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Stat-based classification of pitching prospects

To determine if there are statistically significant performance metrics that distinguish the minor league careers of current Top Of the Rotation Pitchers (TORPs), Middle Of the Rotation Pitchers (MORPs), and Back Of the Rotation Pitchers (BORPs), I assembled the minor league career statistics of 11 TORPs, 12 MORPs, and 11 BORPs. 

A direct comparison between TORPs and MORPs revealed that TORPs pitched significantly fewer minor leaue innings (p = 0.047), were significantly younger when they made their ML debuts (p = 0.007), had significantly lower career minor league ERAs (p = 0.027), and struck out significantly more batters (p = 0.016).  None of these findings were particularly surprising though it was interesting to note that on average, future TORPs had consistent statistical profiles at every minor league level while the minor league careers of future MORPs saw decreasing K/9 values as they progressed through the full season minor leagues.   

The far more interesting part of the study came in the comparison of the average minor league careers of the TORPs and BORPs.  Although I had expected a fairly substantial difference between the minor league statistical profiles of the elite and also-ran starting pitchers used in the study, the two groups of pitchers were largely indistinguishable when comparing minor league innings pitched, age of major league debut, ERA, H/9, BB/9, HR/9, and BAA.  A fairly broad search of other statistics revealed ground-to-fly ball ratio as the one area where TORPs clearly exceeded the performances of the BORPs (p = 0.023) with TORPs having much higher GB/FB ratios.

The study results were used to develop a simple formula that incorporates the career minor league statistics of pitching prospects to predict where they might ultimately slot in a major league rotation.  The scores and projected classifications of several highly regarded pitching prospects are provided below:

Chacin - 100.7 - TORP
Cecil - 97.6 - TORP
Bumgarner - 96.8 - TORP, though poor groundball rate suggests potential BORP
Matusz - 96.3 - TORP
Parker - 96 - TORP
Poreda - 95.5 - MORP
Hanson - 89.8 - BORP - high flyball rate and average control
Niese - 85.7 - MORP
Bowden - 83.8 - MORP
Tillman - 82.2 - BORP - high flyball rate
The scoring system is designed to produce a score of 100 for pitchers with stats that are equivalent to the average of the 11 TORPs that were used to build the classifier. 

If you would like to see a description of the full study, you can click here.  The material was published on a Rangers blog, so you might want to skip the Rangers-centric stuff at the bottom of the article.


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How did you determine TOR/MOR/BOR pitchers? It seems awfully subjective based on your (lack of) description here or in the BTiA article

by gorilla_baller on Aug 14, 2009 12:40 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

and you used garland twice in your BORP

by gorilla_baller on Aug 14, 2009 12:41 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i’m concerned also about guys who skipped levels… you’ll end up weighting certain minor league levels heavier based on the performance of just a few guys…

for example, if only one of the TORP ever pitched in a SS league (not true, but let’s pretend that’s the case) then you have a weird distribution where the SS data is not indicative of the TORP as a GROUP

by gorilla_baller on Aug 14, 2009 12:46 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Answers

Classification of the major league pitchers was based upon the average WAR (from Fangraphs) for all starting pitchers from 2007-2009.

Sonnanstine was the 11th pitcher in the BORP list. Thanks for catching the mistake.

The standard deviations for the short-season leagues shown in the bottom tables are fairly large due to smaller sample sizes and relatively few innings pitched. Most of the pitchers used in the study pitched in 10+ games in each of the full season leagues, so those values are much more reliable as an indicator of the group. The lower tables were used more to get a sense of how the various groups of pitchers progressed through the minor leagues than to drive teh conclusions of the study.

by spurdynasty on Aug 14, 2009 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Purely out of curiosity, what's Brett Anderson's score here?

