Discussion - Best 3B Prospect In Baseball
by MightyMoose on Aug 13, 2009 6:07 PM EDT
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PrintTrying to generate some fantasy discussion.
I was searching through present day major league rosters and found only a handful of useful third baseman for fantasy purposes moving forward (ie. Longoria, Wright, Reynolds, Zimmerman). I don't remember a time when third base was such a shallow position to fill. Since most of us belong in some type of fantasy league, I'm curious to hear people's thoughts on who they feel is the best minor league third baseman? For the purposes of the poll, I've omitted Alvarez and Wallace, because from all indications from those in the industry they will likely find other places to play. Moustakas could well have to move at some point too, but from what I've read his arm and range is adequate to stick.
If you feel that Wallace or Alvarez will stick long-term and that one of them is the best then choose Other in the poll. If I've omitted anyone then please feel free to bring the wrath but those listed, I felt, had the greatest chance for fantasy impact at the position. Post away.
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Many have said...
he has average range. He can get to most things, but he will never be confused for Brooks Robinson, but he doesn’t have to be with his bat there. I think he sticks at third for a majority of his career, or at least until the end of his prime.
Before his hot streak
There were a lot of very bleak reports coming out about his defense. With both BA and KG agreeing that he will need to move sooner rather than later. I haven’t heard much on his D since the future’s game.
If you have ever seen him...
he looks pretty decent at third. Having seen both play third, I think he is better than Wallace with the glove and he has better range. if he were to drop about 10-20 pounds this season, I would have no doubt that he would be an average defensive 3rd baseman.
re:
I haven’t made the trip to Altoona (although, it really isn’t that far of a drive). I’m going to remain skeptical about his prospects at third until I actually hear something positive from BA or KG about his defense. I wouldn’t bet on him losing weight if his last off season is any indicator.
At least KG has backed off of that statement, not sure about BA but I didn’t hear them say it either.
July 24 Minor League update
Pedro Alvarez, 3B, Pirates (Double-A Altoona)
Thursday’s stats: 2-for-4, 2 RBI, 2 K
Alvarez didn’t hit for power on Wednesday night, but the point is, he’s really starting to swing the bat, and is currently in the hottest streak of his pro career. He’s now hitting .354/.386/.569 in 17 July games, and even the defense has improved. He has made just one miscue in his last 20 contests. He’ll be fine.
August 5 Minor League update
Pedro Alvarez, 3B, Pirates (Double-A Altoona)
Tuesday’s stats: 3-for-6, 2 2B, HR (8), 2 R, 2 RBI, 2 K
On July 10th, Alvarez went 0-for-5 with three strikeouts, dropping his Eastern League batting average to a lowly .214. Since then, he’s been among the most dangerous hitters on the circuit, batting .380/.470/.690 in his last 20 games, while also making just one error in the field. Despite all of the moves the Pirates have made over the last 12 months, Alvarez remains the centerpiece of their system. He could be in line for a very serious look next spring.
Vitters if he can stick, but Moustakas is the most likely stick on this list....
Great hands and a strong arm.
Huh?
There’s absolutely no question of Chisenhall moving AFAIK. He has a ton of range, far more than the other guy. Chisenhall was a shortstop prior to 09, and there was some question of him sticking there – unlike Moustakas.
Moustakas has a better arm, and better hands.....
Which are FAR more important for a 3rd basemen to have than range….What good is range if you can’t field hard hit balls, or can’t throw out runners at first? I will take Moustakas’s fielding over Chissenhall’s, although Lonnie should be very impressive as well.
-Range is important at 3B and everywhere.
-Chisenhall was regarded as having an above average arm at SS. He has a pretty strong arm.
-How does Moustakas have better hands? You basing that on Chisenhall having a high error total? Moustakas also has high error totals – and his are comparatively more troubling considering his lack of range contra Chisenhall. Also, Chisenhall only started playing 3B in the spring.
For 3B defense, Ill take the better athlete in Chisenhall. Th only real edge I see for Moustakas is arm, and its not like Chisenhall has a weak arm, its just that Chisenhall is good while Moustakas has a great arm.
Moustakas has better hands because of the error totals, and because of his previous experience as a shortstop....
You cant just throw out the error totals, they are very telling.
Chisenhall: 22 errors in 227 chances, 12 double plays
Moustakas: 21 errors in 311 chances, 23 double plays
Moustakas played SS in high school, and has a similar range to that of Chisenhall, with a better arm. I am confused as to why you think Chisenhall is so much better…
I disagree with this. Chisenhall has more range from everything Ive heard. That IS the REASON for the error totals. Given Moustakas’s body type I think most believe this difference will only become greater over time. In fact, there are doubts as to whether Moustakas will even stay at 3B. I think youre way overrating his defense.
What you are saying dosent make any sense about Chisenhall's range being the cause of his error total.....
It would make sense is Chisenhall had more chances, but he doesn’t. All things considered, it appears that Moustakas gets to more balls than Chisenhall does.
No...
This is another example of why you cant trust minor league numbers out of context. The scouting reports are much more important and strongly favor Chisenhall.
The amount of chances has a lot more to do with the pitching staff than the 3B. Its not even close to some sort of indication of skill. Once again, minor league official scoring is wildly inconsistent, so we also have no clue what constituted an error.
Keep making excuses, facts are facts....
Moustakas played short stop before he entered the bigs just like Chisenhall, and by all accounts has at least a similar range. According to the stats, whether they are skewed or not, Moustakas gets to more balls, has less errors, and makes more double plays. Scouting reports also indicate that Moustakas has a cannon for an arm, which you are disputing. I don’t understand what you are arguing here…
Those dont even remotely resemble "facts"
1) Show me an account where Moustakas is credited with similar range to Chisenhall. Ill even go first and show you how youre wrong:
Moustakas:
Other than the arm, Moustakas is not a premium athlete. He’s built a bit like a catcher, and while he has soft hands, he needs to improve his positioning and reactions at the hot corner.http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=8498
My biggest concern about either of them is that I’m not convinced that Moustakas will have enough range to stay at third base.
- Jim Callis
http://kingsofkauffman.com/2009/07/28/mike-moustakas-and-friends/
Moustakas has limited range
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/events/draft_report/y2007/index.jsp?mc=moustakas
With only one home run in his last 41 games, [Moustakas is] now batting just .263/.302/.415 on the year, and his defense at third base has received some rough reviews.
http://baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=9202
Chisenhall:
He’s a surprisingly adept fielder as well, with good instincts and an above-average arm at shortstop.http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=8467
Drafted as a shortstop, Chisenhall’s defensive reputation was merely so-so, but the scouts say that his transition to third base has so far been a successful one. “People automatically assume that fringy shortstops with good arms can just play third, but that’s not the case—it’s such a different position,” he said. “But Chisenhall has been really good there. He’s got good instincts, a very good arm, and the thing I really like is that you can see before games that he’s really working on the defensive side of things.”
http://baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=8804
After researching it Chisenhall in fact is in the midst of a 27-game errorless streak at High-A Kinston. Now, a 27-game errorless streak is not all that impressive and errors alone don’t tell the whole story how a player is performing defensively; however, when you consider that he had 19 errors in his first 52 games – about one every 2.5 games – but in his last 27 he has none, this is noteworthy.
As many know, Chisenhall made the switch from shortstop to third base this year, a process that started at the end of last season when he went to the Instructional League in mid-September. Over the course of the past nine months he has transitioned well to the new position, and while there were some speed bumps along the way as evidenced by the high error totals the first two months of the season, the sudden drop in errors over the last five weeks shows he is adapting well to the new position. This is of no surprise as the Indians have said all year that he continues to get better every game at third base
http://www.indiansprospectinsider.com/2009/07/chisenhalls-streaks-are-intact.html
2) The stats don’t show what you are saying, plain and simple. Minor league stats are useless without translation. What good are stats that are skewed
3) Once again, Chisenhall is newer to the position than Moustakas, and as the quote above illustrates, after a rough start w/ regards to errors he has been a much better fielder than Moustakas the rest of the year.
4) I NEVER disputed anything about Moustakas’s arm. Don’t know where youre getting that.
5) Why the attitude? Especially when youre full of c***?
let me also add
though they were both at SS when drafted, there was speculation Chisenhall might stay at SS, whereas Moustakas was pretty much assumed to be moving to another position.
Whoa there champ, no need to blow a gasket...
I have seen Moustakas play, and I think hes a fantastically gifted third baseman. As far as I can tell, the stats are clearly in his favor whether you disagree with them or not. You cant just play the minor league stats don’t mean shit card, because errors, no matter what the level, DO mean something.
Secondly, as was stated in the first link you posted, Moustakas has GREAT hands which have allowed him to handle hard hit balls around third base. I would rather have a guy with average range that can field hard hit grounders and throw bullets to first than a guy with good range who is worse at fielding and throwing.
Thirdly, I meant to say that you weren’t disputing Moustakas supremacy at throwing.
Your argument that Chissenhall is newer to the position thus cant be compared with Moustakas now is also crap; Moustakas split his games between SS and 3B last year, and even then, outperformed how Chisenhall is doing at 3B.
Viciedo
doesn’t really belong in the conversation. Though maybe it’s just because he was rushed and shouldn’t even been in AA.
But right now, he’s just not doing well.
Logan Forsythe is a solid 3B prospect
Dewey Finn = Dylan McKay, King Billy Royal = Zack Morris, RedSoxFaithful = Millhouse Van Houten, Paul Thomas = Steve Urkel, Galt = Screech Powers, Bravesin07 = Richard Stabone, Hero66 = Beavis, Slurve = Phoebe Buffay
there are other options
Josh Bell, James Darnell, Logan Forsythe, Matt Dominguez
really?
I’d take Bell over Viciedo. Both have some long range questions about their ability to stick at 3rd, but Bell has a better bat as of now. I think I’d take Darnell/Dominguez over Viciedo, but admittedly, haven’t thought much about it.
james darnell
always fun to read about a high school rival. bergesen, wallace, crawford, darnell, ross, mcdaniel, jeff lyman, the gorgen brothers, bryan shaw, robbie waite, johnny anderson, charlie ruiz…there was a lot of talent in the east bay in 04-05-06
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
I'm from Benicia
We aren’t exactly true East Bay, but we had a few guys make it to the minors from that stretch too (Craig Bennigson ’05 probably being the best of the bunch. Rockies system)
Outman, fighter of the Hitman, champion of the K, he's a master of scoreless innings and friendship for everyone.
by walk off bunt on Aug 18, 2009 3:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Dayan's overall numbers may not look good
But he’s making impressive adjustments (see here http://futuresox.com/frontpage/?p=886). He’s very young, first season in the US etc. etc. There’s a different sound when the ball comes off his bat, he clearly sticks out amongst AA hitters despite the young age and, contrary to reports, he’s a hard worker.
He belongs in this conversation.
by The Big Hurt on Aug 13, 2009 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't consider Viciedo a 3B Prospect. I don't think anybody outside of Kenny Williams thinks he'll play third in the majors.
by thejd44 on Aug 14, 2009 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions
TotalZone disagrees with you
As do many people who have watched him play and aren’t just going by the errors total.
by The Big Hurt on Aug 14, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
If Brett Wallace projects as a first baseman
Viciedo projects as… a bad first baseman.
Viciedo, if he’s not already, will be fatter and less mobile than Wallace. I don’t see how he’ll stick at third.
by thejd44 on Aug 14, 2009 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Chiz!
Vitters reminds me a lot of Jeff Francoeur in a bad way. Moustakas will be moved to RF in my opinion to take advantage of that rocket arm and because of Alex Gordon at 3B. Viciedo has done really well lately (post all-star: 24 games, .348/.383/.528), but needs to work on his strike zone judgement. I think Chisenhall is the most complete package on the list.
Dewey Finn = Dylan McKay, King Billy Royal = Zack Morris, RedSoxFaithful = Millhouse Van Houten, Paul Thomas = Steve Urkel, Galt = Screech Powers, Bravesin07 = Richard Stabone, Hero66 = Beavis, Slurve = Phoebe Buffay
Gamel? Darnell?
Both have better bats than anyone on the list, and both could conceivably stick at third (although Gamel’s glove is still pretty bad there).
I considered Darnell
He’s 22 in High A, which isn’t old for the league, but he is a year and a half older than Moose and almost two years older than Vitters and Viciedo. I think based on age and performance either Chisenhall or Viciedo would get the edge having advanced to Double A at 20.
yeah, maybe its just me but Darnell
should be on the list over Viciedo
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Aug 13, 2009 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Voted other
for Darnell. I like him and Forsythe. He’ll have to make the AA jump. Forsythe has struggled slightly, but line isn’t bad. Petco will be tough for him. I don’t knock Darnell too much for age. He can do AA and AAA at 23 next year.
I thought that too
I remember reading that he is terrible at 3B. If the Pirates give Pedro a shot at third, this discussion is a no brainer.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Aug 15, 2009 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Not really.....
