Sanchez to SF for...TIM ALDERSON?!?!
by BenjGC on Jul 29, 2009 7:01 PM EDT
Email
PrintDejan Kovacevic with the report on Twitter. If it's true, the Giants must think Timmeh/Cain/MadBum will be enough long-term. Big win for the Pirates, IMHO.
So far this season, Alderson's line between A and AA is:
7-2, 3.65 ERA, 107 H, 66 K, 17 BB in 98 2/3 innings.
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Agreed
I think this is an obvious win for the Pirates, but I think Alderson is overrated. This is still the best trade of Neal’s career though.
+1 jar
I’ve always that Alderson was overrated, but this a steal.
A steal by Neal Huntington? WTF?
Solace: Law says he's a fourth OFer
PaulThomas: I think Keith Law is only a fourth analyst
NH is a very good GM
even though some of his moves mke you scratch your head. He is going to be a billy Beane like GM
Carlos Guillen, the Latino Punto
Goldstein on Alderson
“Alderson continuously overrated throughout his career. No. 3-4 ceiling, always was.”
Are the Giants trying to imitate Bavasi's style of GMing?
I mean really this is ridiculous.
It's a win-win move
Alderson was a fringy player for the Giants. I’d rather they’d have given up Jonathan Sanchez, but what can you say.
Sanchez has an affordable option for next year, so he’s not just a rent-a-vet.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
His option only vests if he has 600 plate appearances.
WordUpThome: I CANNOT BELIVE THAT THIS PRODUCT IS NOT BUTTER
Formerly Gallagher's Watermelons
by CaliforniaJag on Jul 29, 2009 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions
He already has 382...
214 to go and 61 games to do it. Unless he gets hurt badly, I think it’s a pretty safe bet.
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Stephen Schmidt on Jul 29, 2009 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions
what would be the point of doing the trade if they didn't want it to vest
if the idea was to give up alderson for a two month rental that would be pretty bad.
Who cares?
If it doesn’t vest, the Giants exercise it. Sanchez will be a Giant in 2010.
+1
Sanchez at 8 million ( I think that is the number) is not an awful number. He is head and shoulders better than anything else they woudl run out there.
And like discussed alreay, Alderson is not sure thing and some people are acting like he has elite stuff.
+1
I think people are overrating Alderson. Pitching prospects are high risk and it isn’t like he has front line stuff. When you combine that with the fact that Alderson’s K’s have decreased significantly, the Giants added a good secondbaseman with an affordable contract.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Jul 30, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Even if you believe all that...
A pitching prospect of Alderson’s level and reputation should bring more in trade than Freddy Sanchez, even if you think it’s prudent to trade him.
win now for the giants
too bad Sabean is too dumb to get the Pirates to pony up some cash.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 29, 2009 7:25 PM EDT reply actions
My understanding is a couple million dollars are coming the giants way in the deal.
by chri5 on Jul 29, 2009 7:32 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
that was just speculation earlier, but it’s not so. no money.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 29, 2009 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions
With Sanchez gone...
Does Delwyn Young become the everyday 2B for the Pirates?
Career minor league line: .303/.363/.514
Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!
he’s been playing there lately while Sanchez was out with the knee problem.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 29, 2009 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions
very big butcher
the pirates should of signed Gruzidalanek while he was a free agent, would of been a good fill-in for prospects
Carlos Guillen, the Latino Punto
OBP
Giants have a .307 OBP. Garko’s career high in walks is 40. Sanchez’s career high is 32. I hate Sabean.
I get
the Garko deal. He’s a solid bat and the Giants had plenty of pitching depth.
But this? I don’t consider a .334 OBP at second base worth a damn good pitching prospect.
agreed.
But the Garko deal was kind of desperate. Brian Sabean is under pressure for the playoffs this year, he is delivering
Carlos Guillen, the Latino Punto
True
but I mean at the time of the Garko deal there was still Lincecum, Cain, Bummy, Alderson, Sanchez, Zito and plenty of other lesser guys
but now it’s dwindling
by METSMETSMETS on Jul 29, 2009 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
hmm true
thats still good, but they shouldnt be trading so many pitching prospects, but the only position prospects they have aren’t that good outside of Posey and someone else I forgot
Carlos Guillen, the Latino Punto
sorry I forgot
its kind late and I’m up on mountain dew, I forget things
Carlos Guillen, the Latino Punto
Alderson
While he has slipped slightly this year in my mind, he’s only 20 years old, pitching pretty well in AA. Pretty early for KG to declare 3-4 ceiling. And not that a good number 3 is easy to find. And he made BA’s mid-season top 50.
He hasn’t pitched that well for a month though. I wonder if he’s hurt.
His stuff has ALWAYS suggested that he was a mid-end of the rotation starter. It doesn’t matter how young he is if his stuff remains the same, and Alderson has always been a pure control pitcher which is why he was able to have a ton of success early on just painting his average fastball. as he continues to progress I expect him to have more and more difficulty.
pure control pitcher?
His fastball velocity might be average, but he has an excellent curveball with great command. He also has a fascinating delivery that throws a hitter’s timing off. He needs to improve his third pitch, but even if he doesn’t he would have the fastball command, deception and quality out pitch to profile as a very good late inning guy.
I’m thinking there’s an above-average major leaguer in some capacity in there.
Quality out pitch? He clearly hasn’t shown it very often considering he has just 66 strikeouts in nearly 100 innings pitched this season…
so
Are you trying to say that he does not have a good curveball, then? That’s at odds with the video link I posted, where his curveball looks filthy.
Maybe he doesn’t throw it in two-strike counts as often as you’d like (although I have no data on this), but that really doesn’t mean anything other than empty stat-building that means nothing for his long-term future. H needs to be able to throw his other pitches in those counts as well, and it may be that he’s working on that this year.
I’m not really sure what to make of Kevin Goldstein’s opinion here. He posted earlier that Alderson has been consistently overrated throughout his pro career . . .even though he himself rated Alderson as a 4 star prospect, and the 60th best prospect in the game. It’s a pretty glaring discrepancy and one that I can only assume he’ll address in short order.
last I checked
there were other ways to get outs besides strikeouts. A 20 year old in AA holding his own with a FIP of around 3.5 is a quality prospect. There’s certainly no room for him to improve in the next 2-3 years, right?
by Looney4baseball on Jul 29, 2009 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions
If you are getting minor leaguers out through means other than strikeouts,
it is a very bad omen for your ability to get major leaguers out any way at all.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
that's a canard
Andy Pettitte in AA 6.2, AAA 5.7
David Cone AA 5.5
Mark Buehrle 5.2
Roy Halladay minor league avg 5.9
Tim Alderson has averaged 7.3 strikeouts a game in the minors. Jair Jurrjens averaged 7.2.
Like those guys mostly, Alderson is young for his level. I wouldn’t toss him into some “not enough stuff” pile just because he has averaged 5.7 Ks per 9 over 70 innings at age 20 in AA. With good control. And enough stuff to be a number 3, even per Goldstein, and decent number 3s aren’t free. Seems like the Mets could use a number 3, or even a 2.
And I know I am picking out the success stories, but they weren’t that hard to find. I didn’t bother with the Joel Pineiro, Jason Marquis (low rates at upper levels), John Lannan types, or the big time groundballers like Lowe.
Admittedly, it would bode well if he could up the rate. And he seems ragged or hurt: his k rate in May at AA, 21 in 19 innings. 16 in 30 in June. 9 in 23 in July.
by wobatus on Jul 30, 2009 7:47 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
as for the trade
it is obviously more win now (and maybe next year). That’s up to the observer as to what is more important. I am just saying Alderson seems promising, if only because even decent mid-level starters aren’t that easy to develop, and you need a few prospects in the hope even one of them turns out to fill that bill, and if his ceiling is a 3, I’d say he is a pretty good bet to reach that ceiling.
Anecdotes mean nothing
Average performance means everything.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
yes
and his average performance is 7.3 k/9 in the minors at 20.
It is only his last 5 starts that have dragged him down. My belief, coupled with several people claiming his velocity is down, is he is hurt, dead arm, etc., or has some issue He struck out 10 in his AA debut. His last 28 innings only 9 strikeouts.
Yes, that last 28 counts against his average, but it is out of line with his performance until about a month or so ago.
I do think he may have been overrated, but I still say he isn’t chopped liver.
more
Minor League ks/9
Halladay 5.9
Buehrle 6.6
Zach Duke 7.1
Joel Pineiro 7.5
Aaron Cook 6.1
John Lannan 6.3
Gavin Floyd 7.1
Derek Lowe 5.5
Nick Blackburn 5.6
Ricky Romero 7.0
Chris Volstad 6.2
John Lackey 7.1
Tim Alderson 7.3. After the worst 5 start stretch of his very young career for Ks.
Yes, he doesn’t have the velocity of some of those guys. He doesn’t get ground balls like some of them. He isn’t lefty like some of them. But that is 13 or so of guys who are probably all among the top 60-75 starters in baseball, at least results wise, this year.
He doesn’t have to beat the average. As long as people can succeed doing it, he has a shot. It isn’t like he is striking out sub 5 for his acreer. He has had a slight blip, almost all of it in the last month. And again, he k’s 10 in his AA debut at 20.
Gavin Floyd is a righty, his signature was a curve, and when he debuted at 22 in Philadelphia, his fastball averaged 88.
Alderson is much more plouished it seems, better command. And you can say you don’t like Floyd, but certainly he has pitched pretty well this year, and his results if not his peripherals were good last year.
Blackburn is another guy folks may not like, and he took much longer to move through the miinors than Alderson. But good results this year. maybe he is lucky. But 2 years of a mid-rotation innings eater has value. And i think Alderson may be better than that.
I don’t necessarily disagree that the trade wasn’t bad gor the Giants. Just that simply saying sub-6 k/9 at AA at age 20 doesn’t spell doom. Especially when he has shown he has K’d guys at AA. I continue to wonder if something is wrong physically or emchanically.
You appear to have misunderstood what I'm saying
or maybe just taken it as another chance to repeat the pointless exercise of cherrypicking the major leaguers with the lowest minor league K/9 figures.
The average pitcher with low Ks is worse than the average pitcher with high Ks. Period. Take two pitchers with the exact same statline except that one has more Ks than the other, and the one with more Ks is more likely, by some amount which correlates to the difference in strikeout ability, to succeed in MLB.
No one is saying that Tim Alderson cannot succeed in MLB. The trade would be laughably stupid for Pittsburgh if that was the case. No one has called him “chopped liver,” said he is “doomed,” or “tossed him into a not-enough-stuff pile.” That straw man can be put back in the cornfield, thanks.
What’s really ironic is that I LIKE control pitchers. More than most, I’d say. I was screaming my head off for Brett Anderson, Jeremy Hellickson, and James Simmons (still not sure what’s eating him this year) on last year’s Community List. I think Kevin Slowey is the bee’s knees. Dan Haren is my favorite pitcher. The list goes on.
I’m just calling a spade a spade here. And, FWIW, control pitchers with 89 MPH fastballs who strike out minor leaguers are still a lot more likely to succeed than control pitchers with 89 MPH fastballs who don’t strike out minor leaguers.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
yeah
I knew it. Just went on with the pointless exercise of pointing out lotsa currently succesful pitchers who succeed despite lowish k rates in the minors.
Yes, all things being equal, one would prefer high k rates, and it is a better harbinger of success.
Apologies for the straw men (not just you but the general tone of some of the anti-Aldresons). However, you did mention “bad omen.” I think, though, that given his rate has dropped precipitously over a month or so, from 7.5 to sub-3, that something is wrong, or very small sample size hell. Just to focus on fact he is 5.8 or whatever it is now in AA seems to sweep under the rug some obvious issue here. If it is just a velocity drop, injury, what have you, it does not suggest permanence. He is 20. That is way below his rate for 1 1/2 seasons at A+ and AA. And his career rate to date is still 7.3, whatever the current issue is.
I just think people are exagerrating the importance of 1-2 bad months for a 20 year old. Albeit, yes, his lowish velocity means he gets little slack. Not all that many soft-tossing succesful righties.
I think that in general too much weight was put on his numbers
especially at lower levels. Too little was made of his sub par fastball and so-so stuff (other than very good curve). My opinion on him certainly hasnt changed in the last month or so based on him falling off a bit.
He’s a good prospect. He was just overrated. The Community Prospect List Ranking was nuts.
Sub-par?
I’ve never seen anything that rated his fastball as below-average.
Oh yeah
the community poll. He WAS overrated there, and I think that started some of the ballot stuffing complaints, although perhaps it was earlier.
I guess he was overrated before and now I think he is being underrated. He’s in double A now, which is the big jump, and even with his velo down he is pitching ok, albeit with his K rate slumping. I continue to think the falloff from his first few starts in AA suggests a mechanical issue or injury.
BA’s mid-season ranking still had him in top 50, and that was just earlier in July, so some people still like him.
Not sure if he’s top 50 to me now. Lots of guys with much better stuff like Matt Moore, Jhenrry Mejia, etc. have lapped him this year. Still top 100, though.
He's probably top 50 for me
but just barely. I really think he’s just a mix between Michael Bowden and Jeremy Hellickson. Pretty good prospect. Not deserving of this hype. Solid mid rotation strike thrower. Will get hit hard occasionally and look like a stud other days. Doesnt beat himself and knows how to pitch. I love pitchers like that. There just isnt much upside above that here. He doent throw hard and more advanced hitters could end up feasting on his fastball and laying off his curveball.
Wow
Looking at his numbers, Michael Bowden is really mediocre. Huge flyball rate, average command and low K rate? Ugh.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
I didnt know that
the only way to get major leaguers out was by strikeout. Thouse groundball outs in AA must turn into hits and the flyball outs must turn into homers in the majors. Like I said, he’s 20 and has no room for improvement, especially for a AA pitcher with a respectable FIP. Sarcasm aside, it will be interesting to see how the Pirates ruin him like they pretty much have all their other pitching prospects in recent years.
by Looney4baseball on Jul 30, 2009 8:25 AM EDT up reply actions
The point isn't that you can get all your outs by strikeout,
it’s that you basically won’t get any more non-strikeout outs than anyone else will, so if you want to be good, you had better figure out how to strike hitters out.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
And he's got no room for improvement,
being 20 in AA? His FIP is better in AA than A+, so he’s pitching better even though his last 4 outings haven’t been that good and his velocity is reportedly down. If he develops into a pitcher that can K 7 per 9 innings in the majors, he’s likely going to be a very good pitcher.
by Looney4baseball on Jul 30, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Those guys that ruined arms....
Aren’t in the organization anymore. The Pirates pretty much cleaned house last year
we'll see...
Perhaps they will do better than the last group…perhaps not.
by Looney4baseball on Jul 30, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
God forbid the Giants make a deal to help them get to the playoffs
When they’re already two aces deep at the major league level with another one waiting in the wings.
Still you have to think they could have traded Alderson for a better piece...
than a decent defensive 2B who’s offensive value is solely wrapped in batting average. If his BABIP slips then he’s useless since he has no secondary offensive skills.
well put
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Stephen Schmidt on Jul 29, 2009 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Say what you will about BABIP
But he’s provided above average production from second base three out of the last four years. Last year was awful, but if you’re getting 50 xbh from your second baseman with a .290+ average and low strikeouts, I think you’re doing pretty well. To give him the defensive second baseman label is to discount his track record of strong offensive production from his position, IMO.
Sanchez
The fact that last year was so bad shows you how volatile players are when BA is their one strong skill.
Even if you think his .300 BA is sustainable for the upcoming years he doesn’t walk enough to really get full use of it since all he has is a career .336 OBP. Plus there’s the fact that he has very little secondary value like I mentioned before… 36 career HR, 10 career SB. Yes, he can still hit a few doubles which helps his value immensely, so I’ll give him that. However one of the strengths you mentioned (low K’s) has been a bit problematic this year in comparison to previous years as he already has 60 Ks on the season.
Plus he’s 31. While that’s not ancient by any means his talent level is such that any slight decrease in bat speed could make him completely useless offensively. This wouldn’t be the case if he could hit homeruns, steal bases, or just take a walk, but unfortunately he doesn’t.
Sanchez
“The fact that last year was so bad shows you how volatile players are when BA is their one strong skill.”
Sanchez played through a shoulder injury for almost all of last season, and it was pretty clear from watching him that he struggled because of it. He’s just one of those guys who puts enough balls in play to sustain an above average BA (through an above average BAPIP).
A few doubles?
What would qualify as more than a few?
And his strikeout rate is still far from problematic, even if he does maintain at his current level (way above his career norm).
Do you realize who the Giants have been running out at second base this season?
