Neftali Feliz to bullpen. To Texas next?
by ajw on Jun 24, 2009 1:26 PM EDT
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It sounds like Texas has moved Feliz to the AAA bullpen, with a thought of bringing him up to support the Rangers' bullpen in the second half. What do people think about that? Personally, I think it can be a good move, so long as they view him as a multi-inning guy for this year and then plan to return him to starting next season. IMO, he's too young and effective to move to the bullpen full-time right now.
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just for now
I don’t see how they could possibly leave him in the bullpen long term. He’s one of the premier arms in the minors and a future star – he’s not going to be a major league long reliever.
But he might end up a closer
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by OldProspects on Jun 25, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Johan Santana was brought up as a reliever too...
Texas will find someway to screw him up though…
A man walks into a meat shoppe and goes to the counter. The cashier asks, "Thinking about buying some meat?". The man replied, "No, I'm going to buy meat, I was thinking about punanny."
The problem I have with this blanket statement
Texas will find someway to screw him up though…
Is that it’s a different mindset and different people making decisions from when that line might have been true.
It remains to be seen if the new approach the Rangers are using will be good or not.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jun 25, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
It was just a joke
If I was trying to be serious, I would have presented atleast some type of support.
The Rangers have an exceptional base of talent (with even more on the way) and I expect them to be very dangerous in the AL West once they find their pitchers…
A man walks into a meat shoppe and goes to the counter. The cashier asks, "Thinking about buying some meat?". The man replied, "No, I'm going to buy meat, I was thinking about punanny."
by bwellnjonesco on Jun 25, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
heh ok fair enough
I’ve read that line so many times on this site that you never know
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jun 25, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m just wondering, does anyone actually need reminding of the tremendous quantity of shitty, horrible pitchers the Rangers have paid millions of dollars acquiring and developing? Before this season, they had what since the decade began? Kenny Rogers as the only starter that ever had an ERA under four? Kameron Loe drew excitement at one point? Everyone knows about the Ranger’s unsuccesses, so I shouldn’t have to spell it out again…especially, just leaving a quick smartass comment…
A man walks into a meat shoppe and goes to the counter. The cashier asks, "Thinking about buying some meat?". The man replied, "No, I'm going to buy meat, I was thinking about punanny."
by bwellnjonesco on Jun 26, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Sore spot?
Don’t forget Chris Young. He had a pretty promising year before he and Adrian Gonzalez were traded for Adam Eaton.
And John Danks.
Yeah, he’s kind of good.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
They just brought up Holland as a reliever and quickly transitioned him to the rotation
Daniels also made some comments yesterday how he felt starting pitching would be too expensive as there wouldnt be enough teams selling, but that acquiring relief pitching was very possible.
So I would say there’s a decent chance this is just a transition period to the MLB rotation, along with a chance to limit his innings. There is obviously a good amount of risk in such a move b/c switching young pitchers between the pen and rotation has often proven a great way to get them hurt.
The good news is that in either role, Feliz has been deemed someone who can help the MLB team now.
Agreed
I like the idea of bringing up a starter and sticking him in the bullpen to both limit his innings and build his confidence. This strategy worked very well with guys such as Johan and Billingsley and I could see it working here as well.
That said, I still believe that Feliz will spend the bulk of his career in the back end of a bullpen as opposed to being a starter.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Jun 24, 2009 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Often? Really?
I’m trying to think of an example of a young pitcher who wound up injuring his arm because he was transitioning to the bullpen from the rotation in the minors and can’t come up with any. It’s not that I don’t think they exist, I just can’t think of any, which makes me doubt the “often proven” assertion.
by realitypolice on Jun 24, 2009 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions
no one better to question a faux-truism
than the reality police…
LOVE this
I think this is the best way to limit his innings while allowing him to face advanced competition and get acclimated to the MLB.
However, I really fear the Joba situation. Where he is dominate out of the pen, and fans argue to get him back there after early struggles.
Remember: baseball guys... baseball...
Fans will say what they'll say
And Nolan will proceed to ignore them.
Great Point
But being in Joba Land— its very very very infuriating to hear them talk about it all the time. Its topic number 1 here.
Remember: baseball guys... baseball...
