Which team has the best young players in the MLB?
by NateHST on Jun 22, 2009 10:48 PM EDT
104 comments
Obviously this website is for MiLB players, but there are plenty of posts regarding prospects that recently reached the majors, and how they are faring. If you guys don't think this is the right place for this post, let me know and I'll take it down. Hopefully though it will generate some discussion and maybe even get rec'd and move Daaron's ridiculous Mazzaro posts.
The reason for this post is a recent post over at MLBTradeRumors.com that was about which team had the best young core of players at the major league level. The discussion generated well over 100 posts, mainly from fans of different defending their team's young players. The two that jumped out were the Dodgers and the Rays, who both do have a very nice group of players. Personally, I'm an A's fan, and I think they should be in the discussion, but I definitely don't think they're number one.
Tampa Bay - The Rays have a core of players where Longoria, Upton, and Price jump out at you, but the guys aroung them are pretty damn good, too. Niemann, Sonnanstine, Garza and Shields fill out the rotation, with Navarro as their battery mate. They've gotten plenty of hype due to the WS run last year, and if you ask me, it's deserved.
Los Angeles - The Dodgers are the class of the National League, and it's because they have almost a perfect mix of veteran and young talent. The names speak for themselves: Broxton, Billingsley, McDonald, Kershaw, Martin, Loney, Ethier, and Kemp. Whatever holes they had after these guys, they filled with veterans. Expect them to be competitive for a long time.
Boston - The Sox received a lot of attention that wasn't focused on the Rays. Guys like Lester, Masterson, and Bucholz are the good young pitchers. Papelbon is old, and Bucholz is overrated. Pedroia, Lowrie and Ellsbury are all pretty good to very good position players. Sorry Sox fans, I think Pedroia and Ellsbury are both overrated as well. Very talented core, but if it was the Mariners with that group, Pedroia never would have won the MVP and they wouldn't be receiving as much credit in the best young MLB players.
Oakland - While I don't think Oakland is number one, I think they're definitely top five. With a pitching staff of Outman, Braden, Mazzaro, Cahill and Anderson (all 25 or younger), and Bailey closing games out, it makes up for their weaker position players - though it's not as weak as it seems. I think Barton will be fine if he ever gets another chance, and Suzuki is one of the best young catchers in the game.
Texas - Like the A's, the Rangers skyrocket in about a year or so when they get another handful of prospects graduating into the MLB. Holland is there already, though, along with Teagarden, Saltalamacchia, Andrus, Davis and Kinsler. I'm sure I'm not alone when I say I the Rangers and A's will become a pretty damn good rivalry in the years to come (not that it isn't already).
Milwaukee - I think the Brewers wouldn't jump out at a lot of people, but maybe they should. With Gamel, Fielder, Braun, Hardy and Gallardo, they aren't as deep as some teams, but that's a pretty good group of players.
Honorable Mentions
Cincinnati - Cueto, Volquez, Bruce and Votto
Atlanta - Hanson, Jurrjens, McCann, Escobar, and Kotchman
San Francisco - Cain, Lincecum and Sandoval
Florida - Ramirez, Johnson, Coghlan, Volstad, Hermida
Obviously, I've forgotten some, and you disagree with my top five or six (I wrestled with the idea of the Brewers as an honorable mention or not). Hopefully it will generate some discussion. Discuss below.
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Baltimore
Was a glaring omission. They have guys with elite ceilings. Young filler players are nice but not core players.
Markakis
Jones
Wieters
Reimold
Hell, Bergesen looks like a real good #4 starter. The groundball rate and great control lead me to think he might be for real. Jim Johnson is a very good young reliever.
by bravitos5122 on Jun 22, 2009 11:47 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
You beat me to it
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Jun 22, 2009 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do love their outfield, Jones and Markakis are both awesome
And Wieters, too, but aside from that, I don’t think they have any elite players. My goal in this was never to offend anybody – if I left a team off, it’s not because I think they have bad young players, it’s just that I didn’t want to list every team.
by NateHST on Jun 23, 2009 3:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whoa there man
Aside from their three best young players, who all have elite upside (or in the case of Markakis and Jones, are ALREADY arguably elite)….who you acknowledge you think are awesome……you don’t think they have any elite players? I dunno, I find that to be a weird line of thought.
