Price V Hanson

by tt68 on May 22, 2009 9:43 AM EDT Comment 25 comments

Preseason Rankings:

BA - Price #2 and Hanson #4

BP- Price #2 and Hanson #13

JS- Price #1 and Hanson #7 (just among pitchers)

Community List - Price #2 and Hanson#23

Accept for BA it seems the prospectors didn't completely buy in to the ridiculous year Hanson had last year. So far this year here are the stats for the two pitchers:

Price 1-4 3.93ERA 34.1IP 28H 20R 15ER 5HR 18BB 35K's 1.24 GB/FB

Hanson 3-3 1.51ERA 53.2IP 30H 11R 9ER 4HR 15BB 73K's 0.78 GB/FB

Price obviously has last fall's performance in the majors and the playoffs as a huge plus on his side.

Hanson obviously has the superior performance at AAA and he is a full year younger than Price.

I think the more Hanson pitches the murkier the argument that Price is the best pitching prospect in baseball becomes. So I ask....

Poll

If you were a Major League GM and had the choice of David Price or Tommy Hanson, who would you choose to be on your team?

David Price

121 votes

Tommy Hanson

153 votes

274 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs | Comment 25 comments

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Comments

Price

I like Hanson, but if it’s close, I take the potentially dominant lefty more times than not.

by toonsterwu on May 22, 2009 10:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

but if Price’s change was more consistant I’d go with him. Hanson has 4 pitches, 3 that are plus pitches(FB, CB, SL). Price only really has 2 pitches which both are plus pitches but two pitch pitchers are eventually exposed in the ML.

by Jay212033 on May 22, 2009 11:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I'd really like to see a poll of Strasburg v. Price v. Hanson...

But in this poll I’d go Hanson without any second thoughts. Hanson has truly been dominant since starting to mix his slider back in midway through last season…striking out 12+ per 9 IP at each subsequent stop . Price has never really dominated as a professional and I’m beginning to question if he truly has the upside that everyone seemed to assume coming into the season. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to have him and I think he’ll be successful in the majors, but I’m beginning to doubt his ability to be a #1/#2 type pitcher.

The other big thing with Hanson is that he appears to have made progress in his areas of weakness since last season. The two big complaints with him were his propensity to give up walks and HR. Despite moving up a class into a much more HR friendly park, Hanson has actually decreased his HR rate and 3 of the 4 he’s given up came in one game. Walk wise, he’s really taken a big step forward this season, going from a BB rate of 3.8 to 2.5. He’s constantly getting ahead early in the count and keeping his pitch counts down so he can work deeper into games.

by nixa37 on May 22, 2009 11:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I thought about throwing him in there...

But I specifically liked the comparison of these two because they have some legitimate data to use in comparing them.

by tt68 on May 22, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Surprised

I am surprised that it is as close as it is….I still haven’t voted I was waiting to hear some of the discussion. If it were from a fantasy perspective I would take Hanson hands down. I think he will strike out more batters and he is not in the AL East.

But from a baseball perspective I am not as sure. Price seems to be a gamer and has held up better under pressure, but very few people with the type of hype that Hanson has had actually exceed the expectations when they move up. His season this year reminds me a lot of Lincecum a few years ago.

by tt68 on May 22, 2009 11:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

gamer

who do you think is a better pitcher, AL East or no, and how do you know hanson won’t hold up to pressure as well as Price? From the World Series (well, I guess that is the ultimate for a ballplayer)? I think Hanson got less hype than Price, even after the AFL last year. Price certainly was ranked more highly.

by wobatus on May 22, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The AL East comment only applies from a fantasy perspective...

I also should not have said that Price holds up “better” under pressure. We have no data on Hanson to compare to. It should be that Price has proven(albeit in a small sample) that he can rise to the challenge, where as Hanson has not been given that opportunity yet.

by tt68 on May 22, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Um. A few things

You got to take a look at the whole picture here. You can’t base a decision like this off of Top 100 lists and a two month sample size.

While Hanson is having the better season right now, their career stat lines are relatively close. Plus we saw what Price can do against major league pitching already.

Yes Hanson may have more quality pitches, but from what I’ve seen of Price and heard of Hanson, his best stuff is better than Hanson’s best.

Finally, it is worth noting that Price was sent back to AAA to work on his change-up and attempt to learn a new pitch (spike/knuckle curve), thus inflating his numbers to a certain extent. He has also been a on a strict pitch count, which Hanson has not been on.

I take Price in the Long Run.

by BigBadBossman on May 22, 2009 1:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I'm not so sure about that

On your point that Price’s best is better than Hanson’s best. Hanson has a great fastball with a lot of movement and for most of his career, dominated with his great curve and a slightly below average (I’ve heard it’s become more of an average and usable pitch now) change. The thing is that he wasn’t even allowed to throw his best pitch, his slider. The thing is just downright filthy and the comps to Smoltz’s slider are for real (and if you’ve watched a lot of Smoltz, you know what a compliment that is). What set Hanson below Price is that he isn’t a lefty and didn’t have as good command but his command problems are no longer a big issue. It’s VERY close right now which is great for both organizations. Going to be fun to watch both of these pitchers’ careers.

by was385 on May 22, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

major league hitting

Price has 19 innings against major league hitting, including the playoffs. he pitched well, but it isn’t a hell of a lot to go on.