Personally
I wanted the Yankees to treat Joba the way Johan was treated when he was coming up, starting him in the pen this season and transitioning him to starting halfway through the season or something. I don’t think the innings jump he’s going to have this year will be good for his long-term development, considering he’s already got a bit of an injury history. Not as a long-term move, mind you, but start him in the pen this season then have him pitch the second half out of the rotation. It’s not like the Yankees are wanting for starters.
Johan
spent four years in the pen before becoming a full-time starter. The last two seasons of that he was pretty much half-and-half, but I think the Johan route isn’t exactly what you’d have in mind for Joba.
Not really
The Rule 5 year he was a reliever (mostly), then the next year he didn’t really pitch much due to injury. Then the last two seasons were half and half. The last two are really the relevant ones anyway.
Nolan Ryan spent his first couple seasons bouncing between starting and relieving for the Mets
The monster at the end of this blog.
I tend to agree that this is a good way to break a pitcher into the majors, but I, too, fear a Joba-type situation. The same thing happened to Papelbon, right? Wasn’t he a starter that became a closer out of necessity and stuck there for good. It’ll be interesting to see when he gets the call. I drafted him in my 2008 Strat-O-Matic draft and have yet to see him throw a pitch. All I hear is about how loose and easy he looks while tossing it up around 97 MPH.
In an unrelated Rangers question, what happened to Max Ramirez? He’s hitting .240/.286/.332 at AAA with 3 HR and 61 Ks in about 210 plate appearances.
Wrist injury
hasn’t been bad enough to bench him, until his recent DL stint, but he is having a hard time controlling the bat because of it.
JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook
Brandon Morrow
being stuck in the bullpen has also hurt Brandon Morrow’s development quite a bit. It’s even messed up his head to the point where he thinks that’s where he belongs…wait…no he doesn’t…wait…maybe he does…oh crap.
Morrow was drafted as a closer though
in a classic Bill Bavasi move.
Although it will be interesting to see what happens of Aumont, as it seems as if his pen transition is permanent:
Jack_Zduriencik: Phillipe is a unique case. In our estimation, based on his physical presence, stuff, aggressiveness … all of our people thought that it was in the best interest of Phillipe and this organization to move him into the ‘pen. Phillipe’s mentality and his approach to the game is uniquely suited for a late-inning role. We also felt that he could be fast-tracked. It’s unusual to take a 20-year old kid and put him in the bullpen, but all of our people viewed this as a good fit for him and the organization. And keep in mind, there’s some very experienced Minor League personnel who were involved in this decision.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
Seems like...
they thought he would get hurt or was incapable of standing the rigors of a full season of starts. This was brought up quite a bit when he was drafted.
Theyre being proactive and moving him there now instead of waiting for him to get hurt or prove he can’t do it. If they really felt he was going to end up there anyway I dont really have a problem with the move. His comments make it seem they really felt he was going to end up in the pen anyway.
Also, its a good sign he called moving a young guy like this “unusual.”
Morrow was drafted as a starter
and spent his first year in the M’s system as one. He was jumped to the M’s pen the next season, and has been jerked around ever since.
You don’t draft a reliever at #5, even if you’re the Mariners.
Aah. Forgot that. Sorry.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
hmm
The same thing happened to Papelbon, right? Wasn’t he a starter that became a closer out of necessity and stuck there for good.
I thought Pap decided he wanted to be a closer, not that they made him be one.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jun 25, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Pap
was put into the role of closer originally because they had no one else to to do it, then the following year they wanted to make him a starter again but he decided he wanted to stay a closer, yes
by miraclemets on Jun 25, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Right OK
Well then I wouldn’t classify Pap as being “stuck there for good” in that role. He chose it.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jun 25, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
No problem with the rangers wanting to bring him up out of the pen
My problem however is them putting him in the pen in OKC right now. I would have rather seen them keep him in the rotation and let him get a few more starts and maybe 20 innings or so to continue working on his secondary stuff before bringing him up. Cause once he starts coming out of the pen my fear is he will rely on his fastball too much and his secondary pitches, which aren’t consistent or good enough as of yet, will deteriorate and either he will be forced to stay in the pen or his impact on the ML rotation will be pushed back into the middle of next year
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
well
with the fastball that he has all Feliz really needs to succeed out of the pen is another average pitch, whereas in order to make it as a starter he would need two more above average pitches along with that heat
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