Hypothetical (Jays top 30) if they deal Halladay
by Alfamale on Jul 23, 2009 4:25 PM EDT
53 comments
so lets say the Jays trade Doc to the Phillies for the rumoured package of:
Kyle Drabek
Michael Taylor
Carlos Carrasco
Jason Donald
lets also take for granted that all of this years draftees sign their minor league contracts. what would our TOP 30 PLAYERS NOT CURRENTLY IN THE MAJORS look like after that? in my opinion, we'd be top 3 in the league, and it would look something like this:
1. Travis Snider
2. Kyle Drabek
3. Michael Taylor
4. JP Arencibia
5. Carlos Carrasco
6. Chad Jenkins
7. James Paxton
8. David Cooper
9. Brad Mills
10.. Moises Sierra
11. Brian Dopirak
12. John Tolisano
13. Tim Collins
14. Jason Donald
15. Danny Farquhar
16. Justin Jackson
17. Kevin Ahrens
18. Jake Marisnick
19. Jake Barrett
20. Eric Thames
21. Tyler Pastornicky
22. Darin Mastroianni
23. Balbino Fuenmayor
24. Kenny Wilson
25. Johermyn Chavez
26. Brad Emaus
27. Eric Eiland
28. Carlos Perez
29. Gustavo Pierre
30. Trystan Magnuson
Others Notables: Markus Brisker, Santiago Nessy, Michael Crouse, Gari Pena, Ryan Schimpf, Ryan Goins, KC Hobson, Brian Jeroloman, Alan Farina, Egan Smith, Henderson Alvarez, Joel Carreno, Mike McDade, Bobby Bell, Adam Loewen, Luis Perez, Kenny Rodriguez, Scott Campbell. Fabio Castro.
this could even be the best minor league system in baseball.
what number would YOU put this group?
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Phillies won't...
give up that much in a deal for Halliday. maybe Drabek, Taylor, Donald, and a low level prospect, but they won’t include Carrasco too.
Unless they get a Haren-like haul
They shouldnt trade him at all
Solace: Law says he's a fourth OFer
PaulThomas: I think Keith Law is only a fourth analyst
Why?
I don’t think Buster Olney’s the best sportswriter in the world, but he’s been dead on from the very beginning of this Halladay thing in one regard: his value will only go down from here on out. Halladay wants to test the free agent market after next year, and the Blue Jays aren’t making the playoffs this year or next, so Ricciardi should extract maximum value for Halladay now.
Honestly though — and not being a smartass at all — can someone make an argument as to why it makes sense for the Jays to hold onto him?
I agree with you
but I’ll take the devil’s advocate view of “Why not?”. The talent on the Jays has never been questioned – what if they put it together next year and Wells/Rios are consistent offensive forces, they get consistent end of the pen work, and their young starters fill out the rotation nicely. Suddenly .. that’s a team that can compete. The sad thing for the Blue Jays all these years with this current core has been that, if they’d be in another division, they probably compete for division titles on a more regular basis.
In saying all that, my personal opinion is that Ricciardi will pull the trigger if he gets a trade he likes. It may not be a knock your socks off, Danny Haren type deal. I think a “good” deal, whatever JP defines as one, and he pulls the trigger if he can’t get that elite deal.
You don't settle here
This is probably a top 5 pitchers in baseball. You don’t settle for a deal when you don’t have to.
Solace: Law says he's a fourth OFer
PaulThomas: I think Keith Law is only a fourth analyst
Probably?
You could make a strong argument that Halladay is the best pitcher in baseball when you factor in his durability, the division he pitches in, and how deep he goes into games.
eric thames
right you are.
anyone care to rank this group, even if you don’t believe this is a likely deal..
Travis Snider isn't prospect-eligible.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Snider
sure he is. i could have also added Brett Cecil, and Marc Rzepcynzski, who would have likely can in as #4 and #6 respectively. Also, Ricky Romero could be in there, and is definitely top 10, and possibly top 5.
Not eligible
Snider has more than 130 MLB ab’s. Cecil has more than 50 IP in MLB. Neither is still eligible for rookie/prospect status after this season.
hefty
thats a lot the phillies are giving up there.
snider
oh well about the specifics, fact is the guy is 21. he’s still a prospect to me.
Felix Hernandez
still the number prospect for the Mariners
if only
I’d remember the dang “one” — too eager to crack a joke, as always
Not top 3
As a Jays fan, I think that would be severely overrating them. Drabek and Taylor are the only locks to be top 100 guys (though Carrasco probably has a shot and is almost certainly a better prospect than Arencibia at this point). There is definitely depth to this group but not the enough of the top level prospects necessary to place near the top of the organizational rankings. Also, I think Moises Sierra is underrated on that list and could have a very outside chance of being a top 100 guy after this season. I’d probably have him fourth behind Drabek, Taylor, and Carrasco. I also think Eric Thames and Tyler Pastornicky are underrated on this list as well.
+1
Excellent response. I’m not sure that’s a top 3 system either. I think a big trade like the hypothetical that the OP posted would take the Blue Jays from probably a 18-25 system to maybe borderline top 10.
I also think that Dopirak is rated a tad too high at 10.
Probably wouldn't even be top 3 in the AL East
1) Red Sox
2a) 2b)Tampa and Baltimore are very close
4) Then Toronto
as an aside
I sort of have a soft spot for the Yankees system in that, I think it gets bashed more than it ought to, but I think there’s some intriguing solid assets in there. I think the Yankees system has some depth, but the top shelf is still developing. That said, I’mnot disagreeing. I think the Yankees system would rank last if this hypothetical trade happened.
+1
Let’s put it this way. Last year, David Cooper was rated #5 in the Blue Jays system. This year, according to your list, once you excise Travis Snider from the list, Cooper is rated #7. Considering Cooper’s value probably dropped this year, that really doesn’t say very much about the progress you claim
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by OldProspects on Jul 23, 2009 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions
felix hernandez
lol @ that comparison.
King Felix is 23 and has thrown 800+ innings. Snider is 21, has 173 ml ab’s, and is currently playing in AAA.
felix
oh well about the specifics, fact is the guy is 23. he’s still a prospect to me.
-1
Snider doesn’t qualify as a rookie, yes, but he’s still a prospect because he’s not currently playing in the majors.
Felix obviously isn’t a prospect because he’s a number 1 starter…
I will say that
what defines a prospect is certainly a debatable question to a certain extent. That said, I think most people use the rookie status as a definition of whether a guy is still a prospect or not.
Dear Allfemale
Just having some fun. But, you just kinda have to accept the community standards for prospect.
Does Dontrelle Willis count for the Tigers?
How about Matt Harrison for the Rangers? Both are playing in the minors
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by OldProspects on Jul 24, 2009 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions
trade
Something more like Taylor, Donald, Carrasco, and another mid level prospect sounds more like it, I think the jays should consider adding a player to the trade, most likely a reliever.
I think that
Donald and Carrasco have been incredibly overrated lately.
Solace: Law says he's a fourth OFer
PaulThomas: I think Keith Law is only a fourth analyst
really?
I tend to think that Carrasco is a bit underrated now. People seem to be dumping on him, and I still think he’s got a shot at being a decent mid-rotation starter.
totally agree with you on carrasco
donald though…yep he is way overrated. wouldn’t touch him.
baseball rules.
oh agree on donald
sorry should’ve been clear that I was only speaking on Carrasco. I’m not sure what happened to Donald, but seriously, I think I’d rather have Chin-lung Hu than Donald at short. At least, I know Hu will vacuum up the position at a top rate.
Yeah, I think of Carrasco as a decent 3 or good 4
But nothing more than that. I think some are viewing him as more than that which is what I disagree with. And Donald….don’t get me started…
Solace: Law says he's a fourth OFer
PaulThomas: I think Keith Law is only a fourth analyst
for Drabek
if i was the Jays i’d make it absolutely necessary that the Phils include Drabek. I think the Jays would have to add in another legit prospect to make this happen.
The Jays should offer up one of: Kevin Ahrens, Justin Jackson, David Cooper, to make the deal a little more palatable for Philly.
for the phils?
Isn’t this about the phils trading for the number pitcher in baseball and you want the jays to add prospects to the package?
sigh….
when did the jays get zack?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 24, 2009 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Okay, top 5
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by OldProspects on Jul 24, 2009 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Henderson Alvarez
I also forgot to mention that this list is missing Henderson Alvarez who is definitely a top 30 guy, most likely a top 20 guy and maybe even around 10.
BA published a very glowing article on him just earlier this week.
You mean top 30, etc of the Blue Jays, right?
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by OldProspects on Jul 23, 2009 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions
This post made me think again
that it’d be interesting to try and do a midseason community organizational ranking. I guess I should pick up the ball to get it going, but I really don’t know enough to get it started. But it shouldn’t take that long (give one day for voting perhaps) and it would be a good fun conversation. Of course, the question is where to begin.
Because you only have 30 teams
It might be best to start with a general conversation, and then start the poll with the teams that got serious consideration
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by OldProspects on Jul 24, 2009 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions
good idea
what the heck … i’m not sure why i’m so hesitant to start a thread on something like this (guess I figured someone more knowledgeable would be a better way to start… it’s a message board.
fixed
now you guys can all calm down. it’s the Jays top 30 NOT CURRENTLY IN THE MAJORS, and not the top 30 PROSPECTS.
whew. glad we cleared that up.
Lets play a game.....
would you do
Swarzak, Guerra, Crain, Tosoni and Luke Hughes
for Roy Halladay ?
then
Alexi Casilla and the rights to Boof Bonser for Matt Capps immediately after ?
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Jul 24, 2009 12:59 AM EDT reply actions
Yes.
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by OldProspects on Jul 24, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
crap
i forgot Brad Mills and Trystan Magnuson.
…fixed.
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