Even if Gamel played a passable thirdbase, his bat is nowhere near the level of Pedro’s. However that is really irrelevant because Gamel has made 13 errors in 54 games again this year which puts him on pace for 39 in a full season. When you combine that with his .883 career fielding percentage, it is obvious that he does not have the glove to stick at third.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Aug 15, 2009 2:03 AM EDT up reply actions
I voted for Moose
He’s struggled this year, but Wilmington is a tough place to hit. Every time I think he’s breaking out, he seems to go into a big slump. Very streaky.
Not taking anything away from him . .
. . . other than not including him in a poll of the top prospects at his position.
+1
Matt Dominguez put up a .753 OPS at Hi-A as a 20 year old and is currently in AA. He’s also, PROBABLY, the best defensive third baseman in the minors. I think you could convince me to have Forsythe and Dominguez over anyone on this list with the exception of Moustakas, but what do I know.
Darnell’s not a 3B in the future.
Correction
As a 19 year old (he turns 20 at the end of this month), and he did it in the FSL. He’s shown pretty good power for the league, and, while his numbers aren’t as sexy as last years, I think he’s had a very successful season.
that's why there's 'Other'
I don’t think there are only 4 top prospects, but those were my top four choices. Had it been extended to between 5-10 then he obviously would be in there. It’s a good discussion, no need to start trying to nit pick.
by MightyMoose on Aug 13, 2009 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions
that was to GoGo's comment
not the rest of the line.
by MightyMoose on Aug 13, 2009 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Short Stop
I think your answer to the best 3B prospect is probably someone that is currently playing short. not sure who i would chose, but traditionally most 3B are former short stops.
+1/2
Quite possible, one of the Beckham’s or possibly Wilmer Flores? I’m sure there are many other guys who should have been considered as well.
For you
who fits that mold right now? I guess Wilmer Flores from the Mets maybe? Didn’t really want to speculate on could-be guys, but it’s a possibility.
Yeah, but
It’s not like there are a lot of elite bats at SS in the minors. And a lot of times SS’s get moved to the OF or 2B rather than 3B.
As I think of the top 100 worthy SS’s, only Wilmer Flores comes to mind as a guy that might move to 3B. And there’s no way I take him over the options presented above.
Josh Bell
22 years old in AA.. Bell has Power and great Plate discipline and has cut down on the strikeouts big time and strick at 3rd base
Darnell is also 22 but in A+ in hitters paradise so he cant be ranked ahead of Bell
I like him, good call
Here is what Kevin Goldstein said about him…
Josh Bell, 3B, Dodgers (Double-A Chattanooga)
A fourth-round pick in 2005, Bell has always combined impressive tools with good/not-great performances due to a poor approach. Things have changed considerably for him this year, as his walk rate is way up, his strikeout rate is way down, and that combination is rarely seen suddenly only after a player reaches the upper levels. The exciting thing is that the bat is beginning to explode as well; by going 12-for-21 in his last six games with four doubles and pair of home runs, he’s now batting .297/.388/.500. No wonder his name is suddenly coming up quite a bit in trade rumors
Dewey Finn = Dylan McKay, King Billy Royal = Zack Morris, RedSoxFaithful = Millhouse Van Houten, Paul Thomas = Steve Urkel, Galt = Screech Powers, Bravesin07 = Richard Stabone, Hero66 = Beavis, Slurve = Phoebe Buffay
I like him too
The O’s believe he can stick at 3rd. He also needs to improve his splits from the right side
Doing very well so far with Bowie
In the Top 10 3B for me
should be in the O’s Top 10 by year’s end, if not already, and maybe even Top 5.
top 5
cause the Os have graudated a lot of their prospects… he would be top 3 in the dodgers system for sure
Bell was just listed....
….as having the best defense at 3b in AA in BA’s best tools. While I don’t know whether or not to believe that, since it goes against the scouting reports I’ve seen, it raises his stock some.
He reportedly lost a lot of weight
Which has improved his movement and quickness at the hot corner. But if what BA says is true, I don’t see how he’s not the best 3B prospect in the minors.
I can see several things....
….foremost being that this is his breakout campaign, and he doesn’t have a track record of this level of play over multiple seasons. He also probably is lower in the estimation of many because he had a down year as a high school senior (due largely to the death of his father) and slipped in the draft and because the rub on him has been that he may not stick at 3b, which makes it sound unlikely that he’ll ever be a top defender at the ML level. And I think that the fact that he was traded for Sherrill also will make it hard for people to accept, even though the Carlos Santana deal last season was the Dodgers giving up a top 5 at the position prospect for a player who doesn’t appear to be worth it. And while I have no way to evaluate this, people may see his potential ceiling as lower than that of others who have done less so far – stats aren’t everything at the minor league level.
That said, at this point, it won’t surprise me if we’re talking about Bell next season the way we talk about Santana this season.
well if Ned colletti was smarter
he wouldnt trade away Top 5 Talent for veterans down the stretch like he does every year
If so, he had a ways to go
I saw Bell play at Bowie last night. He had a very slow bat against mediocre Portland pitching. It may have just been an off night. One thing clearly does stand out: the man is all of 219 pounds. A lot of it seems to be concentrated below his back side. He will have to be careful or that body will not age well.
zzard (Arlington, VA)
Danny Valencia
I know he isn’t elite
but his grade has probably gone up from a B- to a B
I think he’s right there on par with Matt Dominguez although Domino has got more upside and is younger but is in AA while Valencia is in AAA and may be a September call-up THIS year for the Twins.
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Aug 13, 2009 7:30 PM EDT reply actions
+1
he should be given a shot. I’m surprised the Twins haven’t done this yet, they’re usually pretty good about giving their younger players a chance to prove themselves.
well, given his age and contract
I’m sure they tried to move him. The power is decent but at the expense of his BA and OBP, which are terrible. He’s broken down pretty quick and I don’t think he’s gonna have many takers in the off-seaon. I think Valencia will be given a look in Sept.
He's only on a one year deal for peanuts
And he’s still an excellent glove at third base. The Twins are still in the race and there’s no reason to roll the dice with Valencia unless Crede gets hurt
I agree
that’s why I said Sept. That presumes the Twinkies will be out of it by then.
Sorry for the confusion, I didn’t mean his contract was big, I meant they would try moving him because they have no interest in re-signing him, so they could’ve thrown him out there to see what they could get in return.
Been more than that
He’s been one of the better 3B in the majors this season. A real bargain for what they’re paying him.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
+1
His defense has actually been pretty phenomenal and that’s where he derives most of his value
by gorilla_baller on Aug 13, 2009 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions
19 year old in AA
matt dominguez should get a little love up there too. Considering he is young, has a nice bat (his second half stats in FSL show that hard on hitters league and park jupiter) and most importantly for the hot corner he has a killer glove.
Most likely the best defensive glove in the minors
yep in the discussion
for sure. If my leauge took into account defense, he’d certainly vault up into the top 5.
So basically
this was just a fantasy baseball question and you omitted Alvarez and Wallace because they were already taken?
huh?
No, all the above are taken. People on this site are extremely knowledgeable and pretty opinionated. I’m curious to see who people feel is the best long-term 3B prospect is.
Keep an eye on
Edinson Rincon. Young and in SS-A but he’s shown good power and a good approach at the plate.
Great hitter, glove not so much
There ought to be at least one – and maybe – two guys on the player development side for the Padres whose sole job for the next two years is to spend 5 hours a day hitting ground balls at Rincon until such time as he can accidentally field 10 in a row. (And yes, I know, he’d never fielded a grounder until he signed having caught until then, but still, he’s pretty brutal by any standard.)
by realitypolice on Aug 16, 2009 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions
doesn't
brett wallace belong in this conversation?
http://www.simdynasty.com/index.jsp?refer=mychiefs58
read the post
the post assumes he’ll move off the position long-term. If you feel otherwise, certainly voice your thoughts.
I’d imagine the A’s would be willing to give Wallace a chance considering Carter looks to be their 1B/DH in the coming years
by gorilla_baller on Aug 13, 2009 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought they were try Carter in the OF?
I’m not a judge on where guys end up, I only go by what the scouts/baseball pundits say. I presume the scouts and the guys on the inside that have the opportunity to speak to guys in the organization are probably better judges of where guys will end up.
by MightyMoose on Aug 13, 2009 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I heard they were going to try him at 3B too
But I’m guessing that didn’t work out too well. From what I’ve read he’s got a good arm and should be athletic enough to play in a corner outfield spot.
