Jason Knapp = Roy Halladay Clone?
by Dewey Finn on Jul 29, 2009 3:54 PM EDT
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PrintYa, I know it sounds crazy. However, reportedly one scout described Jason Knapp as a 'Roy Halladay clone' and that his upside was higher than Kyle Drabek's. I don't think I or Bravesin07 have made such a lofty comparison before. OK, maybe we have. Right now, Knapp is on the DL with what is being called shoulder fatigue or shoulder stiffness. For the Indians to center the trade talks for Lee around Knapp, it leads me to beleive that the injury is not serious. I don't know if he is expected back anytime soon though. Probably best to shut him down, only 18 yrs old.
So anyways, who is Jason Knapp and why was he the 'centerpiece' in the trade for Cliff Lee? Here are some #s...
Jason Knapp - D.O.B. Aug 31, 1990 - 6'5", 215 lbs
2008 (Gulf Coast League)
31 IP, 38 K, 12 BB, 2.61 ERA, 1.22 WHIP, FIP 2.91, BABIP .333, K% 29.2, BB% 9.2, GB% 40
2009 (South Atlantic League)
85.1 IP, 111 K, 39 BB, 4.01 ERA, 1.19 WHIP, FIP 3.08, BABIP .316, K% 30.9, BB% 10.9%, GB% 43
Stuff wise, I've read that Knapp has a mid to high 90s fastball with a solid but inconsistent breaking ball. I would appreciate it if someone else can provide more insight into the pitches he throws. Based on what I can see, there is a lot to like here. He's very young, very big, and has excellent ratios. Roy Halladay clone? Way too early to say.
What are your thoughts on Jason Knapp and his long-term potential?
By the way, Baseball America had Jason Knapp in their mid-season Top 50.
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Very high ceiling pitcher....
…Really the only high ceiling prospect the Indians received for Lee. As long as he stays away from injuries, and continues to develop his secondary stuff, he could be a front line starter someday.
It appears so although...
I have heard an unsubstantiated rumor that he was hidden on the DL so as not to be part of a for Halladay, there by boosting his value in the Indians eyes.
I listened to one of his starts
When he was dominating earlier this year. According to the announcer, his FB was 91-92 all night but did touch 97 once (in a big situation). When he got his curve over, it was likely to be a called strike(out) but he definitely struggled to get it over. If I remember correctly, he only threw a handful for strikes during the night.
I think he is a typical high ceiling arm with underdeveloped secondary stuff. I think he has overpowered low-a hitters with his FB but I don’t think he will be able to overpower MLB hitters with it. Like most pitchers in his situation, whether he becomes an ace will be the development of the secondary stuff…
fun arm
He’s a long way from being Halladay-esque . . .Halladay is not only really good and a complete pitcher, but one of the two most durable pitchers in baseball. Knapp’s quite the project still IMO, despite the gaudy numbers.
A+ next year will tell a lot about him . . .it’s not a huge difference from Low A for young prospects with developing skills, but players who are a bit more raw will show some cracks in the foundation.
Really love Knapp
not a lot not to like.
Now, that out of the way, I think that comp is beyond silly. When I think Roy Halladay, i think groundball machine and durable. While there is no way to know if Knapp will be durable, he is anything but a GB machine.
he’s a career 38% GB pitcher. That said, he does not give up many HR, I believe only 4 in 116 IP, so he’s either getting very lucky there, or he’s very very difficult to hit.
Also, according to minorleaguesplits, the babip numbers above are wrong. He has a .372 career babip (also, pretty odd, right?)
Clearly high ceiling, really looking forward to seeing how he develops. I think this is a really great trade for both teams.
knapp and hrs
“That said, he does not give up many HR, I believe only 4 in 116 IP, so he’s either getting very lucky there, or he’s very very difficult to hit.”
. . .or it could just be that he’s a guy with good stuff pitching against guys who don’t have the experience and/or the physical prowess needed to make him pay?
Yup.
He’s got the frame and the velocity to dream on, but it’ll all come down to his secondary pitches and durability (Keith Law doesn’t particularly love his mechanics, for what it’s worth). At the very least, though, he looks like an odds on bet to be a back-end bullpen guy at some point.
