Need some Posey enlightenment, please...

by slickterp on Sep 15, 2009 11:35 AM EDT Comment 31 comments

OK, I'll start by saying that I have been following prospects and the minor leagues for about a year to 18 months, and most of you guys have waaayyy more knowledge on the subject than myself. An avid reader and sometimes poster on this site, love everyone's opinions and the discussions that the different opinions bring to light.

That said, what are the Giants doing with Posey? I don't get it. Why purchase his contract and then not give him some PT? They started Whiteside on Sunday, and brought him in during late innings as a double switch last night. Why not take the opportunities to get Posey some on the field ML experience? I mean, they don't lose anything defensively by putting Posey in instead of Whiteside, correct? And certainly the potential for a better offense contribution goes to Posey, right? Help me understand their thinking...

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It more or less boils down to Bochy’s inflexibility with players that he does not know. A lot of people call it his love for veterans, but you can look at how he’s handled Garko since he came from Cleveland. Garko came in slumping and since that is Bochy’s total experience with him, he buries Garko on the bench. It doesn’t matter that he was mired in a slump since he arrived and that for three seasons he had been a more productive bat. Other examples include. constantly playing Rowand over a number of other options and Renteria instead of Uribe or Frandsen at SS.

As it stands, Bochy knows Molina. He was forced to play Whiteside at some point so therefore he knows Whiteside. Regardless of what Bochy knows about them (inability to walk, baseclogging, etc.) he will go to the well time after time with them until management forces his hand or they are officially out of contention.

by dogdays on Sep 15, 2009 12:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

You're insane if you think playing Rowand is more of a problem than playing Randy Winn

First of all, he DOESN’T play Rowand all the time. In fact, Rowand was doing very well in the leadoff spot, he got banged up a little, and Bochy has handled him horribly since then.

Of course, your overall comments are valid, but I don’t think Velez or Schierholz or Torres actually are better players than Rowand.

by thejd44 on Sep 15, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m just throwing out examples and Winn fits the bill as well. Rowand sticks out more to me because of his propensity to hit into double plays and strike out on that low and outside ALL the time. And that it drives me nuts to watch him at bat.

The point is that none of these other guys get a fair shake with Bochy because they are unknown quantities, where Winn, Rowand, Molina, Renteria etc are known.

by dogdays on Sep 15, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

An interesting theory

But, as an intense observer of Bochy the last 2 years, I don’t believe that he is that doctrinaire when making up his lineups. I mean that he’s made plenty of moves to play guys that he “does not know” this year. I believe that Bochy loves to go with his gut on most decisions – and his gut has no set pattern that any logical observer can discern.

One other thing. There’s no way Bochy would be allowed to bench Renteria for any other SS this year due to his 2 year $19M salary. Unless he got sent to the DL, or hit below .200, Bochy has to write his name in the starting lineup 85% of the time or he won’t be re-signed by Sabean in the offseason – it would be tantamount to him sticking his finger in Sabean’s eye every day.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Sep 15, 2009 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The real exception to the rule (the one I made up) is Velez but you could argue that he watched some Velez last season and in spring training.

Anyhow, why else would he march Winn out there to hit in the 3 or 5 when he’s got Schierholz sitting on the bench?

by dogdays on Sep 16, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

There is also the idea...

that simply BEING in the big leagues, and experiencing the day-to-day environment of play at the major league level helps a prospect’s transition from the minors. I know the Mariners subscribed to this theory under Bavasi (big endorsement there).

If it were me, I’d be getting Posey as many low-leverage ABs and defensive innings as possible, especially if the GIants view him as a possible option for early 2010. They’ve just had four straight games where they were ahead or behind by at least five runs, and Posey got 1 AB and 2 innings behind the plate. That’s just stupid.

by PissedMick on Sep 15, 2009 2:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

There's also losing an option year

and that makes him one year closer to being a free agent, and maybe a member of the Yankees or Red Sox

That's why they call them business sox

by egriffey on Sep 15, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

question

So September call ups do count towards service time? I am unlear on that, having heard it both ways. I always figured any ML time was service time.

by slickterp on Sep 15, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

not everyone who is a free agent signs with the yanks or sox

by Mets2k9 on Sep 15, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Options have absolutely nothing to do with arbitration.

This isn’t going to affect his free agency at all.

Tools Whore

by Tyler on Sep 15, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It does bring him closer to being a

super 2. My understanding is that he would become eligible for that if he’s had at least 86 days of service time., and would therefor get to arbitration earlier. Am I wrong?

That's why they call them business sox

by egriffey on Sep 15, 2009 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You don't "lose" an option year unless you're optioned

Calling him up now won’t affect his options unless they option him down, and even if they do, he’s certainly going to be called up for good before his options are exhausted anyway.

by thejd44 on Sep 15, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're right, I confused the language

But, if for some reason he’s still in the minors in four years (I think that’s right), and has exhausted his options, he’ll have to clear waivers. At least that’s my layman’s understanding of the process. If I’m wrong, please correct me.

That's why they call them business sox

by egriffey on Sep 15, 2009 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Low leverage at bats

He has had a few opportunities to get these low leverage at bats and bochy has gone with Whiteside more often than not.

by dogdays on Sep 15, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

EXACTLY

what I am saying. Last night was an opportunity, and he went with Whiteside for the last couple of innings. Molina’s deal is up after this year, so they have to want to see what they have, right?

by slickterp on Sep 15, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

At least part of the reason why Posey was brought up was because management wanted to “light a fire” under Bengie Molina because they thought he was dogging it entering September.

It was both immature and shortsighted.

Also, Bochy loves Whiteside….for whatever reason so until the Giants are mathematically eliminated (and hopefully that will never happen) I don’t expect Posey to get any starts.

by Keenlow on Sep 15, 2009 3:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Believe me, no one is more irritated about this than Giants fans.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster

by jponry on Sep 15, 2009 3:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

If you read what Bochy has said about it, by the way, it’s full of weird convoluted reasoning and things that are just plain false. The Giants had a game they were ahead 9-2 in against the Padres last week and Bochy brought Whiteside in for the last few innings instead of Posey, the reasoning being that he had to keep Whiteside “fresh”. Of course, Whiteside had just caught twelve innings the day before…

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster

by jponry on Sep 15, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow...

That’s awesome logic on Bochy’s part.

I just need him to get 10 PA to qualify for my keeper draft, where he’ll be the clear #1 (which I have)

by slickterp on Sep 15, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry, you’re screwed.

Still the loving, adoptive father of Hector Sanchez. And who doesn't love switch-hitting catchers with power and patience?

by tedfordfan on Sep 16, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah, I know...

Just have a huge man crush on Posey, and was really hoping he’d qualify. I guess I could hope Molina gets injured…

by slickterp on Sep 16, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Then Whiteside would be playing everyday and they’d call up Steve Holm to be backup catcher. You need to hope that the Giants get eliminated with at least a week to go.

Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.

@#$% Juan Uribe. Dios es grande.

by marcello on Sep 16, 2009 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You got that right. I’ve already spouted off on this on other Giants boards.

by barrance on Sep 15, 2009 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bork

Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
SCIENCE

by CB30 on Sep 15, 2009 5:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Defensively...

Whiteside likely does a better job handling a staff than Posey. I can’t verify that, but Whiteside definitely has more experience.

Offensively, there is no question that Posey deserves a chance. But I think playing Whiteside is strictly done for the way he handles staff and his defensive skills.

by valley on Sep 15, 2009 5:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The rationale for bringing him up and not playing him doesn’t make too much sense. Bochy and management will claim that the decision to bring Posey up was because there was one game that Benji got a pinch hit, but they couldn’t pinch run for him because Whiteside had been used already, or some crap like that.

There have been plenty of opportunities to get him ABs and time behind the dish. Yes, I realize they are still in the WC race and that’s no time to break in a youngster, but I’m positive they could have found more than 1 AB for him in the 2 weeks they’ve been up. I’ll bet even that one token AB he got was due to public and media pressure on Bochy.

by barrance on Sep 15, 2009 6:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

Last night they could have thrown him in for an AB and a couple of defensive innings. They were up 4 or 5 I think at the time. Do they really think he could blow a game in 2 innings somehow?

by slickterp on Sep 15, 2009 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Enlightenment:SaBochy::God:Dog

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Sep 15, 2009 6:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Maybe the shouldn't have even called him up

But clearly the plan was not to play Posey, but give him an opportunity to get his feet wet with the Major League lifestyle – the minor league season is over and he doesn’t really have anything to do before going to the Arizona Fall League.

Short of doing anymore catching besides in the bullpen and to warm pitchers up in-between innings and getting more than an at-bat every once a week – Posey is getting an opportunity to see what it is like to be a big league for a month, on a team fighting for the playoffs.

Or is Kendry perhaps the one who needs to sit?

by BBFan1 on Sep 15, 2009 8:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Posey was called up before the minor league season ended

by sharks on Sep 17, 2009 3:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

...maybe you knew that

I was confused at the time because I thought they couldn’t have him on the playoff roster if he wasn’t on the roster by aug. 31st (but I just found an article saying if someone were to go on the DL he could replace them). I was especially confused why they weren’t playing him at least some. I’m even more surprised to see that he still isn’t getting playing time.

by sharks on Sep 17, 2009 3:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs