David Wright vrs Ryan Zimmerman
by nyy601 on Aug 21, 2009 9:10 PM EDT
42 comments
Was having this argument with someone at work on who was the better player.
Both were highly touted prospect that have lived up to the hype.
Up until this season, I would say it was obviously Wright. He had 4 straight 25+ homer, 100+ RBI, .900+ OPS seasons. He also combined this with some pretty damn good D at 3rd (although maybe not totally deserving of the GGs). However this season has not been very good for Wright . His D at 3rd has been pretty bad, and his power seems to have vanished in the new park. But he still has an OPS nearing .900 and on of the highest averages in the NL. His base stealing also brings something to the table that Zimmerman can't. On the downside, his concussion is a little scary.
After a down 2007 (compared to what he did in 2006) and a injury plagued 2007, Zimmerman has been amazing this season. His defense is truely gold glove and there isn't a player in the league I would rather have in the field at 3B. His power and his average are up. But his OPS won't come close to what Wright did in 2005-2008.
Does Zimmerman's D make him the better player? Will Wright get back to 2008 form?
Which 3B will be better long term?
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it remains to be seen how much the new park is going to affect wright, but he until this season he has out wOBA’d zim by a significant margin (minus zim’s 2005 season)… zim is younger though, which could eventually give him higher counting stats compared to wright
by gorilla_baller on Aug 21, 2009 9:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wright has been better at every age…. (except when Zimmerman was 20, which I don’t really count SSS)
by chri5 on Aug 21, 2009 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is just offense
Zimmerman’s career UZR/150 is 11.6
Wright’s career UZR/150 is -1.9
by nyy601 on Aug 21, 2009 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think offense is a concern for Wright
even this season, in a down year, he is putting up Ichiro like numbers.
The one thing that would concern me about Wright is his decline in D. This year his UZ is 3rd worst among qualify 3B and Zimmerman in #1.
by nyy601 on Aug 21, 2009 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wright has that ridiculously high .415 BABIP
Unless you think the power decline can be attributed entirely to the new ballpark, I think there’s a reason to be somewhat concerned about Wright’s offense this year.
by Mike I on Aug 21, 2009 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
He’s hit 8 balls this year in Citi that would have been homers in Shea according to hittracker.com so that would be 16 homers through mid August and he hit one in Minute Maid that landed on the hill I believe that’s a homer anywhere else. Wright has been the third best player in baseball from 06-08 so based on skill and age, I’ll take him over anyone not named Pujols
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
by Evan_S on Aug 21, 2009 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Evan Longoria and his absurdly fantastic contract would like a word with you.
Tools Whore
by Tyler on Aug 22, 2009 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Longoria is spectacular
but Wright has the better track record and going forward, I’d take Wright who also has a favorable contract, though not as ridiculously cheap as Longoria’s. Either way, I’m talking talent/productivity not contract. If we’re gonna go by contract then I’d take my namesake over David
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
by Evan_S on Aug 22, 2009 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not Ichiro....
Wright’s season is almost a clone of Chone Figgins season. Wright with a little more power, but Chone with more speed and better defense.
Wright: 324/414/467 with 8HR and a 24/9 SB/CS ratio and -7.6 UZR. 3.5 WAR.
Chone: 304/401/402 with 3HR and a 37/13 SB/CS ratio and 9.6 UZR. 4.6 WAR.
Adam Dunn: Proof that even sabermetrics doesn't have it right.
by Boxkutter on Aug 22, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
::Sigh::
This thread just reminds me that the A’s are currently playing Adam Kennedy at third base. And a significant number of (dumb) A’s fans want that to happen next year, too.
Wright might be a teeny bit better, but the difference isn’t nearly as great as the difference between the markets in which they play.
by thejd44 on Aug 21, 2009 9:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Kennedy...
has been near league average when you factor in his defense, and he’s played at around that level for several years. He’s not going to make any all-star teams, but he’s totally adequate roster filler.
by slamcactus on Aug 22, 2009 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I have no problem with him there for now. The A's aren't going anywhere and he's not blocking anybody.
I’d just prefer they actually get a bona fide 3B.
by thejd44 on Aug 23, 2009 2:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You take Zimmerman
In the field, and I’ll take Evan Longoria
by MartyMcFly on Aug 22, 2009 2:20 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
The Fail in this post
is very strong. I am only stopping by to post that I will not partake in this debate because it makes my head hurt.
by JayWise on Aug 22, 2009 8:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think it's a fair question.
I voted for Wright, but there’s certainly an argument to be made for Zimmerman. Even if you view Wright’s poor year defensively as a statistical outlier, Zimmerman is still a far superior defender (reminiscient of Scott Rolen in his prime), so if you buy into his power breakout this year, then some people could very well prefer him going forward.
by PhillyFriar on Aug 22, 2009 12:12 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
The only Fail here...
is thinking there isn’t an argument to be made for both.
by PissedMick on Aug 22, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll take Pablo Sandoval
We’ve only begun to see his power emerge. He’s 2 years younger than Zimm and 4 younger than Wright. If he didn’t play half his games in AT&T Park, but played in the old Shea or the Nationals’ ballpark, he’d have at least 7 more HR’s now and be tied with Zimm. If he had at least an average offensive team around him he’d have close to 100 RBI already. If he played in the northeast, he’d be hailed as the 2nd coming by now. And talk about your ridiculously cheap contracts – he’s not even eligible for arb until after the 2011 season.
Final point – his infectious happy-go-lucky attitude will put more butts in the seats than Zimm and Wright combined.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
by Fla-Giant on Aug 22, 2009 12:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
And....
Zimmerman plays in a home park that supresses HR power more than Sandoval. It has allowed him to hit more doubles at home because of the large outfield, but he might have closer to 30 HR already if he played in a more neutral park.
Adam Dunn: Proof that even sabermetrics doesn't have it right.
by Boxkutter on Aug 22, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But how long will Sandoval stick at 3rd?
http://www.chop-n-change.com
by alexwithclass on Aug 22, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Zimmerman is head and shoulders better than Sandoval defensively.
To the point where overall, he’s been about 2 WAR more valuable than Sandoval this year.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Aug 22, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
Sandoval’s a great hitter. Unfortunately, defense matters. Zimmerman, Longoria, and Wright are all just about as valuable as Sandoval with the bat and significantly better with the glove.
I will, however, submit one more name for the list of early-mid 20’s stud 3B’s: Gordon Beckham. He’s got a low UZR in half a season, but this is his first season playing the position and I think he’s got more than enough tools to adapt (though I think he’d be a GREAT second baseman), and he’s posting a .364 wOBA in his rookie year. I think Beckham’s a 5-win player as early as next year.
by slamcactus on Aug 23, 2009 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gordon Bacon is really, really awesome.
I don’t know if he should be playing third (but he will be for a while, because the Sox think Alexei Ramirez is good), but man he’s fun to watch at the plate.
by thejd44 on Aug 23, 2009 2:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This post really doesn't belong here...
Besides the fact that it’s a pretty bad comp, how exactly does it belong on “A blog about minor league baseball, rookies, and prospects”? These are two established major leaguers. It doesn’t really meet any of the criteria.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Schmidtxc on Aug 22, 2009 3:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't see the problem
We are talking about two guys who are still pretty young. Plus it seems people want to talk about these two much more than they want to talk about a guy like Everth Cabrera.
Let ’em eat cake I say!
by FanBall on Aug 22, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As a mets fan
I hate to think that Citi has plateaued Wright’s power upside. I personally think the park is ridiculous, and needs to be rebuilt, but that’s another discussion for another day. Zimmerman has been the cog of the Nats’ surprisingly good offense this year, thanks in large part to his .529 slg and sensational defense. He has really shown signs this year of becoming a .300/35/120 guy, which many believed would be Wright’s immediate future. I suppose that maybe this is just a really off year for the Mets, and maybe the lack of competitiveness has just zapped Wright of any effort (he looks so complacent at bat) he would normally give. John posted a crystal ball for Zimm a while back, and it looks like his career might be starting to head in that direction. Honestly, if I’m building a team, I prefer Zimmerman over Wright.
by Mets2k9 on Aug 22, 2009 11:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
“He has really shown signs this year of becoming a .300/35/120 guy, which many believed would be Wright’s immediate future.”
Ummmmm…. you mean like he had last year?
Wright’s having a bad year (And still hitting for average and doubles power). Let’s see how he does next year. Wright at his best is still better than Zimmerman at his best until proven otherwise.
by Lunkwill Fook on Aug 23, 2009 11:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
he hit 33 home runs
haha. but yeah, I meant on a consistent basis
by Mets2k9 on Aug 23, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh
and anyone who owns Zimm on a fantasy team knows how much he has helped this season
by Mets2k9 on Aug 23, 2009 2:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wright
I haven’t heard any talk of possible PED’s with him.
His power has decreased dramatically. This guy was supposed to be a lock for 25+ HR this year.
2009; John Lester becomes an ace?
by bodyiq on Aug 23, 2009 10:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Metco
Lets just say it isn’t homer friendly.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Aug 23, 2009 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He has hit more HRs there than on the road.
3 road HRs in 219 ABs. Placido Polanco just sat up in bed.
by PissedMick on Aug 24, 2009 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He has changed his swing
to a “line drive Swing”
bull
by matthewmafa on Aug 24, 2009 2:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
peds?
he is improving EVERY season since his rookie year until this one..
by matthewmafa on Aug 24, 2009 3:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He changed his swing earlier this year to hit more doubles
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Aug 24, 2009 3:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why doesn't he change his swing to hit more infield popups?
I don’t know why you’d intentionally make yourself worse at hitting.
by PissedMick on Aug 25, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He hit 8 balls in Citi that would've been out in Shea.
16 homers through mid August would hardly be considered a power outage. Lets see what he does next year before concluding he’s lost his power. It’s entirely possible he’s just having a down year.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
by Evan_S on Aug 24, 2009 3:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mets fan
I will take Wright but I voted for Zimmerman because he doesn’t get enough love…
If Wright and Z swapped teams 4 years ago who knows how we would view them now. I only chose Wright because he seemed to have emerged as a leader. Skill wise, potential aberrations age defense all them stats end up pretty close to a wash to me. The only thing Wright has on Zimmerman is that he has proven he can play in NY.
by BLieve on Aug 24, 2009 2:33 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wow
You picked Wright because of leadership, whatever the hell that means, and because he plays well in New York. Both of those concepts are faricated by the media to seem important, but they really mean nothing.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
by Evan_S on Aug 24, 2009 3:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Better rationale
I picked Wright because he’s been consistently better over the past three or so years.
by Lunkwill Fook on Aug 24, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Going forward
which is what he’s asking, I don’t think there is much difference between the two, more speed for Wright, but better glove to Zimmerman. I have no problem taking Zimmerman, talent levels are equal IMO. As a guy who watched Justin Morneau get pitched around all last year, leading to a HR drop, I do believe that part of Wrights results have been the injuries to the other Mets, whether you believe in it or not. Put Reyes on first base and Beltran and Delgado behind him and it totally changes the way that Wright gets pitched to, and he’s made the adjustment, which is a testament to his talent level. I also think the addition of Dunn behind Zimmerman has helped him out, it’s hard not to notice that big SOB over in the on deck circle.
by smoooooth on Aug 24, 2009 2:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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