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 14, 2009 3:53 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

TORP Ratings of a few A's pitchers

Anderson – 104.5 – TORP
Cahill – 103.4 – TORP
Mazzaro – 85.1 – MORP
Simmons – 70.5 – Long Reliever

by spurdynasty on Aug 14, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've said this before, but

the A’s-Rangers pitching matchups are going to be a fun thing to watch over the next several years.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Aug 14, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Until Beane trades them away. :)

Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland -Tom Grieve Rangers Minor League Player of the Year
Martin Perez - Nolan Ryan Rangers Minor League Pitcher of the Year

by RangerMad on Aug 14, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Surprised Simmons is that much lower than Mazzaro

although I assume that figure includes his awful 2009 season.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 15, 2009 2:36 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Simmons vs Mazzaro

The major difference between the two is GB/FB. Simmons career GB/FB is 0.99 (0.7 in AAA this year), whereas Mazzaro has a sterling 1.90 career mark.

by spurdynasty on Aug 15, 2009 7:33 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Figured as much

It’s a fair cop. Simmons isn’t much use if he’s walking more than 2 per 9 innings.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 15, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Research

Was there any research done to validate that the stats you used were valid in determining the “success” of a MLB pitcher.

I have some major heartburn saying that Tillman is a BORP simply due to a high FB rate. Statistically speaking, GB rate has a much higher impact on ERA than actual Runs allowed – and that is mainly due to a significantly higher error rate on GB than FB. This is why I believe GB rate to be severely overrated when analyzing prospects. I cringe every time someone references it. It has a very small effect on actual success compared to the other component stats used in this study.

by guru4u on Aug 14, 2009 12:15 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Method validation was difficult due to limited minor league statistical databases

I was restricted to looking at major league pitchers whose minor league careers began within the past 7-10 years. Of the 20 or so pitchers outside the study that I used for validation, 15 were accurately categorized. Most of the outliers were pitchers whose minor league careers were shortened due to injuries.

In regard to Tillman’s GB/FB ratio, it is worth noting that according to FanGraphs, only 6 of the 35 most valuable starting pitchers in baseball this year have GB/FB rates that are at least as low as Tillman’s career minor league ratio of 1.05. The six fly ball pitchers (Verlander, Jackson, Braden, Weaver, Santana, and Cain) certainly support your suggestion that a fly ball pitcher can have success in the major leagues. The counterpoint, of course, is the other 29 pitchers on the most valuable list whose average GB/FB ratio is 1.47.

by spurdynasty on Aug 14, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Studies done by people who couldn't care less about errors have repeatedly reaffirmed the importance of getting ground balls

GB/FB ratio is one of the major components of tRA, for instance. And I’m pretty sure Graham would slap you if you mentioned errors to him.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 15, 2009 2:39 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Errors

Seems like we’ve talked about this a few times before around here. I agree. Error totals have a lot to do with range, scorekeeping, poor or inconsistent minor league field conditions, etc. Not a good stat for judging fielding.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Aug 15, 2009 8:35 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But that wasn't my point

Studies have shown that the error rate on fly balls is something like 85% less than on ground balls. And just thinking about it conceptually it makes sense.

by guru4u on Aug 15, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Meaning

I don’t care how a baserunner gets on base and scores – via hit, walk, error, passed ball on a 3rd strike, etc. ERA factors out errors – the very bias you are talking about above. But if you want to talk about the true effectiveness of a pitcher in not allowing runs, all baserunners need to be considered.

by guru4u on Aug 15, 2009 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't reply to your post

I was more making a general point about errors in evaluating fielders actually (“not a good stat for judging fielding” was, after all, my last sentence in that post), sorry for the confusion.

But GB rates are most definitely correlated with pitcher success. A pitcher with a high K rate and a high GB rate will be more successful than a pitcher with a high K rate but a low GB rate on average. Not as high a correlation as K rate, but nothing to dismiss or cringe at. And as Spur says in his post below, unearned run differences between GBs and FBs are nowhere near big enough to cancel out that effect.

In short, who knows, maybe Tillman is not a BORP, but not for the reason you say.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Aug 16, 2009 6:39 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Link?