Upgrading from the utter garbage they’ve been playing to just league-average would be worth a win or so over the second half of the season (and 3-ish next year, since there’s nothing in the farm system). If Sanchez is even marginally above average, so much the better.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
How come
the Giants managed to get the worst player in the major deals (so far I’m counting Garko, Sanchez, Lee, not Snell/Wilson although they are better IMO) but had to give up the most heralded prospect? it baffles me, that just when I thought we made a good call (despite my man-crush on Scott Barnes) we have to go and mess it up this badly. very very poor decision Mr. Sabean.
Adoptive parent of Kyle Nicholson
Supply and demand
They had to outbid teams for Sanchez’s services. Was there a better 2B available, probably not, so he was a valuable commodity. He also seems willing to sign and extension that pays him less than his option will next year. I know the Twins really wanted this guy and now they are going to get stuck with either Marco f’n Scutaro, Orlando Cabrera or god forbid David Ekstein. Be thankful you got Sanchez.
Who did they outbid?
Were teams knocking down the door for Sanchez?
Just a bad trade. And Ive never even liked Alderson. Im just glad I wont have to hear people gush about him on here anymore b/c we arent loaded up with homer Pittsburgh fans.
4:52pm: Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports hear that the Pirates are talking to the Giants, Twins and at least one other team about Sanchez, but don’t have a deal in place.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/
I guarantee the Twins were making a pretty solid offer for this guy. They would have extended him immediately and plugged Sanchez in the 2 hole in front of Mauer and Morneau for the next 3-4 years. What got the Giants Sanchez was dealing them ONE good prospect instead of 3 mediocre prospects.
"Homer" Pittsburgh fans...
…are a pretty dumb lot. But previously alienated Pittsburgh fans like myself love what’s gone down with Huntington over the past year. He’s unapologetically cleaned house and refused to re-sign useless pieces like Wilson and Sanchez just for sentimental reasons.
In fact, most of the guys he’s traded could be classified as “homers,” as half the clubhouse complained when he traded McLouth and LaRoche. But who’s left to complain after today? Almost exclusively young guys who are eager to prove themselves and arent’ accustomed to the culture of losing. Wilson and Sanchez said they WANTED to be lifelong Pirates. How insane is that?
After 17 straight losing seasons, you need to rid your organization of guys who are comfortable with the status quo, even if they believe they can be part of the solution, as elite athletes are wont to do.
So, as a Pittsburgh fan, I’m not about to gush about Alderson specifically. But the chance that he turns into a mid-rotation guy sometime in the next six years is worth a lot more than what the previous regime would have re-signed Freddy and Jack for just because they wanted to keep a couple fan favorites around.
If you read it carefully...
Im actually not talking about Pittsburgh fans at all.
Also, Im very much a fan of what Huntington has been doing there.
Scutaro
is having a better year than Sanchez offensively.
by Looney4baseball on Jul 29, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
but would you
take him over Sanchez if you had the choice. And for the next 3 years, would you put your money in that Scutaro can repeat his performance at 34 35 36. I’d put my money on Sanchez being the better player.
Why would you sign either for the next 3 years?
Neither are worth signing for 3 years. Sanchez will be 32-34 in the next 3 years, not exactly a youngster either in baseball years. Scutaro also only makes 1.5 mil this year as opposed to Sanchez’s 8 mil. So cost, performance and age factored together, IMO Scutaro is no bigger risk than Sanchez. Sanchez is no big acquisition.
by Looney4baseball on Jul 30, 2009 8:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Adam Kennedy (OPS 784) probably could have been had for much much less.
Kennedy for just this year (also probably would sign a cheap extension) and Alderson still in the organization for next year seems like a much better plan . Or you could have got Kennedy and another piece- maybe a backup catcher, if you really WANTED to get rid of Alderson.
"Gratuitous gesticulating together sounds even better"
There's no reason to believe that Adam Kennedy is anywhere near as good as Sanchez,
or for that matter, anywhere near as good as he’s played this year. A fluky couple of months does not make him a good player.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
I agree with that, Kennedy's having a career type fluky year, but Sanchez's OPS last year was 669 so they both could not be good players
I take my chances Kennedy keeps up the hot streak to put up similar numbers as Sanchez the rest of the year and still have Alderson. Sanchez is going to have to outperform Kennedy by a large margin in my book to make giving up a 20 year old MLB top 50 prospect worthwhile.
The main point is you try to keep Alderson somehow, not that Kennedy is better than Sanchez. Alderson would be the #1-#2 prospect on half the major league teams and if you are going to trade him you should do alot better than Sanchez.
"Gratuitous gesticulating together sounds even better"
Is Kennedy even on the block?
I find it weird that the A’s haven’t dealt him, given his league-minimum contract (i.e. even teams with maxed-out payrolls can acquire him).
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Great deal for the Pirates
it was either keep sanchez and maybe get a 2nd round pick or pick up a good pitching prospect. Win for the Pirates
Carlos Guillen, the Latino Punto
GM Sabean
He gets an “A” for effort because he definitely is trying to improve the team by addressing his weaknesses (1B & 2B). Unfortunately for Giants fans, he gets a “C” for results.
Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!
I'd rather have that problem than
this:
http://www.twinkietown.com/2009/7/27/964825/twins-all-stars-sounding-off
Torii Hunter waited for them to pull a deal, so did Santana. Looks like these guys are figuring out what those guys dealt with.
its already happened
2B Mark Grudzilanek ….
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Jul 31, 2009 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Sure
This team has fantastic pitching. I would say he definitely should have done more in the offseason. Ishikawa, Schierholtz… bad ideas. Very little chance they were going to work out. I saw many of you Giants fans talk yourself into these guys. Hell, he hit on Sandoval, but that wasnt a sure thing by any means.
Petit ?
While it´s obviously a great haul for the Pirates, Alderson´s rise through the Giants system somewhat reminds me of Yusmeiro Petit´s rise through the Mets system. A finesse RH with good control & deception. Alderson´s fastball may be a tad better, but I guess this was probably the Giants´ evaluation of him.
Sanchez helps their woeful offense but this is a steep price nonetheless.
they're a bit different
Petit was a bit more well-rounded than Alderson at this point, and struck out many more guys (although given the difference in flyball rate between Petit in AA and Alderson this year, perhaps Petit’s penchant for pitching up in the zone contributed to that). Alderson’s fastball grades out better than Petit’s, and Petit didn’t have a single pitch that graded anywhere near Alderson’s curve.
Giants know thier prospects best
Guess this mean general opinon on Alderson may have been a bit high.
People used to use that logic about the Braves
John Schuerholz almost never regretted dealing away a prospect, so clearly the Teixeira deal couldn’t have been bad. You can’t totally judge a deal based on the assumption that a GM knows something you don’t. If Alderson doesn’t pan out, this was still a bad use of resources, because Alderson’s perceived value and prospect level should add up to more than Freddy Sanchez.
Schuerholz gave up on Jason Schmidt
And though he’s hurt now, he was obviously a star for several years. Generally “knowing” your prospects doesn’t really mean anything for any one deal you make.
WordUpThome: I CANNOT BELIVE THAT THIS PRODUCT IS NOT BUTTER
Formerly Gallagher's Watermelons
by CaliforniaJag on Jul 30, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Giants Win!
I love this deal for the Giants. You get a one win upgrade the rest of the way at time when wins are highly leveraged. Then you get a three win player next year at a big discount on a short term deal. For that you give up a pretty good, but not great, pitching prospect. This deal is a classic win/win.
Where Sabean and the Giants will mess this up is by extending Sanchez. There is no need to do that at all.
Yes, that's the problem with an incompetent GM like Sabean
Even when he makes an individually decent move like this one, you wonder how he will foul it up somehow…
Honestly, if the choice is “Playoffs = extension, no playoffs = fired,” I hope the Giants miss the playoffs.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Never got my 2 cents in
so what the heck. Nothing new here, in all likelihood.
Good trade for Pitt, not a bad trade for SF. Was Alderson a bit overhyped and overrated? I usually try to separate it most of the times, but in this case, I think they can be combined for Tim A. with the answer being yes. That said, top arms, the truly elite minor league arms, those guys aren’t getting shipped off anymore (for the most part). Alderson’s in that next rung, a guy who shows middle of the rotation potential, with a chance for a bit more growth. In that respect, the value is very good for Pittsburgh.
You have to factor in that, at some point, teams have to try and win. A system is only good if it fits the organization and it helps the organization. There’s a shot here, and I can’t fault the gamble, when Alderson does have question marks. It does make you pause and scratch your head a bit, but I respect the gamble (not saying I like trade, just respecting the gamble). In saying that, I wonder if Sanchez’s offense slips a bit, making this deal look worse in hindsight.
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