I’d definitely put Baltimore in the conversation, personally. Those three rank alongside any other top three you want to throw out there, Tampa and LA included. Reimold’s legit, too. Pitching’s not there, yet, but bring in Matusz and Tillman in the next year or two, and they’re gonna be a real, real dangerous team.
Outman, fighter of the Hitman, champion of the K, he's a master of scoreless innings and friendship for everyone.
by walk off bunt on Jun 23, 2009 5:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it’s just that I didn’t want to list every team
I am homer, but in this discussion B-more isn’t just another team to string out the list. Start with the outfield, that trifecta is the very best young OF in baseball and it starts with Jones. Is Adam Jones elliminated from the conversation of the best CF in the AL East, no he’s right in the middle of the debate. In the bullpen already is Bergesen who looks quite servicable to me and he’s the 5th best pitching prospect for the O’s. And Jim Johnson has more then held his own over the past two seasons, and will likely inherit the closers role after George is dealt. And who is it that leads all rookies in BA,RBI, and HR’s. Riemold. I don’t think B-More can be left out of this list.
"The key to winning baseball games is pitching, fundamentals, and three run homers."
by fourfingerwoo on Jun 23, 2009 8:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The pitchers will be arriving shortly
Matusz, Tillman, Arrieta, Bergesen, Hernandez, Patton, Britton, Zagone, Hobgood
by b_duardo on Jun 30, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As a homer you should know that Bergesen is not in the the pen right now. Actually he has been the orioles best starter and with his new improved arsenal, he is pitching as a #3/4 right now and could settle in as a solid #3. He will be an excellent back ender for when Matusz Tillman and Arrieta are up…..
But you certainly cannot leave off the O’s out of the list. Jones, Markakis, Wieters and Reimold are elite. Bergesen and Hernandez are pitching well, especially when considering its their rookie seasons.
by QBsIllest1 on Jun 30, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
First off putting the A's above the Giants is ridiculous........
No one and I repeat no “young players” have value that it equal to that of either Lincecum or Cain there in a class by themselves. Pablo Sandoval holds more trade value than either Anderson,Cahill or Mazzaro right now. Brian Wilson (27) is in his second full season and is tied for the league lead in saves. Schierholtz holds as much value as any young A’s of. When looking at the “best young players” I think you have to seriously take trade value into account since thats whats critical to an organization-getting value out of their players. If you take the minor leagues into account it’s not even close.
http://caincecum.blogspot.com/
by caincecum on Jul 3, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Put down your homer kool-aid, man
As a fan of both teams, I feel like I’m in a somewhat more objective place here.
FIrst off, I agree that including all players, the Giants have more cost-controlled talent/trade value than the A’s, mostly because Lincecum would be worth most teams’ entire minor league systems.
Second, I wouldn’t trade any of Buck, Sweeney, Cunningham or the significant prospects (Doolittle, Brown) straight up for Schierholtz, who is pretty useless in any season where he doesn’t hit .300 due to his merely average power, horrifying plate discipline, and inability to man center field.
Third, the A’s minor league system blows the Giants’ out of the water right now even with massive (and, IMO, foolish) graduations. There’s very little in the Giants system after Bumgarner, Posey and Alderson, and two of those three guys have had off years. After draft signings come in, the difference is likely (not certain, of course) to widen. I can do a more direct head-to-head comparison of the two if you want; I’m just not sure the rest of minorleagueball really cares that much.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
by PaulThomas on Jul 3, 2009 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
two of those three guys have had off years
wut? maybe Alderson, but I can’t see calling Posey or Bumgarner as having off years.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jul 4, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bumgarner's K/9 is noticeably off last year's pace and declining as he ascends levels
I don’t much care about his ERA— for what matters, it’s an off year.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
by PaulThomas on Jul 6, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Met should be an HM
NY Mets – David Wright(26), Jose Reyes(26), Fernando Martinez(20), Frankie Rodriguez (27), Mike Pelfrey (25), Bobby Parnell (24 awesome up until this recent stretch), Dan Murphy (24 being mishandled by the Mets IMO),
by Pelferized on Jun 22, 2009 11:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
And a pretty respectable farm at this point
Martinez and Mejia are a pretty solid top two for the organization, and Holt and Flores at #3/#4 and nuthin to scoff at either. Even the depth is lengthening out a bit, Savannah’s pretty loaded with interesting arms.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Meddler on Jun 29, 2009 4:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ahh, minorleagueball.com
Where 28 is “old”
by Galt on Jun 23, 2009 12:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I never really set any guidelines as to who I would consider young
and who I wouldn’t, which is my fault. If you’re referring to Papelbon, he isn’t necessarily old, but he has been around for a while – but then I guess Kinsler has, too, so yes, I guess you could throw Papelbon in.
by NateHST on Jun 23, 2009 3:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about Major League Baseball
Where 28 is in the middle of a player’s prime years, and thus in between young and old.
by thejd44 on Jun 23, 2009 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I usually see peak or prime years defined as 27-32. IMHO, 28 is on the young side… and usually still cheap and under initial team control.
by alskor on Jun 23, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I think under team control is more relevant to this discussion than actual age, if we want it to be anything substantive. Age is great, but when a guy is 25 and a free agent in a year or two it means less to the future of the organization than if he’s 25 and a free agent in four years. Otherwise we’re just talking about how old guys are, which isn’t nearly as interesting.
by Fanon on Jun 23, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think both are equally relevant
The prime benefit to developing a farm system, is to have players cheaply controlled through pre and early prime years. The cheap part is definitely a major aspect of it.
Miguel Cabrera is locked down to a (stupid) 8/140MM contract. Having him locked down as opposed to a 30yo with the exact same offensive and defensive stats for 2/20 doesn’t really provide the contractual advantages of “young core” guy. Yes, Cabrera has a ton more upside, but when you’re a team with a 60MM payroll, that’s not a good thing.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
by Blicks on Jun 25, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
detroit has a $60 million payroll?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jun 25, 2009 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No.
Ehhh. Wording fail.
Hypothetically, a team with a 60MM payroll would be much better off with our imaginary 30yo(or older) DH on a 2/20 than Miggy at 8/140. That’s probably what I meant there.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
by Blicks on Jun 25, 2009 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
obviously, that would be ideal....
but no 30 year old who hits like cabrera is going to sign a 2/20 contract….theyre going to sign a cabrera level contract. at least miggys contract takes him right through his peak years
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jun 27, 2009 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry
I phrased that poorly. I meant more guys who are cheap and controlled. So, yeah, Miguel Cabrera would be a poor example of such a player, but guys like David Wright, Jose Reyes, and Evan Longoria would fit the mold well. Essentially, the type of young, affordable core that can allow a team to spend in other areas. It’s less cut and dry than any other way, but it says more about a team’s outlook going forward.
Does that make sense?
by Fanon on Jun 25, 2009 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh yeah, I completely agree with this.
I think I was the one phrasing it poorly myself, actually.
Age and control.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
by Blicks on Jun 26, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
32 is way past a typical player's prime
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
by PaulThomas on Jun 23, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
a lot of players have sensational years at 32.
by METSMETSMETS on Jun 27, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those two statements are not mutually exclusive
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
by PaulThomas on Jun 27, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep.
And JoePoz/Bill James have a great recent article about how the 33rd birthday is a huge dropoff year. You don’t go from prime year to too old instantly (of course SOME guys have, but we’re talking on average).
It’s teams who think players are still in their prime when they’re 32 who do things like sign Jose Guillen to a three-year deal.
by thejd44 on Jul 1, 2009 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, my sense of it is that the average player's skills decline slowly from 28(ish)-32 and rapidly from 33-36
And the Royals are still captained by acephalopods.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
by PaulThomas on Jul 3, 2009 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Detroit
Justin Verlander (26)
Edwin Jackson (25)
Curtis Granderson (28)
Miguel Cabrera (26)
Rick Porcello (20)
Grandy’s a bit old, but it’s not shabby.
by demondeaconsbaseball on Jun 23, 2009 12:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Man
I still can’t believe Edwin Jackson is only 25. He has been around forever already.
Outman, fighter of the Hitman, champion of the K, he's a master of scoreless innings and friendship for everyone.
by walk off bunt on Jun 23, 2009 6:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is Granderson still young?
My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver
by Baltimo on Jul 2, 2009 5:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
28?
Thats pretty young, and it seems he’s still evolving as a player.
by demondeaconsbaseball on Jul 3, 2009 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As far as young pitching goes
I am really excited about what the A’s have going. Mazzaro looks like he could be a solid #2-3 starter, and Cahill is holding his own at a very young age (7 innings of one run ball tonight). Braden has obviously been a suprise, and while I don’t think he’ll sustain his current success, I do think he will eat some innings and consistently give you a sub 4.20 ERA. Outman is another guy who has been a bit of a suprise, but its obvious he has the stuff to put up very respectable numbers at the MLB level. Also, as an A’s fan who has seen nearly all of their games, Anderson really hasn’t been too much of a disappointment. He has shown flashes of the potential he has, and is just struggling some as a 21 year old rookie.
On the offensive side of things its a little more bleak, IMO. I love Suzuki, and think he has the potential to be a consistent .280-.290 hitter with a little pop. Add on the fact that he is excellent behind the plate and their is a lot to like about him. Barton isn’t going to become a Successful hitter at the MLB level until he returns to being the all-fields hitter he was throughout his minor league career. It looks like there is help on the way from the minors over the next couple years, but right now its a struggling group at the MLB level.
by JPShark on Jun 23, 2009 12:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Mazzaro looks like he could be a solid #2-3 starter
Its a shame that Matt Wieters turned out to be only a fringy, MLB regular type catcher.
by alskor on Jun 23, 2009 1:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's the next John Buck
baseball rules.
by doublestix on Jun 23, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's why I said "looks" like he "could" be
a solid #2-3 starter. I wasn’t implying that based on his short MLB career he will automatically be that. Not every A’s fan is going to pull a Daaron so chill a little bit bud. For the record, as a stated near the top of the comments, I think Wieters “could” be a “badass” for the Orioles. I think he’s the real deal, along with the other 95% of the baseball world.
by JPShark on Jun 23, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh
I was just mostly ignoring everything I knew about Wieters before this season, putting a ton of weight on what he’s done since his call up, assuming that a few weeks of performance has dramatically changed his ceiling and deciding that scouts and experts were wrong about his ceiling to begin with based on this exciting new “data.”
What? No good…?
by alskor on Jun 23, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do what you gotta do man...
at least I got a laugh out of it.
by JPShark on Jun 23, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Saying Mazzaro COULD be a #2/3 starter is a very fair comment. I think he is more of a 3/4, but calling him a potential 2/3 is not outrageous. We’re all sick of Daaron proclaiming Mazzaro can walk on water, but he is a good young pitcher.
by bl on Jul 1, 2009 5:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, the offense is, sadly, bleak looking
I love Suzuki and all, but he is what he is… a .280 hitting guy with moderate on base abilities and limited pop. Nobody else at the major league level is worth a damn right now. Closest guy to coming up and having a real impact? I’d venture Chris Carter. Maybe Cardenas. Cunningham’s pretty close, but calling his bat an “impact” one is probably a stretch, I think he’ll figure more like a Suzuki.
Outman, fighter of the Hitman, champion of the K, he's a master of scoreless innings and friendship for everyone.
by walk off bunt on Jun 23, 2009 6:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Colorado
Fowler
Stewart
Tulu
Jimenez
Carlos Gonzalez
Street is only 25
Morales if he stays healthy
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Jun 23, 2009 12:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
Fowler
Stewart
Tulo
and Ubaldo
is a great 4.
by daveh33 on Jun 24, 2009 3:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Rox have ridiculous OF depth right now
Spillborghs, Hawpe, Smith, Fowler, Gonzalez, Murton plus I think they even traded another one in the offseason.
Add in Tulo, Street, Jimenez, and Ianetta and they could be competitive for the West for a few years.
by JopeX37 on Jul 6, 2009 2:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Angels
Joe Saunders, Jered Weaver, Sean Rodriguez, Kendry Morales,Jose Arredondo, Mike Napoli, Erik Aybar, Macier Izturis, (and Brandon Wood)
by Pelferized on Jun 23, 2009 1:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Sureee
The 2009 Texas Rangers offense: sigh...
by Kinslerhomer on Jun 23, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have to agree.
I wouldn’t put them in the top 5, but they’ve got a decent core.
Napoli is insaaaanely underrated. Arredondo’s actually been pitching well; its just that his luck’s been horrendous.
Angels brass is massively mishandling Wood though. Seriously. You’re a contending team. Call Wood up now. Although I wouldn’t really include Maicer Izturis, he’s getting up there in age and he’s not that good.
And, Ervin Santana, despite 2009 being injury-riddled and awful, cannot be given up on.
If Reagins could stop being stupid in the FA market (GMJ, Hunter, etc.), that team could really be powerful.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
by Blicks on Jun 25, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rays
but I want to respond to this first:
Boston – The Sox received a lot of attention that wasn’t focused on the Rays. Guys like Lester, Masterson, and Bucholz are the good young pitchers. Papelbon is old, and Bucholz is overrated. Pedroia, Lowrie and Ellsbury are all pretty good to very good position players. Sorry Sox fans, I think Pedroia and Ellsbury are both overrated as well. Very talented core, but if it was the Mariners with that group, Pedroia never would have won the MVP and they wouldn’t be receiving as much credit in the best young MLB players.
“Papelbon is old”
Fail.
Big time fail all around. Boston is one of the better and more obvious answers, and with good reason. Ellsbury isnt actually overrated – he’s solid, and NO ONE IN BOSTON THINKS ELLSBURY IS A STAR. People are more likely to bitch about him than anything. I seriously dont know a single Sox fan who thinks like people outside Boston assumes Sox fans think about Ellsbury. He’s ok. That’s it. No one is claiming anything more. People need to stop with this. Nobody overrates Ellsbury. NO ONE THINKS ELLSBURY IS AWESOME. Stop. You know another one I hear a lot? People calling Youkilis “the Youker” in a Boston accent. Morons. Ive never once heard this and it sounds retarded. I dont know what people think about Boston fans, but Ellsbury isnt some sort of golden god around here. Pretty much everyone applauded when he was moved out of the leadoff spot. Ask a typical Sox fan to name the best players on the team – they are absolutely not going to say Ellsbury. So I ask you this: Who is it who is “overrating” Jacoby Ellsbury? Got to be ESPN to cause all this vitriol, though I never really see them do it. Of course, I hate ESPN anyway.
Pedroia? That’s another story. He’s a goddamn star level 2B. He plays Gold Glove defense and is an offensive force from 2B. Career wOBA of .361. He won the MVP because the usual candidates all had down years, missed the playoffs or broke their own wrists like imbeciles. You want to hold that against him? Ok, I guess, but he still has put up star level production out of 2B every year. He’s phenomenal. If anything, he might still be underrated by the casual fan, who still can’t get past his height. Dustin Pedroia is a great baseball player. His MVP year is one of the weaker MVP campaigns in recent memory, but he was certainly a legit choice in a strange year. Ive said many times my vote would have gone to Sizemore or ARod… but that’s neither here nor there and I understand – if dont agree with – the “MVP’s only come from playoff teams” argument.
Papelbon? He’s 28 this year. What would you describe that as? “old talent??” When he qualifies he will be the ALL TIME LEADER IN ERA+ with a 255. The next two closest are Mo Rivera with 197 and Pedro with 154.
Look at all this quality home grown pitching:
Papelbon
Lester (one of the best LH starting pitchers in baseball, only 25)
Delcarmen
Masterson (was a top 50 pitching prospect in his own right)
Bowden (ditto)
Buccholz (A year removed from best starting pitching prospect in baseball)
Jed Lowrie is also a very underrated, quality MLB player who the fantasy crowd misses the boat on.
Bottom line, you seem to be looking for reasons for the answer not to be Boston, and that pretty much tells you everything you need to know.
I give the edge to the Rays, who have young star level impact talent unlike anyone else…. but I also tip my hat to the Rangers, A’s Tigers and Orioles. O’s might be second just on the basis of Wieters. For that matter, KC deserves a mention for Greinke and Gordon. Im sort of surprised no one has mentioned Toronto either, with a bunch of good not great young pitchers, Cecil, Lind and Snider. Then there are the Twins. Joe Mauer is only 26. Gomez and Young. Span, I guess (not a fan). Blackburn, Slowey, Baker, Liriano, Perkins, Swarzak, Mijares… damned impressive. Baker and Blackburn are 27, but still… Then there are the Yanks, who have Joba, Hughes, Gardner, Melky, Cano… and Cervelli has impressed but isnt an impact player. His defense has gotten rave reviews.
Id roughly go something like:
1) Rays (Longoria + Upton = ridiculous. Can just stop there, really, but their oldest pitcher is 27 yo James Shields. Garza!)
2) Tigers (Three stud young pitchers and Miggy)
3) Twins (Lots of good young pitching and Mauer. Im also a Delmon fan)
4) Red Sox (Pedroia, Ellsbury, Lowrie and a boatload of young pitching. Should also mention Beckett is only 29, and Dice K only 28…)
5) Orioles (Wieters and Jones are an incredible up the middle core, but all the pitching talent is still in the minors…)
To be honest, this is a tough one though, and the order of my list would probably change depending when you ask me. The Rangers and A’s are a year from cracking the top 5… most of their talent is still in the minors. I do agree that Kurt Suzuki is tremendously underrated.
by alskor on Jun 23, 2009 1:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Look, alskor
I’m not saying that Papelbon and Pedroia are bad players, I just don’t think they deserve all the attention they get, and it definitely is caused by ESPN. As for Papelbon, I made the mistake of calling him old and letting Kinsler count for the Rangers – for not setting a guideline of an age limit or of service time of which players I would include. He’s been around for a while; this is his fifth year. He’s no longer a young, cheap player that I would choose to build my team around.
You’re right about the Twins and Tigers – I completely forgot about Porcello and Verlander when I was thinking about the Tigers. I’m glad it’s invoking discussion though.
by NateHST on Jun 23, 2009 3:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed Paps isn't old.
Its actually kind of funny someone could say that. But is there anyone who talks about himself getting paid more than paps? WTF…
Remember: baseball guys... baseball...
by Metty5 on Jun 23, 2009 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
one correction
Bowden and Buccholz are not currently in MLB so you cant count them.
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Jun 23, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly, I think you could list 3 or 4 good young players from every team and make a case for about half the teams in the league.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jun 23, 2009 4:05 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, you could.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
by Blicks on Jun 25, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not the indians though
the only way you can make the list is if your young players are “good”. Please baseball gods…. make ben fransisco dissapear….
by kershaw_equals_stud on Jun 23, 2009 9:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Dodgers for me
This is a difficult, fluid sort of question, but the young core on the 25-man roster of Kemp, Loney, Martin, Billingsley, Kershaw, and Broxton is my personal favorite (and I’m a Mets fan, so no homer interest here). One thing that’s nice is that all of these guys were drafted by the Dodgers, became big prospects for the team, and so far have kept up that promise.
by aap212 on Jun 23, 2009 9:41 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed...
Logan White strikes out on many of his selections, but he’s also hit some very long home runs….
by wonderphenom on Jun 23, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
agreed.
Ethier is fairly young too? (not looking)
baseball rules.
by doublestix on Jun 23, 2009 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Arizona Is WAAAAY up there
Upton – 21
Parra – 22
Scherzer – 24
Reynolds – 25
Chris Young – 25
Montero – 25
Drew – 26
Jackson – 27
And Haren’s only 28.
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by cwhitman412 on Jun 23, 2009 10:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Young
Since their batting coach made a change to his stance earlier this month he’s been on fire:
.319/.448/.681, 10/11 BB/K ratio, 3 HRs in his last 13 games. Impossibly small sample size to be sure, but considering that the outburst has corresponded with the mechanical change, it at least offers reason for some optimism that he won’t continue to be a .550 OPS player.
by jibs on Jun 23, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I stand corrected
Somewhat. I had started to lose hope considering the stagnation in his first two seasons combined with his downright awful performance this year. But I am rooting for the guy.
by Fanon on Jun 23, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Young...
clearly has the ability to be a very good player. He’s done it before for full seasons. He’s been pretty messed up this year, but there’s every reason for optimism.
by PissedMick on Jun 23, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
gynomastia?
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Jun 23, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Was thinking this when I first looked at the list
Justin Upton alone makes them a HM. Add in some decent other talent and they probably deserve a ranking around 5/6.
by guru4u on Jun 23, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Youth
Assuming we are talking about chances to succeed moving forward—
You have to love the Dodgers, Arizona and Rays..
LAD -
Hitting - Kemp, Ethier, Martin, Loney is a rediculos core.
Pitching - Kershaw, Broxton, Troncosco
Rays -
Hitting - Longoria, Navarro, and Upton
Pitching — Shields, Kazmir, Garza, Price, Niemann
Zona is mentioned directly above.
I think I would take the Rays given their pitching. However, given the money issues, the Dodgers are in the best shape to lock their players up long term.
Remember: baseball guys... baseball...
by Metty5 on Jun 23, 2009 10:22 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well summarized, except...
You can’t talk about the Dodgers and not mention Billingsley.
I also think the money issue between Tampa and LA gets neutralized by the difference in intelligence between the two front offices. I mean, Longoria and Shields are already locked up as ridiculous bargains for a long, long time.