I’d like to see some of those studies. I did research like this in the past, and ground balls have SIGNIFICANTLY less of an impact than the other components mentioned.

by guru4u on Aug 15, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Groundballs vs fly balls

I don’t know if he still does it, but Rich Lederer used to categorize major league pitchers based on thier ground ball and strike out rates (link). The run values of ground balls and fly balls have been calculated in a variety of ways by a variety of analysts (Studeman and TangoTiger are a couple of favorites if you would like to check them out). The latest estimates that I have for fly balls and ground balls are 0.192 and 0.045, respectively. If you model that for two major league pitchers who both have a K/9 of 7 and a BB/9 of 3 but whose GB/FB ratios are 0.75 and 2.00, then the difference in predicted ERA between the two is almost a full run (5.07 vs 4.23).

Specifically to your point, I am unfamiliar with any studies that have compared the unearned runs of ground ball and fly ball pitchers, though I would expect that the effects of errors and double plays would cancel each other out and leave groundball pitchers with the benefit that comes from lower XBH rates.

by spurdynasty on Aug 15, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is the study I referred to

Lederer included BB rate in his latest study, and as you can see it has much greater predictive value than GB rate.

Basically, on the top portion of the first chart, the rates are identified:

                                                   ERA RA

Above-Avg K Rate 3.84 4.16
Below-Avg K Rate 4.73 5.11

Above-Avg BB Rate 4.04 4.39
Below-Avg BB Rate 4.61 4.96

Above-Avg GB Rate 4.24 4.60
Below-Avg GB Rate 4.40 4.73

So based on the stats (this study only took MLB pitchers for the 2008 season), K Rate has a significantly greater impact on ERA and Runs Allowed than GB rate or even BB rate. BB rate has an impact that is over twice that of GB.

In short, yeah a GB is preferred to a FB. But at the same time any analysis on pitchers that equally weights GB rate to that of K rate or BB rate is significantly flawed.

THIS is why I cringe every time I start hearing something like “Tillman isn’t a good prospect because of his GB rate.” The fact is his BB rate is a MUCH bigger concern.

The difference between earned and unearned runs for GB pitchers was less than I remembered though.

by guru4u on Aug 17, 2009 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tillman's walk rate isn't any good either...

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 17, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Until this year

His BB/9 in AAA was 2.1, and in the majors it was still in the 3s

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by OldProspects on Aug 24, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

more DPs?

I agree Ks are more important, but a really high GB rate, even if there are more errors behind you, (and at the major league level that should be less of a problem than in say A ball), you also get more DPs. But an interesting point.

by wobatus on Aug 24, 2009 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you are on to something

Don’t know how much time you have, but it would be interesting to be able to take a pitchers stats at a certain level, plug them into a formula and see what his projection is. You would need to increase you sample size and do some regression testing to verify your results.

Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland -Tom Grieve Rangers Minor League Player of the Year
Martin Perez - Nolan Ryan Rangers Minor League Pitcher of the Year

by RangerMad on Aug 14, 2009 1:35 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Time and the availability of quality minor league statistics are the my key limiting factors

With large enough samples sets, I suspect that it would be possible to create decent classifiers for pitching prospects at each minor league level. The accuracy of the classifiers would likely be pretty good at the upper levels and rather poor at the lower levels. With the resources that I have available, I am forced to build classifiers with relatively small sample sets and then to ensure their relative accuracy with test sets.

by spurdynasty on Aug 14, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're using a sample of 30-odd pitchers?

That’s nowhere near big enough, especially if they weren’t selected randomly.

by dkdc on Aug 14, 2009 1:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

No argument on sample size

As noted above, I was limited to pitchers who have pitched long enough in the major leagues to establish their performance level and who are young enough to have relatively complete minor league statistical records. I restricted the analysis to 34 pitchers due to my own time constraints and to ensure that I had enough pitchers for testing the classifier that resulted from the initial study.

Based on the results of the validation study, I am confident that the TORP/MORP/BORP classifier is reasonably accurate for pitching prospects who have become major league starters in the past ten years. I can’t speak to the accuracy of the classifier for pitchers who predated that time nor can I speak to its accuracy for pitchers who failed to become major league starters.

by spurdynasty on Aug 14, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This bears following up

annually to see if it sticks. It’s been fun reading even with the small sample size warning.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Aug 14, 2009 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting

I think the results of TORP’s performance in the minors is/are extremely telling- Mat Latos says hello guys- OBVIOUS top of rotation starter who is ranked idiotically below between 2 to 15 other starters here on most lists- mostly because he has “pitched enough innings” or some such nonsense. he does what many aces do- blaze through the minors.