Don’t get me wrong. I voted for Hanson, but it is close in my mind and not really positive who I would rather have. And likely some major league success does weigh in the balance.

A knuckle curve? Interesting. Who had the best knuckle curve? Burt Hooten?

by wobatus on May 22, 2009 1:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Probably

I think Hooten had the most success with.

Currently Mussina and C. Lee (I think) as well as some others throw a similar pitch.

I think it’s the same pitch J.P. Howell uses as well, so the Rays farm system may teach it. Not too sure.

Aside from his MLB success and his ability to throw under pressure, I think Price’s minor league stats compare favorably to Hanson’s as well. The fact that Hanson is one year younger doesn’t really mean that much too me as Price was dominating at Vandy at the same age.

What was Hanson’s track record? Was he college pitcher or HS prospect. I’m a Rays homer so I obviously lack some objectivity. Even so, I still think I take Price (fan or not).

by BigBadBossman on May 22, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hanson was a JC guy

The Braves love JC guys, and Hanson’s been one of their best. He was also a draft-and-follow, IIRC, another favorite tactic for the Braves until it stopped being an option with the new signing deadline. Hanson had moderate success and was on prospect radars for a while but really exploded onto the scene last year after a late surge in 2007 had turned some heads. As mentioned above, his best pitch prior to pro ball was his slider, and the Braves didn’t let him throw it until around June of last year. IIRC, his first day out with it was the no-hitter. He’s got 3 plus off-speed pitches, though the change is probably the weakest/least consistent, and his FB is nothing to sneeze at.

I went with Price in the pole because I still think he’s got more upside than Hanson and I haven’t changed that opinion based on the AAA performances of the two players. But with that said, it’s extremely close. I can’t wait for the Braves to call this kid up. The “Ideal World” Braves rotation in October (Lowe, Vazquez, Hudson, Hanson, Jurrjens) is right up there with the Rays and Red Sox for best in baseball. Or I guess I mean “Ideal World” baseball. ;-) Fun to dream on, anyways.

by mraver on May 22, 2009 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mussina

Has to be the owner of the best knuckle-curve in history.

by PissedMick on May 23, 2009 2:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hanson

If Hanson had the first-round pedigree that Price had this wouldn’t even be an argument. He’s a year younger, and his performance record dominates Price’s. There’s no way Price could have done what Hanson did to the AFL. Price has never hung the gaudy K numbers that Hanson has up, and Hanson just has more big league pitches at this point.

Tommy Hanson 4 ROY

by timmy3 on May 23, 2009 2:47 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

You must have missed, oh I dunno, the AMERICAN LEAGUE CHAMPIONSHIP SERIES last year. Because Price dominated major leaguers in the biggest pressure situation possible. So i wouldn’t say that there is “no way” Price could have done what Hanson did.

“If Hanson had the first-round pedigree that Price had this wouldn’t even be an argument. He’s a year younger, and his performance record dominates Price’s. There’s no way Price could have done what Hanson did to the AFL. Price has never hung the gaudy K numbers that Hanson has up, and Hanson just has more big league pitches at this point.”

by loop on May 23, 2009 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Tommy could go to the bullpen right now and be arguably the best closer in the game. But why would the Braves want that?

Relief pitching is a lot easier than starting. You can talk all you want about pressure situations, but the fact is Price is a guy with two really good pitches and he has command of them. Of course he was going to get lefties out in the playoffs! Doesn’t change the fact that Tommy has one more plus pitch than him, better stats, and is a year younger…

Tommy Hanson 4 ROY

by timmy3 on May 23, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And Hanson’s AFL performance is simply un-matched. The league average ERA is like 5.75 out there, and he hung a 0.51 ERA on the league. Sure it’s a pretty small sample size, but so was Price’s playoff performance, and Hanson completely Strasburg’d the competition there. He was just unhittable.

Tommy Hanson 4 ROY

by timmy3 on May 23, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're a little off there pal....

I find it more than a little absurd that you can trivialize a performance MLB PLAYOFFS and glorify one in the Arizona Fall League to the extent that you do. You have a point in saying that Hanson is a year younger, but that shouldn’t be a deciding factor.

You say look at the statistics? OK. Hanson as better strike out numbers, yes, but Price has had a better GB ratio and a lower FIP throughout his Career. Assume that you throw out the first half of this year for Price, largely because Price has been working perfecting his change-up (which was better than his slider during spring training) and attempting to learn a 4th pitch, the statistics state in the original post are moot. By the way, in Price’s last start, a start where he abandoned the 4th pitch, he didn’t yield a single hit and struck out 9 through 6 innings.

