of the most inept managers I have ever seen, has him facing RHB 60% of the time.
Another absolutely fucking atrocious managing job from Geren this year (he deserved to be punched in the head every single time he used Nomar as a pinch hitter, or batted him fourth, for that matter), and I’m pretty sure that he’d figure out a way to fuck up the ‘27 Yankees by batting Ruth and Gehrig 8th and 9th or something (ok, even that wouldn’t have hurt the ’27 Yankees, but Geren would figure out a way.).
Never before in watching sports have I been so baffled by some of the things the guy does, and I have to sit through Vinny Del Negro trying to coach an NBA team (Del Negro is, in my time watching sports, the most overmatched and unqualified head coach/manager I’ve watched.).
by thejd44 on Oct 5, 2009 3:42 AM EDT up reply actions
i'm hoping for
bailey
wuertz
breslow (good season, but i feel like kilby could do his job)
ziegler
devine (if healthy)
kilby (if breslow still on roster)/whoever shows better command out of marshall/blevins in ST (if breslow not on roster)
gray/meloan (whoever wins out)
give rodriguez and demel more AAA time
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
not getting all the Cardenas love. is there something i don't know?
also, I think Capra is being pretty under-rated.
1. Wallace
2. Carter
3. Desme [ like him, and i’ve seen video… he looks like a MLB player]
4. Green
5. Capra
… then Weeks, then i guess Cardenas
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