Barnes, Carrasco, Knapp
Pretty solid injection of pitching into the Indians’ farm system.
Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!
Not to mention Perez and Todd
Both have a legitimate chance to become dominant late inning relievers.
by CapgrasDelusion on Jul 30, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Complete BS
$10 says this “Halladay-clone” shit came out because the Phillies were just engaged in a week-long+ Halladay-fest.
Knapp is a 19-year old pitcher who throws hard. Halladay clone? He’s not even posting a 1:1 groundball-flyball ratio (he’s been a slight flyball pitcher both this year and last year) whereas Halladay is a sinker/groundball pitcher.
Knapp has great upside, but this “scout” statement is purely laughable. Knapp has done nothing to suggest he is even remotely like Halladay.
Agreed.
Though I’d point out that equating just about any prospect with the best pitcher in baseball is a laughable comparison. It’s no reflection on Knapp as a prospect, it’s just sort of like comparing Jesus Montero to Albert Pujols — sure, Montero’s a damned good hitter, but it’s still a ridiculous comparison.
Thank God...
somebody has some sense here.
Not even close to Halladay, one of the smartest and mature pitchers in the game.
by BigBadBossman on Aug 6, 2009 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
hey douchebag
I wasn’t comparing Knapp to Halladay. I’m merely bringing attention to a comment I read earlier on Foxsports and Rotoworld. Furthermore, I wanted to see what the community thought of Knapp, his performance thus far, and future outlook.
And you have a problem with this post, why? Simply because Dewey Finn created it? You’re pathetic.
Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!
by Dewey Finn on Jul 29, 2009 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Uh
You weren’t comparing Knapp to Halladay, but the title of the thread is “Jason Knapp = Roy Halladay clone?”
You’re right, how could anybody think that?
Solace: Law says he's a fourth OFer
PaulThomas: I think Keith Law is only a fourth analyst
Because reading in context....
… if fundamental.
by Lunkwill Fook on Jul 29, 2009 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions
A scout was quoted as saying this
Not Dewey Finn.
That scout is indeed, out of his effing mind, though.
Readng in context is indeed fundamental. Not only does Dewey mention a scout has been quoted as saying this but he also titled it "Jason Knapp = Roy Halladay clone?"
Note the QUESTION MARK…
I think a better title for this thread may have been
“Jason Knapp is a Roy Halladay clone”?
I think because Dewey formated the title in a similar fashion to his resont posts people jumped to conclusions. Worse things have happened.
Possibly
But I think hero66’s response was still way unjustified.
by Lunkwill Fook on Jul 29, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
i guess people need to read Question Marks...
Jesus, some of you should go back to Elementary School Grammar Class.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Jul 31, 2009 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions
lol- strait to douchbag and a nice pathetic at the end
“ridiculous” was a pretty mild and short criticism compared to others I’ve seen about your stuff. You do seem to have quite a following of haters that go after you Dewey and I can see it getting tiresome. I think they do it as much for your reaction as anything pro/con about your posts. I for one am more interested/entertained by both those that go after you, and your reactions to them, than the post themselves half the time. Don’t back down.
"Gratuitous gesticulating together sounds even better"
Because every one of your posts is the same, you know that it will go straight to the top of the recs even though you put little to no effort into any of them, and you go out of your way to ensure this by having some controversial thread title
That sounds simple enough, but since I’ve explained it to you before and you always fail to understand, maybe it’s not.
by RedSoxFaithful on Jul 30, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I still don't understand your problem
FYI, I try to stir up conversation on topics that I find interesting. Correct me if I am wrong, but discussion is usually encouraged on a message board. Rather than contribute, you complain.
Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!
Question
What exactly did you find ‘ridiculous’ about this post?
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Jul 29, 2009 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions
uh
Ya, I know it sounds crazy. However, reportedly one scout described Jason Knapp as a ‘Roy Halladay clone’ and that his upside was higher than Kyle Drabek’s.
Did you both fail to read that part?!?
Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!
