Mariners/Royals trade
by sdbaseballfan on Jul 10, 2009 4:02 PM EDT
43 comments
Mariners deal Betancourt to Royals
Seattle acquires pair of prospects in excange for shortstop
By Jim Street / MLB.com
07/10/09 3:18 PM ET
The Mariners have traded shortstop Yuniesky Betancourt to the Royals for Minor League pitchers Danny Cortes and Derrick Saito.
The 27-year-old Betancourt, signed as a non-drafted free agent in January 2005 after he fled Cuba, currently is on a rehabilitation assignment with Triple-A Tacoma. He suffered a strained hamstring more than two weeks ago.
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Gut reaction?
Love the deal for Seattle. I am not a Yuniesky fan and thought they could get capable, more consistent production out of Ronny (and that’s saying something). Admittedly, don’t know a ton on Saito, but I like Cortes. He hasn’t developed exactly as hoped, but he’s still a good young arm, IMO.
by toonsterwu on Jul 10, 2009 4:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I should say
developed as I thought he would. I really thought he’d chug ahead and come up with a gigantic year. Definitely coming around though. And when you can add a lefty, why not.
by toonsterwu on Jul 10, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, he's better than Pena/Hernandez, right?
by thejd44 on Jul 10, 2009 4:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
But that’s like saying AIDS is better than cancer.
by ThomasG on Jul 10, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Is he even?
2009 WAR:
Hernandez: -.03
Pena: -.08
Betancourt: -.09
by aCone419 on Jul 10, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What I don't understand is the why
well, I don’t understand why they give up what looks to be a perfectly solid lefty in Saito and one of their better arms, but the why gets us there. Why Betancourt? Do they think they can make a run and that Betancourt will help? Because otherwise, well, what’s the justification? That’s the only one I can come up with, and that’s very iffy (they certainly aren’t losing because of their shortstop production). I don’t like Betancourt offensively/defensively, but if you think you can win, then I can understand the rationale a bit (doesn’t mean I can stomach it). Problem is, they’ve got 3 teams ahead of them. The White Sox keep on chugging ahead, the Tigers look solid enough now, and the Twins always manage to hang in there. I really don’t see the Royals putting enough pieces together to make a surge, and maybe Cleveland goes on a 2nd half run to leave KC 5th again. I must admit, I am really puzzled at some things Dayton Moore has been doing.
- I know, well at least I think, that you are simply pointing out the positive outlook.
by toonsterwu on Jul 10, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
Moore is hoping that, like when two black holes collide, if he runs out Yuni and Pena out there at the same time, something immensely powerful will occur.
by ThomasG on Jul 10, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ha
that may explain their offensive philosophy as a whole! Okay, that’s a bit harsh.
by toonsterwu on Jul 10, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
It’s almost working with Nick Green and Julio Lugo…
Who loves orange soda?
by Kenan and Kel on Jul 10, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's more expensive, the Royals aren't going anywhere this year
and the pitching he gave up is pretty valuable.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
Free Travis Buck.
by Blicks on Jul 10, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was trying really hard to find a positive for the Royals.
I don’t actually think this was a good move for them.
by thejd44 on Jul 11, 2009 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Moore is collecting useless infielders.
Tools Whore
by Tyler on Jul 10, 2009 5:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Moore is collecting useless infielders.
Fixed.
by thejd44 on Jul 11, 2009 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cortes was arrested recently
http://www.kfsm.com/news/sns-ap-bbm—naturals-cortesarrested,0,424698.story
I don’t think Cortes was that big loss to the Royals given his poor command this year. There’s less than a 50-50 chance he will pan out. That being said, the Mariners made a worthwhile gamble, but I can’t fault the Royals for parting ways with him.
Besides, Daniel Duffy, Mike Montgomery, Tim Melville and Aaron Crow are the pitching future of this franchise.
by sdbaseballfan on Jul 10, 2009 5:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Still not an excuse to dump him like that.
Less than a 50-50 chance he’ll pan out? You can say the same with most prospects, and the chances aren’t that much better for the Duffy/Montgomery/Melville/Crow crop.
