Should Anderson and Cahill be sent down?
by DJSlam on May 17, 2009 5:56 PM EDT
Email
PrintSo here we are a month and a half into the major league careers of Brett Anderson and Trevor Cahill of the A's, and for the most part, it hasn't been pretty. Since both are 21 and never had much experience in AA or beyond, I've always felt they needed more time in the minors. The numbers thus far seem to agree with me.
Brett Anderson:
6 GS 0-4 31.1 IP 39 H 11 BB 21 ER 5 HR 15 K 6.03 ERA 1.60 WHIP .289 BAA
Trevor Cahill (after today's start)
8 GS 2-3 41.1 IP 46 H 22 BB 23 ER 6 HR 14 K 5.01 ERA 1.65 WHIP .269 BAA (+ today's 7 H in 2.1 innings).
I'm not sure what they plan to do with them either way since both should be on an IP restriction. At this point, should they just leave them out there to keep taking their lumps, or send them down to the minors to get more seasoning which seems to be needed?
31 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Not sure if this counts for anything but
Mark Mulder in his first year had a 5.44 ERA and 191 hits in just over 150 innings. The next year he won 21 games with a sub 4 ERA. Maybe it is good that they are getting their feet wet their first year. I mean, it is only a month into the season.
Re: Mulder
To be fair, Mulder was at least a year older in his debut year at 22 and turned 23 midway through that year. Cahill and Anderson have just recently turned 21.
Doesn't that only prove my point
They have similar numbers to a more mature Mulder. Such a struggle in the first year is expected no matter if you are young high school starter or a polished college lefty.
by asyouwish33 on May 18, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Well....
There is no guarantee that after getting beating around for a couple of years in the majors, Cahill and Anderson will suddenly start getting it. For all we know, this could be detrimental to their future success. I mean, getting pounded like this can’t be easy for a young kid to take in his first shot in the majors.
In addition, I don’t think it’s fair to say they have similar numbers. Cahill’s K/9, BB/9, and K/BB ratio are all a lot worse than Mulder’s. In addition, Mulder was 2nd in the Cy Young voting in his 2nd year in the league. I don’t think it’s an accurate projection for any player to replicate those results.
Mulder was also a pitcher out of college compared to Cahill out of HS.
My point was
that we can’t judge a player after 8 starts as the post suggests. Sure Cahill and Anderson will have their ups and downs this year, but experience at the major league level with their stuff will probably only help them. Cahill, as has been mentioned below, had three good starts prior to this one (facing the Tigers in Detroit isn’t easy).
I’m not suggesting that they will replicate Mulder’s numbers next year, I am merely suggesting that we wait until say July to decide if this was a terrible move or a necessary one.
as a side note
I have no idea where I picked up this idea from, but I feel like if Cahill is getting his control under wraps, that would be a very positive sign. I feel like that, for a young pitcher, particularly like Cahill, getting control is a way to show their ability to learn how to pitch at the level, rather than trying to dominate just on their stuff.
again, no idea where I picked this idea from, and it can probably be picked to death.
They rolled the hard six
The plan wasn’t bad … add some bats, let the young kids ride and get their feet wet, try and build a strong pen and hope for some luck. I admit, I haven’t followed them that closely, but the A’s dove from the deep end. There’s a fine line in working with young pitchers, and I don’t claim to know it. I just think that, they took that dive, they might as well give it a little more time. Again, haven’t followed that closely, but Cahill’s command seems to have tightened up a bit, and Anderson has shown some flashes. Now, if they are tumbling at the end of the month, I’d say make the move, but give it a couple more weeks.
I think the plan was terrible
And arguably (mostly depending on the future) Beane’s worst decision in his entire GM career (even worse than the Chavez deal, which was a great deal at the time).
Anderson and Cahill were clearly not ready, and nobody in their right mind could’ve argued they would be significantly better than the replacement options (Edgar Gonzalez, Jerome Williams, etc.). They were uncharacteristically rushed, especially Cahill, and it’s turning out as bad as I thought it would.
Now I worry how sending them down will affect their development.
by thejd44 on May 18, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll admit I haven't followed the A's as much so
honest question, has it been that bad? That horrendously bad?
Leaving aside the question of how good the plan is (my initial comments made it sound like I was fully on board with it – I should add that I just thought it wasn’t a bad plan … didn’t mean I thought it was a good one), I look at Cahill’s numbers and the snippets that can be read, and it seems like he’s getting better.
Re: Getting better
Just look at the least start from each player. Does that really make it seem like they are getting better?
well
for me, I’m not going to look at the last start for a rookie pitcher, particularly one that was rushed, and make a judgment on trends solely based on that. To each their own.
I’m looking at Cahill’s last 4 starts, and 3 out of the 4 look solid. Improved control, going deeper into the game, and well, 3 wins don’t hurt. A few more bad starts, and sure the trend would be spun on it’s head, but for me, the overall recent trend for Cahill was rather positive and suggested he was getting better.
How was Cahill a top 10 prospect?
Yes I know he dominated levels at a very young age, but his stuff is not front of the rotation caliber. Makes me wonder how the hell a guy like him can rank above a guy like Hanson, Tillman, Feliz, or Holland.
The numbers say a lot but I always felt Cahill got by with advanced feel for pitching than great stuff. Anderson similarly. Not saying these guys won’t be good pitchers. But not elite prospects in my mind. I am glad I traded Cahill for Hanson last year.