You also have to factor in that Hanson also hasn’t been rushed the way Price has, Hanson spending a full year in A+ and nearly an entire year in AA, while in prices first full season he was up pitching in the MLB! Finally, in an attempt to save his arm, Price has been on a STRICT pitch count, not going over 80 pitches in his starts this season.

To say that Price is simply a product of a first round pedigree is lunacy. The dude can flat out pitch, and even if Price was taken in the 3rd round, the argument would be very close. I’d still take Price frankly.

You can disagree with me all you want. It doesn’t matter because Price is getting the call this Monday and will most likely pitch against the Indians. So we will see who is right soon enough.

by BigBadBossman on May 23, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

How many pitchers have come in and dominated in their first handful of innings in the majors?

How many AFL pitchers have pitched like Hanson did in the AFL?

The answer to the last question is one. Forget the part where he was really just there to work on his changeup, because the alibi is unnecessary. That’s all I’m saying.

You talk about how Price has been hurt by being rushed, well that’s the disadvantage to entering pro ball as late as he did. The fact is, Hanson is still a full year younger than him.

You mention how Price has been hurt by working on a fourth pitch this year, Hanson already has four big-league ready pitches. The stats aren’t moot, two pitchers are pitching at the same level, and one is head-and-shoulders more effective than the other.

Hanson’s rate stats are unreal, 12.2 K/9, 2.5 BB/9, 5.0 H/9. Basically, Braves fans are un-impressed by this guy’s outings if he gives up more than 3-4 base runners and doesn’t whiff more than a batter an inning. Those are the bad nights for him.

The argument is very close, but I just really like Hanson; and he’s still getting better. The fact that he’s made real strides in his control, cutting down on walks is only going to make him better. Price is a pretty amazing lefty, but even you admit that the secondary stuff isn’t all there yet. I just like Hanson’s chances of being an ace more than Price’s. I think with either of these guys their floor is probably still a good #3, or average #2 though so it’s hard to go wrong with either.

Tommy Hanson 4 ROY

by timmy3 on May 23, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Alright, we're obviously both pretty stuborn and not going to sway one another's opinions but...

1. Price has never pitched in the AFL and while what Hanson did was most impressive, you can’t coun’t that against Price.

2. I never said price has been “hurt” by being rushed, but given more time in A+ and AA he would no doubt have gaudier numbers. Yes Hanson is 1 year younger, but in terms of time pitched in the minor leagues, Hanson has Price by one year. He’s been in the league longer than Price is what I’m getting at.

3. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. I take Price’s 3 pitches of Hansons 4. Price’s fastball from what I’ve seen and read is better than Hanson’s and Price can locate it better.

4. Yes they are at the same level right now, but not only is Price working on alternate pitches, its an extremely small sample size to go off of.

5. Agree with your last paragraph. It is very close and both should be good/great MLB pitchers.

by BigBadBossman on May 23, 2009 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You have to understand, I’m also biased as hell. But as a Braves fan, I don’t think I would want them to trade Hanson straight up for any other minor league or amateur pitcher out there.

Tommy Hanson 4 ROY

by timmy3 on May 24, 2009 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"Tommy could go to the bullpen right now and be arguably the best closer in the game. But why would the Braves want that?"

Oh, that’s just too funny.

by PissedMick on May 23, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Closers are over-rated.

Tommy’s FB/SL/CB mix would put him into pretty rarified company as closer. If he were in a role like that you’re talking about somebody coming in throwing 97 with lots of life, and just as spectacular off-speed stuff. I think the Smoltz comp would be appropriate for what it would look like. Tommy generally isn’t a good first inning pitcher, and it’s not even an idea. But it’s a lot easier for a pitcher to come in and get three outs than to come in and get 20+.

Just like K-Rod could probably never get past the 3rd inning as a starter. The men from the boys are separated from how you do against big-league pitching the second time around the order.

Tommy Hanson 4 ROY

by timmy3 on May 23, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hanson

Had to vote for Hanson, but then I am biased. You have to like the way that he has respnded to little things (which might bother other players) such as the promotion of Medlen ahead of him.

Obviously, any team would be luck to have either….

by Stephen in the UAE on May 23, 2009 6:14 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

It's foolish to discount Price's pedigree

The guy dominated college baseball in one of the best conferences in the entire country. You don’t do that without being an extremely talented young pitcher. He’s also a lefty that can touch 98 MPH with his heater, one that has movement away from right handers, and a plus slider in the mid-high 80s.

Hanson has better minor league numbers and is younger, but age in pitchers is overrated and numbers don’t always tell the whole story. There’s a number of prospects that have had ‘meh’ minor league numbers that have gone on to stardom in the major leagues.

Hello.

by killa3312 on May 23, 2009 2:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs