Nate Mcclouth Traded
by Mets2k9 on Jun 3, 2009 7:13 PM EDT
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The Pirates will reportedly receive three prospects in return. Tommy Hanson's name is was thrown around, but the Post-Gazette has "doubly confirmed" that the Braves' uber pitching prospect is not involved. Details to come. This is from the Pittsburgh Gazette. Big News. Details to come
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Heyward?
The Pirates were not even remotely shopping McLouth, but Atlanta, which very much was seeking an outfielder, came to them with an offer they could not refuse.
by my dixie wrecked on Jun 3, 2009 7:19 PM EDT reply actions
Hurts for us giving up Hernandez, Locke and Morton… But it looks to be a solid deal for both sides. Morton is the one piece I wish the Braves coulda held on to though.
Q: If on-base pct is so important then why don't they put it on the scoreboard? -Failcoeur
A: Because the Braves don't want to show their fans how bad you suck.
I like him a whole lot more than Reyes,
So I’m kinda bummed.
great deal for the braves
hernandez is nothing special as he doesn’t have power and isn’t really a big base stealer. morton is decent, but he is no medlen or hanson. locke is all potential, but he hasn’t dominated.
Hernandez has elite speed and defense.
Q: If on-base pct is so important then why don't they put it on the scoreboard? -Failcoeur
A: Because the Braves don't want to show their fans how bad you suck.
elite speed
if he has elite speed, he must not be very smart b/c he has 10 steals and 8 caught stealing so far this year. horrible percentage. they should have held out for schafer.
prior to this year
I think Gorkys had an 80%+ SB rate. I don’t know what’s the problems this year, but I wouldn’t say he’s a poor baserunner just yet. Could just be an anamoly … or maybe it’s a sign that Gorkys does need work on his base running (maybe his pure speed gave him leeway in the lower levels). Don’t know, but with only part of this season done, too early to tell for me.
Ben Badler at BA just wrote this regarding Gorkys
“Gorkys Hernandez also is one of the best defensive CFs in the minor leagues. Guy can fly, takes good routes and strong arm”
you misread Badler’s point.
Hernandez IS A GOOD CF because he can fly and has a strong arm (plus good routes).
And every team certainly does not have a phenomenal CF
by world dictator on Jun 4, 2009 5:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Anyone know where McLouth will play
Gold glove aside, I’ve never heard very good things about his fielding in center. Will the Braves go with Blanco in center and McLouth in left? Or will I have to keep watching Garret Anderson try to play baseball and fail.
Diaz should probably be playing everyday in LF, TBH. He’s got to be better v RHP than Anderson or Blanco. He’s certainly better than Frenchy.
This is a nice move by the Braves, IMO. I like Locke a lot (strong GB%, LH with good stuff, the right age for his level, but the Braves have a bunch of guys around the same level or slightly lower with similar upsides (Rohrbaugh, DeVall, Stovall, Spruill, etc), so it was a position of depth.
Hernandez is similar, though I like him less as a prospect. Clearly behind Schafer, and they traded for an MLBer at the same level. Morton, meh, probably a RP.
I’m not sure how much longer the Pirates can afford to trade useful major leaguers for guys who probably aren’t going to be impact players. I would’ve rather seen them get Locke and say, Schafer, than getting Morton and Hernandez.
If the Braves are smart
They’ll split his time in CF and at a corner until Schafer establishes himself as the full-time CF. In the mean time, McLouth should start 2-3 games a week in center (presumably with a LH pitcher on the mound, as the LH-hitting Blanco would sit in these cases) and the rest at a corner, taking ABs away from Garrett Anderson and Jeff Francoeur.
What I expect, however, is for them to send Blanco back down and play McLouth in CF every day.
Sorry
when you referred to “the LH-hitting Blanco”, I assumed you were implying a RH hitting McLouth. Rereading it, I can see that nothing was implied.
I think
that the best alignment has Blanco in CF with McLouth in LF, but that, at least early on, they’ll stick McLouth in CF and wait to see when Schafer makes it back up.
Their best allignment
involves sending Francoeur to AAA and playing McClouth in RF and Diaz in LF.
I dunno, I personally would rather have went after someone else or kept the players. McLouth is OK but he isn’t a CF (certainly not a “gold glover” caliber player if the GG award was remotely close to what it should be) and I’m not sold on his bat long term to be honest. I’ve been a HUGE fan of Locke for a while now and think the other 2 players are pretty good in their own right. I think this is a reasonable deal and any Pirate fans that think it is horrible or give Neal a ton of grief over it are more upset about the past 17 years than this deal. Same with the Yankee deals last year, he got a reasonable haul for what he gave up. The potential is there in all 3 days for the Pirates to make out in the long run.
whoa
this one is surprising. At first glance, I think it’s alright for both sides. I’d probably give the edge to the Braves, as they didn’t have to overpay in early June, but I like Gorkys and Locke a decent amount, and morton is a usable asset. This should lead to McCutchen getting that long look.
I applaud the fact that Huntington is trying to build up arm depth. Whether or not he chose the right guys, only time will tell, but I’m a really big fan of Locke.
+1
It’s a deal that gets the job done for both sides. At first I thought the Pirates didn’t quite get as much as they should have, but thinking about it some more I think they did about well as could be expected. They certainly weren’t going to get more than one major league ready player in the deal, and they obviously weren’t going to get a Hanson or Heyward . . .those types of guys just aren’t getting moved these days. And yet, the Pirates managed to improve their minor league system with not just depth, but quality depth.
what I like about Huntington
is that his 3 big trades have focused on getting a mix of “ready” talent and “upside” pieces. It lessens some of the risk (obviously, there’s always risk, even with proven guys). I like that he’s smart enough to realize that he can’t go with solely “ready” guys and can’t go solely with “upside” guys. Who knows how things will turn out, but without the benefit of time, I think it’s a very shrewd strategy and that he’s landed solid pieces and made solid deals, while having a good understanding of the market.
Yeah I think he is building depth and that is the first step you need to rebuild an organization. The Pirates were essentially one step above an expansion team. He has brought in a lot of players that are near MLB ready and a few with high ceilings that are a ways away. If he continues to have good drafts and is willing to jump into the international market, he will soon have a lot of high ceiling guys to develop while the average players he brought in for depth reasons hold the fort down. It’s going to take time but they are definitely on the right track as far as I’m concerned. This draft is another big step for me and my confidence in him, I’m a Braves fan first but I’ve lived within 2 hours of Pittsburgh my whole life so have always watched them as well.
Good deal for both sides
McLouth is an awful defender. I believe he’ll have to be at a corner. The question is whether or not Diaz or Francour are moved. If they aren’t the Braves are really screwing up IMO. Please don’t say that he is a GG winner… At a corner he is probably a 3 win player.
Gorskys isn’t a great player. But his defense will make him at least a CoCo Crisp esc. player for Pittsburg. If they love him in Center I would put McCutchen in RF and allow him to fill out and become a masher. Otherwise leave him in Center and have a great OF defense built around those two.
Morton and Locke are good arms, and really Pitt needs depth more than anything.
Remember: baseball guys... baseball...
awful defender?
He makes pretty good plays and yes he is a GG winner. He’s not as good as Jordan Schafer defensively but awful is stretching it.
Well, there goes any chance of Delmon Young
becoming a Brave.
I think its a good trade for both teams…
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Jun 3, 2009 9:17 PM EDT reply actions
There's a reason why the Pirates have had 83 consecutive losing seasons or so
What an horrible, horrible trade.
McLouth, while he’d probably be better off in LF, is signed through 2011 with a 2012 team controlled option. He’ll cost the balance of $2 million this year, $4.5 million in 2010, $6.5 million in 2011 and $10.65 million in 2012 or receive a $1.25 million buy-out. He’s 27 years old and has posted an OPS over .800 the last 3 seasons.
And what do the Pirates get in return for a pretty damn good player?
Gorkys Hernendez, a fine defensive CF but a weak bat. A contact hitter who’s seen his K rate jump from 19% in High-A to 25% in AA and his walk rate fall from 12% to 7% with no noticable increase in power to possibly show for the decline. A speedster who went from attempting 65 steals in 2007 to 24 attempts last year, and is 10/18 in attempts in 2009.
Charlie Morton is a 4th/5th SP maybe.
Locke is an A-ball lefty with solid-to-good stuff but lousy results thus far.
You’d think Nate McLouth, GG winner and All-Star with a team friendly contract, would be worth more than the junk Atlanta just tossed away.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 3, 2009 10:39 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
+1
Promising pitchers in A levels are almost renewable resources. Impact hitters in the majors are not.
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morton
hes been great in the minors all around, and he can get his fastball up to 95 mph . He throws four pitches in all and theyre each at least decent. What is the knock against him, other than major league track record(which was a small sample size) it looks like his stuff supports his numbers…..i think he can be a good 4 starter, maybe even a good three starter, is that out of line?
WTF Pirates?
I agree with (super?) grover. The Pirates did not get enough in return for McClouth. The package they got is something I would expect they could get for McClouth during the last year he’s under contract. Fact is, he is signed at a reasonable rates for 2- 3 more years, therefore, making his trade value much higher than what the Pirates got in return.
I like Jeff Locke’s upsdie quite a bit and Morton has an MLB average arm, but don’t like Hernandez at all as a future MLB regular.
I think if the Pirates actually “shopped” McClouth, they would have realized that they could have gotten more in return.
"In 1962 I was named Minor League Player of the Year. It was my second season in the Bigs." - Mr. Baseball, Bob Uecker
by prince of power on Jun 3, 2009 11:46 PM EDT reply actions
Why?
To shore up the lingering organizational weakness of “the minor league disabled list”?
Ouch Babe
Funny, but as an owner of Cole, very ouch.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Jun 4, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't hate the deal for Pittsburgh
But with McCutchen there, they really don’t “need” Gorkys. I’d think either Jordan Schafer or Medlen would’ve been a better third guy in the deal. Hanson was undoubtedly never on the table to begin with, so that’s out. Gorkys is pretty similar to Nyjer Morgan, who is already established.
I am bullish on Morton and Locke. Bucs have a mixed bag on developing young starters; Gorzelanny looked good, now he doesn’t. Zach Duke didn’t look good, now he does Ohlendorff looks good, etc.
Pirates probably could have gotten Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera, and something else for McLouth this past offseason.
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