I’m not saying Cortes is this great prospect who should’ve been untouchable, but the Royals could easily have gotten much better value for him.
Betancourt was a DFA or release candidate. No way Royals should’ve given up anything of value for him.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
Free Travis Buck.
by Blicks on Jul 10, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's the second time he's been traded
Does that mean anything? Are people giving him a chance and then moving him on?
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
by 306008 on Jul 11, 2009 8:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
who, Cortes?
When he was traded from the White Sox, he was just a raw upside kid. Hard to say that the White Sox were “giving him a chance and then moving him on” in that scenario. The Royals probably soured on him (doesn’t excuse the deal).
by toonsterwu on Jul 11, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
re: how does ....Moore
even have a job?
Betancourt was not worth two prospects, let alone two DECENT ones.
Maybe he can ask Billy Ripken to come out of retirement and play Ss?
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on Jul 10, 2009 5:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I want to like Moore
He did some positive things when he got there, but man … his latest moves haven’t been the best.
On a side note, does it seem like the “next wave” of young GM’s, those guys like Shapiro, Ricciardi, DePodesta, and others (I mean, there’s other young guys out there, but there was sort of that next wave loosely in the Beane mold) have largely fizzled? I don’t blame the process – I blame the individuals if anything. Then again, Shapiro has made positive offseason moves, on paper.
by toonsterwu on Jul 10, 2009 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Theo Epstein begs to differ.
In fairness, Shapiro has done a fine job for a while now, Ricciardi was never really that smart (and honestly, a bit of hack, see comments on Adam Dunn) and DePodesta is quite underrated and didn’t really get a fair shot. Dayton Moore is more of a old school guy so he isn’t really in the Beane/saber mold.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 10, 2009 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
oh agreed on Epstein
Hence, the largely. He’s the one guy that’s hit a home run. I am tremendously impressed with what he’s done. It’s easy to forget that the Red Sox system was considered weak when he came in. He took the loose early 21st century model and has made an organization that I really admire in their talent procurement. People will say the money helps, and it does, but I love the mix of polish and upside that they gamble on, and I love how they go about things. I don’t recall them being ranked 1 at any point in recent years (too lazy to check), but to me, they are the most impressively run organization in the past 5 years or so (that might be an interesting discussion to have – which organization impresses, that said, most people would just rattle off the teams with the top talent right now).
As for Shapiro, he’s a tough case to crack. Love the moves he makes, and certainly, he’s had some bad luck. Every offseason, it seems like you can make positive comments about his plan. But it just hasn’t panned out well for them, and at the end of the day, production does matter. I imagine he’ll have the time to get one more manager in there if so chooses, but if he doesn’t get more consistency there, I wonder if he’s out in a couple years. Antonetti is someone I like, for no apparent reason that I can pin down.
Not sure what to make of Byrnes. Some bold moves, some financial constraints, so I should like it a lot, but I’m not sure. Let’s see, who else was there. Does Daniels fit that mold? He got off to an iffy start, has sort of righted the ship, but he got a sweet deal to help that process.
by toonsterwu on Jul 10, 2009 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Youre also ignoring Josh Daniels and Andrew Friedman
Those guy are in the Billy Beane/Theo Epstein new school mold.
I agree, Dayton Moore is old school.
Ricciardi was too far in the other direction at first. He’s since corrected that to a large degree… but its tought to get past your mistakes in the AL East.
by alskor on Jul 11, 2009 2:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jon Daniels?
The 2009 Texas Rangers offense: sigh...
by Kinslerhomer on Jul 11, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's considered in that mold
I’m not really sure why, though. I don’t recall him being directly connected, but he was a young man who was considered a sabrmetrics guy.
by toonsterwu on Jul 11, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What has Ricciardi done of late
That has “corrected” things. I guess it’s a timeframe question, and maybe I need to comb through their transactions some, but I haven’t been all that impressed with anything recent. I mean, yeah, he gave Adam Lind a shot eventually, but they sort of eventually had to see what they had.
As for Friedman and Daniels, I’m taking a wait and see approach on both. Daniels has adjusted some, and I’m waiting to see how Friedman does in the next couple of years as he was sort of hand held in the early stages, IIRC.
Hmm … who else was there?
I’m also trying to think of other organizations that I’ve been impressed with for an extended amount of time (say, 5 years or so). Braves would have to be up there, although I thought for a period there the organizational ability was overhyped a bit due to their past success. Hmm … I’m trying to think and not many teams are consistently solid. Usually a spurt here or there, at least, as I think through it right now. Dodgers perhaps would make a top 5 list.
by toonsterwu on Jul 11, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ricciardi – He’s turned back to integrating scouting. The Travis Snider pick marked a big change in organizational strategy.
by alskor on Jul 11, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A bag of balls and a handshake would have been too much, this should be illegal. It’s not right to take advantage of the mentally handicapped.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at second.
by marcello on Jul 11, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
RoyaLOLs?
Congratulations, you just gave up actual value for one of the worst players in all of baseball.
Zduriencik continues to show that he knows exactly what he’s doing. Dayton Moore continues to show that he hasn’t got a clue. Pretty predictable that the Royals would get taken for a ride in a trade between those two.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
by PaulThomas on Jul 10, 2009 5:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Being a Twins FaN......
I love it!
Keep it coming K.C.
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Jul 10, 2009 6:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm looking forward to Rany/Posnanski reaction articles
by jibs on Jul 10, 2009 6:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Neyer was funny
I just got on twitter.Follow me at http://twitter.com/JDSussman
I'll be trying to post lines and analysis as much as possible.
Remember: baseball guys... baseball...
by Metty5 on Jul 10, 2009 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damn, wish Beane could have convinced them to take Crosby instead.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 10, 2009 9:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Omar Minaya just asserted his stupid
Quick, Billy! Go pawn off OCab, Crosby, and Giambi on Omar!
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
Free Travis Buck.
by Blicks on Jul 10, 2009 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How can you guys miss John's report on Saito?
Derrick Saito, LHP: 16th round pick in ‘08 out of Cal Poly. Just traded to the Mariners in the Betancourt deal. Saito has a 4.15 ERA with a 53/15 K/BB in 52 innings, 50 hits allowed. His fastball is mediocre velocity-wise as 86-89 MPH, but it plays faster because of a solid breaking ball that he mixes it with. He’s tough on lefties (.196 this year) and could be an effective LOOGY if his command holds up at higher levels.
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
by 306008 on Jul 11, 2009 8:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Interesting...
compared to Dave’s report from USSM
Derrick Saito will be regarded by some as a throw-in, being a 5’9 lefty with college experience who is merely putting together some good numbers in the Midwest League, but I wouldn’t undersell him. When he was relieving in college, he could hit 97 mph on the gun, and offset this with a curveball that ranked among the best in the conference. He has all the pitches to start, it’s just a question of durability I suppose, but at worst, he could be an interesting left-on-left reliever. Southpaws don’t hit him well, with just a .212 average against and extra-base hits that you could count on one hand. He strikes them out at a rate of 11.30 per nine, but his walk rate is over three and three-quarters, even after some significant improvements over last season.
That’s quite a difference on the fastball, even if it’s starting vs. relieving.
by PissedMick on Jul 11, 2009 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
From Kevin Goldstein:
Somebody told me they read that Saito is 97 mph with THREE plus breaking balls — HILARIOUS
The 2009 Texas Rangers offense: sigh...
by Kinslerhomer on Jul 11, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How bad is this deal for the Royals?
If both players the Mariners got for Betancourt immediately retire and never play baseball again, it’s still a great deal for Seattle to not have to pay a below replacement player millions for the the next few years. Just not having Betancourt around makes the team better and creates payroll flexibility.
The fact the M’s got anything at all in terms of players is effing incredible. That they are actually legitimate prospects is hysterical.
by thejd44 on Jul 11, 2009 7:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Get a load of this:
"The defensive statistics – I still really don’t understand how some of those statistics are evaluated, I really don’t. When you watch baseball games every single day, its very apparent who can play defensively and who can’t."
-Dayton Moore
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/dayton-moore-and-defense/
Unbelievable. Fire that man.
by alskor on Jul 14, 2009 2:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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