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Manny Suspended 50 games?

Major League Baseball is expected to announce Thursday that Los Angeles Dodgers outfielder Manny Ramirez has tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs and will be suspended for 50 games, The Los Angeles Times is reporting.

Ramirez's suspension is expected to be announced Thursday, The Times said.

Triple-A outfielder Xavier Paul has been told by the Dodgers that he will be promoted later today, according to The Times.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4148907

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What I really am curious with is

a) What he tested positive for

b) If the reports are true, who prescribed this non-steroid PED for Manny and why.

It’s a damning situation for Manny, and it’ll put him under the microscope, and for the Dodgers, they’ll have to show they can adjust, but I want more information before makiing a judgment.

by toonsterwu on May 7, 2009 12:30 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

All I can say is

I hope that Scott Boras fee is reduced due to the 1/3 salary cut manny will be taking… this is sad

by kershaw_equals_stud on May 7, 2009 12:31 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Don't get too excited

I have my suspicions he’s a user as well.

by joltinjoe on May 7, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My suspicion

is that they’re all users.

by Fanon on May 7, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd be very surprised...

based on the things Pujols has said.

by PissedMick on May 7, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

testing positive

Is the testing better now? As a fan I’d like to be able to assume that the users will eventually test positive. Speculating that every “strong-looking” All-Star is a user is no fun.

by DavidFoss on May 7, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Two things

1) THG had made its rounds for several years before it was even discovered, and no one has claimed that it’s creator was some kind of genius. I’d be surprised if there weren’t other steroids like that out there, still undetectable to the people in charge. There’s too much money in an undetectable steroid for them not to exist.

2) HGH still isn’t tested for, but would qualify as juicing. As long as you’re not dumb enough to order it from some a doctor who’s prescribing it to pretty much every player who wants it in North American sports, it’s pretty safe and easy to acquire.

I’m not pointing a finger at Pujols by any means, I’m just saying we don’t know, and can’t know. Palmeiro was pretty outspoken against steroid use as well, only to be caught juicing himself. I’d like to think that Pujols wasn’t a juicer, but would I be surprised by any means? No.

by Fanon on May 7, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

palmeiro did....

and did it in front of congress under oath no less….

…and pujols defends Barry Bonds every chance he gets. I cant take Pujols as that anti-steroids when he does that.

Fire Hillman

by billybeingbilly on May 7, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Curt Schilling

Schilling did, then said absolutely nothing once under oath.

by Fanon on May 7, 2009 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Frank Thomas.

Frank Thomas has taken the hardest stance against PED use in the game. He even tried, and succeeded, in convincing his fellow 2003 Chicago White Sox to skip their survey tests in order to force drug testing the following season. Management eventually talked the ChiSox out of it.

Frank Thomas’ greatness seems so easily forgotten, but his legacy grows with each of these stories. The most interesting part of all of this is that if Thomas had played before the Steroid Era, we’d have remembered him as a prickly SOB rather than a hero.

by GuyinNY on May 7, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

Thomas has hall-of fame career stats, but also the work ethic and personality to go with it. He is one player in the 90s that you know did not use any artificial enhancement.

by tdot mariner fan on May 7, 2009 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I object

I fail to see the connection between work ethic and a player being clean. Baseball players don’t use steroids so they can work less, they use steroids so they can stay on the field and work more. The gym rats are often juicers. I’m not accusing Thomas of anything, but this hard work equals a clean player meme is getting kind of played.

by Fanon on May 7, 2009 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Objection #2

Personality? Like GuyinNY points out – he was a prickly SOB and that’s putting it lightly.

by slurve on May 8, 2009 7:28 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would be much more shocked...

…if I saw the headline “NFL player takes drug test with own actual urine.”

by aap212 on May 7, 2009 1:02 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

HCG

A masking agent. Will Carroll says Jeff Novitzky is tied into this.

There goes Manny’s legacy. Griffey and Thomas stand taller with each passing day.

by GuyinNY on May 7, 2009 2:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Griffey standing tall? Not without a cane.

by ThomasG on May 7, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It’s also a sexual enchancer.

Maybe he’s trying to put the ram back in ManRam.

by ThomasG on May 7, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

female

The reports I’m reading say that it’s a female fertility drug …

by kosmo99 on May 7, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The sexual enhancer story is BS

Its being circulated by Manny’s friends according to multiple sources

by alskor on May 7, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i love this
Its being circulated by Manny’s friends

it makes this message board feel like 9th grade

by bleedjaxblue on May 10, 2009 4:43 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, that's what Jayson Stark said on ESPN News

That story was damage control from Manny’s camp and has already been debunked.

by alskor on May 10, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gotta Love it!!

Two sources told ESPN’s T.J. Quinn and Mark Fainaru-Wada that the drug used by Ramirez is human chorionic gonadotropin.

According to the story: “HCG is a women’s fertility drug typically used by steroid users to restart their body’s natural testosterone production as they come off a steroid cycle. It is similar to Clomid, the drug Bonds, Giambi and others used as clients of BALCO.” According to the story, male athletes usually use HCG after a cycle of steroids “because steroids often shut down the testosterone-making ability of the testicles. HCG restores their capacity to make testosterone.” HCG may be used by some males in lieu of steroids, according to the source. Ramirez reportedly will not appeal the suspension.

by Summa Slugga on May 7, 2009 3:33 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

+1

A plethora of physical ailments coupled with a complete lack of power following more stringent drug testing?

Smells a little fishy

Who loves orange soda?

by Kenan and Kel on May 8, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow, lets just throw out accusations about people we have zero proof on!

Put this BS in the ridiculous “Hafner tested positive!” thread with all the other clowns.

by alskor on May 8, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Did I hurt your feelings?

Or are you normally an uptight homer?

Who loves orange soda?

by Kenan and Kel on May 8, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Again

They’re all juicers.

by Fanon on May 8, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You would think

We’re past the point where concrete evidence is necessary before one could speculate. My point was Papi, among others, is displaying classic signs of a former roid user. Whether he used or not was never the issue, just that it seems entirely possible he did.

Who loves orange soda?

by Kenan and Kel on May 8, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or...

He’s showing the classic career pattern of a late-blooming unathletic bat-only player.

by aap212 on May 8, 2009 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Whether he used or not was never the issue, just that it seems entirely possible he did."

I don’t know if I can make my point any clearer.

Who loves orange soda?

by Kenan and Kel on May 8, 2009 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1 - Could be one, could be the other

I disagree with blackballing Bonds, A-Rod, and Ramirez because we know they juiced when it seems likely that a lot of other guys juiced and have gotten away with it. The numbers from this era should be looked at as if all the guys juiced.

by Fanon on May 8, 2009 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, thats awfully convenient

I think we should throw a lot of people in jail because it seems likely they commited crimes. Why should we just throw guys in jail that we KNOW committed crimes? Is that really fair to them?

This diminishment thing is crap. Im not ready to throw my hands up in the air and say “Oh! Everybody was juicing, so you cant blame (my favorite player)!” That’s a BS cop out… and its terribly unfair to the guys who didnt juice.

by alskor on May 8, 2009 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The steroid era has been terribly unfair to the guys who didn't juice

And what can we do about it? Hitters going against juicing pitchers, pitchers going against juicing hitters. Cheating has always existed in baseball. PEDs in the form of greenies have been commonplace for decades. Unless baseball wants to have some kind of truth and reconciliation commission, there will never be a solution to this.

by Fanon on May 9, 2009 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So your answer is... random, unfounded accusations

against guys there is no evidence on?

I realize this is the answer for a lot of people on the internet… but its just silly to me. You cannot tell who used steroids without evidence.

by alskor on May 9, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bingo

He’s a big fat guy with no defensive skills. Did people expect a graceful decline?

by alskor on May 8, 2009 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You would think that...

only if you were a huge Yankee homer, actually.

by alskor on May 8, 2009 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

hahah

I’m a Sox fan bro. I just think you need to lighten up a bit.

Don’t let internet banter rile you up

Who loves orange soda?

by Kenan and Kel on May 9, 2009 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's one possible explanation

Maybe I’m just preparing myself for the worst, which I trust you’re accustomed to doing, but his power outage, previous comments regarding PED usage (iirc he admitted to a lack of discretion during the off season in the DR) makes me wonder if Papi’s name is on that list of 103.

Yes it’s purely conjecture but it’s not completely unwarranted as you seem to believe.

Who loves orange soda?

by Kenan and Kel on May 9, 2009 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The quote I was referring to

“"I tell you, I don’t know too much about steroids, but I started listening about steroids when they started to bring that (expletive) up, and I started realizing and getting to know a little bit about it," Ortiz said Sunday. "You’ve got to be careful. . . . I used to buy a protein shake in my country. I don’t do that any more because they don’t have the approval for that here, so I know that, so I’m off of buying things at the GNC back in the Dominican (Republic). But it can happen anytime, it can happen. I don’t know. I don’t know if I drank something in my youth, not knowing it."Reported by Boston Herald”

Who loves orange soda?

by Kenan and Kel on May 9, 2009 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Personally

I think, given the testing regimen, you’d be stupid not to have used steroids as a Latin guy at home during the offseason prior to ’03.

by Fanon on May 9, 2009 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

as a dodger fan....

….disappointed the suspension happened, but COME ON!

wasn’t everybody expecting this?

he had turned into Bonds by the time he was with the Dodgers in every way, shape and form.

when hitters get BETTER in their mid- to late-30s, they’re almost certainly on steroids.

pretty sure 70-90% of hitters would be better as their careers advance, because they have the max pitch recognition at this point. the obvious downside is that, physically, when not juicing, they’re falling apart, so that they’re not even strong enough to get around on e.g., good high and/or inside fastballs. steroids allow older players to keep producing enough testosterone-mimicking products to continue to metabolically sustain muscle masses similar to men in their normal “peaks.”

(for what it’s worth, i think this at phenomena explains another attribute I’ve noticed about hitting versus pitching prospects.: when hitting prospects first make the majors, they rarely make a splash in their first few at bats. even some great hitters — e.g., Ryan Braun — do better after having been through the league once…..in my opinion, because they’re learning what types of pitches they’re going to have to deal with in the majors, and what they have to do with them. the few hitters who are best in the majors right off the bats — e.g., Matt Kemp, Timo Perez — actually have huge holes in their approach that pitchers WILL exploit once they find them. thus the reason for their immediate success versus the minors IS the unfamiliarity of pitchers, versus their unusual — and not necessarily superior — approaches.

in contrast, when pitching prospects debut, they usually have one or two good starts BEFORE having to adjust to the league, because batters have to learn what types of pitches they throw, and what pitches they should lay off. obviously, pitchers have a learning curve too. but, too me, the biggest part of their learning has to do with physically getting to the point where they realize they have to precisely locate secondary and tertiary pitches, or else major leaguers will handle them. once they get to that point, they’re better the younger and more physically talented they are. in contrast, hitters — who have to react to how they’re pitched — will always do better they can read how opposing how opposing pitchers will try to attack them……so long as they are physically capable of countering that attack. which is where steroids come in. for players like Bonds or ManRam who turn into next-level hitters in their mid-30s.)

by bleedjaxblue on May 10, 2009 5:09 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Wow

Long time no see dude. Where you been hiding? :)

I reject your reality and substitute my own.

by WayneCampbell08 on May 12, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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