Kazmir traded to LAA
by jibs on Aug 28, 2009 4:43 PM EDT
54 comments
EDIT again: Deal is apparently back on, Kazmir for Torres, Sweeney, and a PTBNL
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-angels-fyi29-2009aug29,0,3289400.story
The Angels apparently plan to put Scott Kazmir in the bullpen. It will also be interesting to see who the Rays decide to put into the rotation spot that Kazmir had. I expect that people will think that the Angels won this deal since neither Alexander Torres or Matt Sweeney are big-name prospects, but it is a nice way for TB to cut salary for an injury prone guy. Plus the Rays do have some good in house options coming along in Davis and Hellickson.
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It makes no sense for the Rays
They didn’t need Kazmir, sure, but to trade him at the absolute lowest his value can get? It’s strange. I’m a fan of Sweeney, but he’s only just barely a Top 10 organizational prospect right now.
He's owed at least $22.5M on his current contract
$8M in 2010, $10M in 2011, and a $13.5M option for 2012 with a $2.5M buyout.
If the team would rather spend that money more efficiently elsewhere in the current player salary market, I don’t see why they should gamble on his health and declining performance in order to build up some additional trade value.
Was just about to post that...
nt
"When Justin Upton faces Lincecum, I think Christ might appear in the heavens, and the world will end." -JakeFree
Is it really his lowest value?
What if he doesn’t rebound next year, and instead puts up similar stats? If so, they will be unable to deal him and be stuck owing him a minimum of $20.5M over the next two years if you include the buyout. I am guessing that the Rays have noticed that he has lost some velocity on his fastball and that he won’t be able to reach his former pitching level.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Aug 29, 2009 2:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Davis is going to be Sonnestine bad if he's sent up
Saw him pitch sunday night and was not impressed at all. Two pitcher with 91-93 MPH fastball, curveball that is erratic, and no changeup/cutter. He is going to get lit up like a christmas tree.
Kazmir
well the Rays got him from the Mets for nothing, so i guess they thought it was their duty to give him up for nothing.
WOW
wouldn’t have expected this at all. I guess financially it makes sense for the Rays, but it isn’t very smart to trade a guy when his value is at its lowest it’s probably ever been.
his past trade value is mostly irrelevant now
His value could get a whole lot lower in the future (or turn to zero value) if he suffers additional injuries.
Mind blowing
This guy is having the worse year o his young career and in the midst of a wild card chase they cut him loose for some decent if not nice prospects? I understand how this cuts salary, but I don’t understand how trading him at his lowest value is smart. I dont see anyone who can step right into his shoes right now (I’d imagine Hellickson gets the spot) because when he had his stuff working (which this season was not many times) he stiffled the best offenses in the AL
by MartyMcFly on Aug 28, 2009 5:01 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Kinda reminds me of
Verlander last year how he had an off year and has rebounded big time. Granted Kazmir is having a much worse off year but he has that potential to righten that ship.
by AthleticsReign on Aug 28, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Verlanders stuff went nowhere.
Kazmir doesn’t have the slider that made him one of the best pitchers in all of baseball in 2007. It’s gone and I doubt it’s ever coming back.
Tools Whore
Why not?
I haven’t seen him pitch, but I can’t believe he is truly done so soon.
I propose a 5-year moratorium on trading any young Ranger pitchers who throw over 90 mph.
then you should see him pitch
Tyler’s right for the most part . . .Kazmir’s stuff is just not what it was. He’s become much more tentative with the usage of his slider in the last year and a half. His fastball has lost a couple of ticks, and it looks like he’s having to exert himself more to even get it to where it is. In a recent game against the White Sox, he looked visibly uncomfortable on the mound. White Sox broadcaster Steve Stone specifically noted that Kazmir appeared to be rubbing his forearm and consciously flexing his fingers after almost every pitch, which may be nothing – but they ARE also signs of possible ligament damage.
If he’s healthy, I think a move back to the bullpen will give him his stuff back. If he’s not healthy, he needs to be shut down ASAP obviously.
The Rays are one of the most careful organizations with their players
Kazmir isn’t hurt. That said, he’s obviously a large injury risk. He strained his UCL last year and by definition a strain is a tear, it’s just to a lesser degree. He hasn’t been able to full extend his elbow while pitching to create the bite that his slider used to have. I’m just don’t think that the slider is ever coming back. He hasn’t once said he was happy with his slider since 2007.
Tools Whore
Don't forget his fastball
It has declined from 92.5 MPH in 2005 to 90.6 MPH this season. When you combine that with a decrese in slider velocity from 83.5 MPH in his 2005 (it averaged 84.0 in 2006) to 81.1 MPH this season, the Rays may feel that his best years are behind him.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Aug 29, 2009 2:08 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd figure
It’s short term. The angels bullpen isn’t what it used to be. A lot of relivers have fallen off this season. And with the talent that he has, he should be a starter, even if it’s towrds the back of the rotation
by MartyMcFly on Aug 28, 2009 5:24 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
mlb.com saysi its not happening now
did kazmir clear waivers or was he claimed by angels?
if the asking price wasnt a ton as reported, i would jump in if i was the rangers
mlb network
Says that he cleared waivers. In other words, the Rays basically offered him to other teams for nothing other than assuming his contract and NOBODY bit.
Must be more than a few teams who think that he’s either hurt now or on the verge of suffering injury.
Kazmir is 25
Nobody thinks a 25 year old lefty with multiple successful seasons and the ability to get the ball into the low 90s is cooked.
If he’s hurt, though . . .nobody wants to pay eight figures a year to sponsor a guy’s rehab. Except the Angels apparently.
Multiple sources including Joel Sherman and Rays beat writer Marc Topkin
are saying it’s done and will be announced by 7pm. The deal according to Heyman is Torres, Sweeney and PTBNL for Kamir and his entire contract.
Tools Whore
Last October
I posted that Tampa should trade Kazmir as an alternative to Peavy (similar to the Cliff Lee/Roy Halladay situation at the ASB this year). They had plenty of minor league pitching talent to replace him with.
http://www.minorleagueball.com/2008/10/30/649904/scott-kazmir-trade
It seems that had they done this they could have received a much better package in return, rather than trading him now when his value is so low. When you are a smaller market AL East team, you have to be bold….Tampa wasn’t, and it is gonna cost them.
Rays pitching
so in the past yr…
they’ve traded jackson/hammel:att he time both were used as relievers and considered “depth”
kazmir- most contract/injury issues
sonnastine- has regressed some compared to last yr, but still considered a back rotation type
that the rays are still contending despite this, is pretty impressive
I posted this in the fanshots as well
I really like this trade for Tampa. They clear some salary, get rid of a struggling pitcher who had some rumored work ethic problems, along with an injury history and didn’t Kazmir lose some velocity this year. In return, they get two very underrated guys in Torres and Sweeney. Sweeney’s got some good solid power potential, and Torres looks intriguing, albeit, looks like a lot of work to do and may be more of a pen arm. The PTBNL is only icing on the cake, IMO. That said, this trade makes some sense for the Angels as well. Take a gamble on a high upside arm in Kazmir, and in return, they didn’t give up any of their top chips. Still … really like this for the Rays. Sort of … sort of makes up for not signing their top two picks by adding a very intriguing guy in Sweeney.
Sweeney has had a bum ankle
Didn’t he miss all of last year? Doesn’t that mean he has an “injury history” too?
This is not like Atlanta getting John Smoltz from Detroit for Doyle Alexander, or Texas raiding the Atlanta farm system for Teixera.The Angels farm system is depleted, getting any of their “prospects” is not some major coup. Kazmir is a proven major league player, Torres and Sweeney are by no means a lock to make the transition to the major leagues.
of course not
TINSTAAPP, but when you factor in that the Rays had to cut costs somehow, and combine that with the issues Kazmir’s been dealing with … from his loss of velocity, to the midseason questions on work ethic, to the injury history, and I think it’s a very solid return and a smart move, and it likely prevents them from having to take a more drastic measure, say, trade Carl Crawford. Like I noted at the end, the trade made sense for the Angels as well, to take such a gamble. I just really like it on the Rays end.
In the end, only time will tell.
As an Angels fan
It is intriguing why Kazmir would be traded? He has had a bad season, but wasn’t he supposed to be a future ace just a year ago? Ignoring most of what he has done in 2009, there is obviously still potential for him to be pretty good and I think he’ll be fun to watch in 2010.
Sweeney – power guy, probably more of a future DH/1B type than a third baseman, who has been hampered by some injuries over the last two seasons. For a quick comp, he is probably another Dallas McPherson.
Torres – didn’t know much about him at the start of the year, but maybe the Angels don’t know much about him now. He isn’t a big guy, but has posted very good numbers and maybe a guy who emerges two or three years from now as pitcher ‘who got away.’
Or is Kendry perhaps the one who needs to sit?
Kind of confusing
But I think the beat writers report what is happening at the moment.
Who knows what can happen several hours later – what I have heard from the MLB Network is the trade will be announced after the Angels/A’s game.
Or is Kendry perhaps the one who needs to sit?
Just announced in the Angels game that the trade is official
The deal is done.
Or is Kendry perhaps the one who needs to sit?
He's Starting
The initial post saying he’ll be in the bullpen was never reported anywhere by a reputable source…he was brought in as a starting pitcher period…Trevor Bell/Sean O’Sullivan/Shane Loux has been brutal as the 5th starter…throw in Saunders coming off an injury, Weaver showing a little bit of fatigue, Santana only now getting velocity back, and Lackey having 2 great starts then a horrible one…Kazmir was acquired to be a starting pitcher and will be from day 1…whoever says otherwise has apparently never watched an Angels game all year…Probably the same guys who claim the Angels are just lucky…you dont get lucky for 6 straight seasons
[does some math]
So, you’re saying that 1-in-64 chances never happen, then.
You do realize there are 30 teams in major league baseball, right? It’s not only not unlikely that a team will exceed its Pythag 6 times in a row once a decade, it’s practically inevitable.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
But how many other times has it happened?
Yes, it could be luck, but there are rational explanations as to why a team would exceed it’s Pythag without luck.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
better said
There are RUMORS that Walden is in the deal, not confirmed reports
Is Walden on the 40?
The fact that it is a PTBNL in the waiver period makes me think that it will be someone on the 40-man (Wood? Rodriguez?).
If it's Rodriguez or Wood I'll be a very happy man.
I like both of them very much.
Tools Whore
Buyers beware
This trade gets more curious every time I read more.
Truer words were never written than TINSTAAPP. That said, the numbers for Torres suggest that he has a shot at contributing modestly in the future, if he can improve his control without sacrificing the other things that make him worth scrutiny: the four home runs allowed overall at two levels, the .222 batting average against, and 2.41 groundouts to air outs are major pluses, especially for someone who spent the bulk of the year in the California League. Torres will turn 22 in December, so he is on the clock.
Unfortunately, his current short streak aside, Kazmir has regressed into what appears to be a third or fourth starter type on a winning American League team IMO. He may be better off eventually in the NL. Given his slight stature, the ceiling for Torres is probably the same . . . if he avoids injury and can attain some better command at higher levels.
The Kazmir story just illustrates the terrible risks associated with giving a dose of 186 Major League, high leverage innings to a relatively small pitcher who is only 21 years old. That is why some people call these guys “meat.”
Sweeney has OK power, but from what I have read, he sounds more like a first baseman, not a third baseman. Maybe he becomes a DH. Maybe he stalls in the minors.
And now Walden gets thrown into the mix . . . with a suspect elbow?
Both buyers should beware.
zzard (Arlington, VA)
3rd or 4th is OK
“Unfortunately, his current short streak aside, Kazmir has regressed into what appears to be a third or fourth starter type on a winning American League team IMO.”
For the Angels thats fine…Lackey, Weaver, Santana, Saunders are 1-4, and if Lackey leaves the other three are staying and then Kazmir becomes the 4…if he gets back his ace form awesome, if not and he stays around 4th starter quality thats acceptible…thats why this deal is great for the Angels…the acquired him for what he is now and dont NEED him to be an ace (yes Im aware of the pitching struggles, but those 4 are steadily progressing back to their previous forms), but it sure as hell would be nice…
Hope for the best . . .
. . . expect the worst. I think I understand your reasoning and endorse your expression of hope. As a Number 5 starter, Kazmir would outclass most opponents. That is, if he is sound.
It is better to hope, but sometimes reality bites.
Good luck to all, and batten down the hatches. It could be a wild September and playoff.
zzard (Arlington, VA)
Looks like Sean Rodriguez is the PTBNL
Apparently one of his Salt Lake City teammates spilled the beans.
http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/10007852/Sources:-Final-prospect-in-Kazmir-trade-revealed
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