I will say the the reason BORPs outperformed MORPs is that they weren’t chosen selectively enough in my opinion. Is that a possibility?

by casejud on Aug 15, 2009 2:26 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Selection process

95 major league pitchers tossed enough innings in 2 of the past 3 seasons to qualify. Of those, I eliminated pitchers whose performances had significantly regressed after decent careers (e.g. Zito, Arroyo, Moyer) or who were still too early in their careers to properly classify as TORPs, MORPs, or BORPs. The pitchers who were left comprised the sample sets that were used for the study. After completing the analysis, I tested the conclusions by determining if the career minor stats of 20 or so pitchers matched how I would classify them and found the method to be very accurate.

If you are interested, please provide the names of 10 or so major league pitchers whose minor league careers began in the past ten years. I’ll run their numbers and you can see if you agree with the classification that results.

by spurdynasty on Aug 15, 2009 7:49 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Borps

I think some of these guys may be pitchers whose stuff played well at lower levels but wasn’t good enough to do that well at higher levels or in the majors.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Aug 15, 2009 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right

It seems obvious but, it’d be – or is – quite a breakthrough to have a reliable STAT that indicates this. Sometimes it isn’t easy to see what looks obvious. Its a very interesting idea anyways.

by casejud on Aug 15, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

and I agree

(and I think spur does, too) that a much larger sample and honing of the selection process would be valuable going forward. I hope spur plans to add to the sample each season for a while.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Aug 16, 2009 6:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow

So I guess Johan Santana, Justin Verlander, and Jared Weaver are all back-of-the-rotation starters then, huh? Because all of those guys are fly-ball pitchers.

by Birdfan01 on Aug 16, 2009 11:28 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

yeah

they are just getting lucky haha

by matthewmafa on Aug 17, 2009 2:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exceptions to the rule

With any classification system, there will be exceptions. Even the writers of Baseball America, with access to a massive network of scouts and statisticians, have a not insiginficant fail rate. The simple mathematical formula developed as a result of this study will have a fail-rate. Intriguingly, it identified a very high percentage of BA’s failed prospects which suggests that it might have merit.

Regarding the specific pitchers mentioned above:
Verlander overcomes his high flyball rate (career GB/FB = 1.00) by limiting the number of times that opponents put the ball in play (career K/9 = 7.9; 2009 K/9 = 10.4). His 2008 season reveals what happens when he is unable to miss enough bats; his K/9 fell to 7.3 and his ERA ballooned to 4.84.

What Verlander does, Santana does even better. In his career, Santana has struck more than a hitter per inning (9.2 K/9) and walked only 2.5/9. The 1.0 HR/9 that he has given up during his career likely contributes ~1.5 to his ERA. If he were a groundball pitcher with the same K and BB rates, he would likely have a HR/9 of ~0.7/9 and a career ERA that would be a half run better than the 3.11 mark that he has posted for his career.

Weaver follows the same theme as the two pitchers above by striking out more hitters than the average ML pitcher (7.5 K/9) and walking fewer (2.7 K/9). His career ERA (3.81) is about a half run better than league average and has been much closer to average since his outstanding rookie season (2.56 ERA).

The point to these descriptions is that a pitcher can overcome a weakness like a high fly ball rate by being excellent in other areas like strike out rate. If Hanson and Tillman are unable to drop their flyball rates, then they will only be successful if they are able to produce a high number of strikeouts and limit the walks that they give up because they are going to give up ~1 HR/9.

by spurdynasty on Aug 17, 2009 8:02 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Methodology

I have trouble with this just because of the classification of Tommy Hanson as a bottom-of-the-rotation starter. To be sure, he’s outperformed his peripherals this year, but he has sick stuff, great poise, and he’s succeeded at every level. Judging from the numbers he’s put up in the majors and the minors, I find it hard to see him as a peer of Ian Snell and Micah Owings, the starters this author identified as BORPs on his original post.