Also, I do think Arizona has been underrated in this thread. While I worry a lot about Young, Drew, etc., Upton is so insanely great that he alone puts them high in the discussion.
by aap212 on Jun 23, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why Not?
He’s the best young hitter in the game and much better than the most overrated young player, Bruce.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Jun 24, 2009 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i was being serious.
i have an Upton shrine in my closet
by daveh33 on Jun 26, 2009 3:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's true.
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by cwhitman412 on Jun 27, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This list could include a lot of teams
some that could be added
O’s: Markakis, Jones, Wieters, Reimold and the pitching will come, also, dont forget Bergesen
nats: Zimm, Zimm #2, detwiler
marlins: ramirez, choglan, johnson
rockies: fowler, stewart, tulo
mariners (maybe) hernandez, lopez
diamondbacks: upton (him alone works lol)
Sliced Bread Is Actually The Best Thing Since Matt Wieters.
by Orioles77 on Jun 24, 2009 9:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I tend to think of young more as in cost controlled players... like guys with at least a two to three years left of team
control.
Just to list some of the Rangers players and what there cost control looks like:
Hamilton: 3 years left b4 FA after this year
Ian Kinsler: I think he has four years left on his contract that he signed voiding his arbitration years plus one or two years of FA
Saltalamacchia: 4 years left
Taylor Teagarden: 5 years
Elvis Andrus: 5 years
Nellie Cruz: 4 years
David Murphy: 3 years? maybe 4
Chris Davis: 5 years
The majority of the Rangers position players have at least 3 years left under team contract with a couple of guys coming up behind them like Justin Smoak and Julio Borbon who will both likely have a starting spot in the lineup sometime next year. Giving them a lineup of likely all cost controlled players outside of Mike Young
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by blalock84 on Jun 24, 2009 9:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Marlins
I think the Marlins deserve more than an honorable mention, based on their rotation alone.
Josh Johnson (25), Chris Volstad (22) , Sean West (23), Ricky Nolasco (26), and Andrew Miller (24) has to be the best young rotation in baseball. Andrew Miller and Nolasco have really turned it around lately, as well.
Throw in the best SS in baseball in Ramirez, Hermida, and Coghlan and I would rank them above everyone except the Rays and the Dodgers. That’s without even mentioning the rising position prospects in Maybin, Stanton, and Morrison.
by bucklin12 on Jun 24, 2009 11:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Your SF Giant list is truncated
For sure you’ve got to add Brian Wilson (2nd full season), Sergio Romo (1st full season), Jonathan Sanchez (2nd full) and Nate Schierholtz (1st full). Also, Merkin Valdez (27 y.o. but only 1st full season) if you want to stretch things.
To put some objectivity into this I think you have to take into account the actual won-loss records of the teams. It’s fine to subjectively say this team or that team has the best young talent based on potential, but since they’re all in the big leagues now potential only goes so far. If Oakland, Baltimore, and Arizona are so loaded, how do you account for their horrendous records? When will all their “great” young players deliver wins? Because of this, my personal rankings would currently be:
1. Dodgers (not even close – and I’m a Giant fan)
2. Rays
3. BoSox
4. Tigers
5. Orioles
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
by Fla-Giant on Jun 25, 2009 3:02 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Won/loss records
I think this is kind of a silly way to do things. The Dodgers, Tigers, Red Sox, for example, each have strong veteran compliments to their young talent. It’s not like it’s just twenty-somethings winning all their games. And a team like the ‘07 Rays had a ridiculous amount of young talent on the major league roster, but the talent was still maturing, so using this argument, their talent wouldn’t have been worth discussing, despite the fact that they were overflowing (and still are).
by Fanon on Jun 25, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The 2007 Rays - really?
So you’re saying that the young talent that played for the 2007 Rays were responsible for their big breakout year in 2008? Let’s see, in 2007 the young talent that played for the Rays included only Sonnanstine, Upton, Howell, Crawford, Baldelli, Zobrist, Shields, and Navarro. Is it your contention that these guys comprised "a ridiculous amount of young talent "? I dont’ think that any but the most biased Rays fans would even have considered them in the top 5 of young talent classes in ‘07. Certainly this talent pool wasn’‘t mainly responsible for the 2008 breakout season. I think your memory is playing tricks on you – you’re thinking that some of the high-impact talent that made the Rays team in ‘08 also played on the ’07 team. Of the ’07 young talent, only Upton and Navarro were above average starters in ’08, while Sonnanstine was a good starter, and Howell and Shields were very good out of the pen. Baldelli rarely played in ’08, Zobrist had only 198 ABs, and Carl Crawford was a statistically below-average LF. The players that were mainly responsible for turning the Rays around were almost all FAs, existing vets, or rookies that didn’t play for the Rays in ‘07. Here’s the list (give or take a name or 2): Longoria, Garza, Pena, Aybar, Price, Bartlett, Cliff Floyd, Wheeler, Balfour, Abreu.
