Smoak Promoted to AAA
by DJSlam on Jul 4, 2009 3:13 PM EDT
68 comments
http://startelegramsports.typepad.com/foul_territory/2009/07/smoak-to-triple-a.html
He was due for this because it seemed like he had nothing left to prove in AA. The only thing that held him back was the injury. I wonder how long it will be until he cracks the majors. Any guesses? With the continuing struggles of Chris Davis, I'm not sure how long they can keep him down, especially if they want to contend this year.
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I don't know
I just hope that he starts to hit vs. leftys.
The 2009 Texas Rangers offense: sigh...
by Kinslerhomer on Jul 4, 2009 3:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What about power?
Is anybody else even a little concerned that Smoak has hit only 6 homers in 180 ABs in AA? He’s done wonderfully there, but with the help of a .380 BABIP – what will happen once that falls?
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by OldProspects on Jul 6, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love Davis...
But I see him getting sent down after the All-Star break if Smoak’s ready. Both have plus power and are plus defenders, however, you just can’t look past Davis’s numbers anymore.
The original plan was to transition Davis to 3B to open up 1B for Smoak, but who knows…Davis could be trade bait if Texas is going to make a push.
by AL ONLY GM on Jul 4, 2009 3:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The original plan was to transition Davis to 3B to open up 1B for Smoak
Where did you hear that?
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
by RangerMad on Jul 4, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just blog sites
Obviously Smoak was so advanced that Texas had to come up with a plan quickly. I mean they played Davis 32 times at 3B last year and 51 at 1B ( I believe). With Salty, Teagarden, and Ramirez jammed up at C, I’m assuming Ramirez will be the future DH with Davis out of a job if he’s not at 3B. He is to much of a talent to sit and the Rangers have already shown great patience with him. I assume he’ll move to 3B or get traded.
http://rangersblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2009/01/qa-with-chris-davis.html
http://rangersblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/08/can-chris-davis-handle-the-hot-corner.html
http://gorangers.wordpress.com/category/chris-davis/
http://www.kffl.com/player/15137/MLB
by AL ONLY GM on Jul 4, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
or boston
I am beginning to lose patience
With my personal relations.
They are not deep
And they are not cheap.
W.H. Auden
by jimduquettesucked on Jul 4, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So where would this leave Michael Young?
i doubt theyve written Davis out of their future plans or anything, either. He’s still a nice talent. This isnt the real Chis Davis we’re seeing. There is still plenty to like about him going forward. Max Ramirez has been pretty bad at AAA and has had a wrist injury all year.
by alskor on Jul 4, 2009 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was never the desired plan
and even if it was in fall 2008, Young’s move to 3b obviated it no?
Smoak won’t be promoted to replace Chris this year, he has too many issues to work on and just spent many weeks on the DL; you’ll see him start at 1b in 2010.
The future DH is up in the air and MaxRam is hurt this year so that decision won’t be made until the off-season or spring training.
“if TX is going to make a push”?- they are in first place.
by Goyogringo on Jul 5, 2009 2:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I take it you have never seen Davis play?
3B is not an option for him. His time at 3B at the MLB level was more out of desperation than ability.
According to everything out of the front office Davis is not going to 3B.
JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook
by laxtonto on Jul 4, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There had never been a plan to move Davis to 3B.
Perhaps you’ve heard of Michael Young? He’s not going anywhere, and Davis is not a good 3B. Ideally Davis gets out of his funk and remains at 1B with his solid defense and Smoak is at DH.
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by t ball on Jul 4, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Young was almost out the door
While Davis might have been playing 3B “out of desperation” they wanted to test him at 3B to see if they could groom him at the hot corner. Young was then at SS and his defense was declining. Management asked/told Young he was moving to 3B. They were bringing up Andrus because he was superior fielder and he started to piss and moan and asked/demanded a trade. Who knows what will happen with Young.
Be that as it may, there is a substantial logjam at C/1B/DH and something needs to give. There is no way they will put Smoak at DH when he is a better defender then Davis….doesn’t make sense.
by AL ONLY GM on Jul 4, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Davis is the better defender at 1B.
by NoNameOnCard on Jul 4, 2009 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Scott Servais also said he is.
The 2009 Texas Rangers offense: sigh...
by Kinslerhomer on Jul 4, 2009 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He absolutely is.
I’ve watched them both plenty. In the minds of nearly everyone who has watched them both, there is no question that Davis is the better defender at 1B.
by NoNameOnCard on Jul 4, 2009 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no offense...
but defense is not an easy to thing to evaluate and especially not for an amateur posting on a message board.
Its hard to believe that there is “no question” Davis is better after all the glowing reports on Smoaks defense.
Honestly, and I am not trying to start something, but I think alot of fans are using Davis’s defense as justification for him disappointing so badly this year at the plate.
by jsmall404 on Jul 5, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
NNOC
isn’t as amateur as you or me FWIW.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jul 5, 2009 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll even do you one better...
As far as defense at first base is concerned, Davis was better in AA last year than Smoak has been in AA this year.
I’m not saying the reports on Smoak are wrong. The reports on Smoak don’t compare him to Davis.
And like Dirk Diggler said below, I’m not quite the amateur that you might think I am.
by NoNameOnCard on Jul 6, 2009 4:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
Obviously the Rangers thought so much of his defense they demoted him lol
I wasnt calling you an amateur as much as just poitning out that none of us are pro scouts (to my knowledge).
by jsmall404 on Jul 6, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Keep in mind...
That’s not always for lack of skill/talent.
Also, they demoted him because of his awful hitting. The demotion has nothing to do with his defense.
by NoNameOnCard on Jul 6, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea, you have no clue
"The House That Ruth Built, 85 years old, goes out as The House That Hamilton Knocked Down"
by blalock84 on Jul 5, 2009 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Defender
I thought from everything I’ve heard Smoak was the better fielder.
by DJSlam on Jul 4, 2009 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Davis has been really good this year.
The 2009 Texas Rangers offense: sigh...
by Kinslerhomer on Jul 4, 2009 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Best on what I've read compared to what I've seen...
Smoak’s defense is extremely overrated.
by NoNameOnCard on Jul 4, 2009 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No link.
Just an accurate opinion from having watched them both very closely.
by NoNameOnCard on Jul 5, 2009 4:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, Ron Washington has consistently stated that his glove is important on the field and acted upon this notion
despite all of CD’s struggles, he almost never benches him and seems to justify it because of how good his glove has been… Whether thats smart or not, he’s shown alot defensively this year… To further that, there is a huge following of highly devoted followers of Ranger’s baseball that would tell you that Davis has been excellent in the field and from those that have seen Smoak play, all of them would tell you that Davis is a better defender.
"The House That Ruth Built, 85 years old, goes out as The House That Hamilton Knocked Down"
by blalock84 on Jul 5, 2009 4:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I realize Davis has been impressive defensively at 1B this year...
but isnt Smoak supposed to be an even better defender?
by alskor on Jul 4, 2009 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely
Every scout has compared Smoak’s ceiling to Teixeira…both glove and bat. Even if he doens’t meet those expectations, he will still be a perenial gold glove candidate. This is not a knock on Davis; he is a very very good defender, Smoak is just better. I have yet to see a legitimate scouting report say otherwise. The consensus is without a doubt Smoak.
by AL ONLY GM on Jul 4, 2009 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look, you obviously do not know what you're talking about.
Young was not “almost out the door” and it WAS THOUGHT AT ONE TIME that Smoak would be the better defender, but Davis has proved that wrong with stellar play there this year. All of the Rangers’ brass love Davis’ glovework at 1B, and there have been reports from fans and the Rangers’ own people that Davis is the better defender.
You do not know what you’re talking about with this topic, just shut up. The consensus you speak of is a year out of date. Young is not going anywhere and never was despite the breathless media attention to his move to 3B. There is no logjam at 1B/DH. Davis can play 1B and Smoak can play DH. Or they can alternate, who cares, they’re both good at 1B.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Jul 4, 2009 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think one of the only reasons Davis is still playing at the ML level is because he is just that much
better of a defender than anyone on the Ranger’s roster at 1B and also a better defender than Smoak.
"The House That Ruth Built, 85 years old, goes out as The House That Hamilton Knocked Down"
by blalock84 on Jul 5, 2009 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait
So, have you actually heard/seen anything about Smoak being a lesser defender than previously thought? Or is this just b/c Davis has looked so good…?
by alskor on Jul 5, 2009 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Smoak is considered to have the potential to be a GG defender
having the potential and is already there is two different stories. Smoak has the tools and the work ethic to get there, but he has a several things to do until then though.
JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook
by laxtonto on Jul 5, 2009 1:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well sure...
and that’s what Ive always heard. We are talking long range plans here, too…
I was just curious if t ball had heard or read negative reports on Smoak or something… or if he was basing all this on Davis being a better defender than previously thought… because people seemed really adamant about Davis being a better defender in this thread.
by alskor on Jul 5, 2009 1:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
x
or if he was basing all this on Davis being a better defender than previously thought
Yes. I think a lot of people incorrectly assumed he’d be bad at 1B because he was a butcher at 3B. The guy’s been pretty awesome at 1B, and it may be the only thing keeping him up because Christ does he suck at the plate right now.
For the Servais comment that Kinslerhomer referred to, go here.
by LiamP on Jul 5, 2009 2:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Servais doesnt really say Davis will be the better defender though
He says he is “further along.”
I do think that Chris Davis is quite a bit further along defensively. I think it really helped Chris to play third base for the one season he did that. Putting him back at first base, he’s much more agile and has a better feel. That’s one thing with Justin that we’re going to spend a lot of time on in the spring and throughout the season: getting him more comfortable defensively. He’s a capable defensive player, but I still think there’s a lot more in there.
So, again, long term… is there really anything other than three months of very good 1B play that indicates this? By the same regard, everyone seemed to think Davis would hit going into the year – and he hasnt. Guys have defensive slumps and times when they play exceptionally well on defense, too. Its putting an awful lot of emphasis on 3 months to assume the Rangers see Davis at 1B and Smoak 3B long term…
by alskor on Jul 5, 2009 2:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
x
So, again, long term… is there really anything other than three months of very good 1B play that indicates this?
Indicate that Smoak won’t be better than Davis long-term? I have no idea, and I’m not sure anyone could actually answer that question with any legitimate conviction. All I’m saying is, Davis is the better defensive player right now. From the handful of times I’ve had the chance to watch Smoak (NNoC has probably seen him much more than me), he’s been fairly underwhelming. He’s not bad, just not as good as Davis.
By the same regard, everyone seemed to think Davis would hit going into the year – and he hasnt. Guys have defensive slumps and times when they play exceptionally well on defense, too.
I don’t understand what you’re saying here.
Its putting an awful lot of emphasis on 3 months to assume the Rangers see Davis at 1B and Smoak 3B long term…
This has never been the plan. Smoak is nowhere near athletic enough to play 3B. If they’re in the lineup together, one of them is going to be DH’ing.
by LiamP on Jul 5, 2009 2:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually I meant DH
Im agreeing with you – I dont think its clear who will be where long term.
by alskor on Jul 5, 2009 2:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the only thing that is abundantly clear
is that neither are ever moving to 3B. One of them will be at 1B and one will DH if both stay in TX. It’s certainly possible that Smoak will improve enough that he equals Davis’ glove, but the difference will likely not be important enough to matter a lot in any case. 1B is not SS after all, so I think Smoak would have to be very, very good to unseat Davis based on defense.
Of course, Davis is unseating himself by not hitting. I think Smoak will be in Arlington inside of 6 weeks, and Davis may be in the minors inside a week.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Jul 5, 2009 6:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right
that’s the funny part, too – its probably a moot point because Davis isnt hitting at all.
by alskor on Jul 5, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and by this I mean
I cant for the life of me understand why this was so contentious an issue…
by alskor on Jul 5, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And there goes Davis
we’ll see the future as Smoak and Davis split 1B/DH duties in OKC I guess.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Jul 6, 2009 7:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uh
Davis’s UZR rating this year is -.6 and last year it was +.7. Small samples. And that isn’t the be all and end all. I saw him play on tv and in person against the yankees and he looked pretty good. But I just thought i’d toss out those stats. And of course texeira has negative UZR this year. he had big positive uzr last year, and was negative his GG year 2006. Not sure how much I trust UZR yet.
by wobatus on Jul 6, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
UZR is not great for evaluating 1B play
Its based on dividing the field into zones.
Of course, its probably just as good as watching them each for 15 games… its very difficult to evaluate 1B play.
by alskor on Jul 6, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
the major league staff, the GM, and the AA coach.
by Goyogringo on Jul 5, 2009 2:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just out of curosity
What makes you the expert here? Are you in the front office helping with these transactions? Are you part of Rangers Scouting?
First, Young was almost gone. This hopeless media attention was all brought on by himself. The worst thing that happened to the Rangers was Young winning a gold glove which he obviously didn’t deserve. Most ratings having him between the 26th-28th best fielding SS that year.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9064498/Sources:-SS-Young-asks-for-trade-from-Rangers
Second, now cause Davis has some MLB experience and considered a better glove right now, does that excuse a torrid pace for 240 strikeouts??? And for someone who doesn’t know about this topic, you seem to agree with me below that Davis will be getting sent down and Smoak will be brought up, so apparently you know about as much as me.
by AL ONLY GM on Jul 5, 2009 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Young was only "almost gone" in the sense that he
demanded a trade. There was absolutely no market for him out there because of his contract. Once he realized that he settled down and took over 3B. Rangers’ mgmt knew there was no way he’d be able to force his way to another team.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jul 5, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Young was not almost gone
The team was not going to trade him. I’m just frustrated that you choose to go by media reports/blogs that are many months old instead of the passionate fans here that have:
- seen both players in person many times
- read more recent reports from local media and team officials. Washington and the rest of the Rangers people have regularly given glowing reports on Davis’ defense. It is the only thing that has kept him on the ML roster this long.
- and are very up to date with the team’s thinking as reported daily by our beat writers and very, very active blog community at LSB, Newberg, etc. These people talk with team officials daily and we read them daily. I trust Evan Grant and Jamey Newberg to have more detailed and correct info than anyone at Fox Sports.
What in the hell do strikeouts have to do with defense and what does Davis being sent down have to do with my first post? I was responding to your assertion that Davis would be moved to 3B and Young was going to be traded. Davis being sent down to work on his awful strikeout problem has nothing to do with Young (who, again, it not going anywhere) or which of Davis or Smoak the team would likely use at 1B.
I overreacted to your posts, but the fans here responding to you have more up to date info you can trust more than those old links you provided.
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by t ball on Jul 5, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So are you saying...
Young never wanted to get traded and the Rangers weren’t interested in playing Davis at 3B? Cause I think you’re wrong on both fronts. The Rangers would have loved to dump that contract and had the possibility of two talents like Smoak and Davis at 1B and 3B who both had plus power and plus defense would be phenomenal. Just my opinion.
My only point is I think the Rangers predicted this problem. They knew Andrus would be coming up, and if Davis could play 3B, 1B would be open for Smoak. I don’t think 32 games at 3B is a fair body of work to judge. Though Davis probably won’t be a 3B. But if Youkilis can be successful at 3B, I can’t see way Davis couldn’t be who is far more athletic (especially with those man-splits at 1B). Interestingly enough, the Red Sox were looking at a similar problem. It they got Texeiria, Youk was going to 3B, with Poppi DH’ing they were looking to trade Lowell. I saw a lot of similarities with the Rangers organization. Lowell and Young both hold good value that other teams would certainly want. The long and short of it is, I am a huge Davis fan and I just want to see him play. With the hype that surrounds Smoak and Davis’s objective body of work this year, I just don’t know how that plays out.
Sidenote: The links were old cause Young possibly getting traded IS OLD NEWS. Again, just my opinion so don’t get your panties in a bunch.
by AL ONLY GM on Jul 5, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wanting to get traded
is a hell of a lot different than being “almost gone.”
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jul 5, 2009 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
And he said that in anger and then pretty quickly backed off.
Sure the Rangers might like to unload that contract, but they weren’t going to trade him just to do so, knowing they would get basically nothing in return.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Jul 6, 2009 7:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
script
your opinions less like fact and you’ll get fewer people calling you out on it.
by Goyogringo on Jul 6, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Smoak 1B v DH
If Smoak is your long term 1B and you believe eventually he can be a GG 1B, then it dosent make alot of sense to me for him to lose development time defensively by DHing him to start 2010.
I will take all the Ranger’s word for it that Davis has been great at 1B, but I dont know how ALL of the scouting reports on Smaok’s defense go out the window just because Davis has been better at 1B than expected.
by jsmall404 on Jul 5, 2009 11:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That's fine
but I’m really not worried about him forgetting to play 1B if he has to DH for a while, and the team certainly has the option of switching the two guys in and out occasionally. 1B is just not that hard anyway, and the differences we’re passionately arguing above don’t really mean a lot in the runs allowed column. They’re both good, and the team has a pleasant problem. The much bigger issue is getting Davis out of his horrible slump.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Jul 5, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotta send Davis down
Let him break down his swing, maybe try to shorten his stroke and change his mental approach a little – all superficial stuff, really. Hopefully he buys into it and regains his confidence. The way he’s going now… this really has to be mental, IMHO.
by alskor on Jul 5, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Michael Young
Idk that he was “almost gone” but the Rangers were shopping him and it dosent take a rocket scientist to know that if they had found someone to take over his contract, they woulda moved him.
by jsmall404 on Jul 5, 2009 11:33 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Davis was optioned to AAA tonight after the game
by jibs on Jul 6, 2009 12:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
wow
I didn’t see that coming, I thought they were just content to stick with him all season, but certainly that was the right move. I wonder if this accelerates the path for Smoak.
by DJSlam on Jul 6, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who's playing 1B?
That just got me to thinking, who of Smoak and Davis is going to play 1B in AAA?
by DJSlam on Jul 6, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Spit time at 1B and DH most likely.
The 2009 Texas Rangers offense: sigh...
by Kinslerhomer on Jul 6, 2009 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Split time*
The 2009 Texas Rangers offense: sigh...
by Kinslerhomer on Jul 6, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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