Alex Gordon Demoted to AAA
by MightyMoose on Aug 18, 2009 6:39 PM EDT
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How the mighty have fallen. As a Royals fan, I'm not very encouraged. Obviously they are trying to right the ship, but i'm not sure how much confidence can be gained in AAA. Maybe I'm wrong on this. Any other Royals fans feel this is the right thing to do? I understand that if he is down for more than 20 days it will delay his eligibility to 2013.
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I disagree
he obviously has a lot he needs to work on. It is the right move.
It is amazing though, because if anybody would have told me this 3 years ago, I would have laughed at them. Gordon was a close to a sure thing as you could get.
Ehhh...
I’m a Royals fan, and I hope both reasons are correct. I thought a nice season was coming, but it obviously isn’t in the cards. I would love to protect an extra year of eligibility, but I also hope taking him out of the spotlight (however dim) could benefit him. That said, it would be sad if he became a scapegoat for the Royals, both in 2009 and the organization as a whole for the last 15 years.
That's a good description of the Royals roster right now
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Aug 19, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Its 3 years too late
He needed AAA tutelage in 2007. Should have never skipped the level but should have been sent down after about 45 days
Fat man is no more,
Bursting on through Heaven's Door
Come on in, says Bill
agreed completely
Dewey Finn = Dylan McKay, King Billy Royal = Zack Morris, RedSoxFaithful = Millhouse Van Houten, Paul Thomas = Steve Urkel, Galt = Screech Powers, Bravesin07 = Richard Stabone, Hero66 = Beavis, Slurve = Phoebe Buffay
I would agree too
except for the “too late” part – though I dont think you meant it that way.
Then again, Im full of it, b/c I had no real issue with the aggressive promotion of Gordon at the time. I certainly thought he was ready.
I also am not convinced his present struggles arent because of his hip. ARod and Mike Lowell both struggled coming back from this injury. It takes a while.
Confidence
I know some may think that a demotion may shatter his confidence, but I think it might actually help him. This is assuming that he can go down to AAA and do well. So when he does return, he will feel more comfortable at the plate. Right now, he is completely lost. On the flip side, if his struggles continue in AAA, I’d be very worried about his future.
Dewey Finn = Dylan McKay, King Billy Royal = Zack Morris, RedSoxFaithful = Millhouse Van Houten, Paul Thomas = Steve Urkel, Galt = Screech Powers, Bravesin07 = Richard Stabone, Hero66 = Beavis, Slurve = Phoebe Buffay
meanwhile another similar situation
with another former top prospect…..Delmon Young
is actually starting to put together some really nice offensive games lately….
schwooooooooo …gulp
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Aug 18, 2009 7:02 PM EDT reply actions
Delmon Young is out of options
I suppose he might actually clear waivers the way his season’s gone, Doubt it, though.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Don't think it lasts the full 20 days.
They aren’t going to have him stay in AAA even after September 1st.
It would make it completely transparent that they are only keeping him down to delay his clock, and the union will rightfully file a grievance.
"rightfully?"
based on what? Gordon performing so well right now he deserves to be on the MLB roster…?
40-man roster
What reason do they have to field a less-than 40 man roster when they are eligible? They are just going to have Gordon sit on the sidelines? Why?
Is he hurt? Then DL him. Oops, that would count toward his arb clock.
Is he struggling and just needs at bats? Too bad the AAA season will be over by then and he won’t be able to get any at bats.
There is no question that Gordon is one of the best 40 players in that organization. If he’s down there after September 1st, there will be a grievance, and they will lose.
Im not sure I follow this
Teams dont call up everyone on their 40 man in September, so its not like we can assume theyre keeping a (poorly performing) player down in AAA for service time reasons…
There are plenty of reasons teams dont call up all 40 guys. Logisitics, locker room size, travel plans, service time, minor league playoffs, burn out, minor injuries not DL worthy. etc…
There is absolutely zero chance Gordon could win a grievance if this were to pass (nor will he or his agent file a greivance anyway). He would need… I dont even know… something like sworn statements from Royals officials stating that they were doing it deliberately to manipulate his service time and arb years.
Stuff just like this happens all the time and no grievances are filed, nor would they be successful anyway.
Regardless, Dayton Moore doesnt strike me as the type of GM who’s going to do this anyway.
he only needs something like 11 days down there for the royals to get another year.....
thats what i heard at least….which would take them right up to sept. 1
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Aug 18, 2009 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions
A player has to be in the minors for 20 days to not get credit for a full MLB season
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
21 days left in the AAA season as of his demotion on tuesday...
coincidence maybe? maybe not?
i’d be inclined to say yes at first, but they did the same thing with hochevar earlier in the season despite his like sub-2 ERA in AAA for a decent period of time. so there might be something to it.
baseball rules.
The other reason I don't think they'll screw with his arb clock
Is that it’s retarded to do it now. Why not just delay his activation when he came back from the DL. It wouldn’t have been as transparent as if they do it at the end of the season.
It just seems incredibly stupid, even for the Royals, to pull a stunt like that and make it so obvious.
theres nothing really that obvious....
dude’s sucking ass right now…
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Aug 18, 2009 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions
All prospect rankings and whatnot aside
Travis Buck:Oakland Athletics::Alex Gordon:Kansas City Royals
Both guys are clearly talented enough to play everyday in the majors, yet, neither organization seems willing to let that happen after a few struggles. Seriously, the fucking ROYALS are sending down Gordon? Why? What does he have to learn in AAA? It’s not like he’s blocking some stud prospect. And, worse, they’re killing Gordon’s trade value (just as the A’s have done with Buck, who I think is too talented at baseball for Bob Geren to like having around).
The more I talk about this the more I think a Buck for Gordon (maybe additional pieces would be required, but both guys are in the exact same place right now) trade in the offseason would do everybody involved a whole lot of good.
by thejd44 on Aug 18, 2009 9:53 PM EDT reply actions
You can't be serious
They Royals have gone threw three years of underperforming from Gordon before sending him down. They have been more than willing to let him play everyday. The guy is hitting .198 and has 5 extra base hits this year. He has a lot of shit to learn in AAA.
And just the thought of KC trading Gordon for Buck is laughable.
So, wait, let me get this straight
Gordon sucks because he’s “underperformed” (of course the factual problems with that statement are enough to make any sane person bang their head off the wall until they knock themselves unconscious), but KC trading him for another highly talented but equally underperforming player is… a stupid thing to do? Holy talking out of both sides of your mouth, Batman!
You cite Gordon’s stats like he’s played all year and has 500 PA or something. Seriously, SAMPLE SIZE, people.
Exactly WHAT does he have to learn in AAA? Name some things. He forgot how to hit between last year, when he was decent, and this year, when he wasn’t so good in a small sample? Huh?
by thejd44 on Aug 19, 2009 3:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes he has underperformed
and that is reason enough to send him down, especially if he isn’t 100%.
But no matter how bad he underperforms, he is better than Travis Buck.
how are they killing his trade value?
that makes no sense. does him hitting .200 in the majors somehow help it?
again, the only way this makes sense is if he’s down long enough to add a year of service time before he’s an FA. if that happens…then yay. if not…then dumb.
baseball rules.
A few struggles?
These guys have had lots of chances. However, eventually you have to produce. How does letting Gordon go out and play mediocre baseball help his trade value?
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Aug 18, 2009 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow, you three (this goes to nyy601 and doublestix, too) are insane
He was 23 in 2007 and wasn’t all that good. He improved quite a bit last year. This year he started slow, got hurt, came back, and basically didn’t play. He’s had 110 PA this year over the span of 4 1/2 months. How on earth is that enough of a sample to send the guy down? He basically is being punished for a bad month.
The Royals shouldn’t even be concerned about trade value with Gordon. He should be a guy they’re building around. Instead they’re sending him down because their dumb, dumb manager would rather play journeymen and bad players. It’s just inexcusable.
The only way this makes sense if it’s service time related.
by thejd44 on Aug 19, 2009 3:43 AM EDT up reply actions
He isn't getting punished for just a bad month
he hasn’t lived up to expectations at all since being called up.
And I actually like being called insane by someone proposing a Gordon for Buck trade. I would be more worried about my sanity if you were agreeing with me.
Alex Gordon was a 2 WAR player his first season, and improved to a 2.5 WAR player last year.
As thejd44 said, it’s basically meaningless to judge Alex Gordon’s current season since he’s 1) missed alot of time 2) gotten inconsistent playing time when he did play and 3) has a grand total of 96 at bats, a ridiculously small sample size.
Now if you want to argue that Alex Gordon has been disappointing in that he hasn’t developed into the OMFG BEASTLY player he was supposed to be then that’s fine. If you want to argue that the Royals are justified in demoting a 2-2.5 WAR player like Gordon to the minors, then that’s just ridiculous. (In case you haven’t figured it out, 2.5 WAR players are pretty valuable and the Royals would probably win more games if they managed to keep more of those around).
But in the end, I guess you really can’t expect an organization run by a pretty incompetent GM to figure something like that out. I mean, for goodness sake, they’re basically showing that they would prefer to play Willie fucking Bloomquist over Gordon.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Aug 19, 2009 7:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Guess I should read before responding
This says what I said, basically.
by thejd44 on Aug 20, 2009 3:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Wow, so, in addition to insanity, you fail at reading comprehension, too.
I don’t recall ever – not once – saying Buck was as good. And I wasn’t seriously proposing that trade either (it was more of a “as an A’s fan, I would enjoy this” sort of thing precisely because I don’t think it’s fair). The whole point was the treatment of both players by their respective organizations has been remarkably similar. Both guys were pretty solid, struggled a little and got hurt and then the organizations gave up on them in favor of clearly inferior players. I’m not going to argue ceiling of the two or anything like that. It’s not relevant.
What IS relevant is that Gordon IS being punished for a bad month. He was an average-to-above average player two straight seasons and then was bad/hurt this year. How on earth is that not punishing him for basically a bad month?
Just because Gordon wasn’t some unholy combination of David Wright, Brooks Robinson, and Clark Kent as a 23-year-old rookie doesn’t mean he was bad.
by thejd44 on Aug 20, 2009 3:42 AM EDT up reply actions
A lot of service time (possible) persuaded demotions lately...
Each one can be backed up by sub-par offensive numbers but I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the D-Backs, Royals and Brewers stand to save some money b demoting Young, Gordon and Hardy. To be fair, each situation isn’t the same. The D-Backs situation is far more defensible than Hardy’s for instance.
From the lips of the skipper
I was able to talk to Trey Hillman today and this is what he said about the move:
“We moved Alex and decided to give himself an opportunity to put some joy back in the game and take a little bit of pressure of himself. He’s just fighting himself. The hip is feeling good but we felt like for at least a couple of week period let him get down there and take a little pressure off himself. He’s got a lot of things going on right now. He’s kind of in-between defensively on his pre-pitch position and his movement off the bat. He’s doing some productive things swing-wise but because of some of the complications …..(he paused as if to say something then thought better of it) I think there’s a lot going on in his mind right now. He’s trying to make up for lost time and the injury. So we felt like it would be a good thing to send him down and take a little pressure off. Hopefully he’ll come back up in September and do some good things and finish up strong.”
I asked him if this decision has been thought about for a while and he said:
“We haven’t been thinking of it for a while actually. It’s just been within the last couple of days with some of the mounting frustration that we see he has.”
And finally, I asked him if he and the front office have been frustrated by Gordon’s lack of production this year.
His reply:
“It’s been a frustrating year all around. I can’t answer that question without talking about the overall frustration. Yeah, our position in the league standings is frustrating, the lack of wins, the injuries that we have incurred, the lack of performance to some degree, the lack of quality shut down innings out of the bullpen _ especially post all-star break. The thing that has extenuating circumstances as far as Alex is concerned is a major hip repair early on and then trying to come back from that. There is some muscle memory, both offensively and defensively, that has to be able to come back. I think sometimes if you can relieve the stress of the situation those things have a tendency to come back a lot quicker.”
Now I’m no expert but it sounds to me like they sent him down to get him right. This guy is super talented and if the Royals have any hope of winning in the future, they need him playing at a high level. This had little, if anything, to do with service time and everything to do with Gordon struggling and putting so much pressure on himself to succeed as the losses keep mounting. I’m sure all the losing, coupled with his lack of production and basically a lost season due to his first major injury, has got to be driving him crazy.
And based on what I know about Hillman, he wants to win now and he wants to win bad. If Gordon could help them now, he’d be playing for them. But he’s not helping them and they need him to play at the high level he’s capable of. So forget your conspiracy theories and realize that the Royals are doing what they think is best to help get this young man back into a place where he can produce and help them win games.
On your last point
I think it’s ludicrous to think the Alex Gordon is not one of the 13 or 14 best position players in the Kansas City Royals organization. That’s what the “win now” argument is saying. I just don’t see how that’s true.
by thejd44 on Aug 19, 2009 3:46 AM EDT up reply actions
ummmmmmm
you think a .613 OPS would rank as one of their top 13 or 14 offensive players? If that’s the case, there really is no hope for that team. The basic point is that he can be a beast, both on offense and defense. If they have any hope of winning, they need to straighten him out. Obviously that wasn’t happening in KC.
you think a .613 OPS would rank as one of their top 13 or 14 offensive players?
Unfortunately, yes. They are awful.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Aug 19, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
But is he better than Roman Colon?
Who continues to remain in the pen for no apparent reason.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Aug 19, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Service Time
By my math, Alex Gordon will have 2 years, 164 days of MLB service time if he stays down until September 1st. That almost certianly means he will be a Super Two after 2009 and under team control through the end of 2013, adding one extra team controlled year.
172 Days for a full year
ARTICLE XXI—Credited Major League Service
A. Definitions
Those Player rights expressly set forth in the Basic Agreement for which a Player’s eligibility is dependent upon credited Major League service will be determined as follows:
(1) One full day of Major League service will be credited for each day of the championship season a Player is on a Major League Club’s Active List. A total of 172 days of Major League credited service will constitute one full year of credited service.
A Player may not be credited with more than one year of credited service, 172 days, in one championship season. Major League service will be
computed commencing with the date of the first regularly scheduled championship season game, through and including the date of the last regularly scheduled championship season game. This rule shall apply uniformly to all Players and all Clubs notwithstanding differences in a particular Club’s schedule.
(2) For purposes of calculating credited service, a Player will be considered to be on a Club’s Active List if:
(a) placed on a disciplinary suspension by a Club, the Vice President, On-Field Operations or the Commissioner, or on the Disabled List; or (b) called to active military duty for up to two years or if called to emergency duty by the National Guard for a period of up to thirty days.
Gordon
I really can’t believe people are giving up on him during an injury season and a limited sample size. The Royals have a lot of problems to address, but it sounds to me like fans are taking their frustration over the season out on Gordon, which is illogical to me.
Disagree
I don’t think people are giving up on him during an injury season. Instead I believe that management feels that he has a better chance to rediscover his swing, and confidence, against AAA talent. Gordon was rushed to the majors and it is obvious that this was a mistake. It negatively impacted his abilities and has not allowed him to produce at the level he was once expected. Management is simply hoping that some time in AAA will turn things around, while possibly saving them a year of service time.
Also, I don’t agree that the fans should vent their frustrations on a young underachieving player such as Gordon but I understand it. There comes a point when a player needs to step up and show that they are capable of playing baseball at the major league level. Gordon has never approached his hype and he represents the current Royals’ managements failings to their fanbase. There is one way that Gordon can turn all this around. He needs to find his game and remind all of us why he was once the top prospect in baseball.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Aug 19, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
huh?
First of all, I wasn’t talking about management. I was talking about the fans. If Gordon is hurt and his confidence is shot right now, sending him back for a stint in the minors could very well get him back on track. It certainly helped Greinke and Teahen at various points, so i agree with you there.
What bothers me is the fans emotionally dumping on Gordon and writing him off at this point in his career. If you will pardon the expression, it is a fucking stupid idea to scapegoat Gordon, and NO I do NOT understand it. This is the type of human irrationality that turns me off of sports, and that makes sports radio unlistenable for me nowadays.
by John Sickels on Aug 19, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
irrationality
The funny thing is that Royals fans are generally speaking extremely nice and patient. Their patience is being sorely tested right now, and I do understand that.
But I’ve been a baseball fan for a long time, and I’ve been studying players for long enough to know that it is way too early to know how Gordon is going to pan out based on 2009.
In August and September of last year, Gordon hit .287/.370/.525 in 101 at-bats. Why is that less important than what he’s hit this year in 97 at-bats?
Giving up on Gordon is stupid.
by John Sickels on Aug 19, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree that giving up on him is stupid
However, it isn’t as if they are doing it solely based on this season. They are disappointed at his play over the first 2+ years of his career. Also, cherry-picking 2 months worth of data in a 2+ year career isn’t really fair either. Gordon has obviously been a disappointment in his career to date and the fans have a right to remain frustrated.
Conversely, if the fans are making him the sole reason why the team is failing then that is STUPID. Mismanagement has plagued the Royals in recent years, and the aggressive handling of Gordon is just another example of that. I’m not from the Kansas area so I can’t judge their call in sports shows, but I will take your word that the fans have gone off the deep end against Alex. That is a shame as he still has a very good chance to develop into a middle of the bat lineup once he regains his confidence and makes the necessary adjustments.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Aug 19, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
It is easy to be down on Alex Gordon given the success for players like Evan Longoria at similar position; But it would be foolish to write him off.
He’s an extraordinary talent that has been plagued by an injury that has compromised a potential breakout season. I agree with John that Royals have multiple issues that need addressing – many of them not named Alex Gordon.
I am a fan of Alex Gordon. His power potential is for real and if healthy, he is a left-handed, 30+ home run hitter, with improved plate discipline that translates to .375 + OBP and fields an above-average defense third base.
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