This isn't really pertaining to anything other than my disgust while watching my Mets
by Mets2k9 on Jul 10, 2009 8:54 PM EDT
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PrintHow is it possible we are this bad? We have a payroll of $138,187,639, and Fernando Tatis is our #5 hitter? Really? Did Minaya not think that maybe we'd get a few guys hurt (like the 36 year old Delgado, and the reckless Beltran out there in center)? Did he maybe consider that instead of paying Oliver Perez $12 million a year, perhaps signing Adam Dunn for $8 million and using that $4 to sign quality backups? Has anyone ever, EVER, considered Perez to be worth $12 million? It's like giving a recovering addict an all expense paid weekend to Vegas and saying, "Stay sober and clean!" As I watch yet another defensive "masterpiece," I can't help but compare this team to an overmatched highschool team. Even my mom commented the other day, saying, "It's not even their fault. The guys they have out there are playing as well as they can. They are just terrible." And that's basically where it starts and ends. We are terrible. To think that we could have Dunn playing for us now, instead of trying to acquire him (in vain of course) instead of Oliver "I love to walk 7 guys in a game!" Perez. If we're trying to win now, why not trade some of our system, such as Flores, to a team like Oakland, who clearly loves to build young and has many attractive players we could be using, instead of Angel Fucking Pagan. Even David Wright, who is like a fucking eager Golden Retriever with an insanely effeminate voice of course, seems to just not care. Even Manny Ramirez gets pissed when he strikes out. And I think Manny doesn't even realize he's playing in a real game! Wright strikes out (often), and just walks off with this, "would it even matter if I got a base hit?" look on his face. I honestly feel like I would rather hit myself in the head with a Keith Hernandez Just for Men hairgrowth bottle until I am in a vegetative state than watch Fernando Nieve try to prove to us that it's cool that the guy couldn't get a starting job in the Majors before this, because he won his first two starts. Thank you for indulging in my rant, and God Save the (mets in) Queens
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haha
well i agree with a lot of what you are saying…the biggest mistake Minaya made was not signing Adam Dunn and i knew that would come back to kill us. While constructing the team in the offseason, knowing the layout and dimensions of the park, Dunn was the one guy they HAD to have. He is one of the few players who can actually hit a ball out of that park consistantly, and he could’ve been our everyday LF/backup first baseman for a year until Delgado left after the season where we coulda moved him to 1b. With Delgado’s age and performance questions (he couldnt hit water if he fell out of a boat for the first 3 months of the year last year before he started to hit), getting Dunn shoulda been priority #1.
As for Perez, no he isnt worht htat contract, but he is cheaper and younger than Lowe, with the potential to be better if he wasnt a headcase, and we needed another SP. You can never plan well for injuries, and certainly not for losing your starting ss, 1b, cf, primary set-up man, #2 and #3 sp’s for a large chunk of time.
I know, but...
at least have some sort of doomsday plan. Every team should have a few serviceable backups. These guys just simply cannot play. And Perez to me is a rich man’s Daniel Cabrera. And rather than Lowe, or Perez, why not sign Burnett? Or trade for one of the various pitchers on the market?
Dunn
I couldn’t agree more. Would have had a lot of value as a 1B/OF with 40 HR power, especially given what has happened to this team. He wasn’t even THAT expensive.
Bobby Abreu would have been a nice signing for a few million too.
Lowe
In no way am I defending the Perez signing, but Lowe is 8 years older and would have cost quite a bit more.
It’s worth noting that Lowe’s GB% has dropped every year since 2006 with the biggest drop coming from 2008 (60%) to 2009 (currently 53%). His K% has fallen 5% from last year (17% vs 12%) and it’s at a career low 4.73/9. After fanning 20% in April, his K% hasn’t topped 10% in any month since.
That’s a guy I’d be worried about if I had a ton of money invested in for the next 4 years.
Someone please please please explain to me
Why we got Frenchy? The only thing I can think of is (THIS IS NOT AN ACTUAL RUMOR…I AM MAKING THIS UP) that Omar is trying to flip him with someone else for Teahen…you know how much KC wants him.
frenchy
i like this deal a lot for the mets…frenchy is younger, has more power and just as good a fielder with a better arm then church (plus he has yet to miss 3rd base while running home). Sometimes all it takes is a different voice and a change of scenery to make it click…at one point a read an article from espn taking opinions from scouts about who they believe will be the next best right fielders in teh game, and most of them picked frenchy…hes still very young with potential, church sucks
by miraclemets on Jul 10, 2009 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you sure he's a better fielder?
I’ve heard that his defense is suspect, but that he has a nice arm. I’ve also read in numerous places (before he left the braves) that his stats showed that he was the worst everyday player in baseball.
I dont know if youve ever watched jeff francoeur play.
His defense sucks and not even rudy jaramillo could fix him at the plate. the only thing he has is durability and a strong arm.
This doesn't shock me
Almost every braves fan I know has said something to this effect. (I say this having lived in Atlanta for 4 years….so I know my share of Braves fans)
i'm sure
all braves fans are EXTREMELY frustrated with him
Beltran is reckless?
It took years for people to appreciate his defense, because he doesn’t flop all over the place like all the flashier centerfielders.
are you a mets’ fan? Because he goes hard for every ball that’s hit. and often lays out to catch a well hit ball
Not enough to call him reckless
He dives less than most centerfielders, I’d say.
hahaha the mets are stinkin lately and I am lovin it (I am a braves fan I dont have much to brag about)
by Heyward is the next crime dog on Jul 10, 2009 11:07 PM EDT reply actions
I mean really
The Mets management are pussies. They don’t seem to understand that they either have to rebuild totally or rack up the payroll to win big and win now. At this point the management better explore every damn possibility they have. I don’t even goddamn care if they trade Reyes, or promote their whole entire farm system.
I mean really (as well)
Jesus H. Christ — the Mets are missing their All-Star SS; their All-Star CF; their starting 1B; half their starting pitching staff; their 8th inning guy…etc…etc. and they only fell below .500 a few games ago.
I know Met bashing is en vogue (especially among Met fans), but give them some credit that they’re not down where the Nats are currently.
www.newjackhustlers.net
The most telling part of your post is your comparison to the Nats -- but not as you intended
Mets payroll in early April: $149 million
Nats payroll in early April: $60 million
The Mets are out-spending the Nats by two-and-a-half to one; the fact that they have more wins than the Nats, Padres, Pirates and Diamnondbacks is small comfort.
As for injuries, when you load a team with aging veterans, that’s a risk you take. Delgado is almost collecting social security, Jose Reyes had a long history of hamstring injuries that almost derailed his career.
As for Mets fans, its true we are tired of the many foolish moves by Minaya. Some here have mentioned the Perez signing, which I agree was foolhardy, and here’s another: Going after JJ Putz AFTER you’ve already signed F-Rod. There is never a shortage of quality setup guys who can be had for bargains. Just look at the Mariners after the Putz trade: Even with Morrow getting hurt, Aardsma and Lowe have pitched far better than Putz and at a tiny fraction of the cost.
by northernexposure on Jul 11, 2009 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions
And what’s the payroll for the Met team that’s on the field right now and has been for most of the year? It’s probably around like $80 million, with $20 million of that coming from Santana.
And how did the Mets load their team with aging veterans — Delgado is it. Is Beltran aging at 32? Are Perez, Maine, Pelfrey, and Putz aging veterans?? And as for Reyes — he’s missed a grand total of 15 games over the past four years — not exactly an obvious injury risk there.
Minaya hasn’t been the best GM, but this season for the Mets has been derailed by a massive amount of injuries, not because he’s terrible.
www.newjackhustlers.net
My wrong. Gary Sheffield is clearly a youngster. And Livian Hernandez is only 34.
JJ Putz is 32 as is Brian Schneider. Luis Castillo is nearly 34. Delgado is 37, Beltran 32 and Ryan Church was approaching 31 before he was traded. By my count that’s six starting position players in their thirties. The Mets roster was tied for being the second oldest in the majors at the start of the year. Players typically peak between 26 and 30. While the drop-off after that age can be subtle or sudden, the risk of so many position players in their thirties in undeniable.
The payroll without Delgado, Beltran, Reyes, Maine, etc. is just over $100 million, which is only 67% bigger than the Nationals payroll. Of course, if we discount payroll by those on the DL the National’s payroll without those on the DL is $54 million and the Mets payroll is nearly double.
As for Reyes, the history of hamstring injuries came as he was a prospect moving up the minors – there were serious doubts over whether he’d ever be health enough to play – he missed the majority of 2003 and 2004.
Injuries have played a role in the team’s struggles this year, a big one on offense (though not with pitching – losing one staring pitcher and one setup guy is par for the course for a ML team). But those injuries are a reflection of the risks of having an older team, and along with other poor moves by Minaya, are reasons Mets fans have grown disenchanted with him.
by northernexposure on Jul 11, 2009 3:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Dude you're citing peripheral players
like Livan who’s our 5 pitcher, Castillo who’s some crappy 2B and nitpicking at 31 and 32 year olds.
Dude, that ain’t old.
Sorry but we’re talking about the MLB here.
by METSMETSMETS on Jul 11, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Castillo is signed a 5 year deal (including for the next 3 seasons)
That seems to indicate that he’s not a “peripheral player” in the team’s eyes, but instead someone that the organization intended to be a core part of the team. Committing years, dollars and playing time to a player like Castillo is the exact problem being discussed.
no thats called a
MISTAKE…and i think most mets fans knew that from the second it was announced
by miraclemets on Jul 11, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Old?!?
In what universe is a 32 year-old player “old”? I realize this is a prospect site and all, but calling Carlos Beltran old at 32 is preposterous. Let’s stop behaving as if every player once they hit 30 becomes a liability — especially as the track-record for players performing well into their late 30s grows (chemically enhanced or not…)
Obviously there is a decline in players as they age, but acting as if players like Carlos Beltran and JJ Putz are headed towards the old folks home is just plain silly.
www.newjackhustlers.net
The biggest drop-off statistically is from age 32 to age 33
That according to Bill James, who wrote along wit Joe Posnanski about this recently for Sports Illustrated:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/joe_posnanski/06/29/james.33/index.html
Perhaps you could start there — last I checked Bill was still in our universe. Or at least my universe — the one where statistics and logic form the basis for argument.
by northernexposure on Jul 11, 2009 3:15 PM EDT reply actions
Jerry Manuel
Please stop putting Alex Cora so high in the lineup.
Here is the lineup that I want Manuel to try out for at least a lil while…
1. Luis Castillo
2. Dan Murphy
3. David Wright
4. Gary Sheffield
5. Jeff Francoeur
6. Angel Pagan
7. Brian Schneider
8. Alex Cora
9. Pitcher
I know some of you might think Frenchy should not be batting that high, but I think he offers the most upside from the #5 spot in the order. There isn’t much to work with.
Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!
Vs. Lefties
1. Luis Castillo
2. Jeff Francoeur (I know I know, but with Wright behind him, and Castillo on base, he sees more FBs)
3. David Wright
4. Gary Sheffield
5. Fernando Tatis
6. Omir Santos
7. Alex Cora
8. Angel Pagan
9. Pitcher
Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!
If I were the Mets
I wouldn’t even let that guy in the ballpark. I loved how he went after some of the guys the Mets have now earlier. What was it Beltrans overpaid and Wright can’t lead.
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