That scout was probably the Indians scout
Whom were drunk as well as the drunk Gm for pulling off an awful deal
racist
400+ years of oppression, and you’d be drinking too. No need to rub it into their faces.
by gogotabata on Jul 30, 2009 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I love Knapp
I have been on his bandwagon since reading a scouting report on BA last year, but last year at this time I had guys like Edwin Quirarte and Brett Hunter(ouch) ahead of him. He has really boosted his stock this year but a Halladay comparison is off base. I projected Knapp to be a back of the bullpen arm. He may be able to make it as a starter and I would be glad to see that but for now the scout should call him the next Homer Bailey before he throws the Halladay comp out there.
http://milbprospects.blogspot.com/
You Know
Every time somebody rec’s one of Dewey’s posts, baby Jesus cries.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Jul 30, 2009 2:34 AM EDT reply actions
From Baseball America yesterday...
Knapp sits 94-96 mph with his fastball, and has touched 98. He was was young for his class and won’t turn 19 until the end of August.
Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!
So he's a lesser Zumaya or something?
except Zumaya actually had a feel for some of his secondary stuff coming out of HS
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
GET THAT VORP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
+1
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i don't think
the people who constantly talk about inverted v mechanics have ever thrown a baseball more than a catch in their back yard with the father once when they were nine.
by richieabernathy on Jul 31, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok
So forget the inverted W crowd… does that arm action concern you at all? Is this something you would prefer in a pitcher?
you realize
this is just a photograph, right? I cannot gauge the arm action in a still photo. I have personally never seen Jason Knapp throw in person. As far as pitching mechanics are concerned, I prefer loose arm actions, repeatable deliveries, balance, stability, and of course, the athleticism to acheive those components to the delivery.
by richieabernathy on Jul 31, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Elbow above the shoulder
In general a bad thing. Can be mitigated by athleticism and being good at repeating your delivery.
Fair statement?
I realize its just one still photo, but do you have a positive or negative reaction to it? Mine is slightly negative. He’s really loaded up there and it looks like an unnecessary complication is his delivery (thus making it harder to repeat).
I also see a glove arm not tucked in and a shoulder that appears to be coming open early (though obviously very hard to tell). Not talking predictive value or injuries here… just saying that, from the little that one can see here, these look like less than ideal mechanics.
and it really bothers me
that all the anti-inverted W stuff has now basically made lots of people toss out any discussion of mechanics at all.
exactly
it’s not an exact science, but there are thing that are obviously more preferable to others.
and look at swing mechanics
simpler yes – admittedly – but no one hesitates to discuss those. a hitch in your swing? Bad thing. Indeed, guys have succeeded with it – but they are the exception and not the rule. We dont have a body of scientific work or years of biomechanical study confirming this as people demand of the inverted W (though it would be nice). Yet, no one would for a second hesitate to criticize a guy for it even though its basically based on conventional knowledge rather than scientific study.
The problem arises b/c of the degree of certainty. People ran with the inverted W and used it as a 100% predictor of surgery. That was obviously a flawed interpretation and created a strong backlash. Its but one factor among many, but I do lend it some credence as a slightly negative factor based on the information I do have. Not even close to determinative and behind lots of other factors… some most would consider minor factors, like personality type perhaps.
Many baseball people for years have disliked the Inverted W delivery. They just didnt call it that. Its not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but a kid who scap loads a lot and raises his elbow too high gets a mark next to those in the negatives tally in my book.
and why "inverted w"
its an “m” people….grrr
"Sometimes Joe (morgan) doesn't like facts to get in the way of his opinions."- billy beane
"That was a great pick...if this was 2002" Me, to guy who selected Barry Zito in a fantasy draft
www.27ClubPeak.blogspot.com
by harendaman365 on Jul 31, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd agree
that it’s not the gospel. but it’s something to be aware of no?
+1
Yeah, Ive stopped caring at all about the W/M thing. I really think repeating your motion is much more important. Could it be a factor? sure, but it’s one of many.
bob milacki
a few weeks ago i had the chance to speak to bob milacki, lakewood’s pitching coach, and he gushed over knapp, saying he had the potential to not only become an ace, but to be a 200-inning workhorse.
There are plenty of young pitchers
Who have better stuff then Halladay, but there is only one Roy Halladay
Don't believe the lies Bill!!!! look at the sparkly ERA!!! Sparkly, Sparkly!!! - McCovey Chronicles
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