Now people will go apeshit. Yeah I know he is a sinker baller. But seriously, he was way overhyped in the first place. The stuff didnt match the numbers.
Derrek Lowe's stuff isn't phenominal
I can say the same for Zambrano and any successful pitcher that was under Dave Duncan’s magnifying glass. They’re all sinker ballers. They don’t go out and get strikeouts they’re smart and pitch to contact.
I for one like Cahill, he has sound mechanics and gets outs. Excluding today’s start his era was 3.86… That’s the only stat I could remember from when I checked his stat page : ) . He’s solid, keep him up.
Get Peavy already! I want my #44 jersey!
anderson i think will be fine staying up
cahill idk
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
No and No
Honestly Anderson’s been holding his own, outside of some bad luck, and Cahill’s doing OK.
They shouldn’t have been brought up but honestly I don’t see the point in sending them down now.
I have the same feeling
I never thought bringing them up was a good idea, but it probably wouldn’t be a good idea to send them back down. Maybe they should have started them out in the bullpen and then have them work their way into the rotation…
I am like your Dan Aykroyd and biglow would be Jane, the ignorant slut. -Chad
Also must be noted that
Cahill and Anderson are facing batters for the first time, so a struggle in the beginning is expected, but their stuff looks pretty good. Still amazes me that these guys are only 21!
i agree with some of you
everyone expects pitchers to come up and pitch like Dontrelle Willis did his rookie year. That’s the exception, not the rule. Most young arms struggle initially. I think Cahill is doing a fantastic job of limiting damage even though he’s not striking guys out and he’s walking a bunch of them. I think that will only help him in his development through this year and into next, assuming he can harness his control a bit. If you go in expecting anything but struggles from a rookie pitcher, you’re setting the bar way too high in the first place. Cahill has quality major league stuff, especially his sinker. I wouldn’t go putting all my eggs in Tommy Hanson’s basket either. Dude is a fly ball pitcher who is blowing away AAA hitters with his heat. It won’t be as easy in the big leagues, trust me. I know he has good stuff, but he’ll probably struggle just like the rest of them. Of course there’s always exceptions, but understand that they are just that, exceptions.
Re: Your points
If Cahill truly needed to harness his control, which is blatantly obvious, why can’t he be doing this in AA in a more fostering environment to this type of thing? He was brought onto an A’s team who basically have a mandate that they must win this year, which is not very conducive to learning on the job. Nobody is expecting him to be an ace immediately, but when you are walking a guy every other inning, there is a problem.
As for Hanson, to say he is just blowing people away with heat is simply not the case. He also has a plus curve ball which he mixes in to freeze hitters. Besides, AAA is made up of major league ready guys, it’s not like this is the independent leagues. He also fared very well in spring training against major league teams.
A 21 year old needs to be better than replacement when you put him in the rotation
Or there’s no point in putting him there. I’d much rather my bad pitchers do poorly than the same fate for my exciting young prospects. There’s just so much more to lose when those guys fail, and I don’t see how anybody could’ve seen anything but exactly what’s happening now.
by thejd44 on May 18, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
Very well put. It would be a different story if they had already proven themselves at AAA. If that were the case, then you might as well let them take their lumps in the majors. These guys clearly weren’t ready. That being said, whether or not they should be sent down sort of depends on what Beane’s goals are this year. If he still thinks this team has a shot at the playoffs, then I think he should send them down with clear instructions on what he wants them to work on. On the other hand, if he’s willing to accept that the A’s likely aren’t going to get much better this year, then he might as well keep them up and let them work through their struggles. Of course, if that’s the case, he should also trade Holliday and release Giambi and Nomar, and give as much playing time as possible to Buck, Barton, and maybe even Doolittle.
I think they're both performing as 21 year old rookies are going to perform
Sending them down for a while would extend the A’s control over them and help in the long run, as well as letting them work on things. The only problem is, the A’s don’t have a lot of help right now. Gio could help, but he’s been just as erratic in the minors as he was in the majors last year. There’s Mazzaro, but that’s just replacing one rookie with another, not-as-talented rookie. And after that it’s just Dan Geise and Edgar Gonzalez.
So sending them down would help the players but probably not the A’s.
I've been disappointed with gallagher
big fan of his as he came up, thought this was his year to take a step forward and show that he deserves to a long term rotation option. I don’t really like him that much for the pen, although if he adjusts, he could be solid. But sure seems like he wasn’t prepared this year, for one reason or another.
Cahill's control is just awful. 22 BBs and 14 Ks? Seroiusly?
Send him down, tell him to throw strikes all the time, then give him another chance. Anderson’s K/BB is at least over 1 and near 1.5. His case depends on what the other options are.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
Anderson
He’s been a little better than the raw data shows. He’s in a brutal league, of course: versus Boston, at New York, at Texas, and versus Anaheim is a tough four-start stretch. He has a problem with the big inning, obviously. He’s missing bats a little less often than I thought he would. His slurve has looked good when I’ve seen him throw, but he’s been pretty hittable overall. He does have two pretty quality starts though, probably against the best two lineups in the AL: 7 IP, 5 H, 2 ER, 2 BB, 5 K vs. Boston on 4/15 and 5 IP, 3 H, 1 ER, 2 BB, 5 K at Texas on 4/28.
by richieabernathy on May 18, 2009 6:30 PM EDT reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