This is either a question about methodology or a question about Tommy Hanson’s future. What do you guys think?

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by alexwithclass on Aug 16, 2009 5:59 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Tommy Hanson

His minor league career suggests that he can be successful despite his high FB rate. The fact that his K/9 remained outstanding in both AA and AAA makes him unlike most of the BORPs that were considered in this study. When taking his career path into account, Hanson does appear to be a guy who could be an exception to the rule.

by spurdynasty on Aug 17, 2009 8:08 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Where is Hellickson on this?

Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.

by P Brady on Aug 16, 2009 7:25 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Hellickson

His minor league statistical profile sits right between that of the TORPs and BORPs used in the study. His career ERA (2.80), K/9 (9.7), and BB/9 (2.0) all fit very nicely with the TORPs. His career 1.18 GB/FB ratio (0.84 in the upper minors) coincides with the group of BORPs. Based solely on the numbers, I think that Hellickson is more likely to slot as a #4 or #5 pitcher in the major leagues.

by spurdynasty on Aug 17, 2009 8:17 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Where is Chris Withrow on this?

or is it too soon to tell becuase he has only pitched about 100 innings in his career

by matthewmafa on Aug 17, 2009 3:13 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Chris Withrow

TORP score = 86.4
In a small sample size, Withrow’s strong strikeout rate (10.4 K/9) is over-ridden by his high walk rate (4.8 BB/9) and average GB/FB rate (1.24). Improved command would certainly help, but his limited statistical profile doesn’t look like that of a TORP.

by spurdynasty on Aug 22, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lol at Hanson = BORP

I think he’s already proving that one faulty.

Q: If on-base pct is so important then why don't they put it on the scoreboard? -Failcoeur

A: Because the Braves don't want to show their fans how bad you suck.

by timmy3 on Aug 20, 2009 12:20 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It's called

Chris Tillman-itis.

If this analysis properly weighed K%, BB% and GB%, both of those guys’s stocks would skyrocket.

by guru4u on Aug 20, 2009 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Weighting had nothing to do with Tillman's classification

The scores listed simply reflect how close a given prospect’s minor league statistical profile is to the TORP’s that were used in the study. Tillman’s relatively low score simply reflects that his minor league stats are dissimilar to that of the TORP’s.

Tillman’s classification as a potential BORP results from the fact that his low GB/FB ratio is a common flaw in the statistical profiles of the BORPs used in the study. As noted in an article that I posted here and consistent with your own thoughts, the benefits of a high strikeout rate outweigh the costs of a high fly ball rate. Worth noting, however, is that pitchers who are fly ball prone in the minor leagues seem to have a harder time maintaining their strikeout and walk rates when they reach the major leagues than do pitchers with superior groundball rates.

by spurdynasty on Aug 22, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

As noted above, the fact that Hanson maintained a strong strikeout rate through AAA separates him from most of the BORPs considered in the study. That suggests that he could develop into a Santana/Verlander type pitcher who excels despite a sub-optimal batted ball profile. Worth noting in regards to Hanson’s early major league success, his ERA (3.05) is significantly better than his peripherals (4.08 FIP and 4.50 tRA) would suggest. A lot of that appears to be due to an unsustainably high LOB% (82.3%) and an unsustainably low HR/FB rate (7.8%). As those numbers move toward what would be expected of an above average major league pitcher, his ERA will move into the 4.00-4.50 range unless he can improve his strikeout and/or walk rates.

by spurdynasty on Aug 22, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My issue...

I have a couple problems with your method.

What did you use to decide what MLB pitchers go into which group?

By throwing out outliers in Santana and TL you corrupted your own data. How can you really compare players if you throw out some potential comps?

Some of the players you used have less then two full seasons of major league time, again giving you some bad data as far as sample size goes.

by ADLC on Aug 23, 2009 12:59 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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