Getting back to my original point, all I was trying to say was that, other things being equal, young talent should be evaluated on results at the big league level. Too often young talent is over-hyped due to their stats in the minors, or the fact that they play for a big market team or any team on the East Coast.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
by Fla-Giant on Jun 25, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You forgot Kazmir
And yes, Kazmir/Upton/Crawford/Howell/Shields is a pretty freakin awesome group.
by demondeaconsbaseball on Jun 28, 2009 1:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure they are now
But that wasn’t my point. Of those 5, only Kazmir, Upton, and Crawford were highly touted outside of Tampa. That’s the key point of this thread – which teams have great young talent in the Majors now. I was pointing out that the ‘07 Rays were not considered to have a wellspring of great young talent at the ML level, back in ’07, by even the most attentive fans. Therefore, Fanon’s example isn’t persuasive IMO. Now if the title of this thread was which team had the best young talent back in 2007, then I think the Rays would be in the top 2 or 3 – knowing what we know now.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
by Fla-Giant on Jun 30, 2009 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In 2007?
James Shields had an ERA of 3.85 and and ERA+ of 117. So that makes one of the best LF defensively in the game, an ace pitcher with more potential, one of the best offensive CF in the league and another stellar pitcher performing at the level of a #2. That’s a pretty darn good group.
Not only that, but they had unrealized talent in Howell, Zobrist and Navarro. So, yeah, I’d say that’s a lot of talent. Was it all realized? Certainly not. But it was certainly there.
by demondeaconsbaseball on Jul 3, 2009 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
howell was given away for joey gathright....
if i recall, zobrist was a throw in on a trade….id say those guys ‘came out of nowhere’
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 3, 2009 3:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Zobrist wasn't a throw-in
If I recall correctly, he was the best prospect in an underwhelming Aubrey Huff deal.
by aap212 on Jul 3, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where does Andrew McCutchen rank on the list of young players in the majors?
I’ve been really impressed with what he’s done so far in his short ML career.
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by OldhamA on Jun 25, 2009 9:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
umm...
When did James Loney become a good player? A first basemen with a sub 400 slugging percentage? And while he is still young hes not super young at 25. Im a rangers fan and if you include where the players are at relative to arbitration, the rangers rank very high on this list but other than that, you have to say the orioles and dbacks are at the top. The Orioles have 3 guys with legit superstar potential and one of those 3 already is a superstar. The Dbacks have Upton, drew, Young, Reynolds among others and Haren isnt exactly old.
As for the Rangers Kinsler, hamilton, Cruz, Andrus, Salty, Holland all have at least 3 more years of team control so at least contract wise they are pretty young(and i know kinslers is an extension) Also if the dodgers can count loney we can count davis since davis is actually as good as if not better than loney.
by CDFAN on Jun 26, 2009 8:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Loney
Would’ve been real solid in the eighties.
by Fanon on Jun 27, 2009 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In Loney's defense...
although his numbers are unimpressive, he does have a knack of delivering the big hit when the Dodgers really need it. His RBI total always exceed what you’d expect from his BA and slugging percentage. Remember his grand slam homer in the playoffs against the Cubs that turned that series around? And, Joe Torre loves his play….
by wonderphenom on Jun 28, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder why Loney is regressing so much
His Age 22/23 seasons were really good, and since then he just hasn’t been that impressive. Any Dodgers fans out there have an explanation?
by thejd44 on Jul 1, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Atlanta has a great young nucleus. Mclouth is also pretty young. They could be very good when they hit there primes (hopefully at the same time)
by Heyward is the next crime dog on Jun 28, 2009 4:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Rays players in their age 27 season or younger:
Navarro
Longoria
Crawford
Upton
Aybar
Brignac
Joyce
Sonnanstine
Niemann
Shields
Kazmir
Price
Garza
Howell
by rglass44 on Jul 6, 2009 12:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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