He seems to have problems with grounders
which suggests he’ll actually be more skilled, or at least not much less so, in COF than at 1B.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
ideally if everything worked out defensively
something like
cardenas at second (well, shortstop would be great, but let’s not get too crazy)
wallace at third
carter in right
weeks in center
doolittle at first
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
James (Waterbury)
Chris Carter is having a big season for the Athletics, how do you see him and Brett Wallace fitting together on the diamond?
Keith Law (2:12 PM)
Carter can’t play first at all (and despite the big season I think there are legitimate questions about the bat that won’t be answered till he’s in the majors). I’d give Wallace a very good chance to play first.
Not sure why you think Carter is going to be able to handle RF if he can’t handle 1B.
Vote for Pedro
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Aug 13, 2009 11:38 PM EDT reply actions
Marcellus Wallace
is the best, followed closely by Wilson Alvarez.
Vitters
That hand injury just keeps coming back to bite him. If he could stay healthy for a season and not let injuries affect his performance (like they have the past two years), he could run away with this thing.
Learning to take a pitch once in a while would help
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
He fractured his plate patience bone, apparently.
and it never healed right.
For a top prospect I fear the condition is terminal.
Other
I’ll be honest, I’m voting other as a grab all right now. I don’t love any of the three all that much. I like Josh Bell’s chances of sticking at 3rd for the near future due to how the Orioles system stacks up. There’s something about Darnell that I don’t like that much, but I can’t put any reason to it, and unless Headley starts hitting consistently in the next year or two, I could see Darnell perhaps getting a look by 2011. I like Dominguez, and Valencia should get a long look at 3rd from the Twins soon.
Adrian Cardenas
Should be in the picture too, as he splits time between 2B and 3B, with 3B the most expected position due to Jemile Weeks below him and Mark Ellis above, and the lack of any other true 3B Prospects in the A’s system.
Don't believe in yourself.
Believe in Me who believes in You.
+1
OrtizItThisOne: In the name of baseball! /does steroids
by CaliforniaJag on Aug 14, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Other
Between Pedro Alvarez likely being able to play there for at least 3-4 years, Josh Bell’s rising performance, Matt Dominguez’s glove and power potential and other more stealth candidates like Darnell and Forsythe (among others), and recent draftees Borchering and Davidson, the end answer is much more likely to be “other” than any of the options presented.
In other words, if I were in Vegas and wanting to place a bet, I would be the field.
Missing the point entirely
You would LOSE the bet because you can’t follow instructions. Other does not mean “The Field”. It means – What other player do you like? Like, as in, someone SPECIFICALLY.
Gents, thanks for all the great feedback
The end result shows that there really is a lot of debate as to who are the top 3-4 guys at the top, including top spot. Will be interesting to follow these guys over the next few years to see who sticks/moves/emerges, etc.
Interesting and +1
Close to the majors (so close, yet so far-lol), NO questions with the glove, and even with his struggles in the show there has to be at least as much floor and upside as any other 3b prospect listed or even of the other guys mentioned.
It’s kinda a close call amongst a bunch of cantidates but, Wood seems like the best bet. Now, if he only gets a real CHANCE to start there.
He's over the at-bat quota
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
He is...
… but, a loophole is the question- “Who’s the best minor league 3b?” – not the best who qualifies as a prospect. I’ve always felt we should do a better job around here of clasifying – establishesd big leaguer/ prospect- isn’t anybody somebody deems as having a future as a big leaguer but hasn’t done it yet a prospect?
You need an arbitrary cutoff somewhere
or else you end up having boring arguments over whether someone ought to be considered a prospect or not.
I’d say the existing cutoff is fine. 130 AB is enough to tell you some things but not everything, which I’m OK with.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
I agree
For the most part – for purposes of whatever the discussion is- but its kinda funny that in Wood’s case most of the community here believes that his ab’s tell us the exact OPPOSITE of what you’d think by looking at them. Until recently I’d say most people think he’s outperform either Izturis, Aybar and Figgins.
Anyways, the cutoff is fine to keep the conversation as speculatory and abstract as possible but I’m also cool with discussing prospects who haven’t got a full shot yet but have been bouncing between AAA and the majors.
Incidentally, Bell's on BA's Hot Sheet this week
Free content
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/prospect-hot-sheet/2009/268713.html
Team: Double-A Bowie (Eastern)
Age: 22
Why He’s Here: .500/.577/.864 (11-for-22), 2 2B, 2 HR, 5 RBIs, 4 BB, 3 SO
The Scoop: The day he was traded to the Orioles, Bell became Baltimore’s third baseman of the future. But he’s put an exclamation point on that by hitting .462/.548/.769 in his first eight games in Bowie. It’s worth also noting that Bell’s glovework impressed Southern League managers, a group that voted him the best defensive third baseman in the league. The only wart left on his game is his complete inability to hit lefthanders, which makes him a switch-hitter in name only. He has 13 home runs this year, and all have come from left side. Going back to ’07, when he made his full-season ball debut, Bell has hit 33 home runs from his strong side—and only one from the right side.
wow best defensive 3rd basemen in AA?
plus hes killling the ball in AA at 22 years old….
May we have the best 3rd base prospect in baseball right here>>???
Southern League isn't the whole of AA
That being said, I think there’s a case for Bell, though I probably wouldn’t back him as the best 3B
TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems
by OldProspects on Aug 14, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Dominguez
is the best 3B in the Southern League. No questions.
I know minor league defensive stats don’t mean much, but right now he’s a +19 UZR/150 MLB fielder. That’s Gold Glove territory, and he’s only 19.
Alex Liddi...
should be in the team photo on that list. He needs to prove a lot in Double-A next year, but a .901 road OPS to go with a 1.225 mark at home is a very good season, even for the Cali league.
Also, I really don’t think 3B is all that shallow at the major league level. You have 3 absolute superstars for the foreseeable future in Longoria, Zimmerman, and Wright (even with his low power year). In addition to the 4 guys you named, Alex Rodriguez, Aramis Ramirez, Gordon Beckham, Ian Stewart, Pablo Sandoval, and Kevin Youkilis (should play enough games to keep his eligibility for a few more years) are all really good options for the next 3+ years. Alex Gordon, and Edwin Encarnacion are still in their mid-20’s and still have upside, and there are quite a few veterans each year who play enough games at the position to keep their eligibility. Shortstop, now THERE’s a fantasy sinkhole right now.
Young 3rd basemen
While the ROY eligible prospects at 3rd base are not overwhelming the group of young 3rd basemen that are currently in the majors is pretty darn impressive.
Moustakas vs Dominguez
I compare these two because they come from the same HS, and throughout most of their prep careers Domingo was considered the best prospect. The prospect world, much like the draft is full of recent inflation and Moustakas is a great example of that. Domingo has shown better patience and power in a tougher league, while being the best defensive 3B in the minors (whereas Moustakas likely doesn’t stick). When you take away their draft status, there is more reason to believe in Dominguez as a solid MLB producer than Moustakas.
In fairness to Moose
he’s playing in one of the tougher hitting environments in the minors. Wilmington is not a hitter friendly park. The splits speak for themselves.
by MightyMoose on Aug 15, 2009 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Why...
…would a guy who has struggled to play well, Josh Bell, and finally started to show some signs of doing something at age 22 at AA be ahead of a guy, Viciedo, who is 20- and has held his own in AA and is playing in Birmingham?
Bell could be a late bloomer but, to me i see the minor league record of a marginal major league regular so far while Viciedo has the chance to be much more.
Chisenhall looks like one of those guys who will find a way to maximize his skills- not great power or ideal skills for 3b but, still a solid big leaguer.
James Darnell is sure intriging- the batting eye, the hitting result everywhere he has been- still want to see AA though
I still really like Moustakas, and Alvarez, and I think Wallace will come around with the bat but, I think evidence shows they will all end up as 1B or RF in Moustakas’ case.
Best 3b prospects in the minors? Im gonna go with…
1 Gamel – he sticks and is decent at 3b and really hits
2 Wood – he sticks and wins gold gloves and hits
3 Viciedo – he mans 3b for a few years and really hits- HES the guy who reminds me of Miguel Cabrera- his 2009 reminds me of Migg’y 2002- before he exploded. lots of reasons to think Dayan will too
4 Chisenhall- becomes a solid 3b in the mold of Bill Mueller
5 Darnell or Bell
Don’t think Velencia, Bell, Forsythe make it as starters in MLB. Ok, maybe Bell can do it. I like him better than the other two but, I have my doubts
gamel will be the worst fielding 3rd basemen in the history of MLB. He would make 50 errors in a whole MLB season. Unacceptable
wood needs to be in MLB already.. poor guy is rotting away in the minors
Viceido is OPSing .700… thats horrible i dont even care if hes only 20.. plus are any of these guys ages true?
Chissenhall is number 1 i think
Darnell is 22 in Lake Elsinore(hittters paradise) congradulations lets see if you can do it in AA not in A+ especailly in the hitters paradise
Bell is going to be platooned because he cant hit leftys to Save his life but kills right handed pitching(slugging over .600 with a OPS of over 1,000… and for what you said about bell… its Called IMPROVEMENT and conditioning… lost a ton of weight
chisenhall
wood
bell
darnell
gamel
viciedo
Lake Elsinore is not a hitter's paradise
Runs, doubles, and (especially) HRs are suppressed there — 0.76 HR multiplier for both last year and 2007. The left-center field wall is 425 feet from home plate.
I honestly think...
Alvarez has a better chance at being an average defensive 3rd baseman than Gamel does and he has a better bat. I highly doubt Pittsburgh moves him from third.
+1
Do people really think Gamel can be better than Pedro in either of these areas. Pedro has a better bat and he surely has a better glove. Gamel couldn’t catch an STD in a whorehouse.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Aug 15, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Completely disagree with you
His defenseive problems are overblown IMO. All he really needs to iron out is his throwing and he has got a LOT better this year while people don’t even notice at all.
Alvarez has really started to do his thing at AA but, Gamel did too in a full season. I’d grade them pretty similarily myself and I’d I’d like anyone to show me some sort of evidence that Alvarez is clearly better.
I guess I could see ranking Alvarez a tab higher based on another year of development but, unfortunately he won’t get anything like a fell season in AAA next year I don’t think.
Pirates have Andy LaRoche at 3b and a gaping hole at 1b. That being said I sure would like to see the basic fielding stats of Pedro Alvarez this year- don’t where to find them- as usual you can gleen much, much more from them than the random speculation on here. Never ceases to amaze me.
I actually WATCHED Gamel play 2 games vs Tacome in AAA this year and a few more for the Brew and the YEARS of nonsense I heard on here was remarkable- he looks good over there- a real good athlete with pretty good range. It’s the same exact thing as Jed Lowrie a couple years ago- much ado about NOTHING!
4 games?
Have you heard of small sample size? The fact that he has a career fielding percentage under .900 should tell you that he is not capable of playing MLB level thirdbase. Even this year he would be on pace for 39 errors in a full season.
Also, you say that the Pirates have Laroche at 3B and a gaping hole at 1B. Who would you rather have between Garrett Jones and Laroche? Judging by their performances I think the gaping hole is at 3B.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Aug 16, 2009 2:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Garrett Jones is not a viable starter
I’d be shocked if he ever matched what he did in July again. Andy LaRoche, while certainly not great, is an average player (thanks to his defense). Garrett Jones is looking like a nice bench player, but I certainly wouldn’t play him long term at first base.
Steve Pearce has looked good lately, and I’d expect a Pearce/Clement platoon to be implemented next season. The question will be whether or not the difference between Andy’s glove and Pedro’s glove is bigger than the difference between Pearce/Clement’s bat and Andy’s bat.
I agree on Jones
Unfortunately I think that Laroche is an even worse player. I used to be a huge fan of Laroche but it appears the Dodgers poor handling of him stunted his development.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Aug 16, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Any chance LaRoche can be moved to 2B?
There was a post on Fangraphs about how most guys who can play a good third base are capable of playing a decent second. CHONE projects LaRoche to be just average at second. It might be a good way to make all the pieces fit.
Maybe
He probably could handle it, but I like Delwyn Young there. He hasn’t been that bad defensively (UZR/150 of -8.1, mostly due to his double play rating), and he has been pretty good offensively. If anyone moves to second base, it’d probably be Neil Walker.
Isn't Neil Walker... you know... terrible?
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
re: Walker
Eh, depends how you define terrible. He’s still rather young, is supposed to be a good defensive third baseman, and has shown good power in AAA this year. I’d like to see him walk more, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he turned into a decent major leaguer.
Todd Frazier
is likely the heir to 3B in Cincy. He’s also played the OF as well as 2B in the minors. The problem is that the Reds have Soto and Francisco in the minors as well all playing 3B. Fraizer reminds me of Ian Stewart.
Yeah, but nobody believe Francisco is a 3B, do they?
by realitypolice on Aug 20, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
For that matter...
Nobody believes Francisco is ever going to be a good big league hitter, do they? He’s a less athletic Wily Mo Pena.
by realitypolice on Aug 24, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
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