Is Jeff Francoeur playing his way out of the Majors
by Bravesin07 on May 16, 2009 10:15 PM EDT
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This guy is hitting .254 with an OBP of .274 and a slugging % of less than .380. This guy is arguable one of the worst players in baseball and shouldn't be starting for any contending team. I am a huge Braves fan and I can't wait until he is gone. I think Heyward right now would do better than him because Heyward somewhat knows the strikezone, something Francoeur doesn't. I don't care if he changed his swing because it isn't working. This guy is on pace to walk 24 times this year and since he doesn't steal bases he is worthless. I think this guy is the next Ben Grieve or Marty Cordova.
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Change of scenery
He’s still young and has immense physical talents, including the gun for an arm and otherworldly bat speed. I know the Braves are his hometown team, but I think he might do well going elsewhere and getting a different opinion. Maybe if he could work with Jaramillo for an extended period of time he could figure his swing out. Clearly the guys in Atlanta aren’t getting through to him though.
by Fanon on May 16, 2009 10:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Guffaw
Francoeur does not have “otherworldly” batspeed. Quite the opposite in fact. A big part of his terrible plate discipline comes from the fact that he has to start his bat so early to catch up to fastballs, leaving him with little time to gauge what is coming.
by aCone419 on May 17, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He does have...
the Braves’ fastest HR speed off the bat this year, at 110 mph. Maybe his reactions aren’t that quick, but his bat speed doesn’t seem to be a problem.
by PissedMick on May 19, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a sample size of 3.
And an indirect measurement, to boot.
by aCone419 on May 20, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's as direct a measurement of bat speed as you're going to find.
And sample size doesn’t matter when you’re measuring a skill. Do you not count Nate Robinson’s 43" vertical leap if you only see it once? The skill is there. If you can’t jump 43", or swing the bat at 110 mph, it doesn’t matter how small a sample is.
Point is, he’s got a lot of problems, but slow bat speed isn’t one of them. Go ahead and change your argument to “reaction speed”, and you won’t miss a beat. It was a little early for that guffaw.
by PissedMick on May 20, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think if the Braves have a losing record, they should clean out the managing staff
I think Bobby Cox has hung on too long down there and they need new personnal. Pendleton should have been fired a long time ago,
by Bravesin07 on May 16, 2009 11:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You continue to baffle me
They guy wins division title for a decade and then when the Mets and Phils FINALLY get their act together, it’s time to ship him off. You are in serious need of a mental filter.
by slurve on May 17, 2009 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You would be surprised at just how many Brave fans are extremely upset with Cox and his coaching staff and have been since we failed to win the division title in 2006. Most say they have been upset with him for years (I can imagine some of them have been because he has his faults like everyone) but I think the majority of the fan base got used to winning. I’m convinced JS stepped down because he knew tough times were ahead (just like he left KC) and made it worse by selling the farm for rentals. Cox is doing what he can with what he is has been given, I don’t hink he has lost the players yet so am fine with him staying.
by jfish26101 on May 17, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Cox
Braves fan here. From the fans point of view, we have become a little tired of his constant love for platoons, tireless patience for certain players, running bullpen arms into the ground, etc. However, if you ask any player, they love to play for the man. I’m not sure what a different manager could get out of this team. One thing I will say, Terry Pendleton needs to go. You know when your best players, including Chipper, McCann and Andruw won’t listen to you, you aren’t helping anything.
by DJSlam on May 17, 2009 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The BP isn’t really his problem, pretty much all of them had a history of injuries before being brought to Atlanta. As far as platoons and patience for players, it worked in the past and the fans weren’t so quick to jump ship. Bottom line is the team stopped winning and a lot of the fans have never seen losing so don’t know how to take it. If they want to shake things up, whatever but Cox is still a very good manager and I’d bet most clubs in the majors would welcome him to their staff in a heartbeat.
by jfish26101 on May 17, 2009 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are plenty of reasons to keep Cox
But he’s a horrible tactical manager. Though in fairness, so are most of the other ones.
by mraver on May 18, 2009 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
his arm
i’m tired of people using that as an excuse. i don’t have the numbers, but how often does that meaningfully impact a game?
by son.of.sourman on May 16, 2009 11:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I remember Bill James arguing
that Lee Mazzilli was an effective player (speed, defense, batting average, OBP, moderate power) and yet the New York fans and media were exceptionally hard on him because of his noodle throwing arm — something that James said couldn’t possibly cost you more than a dozen runs a year (if I recall correctly). That makes sense to me, but I’m sure there’s been a more thorough study of it since James wrote that … almost 30 years ago now, in 1980 or so. Oh my God, that’s my “how much have I aged?” moment of the month.
by Flynn Blake on May 17, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Careful what you say about Heyward
Don’t get me wrong, the guy is a fantastic prospect. But don’t joke about what a guy could do in the majors right now, because calling up a physically gifted outfielder way too early is part of what got the Braves where they are with Francoeur now.
by aap212 on May 17, 2009 1:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He's clueless
He has no plate discipline, and he either doesn’t get it or doesn’t want to get it.
“If on-base percentage is so important, then why don’t they put it up on the scoreboard?” Francoeur says.
lol right there, tells you all you need.
by Southwest on May 17, 2009 3:47 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Funny part is
Most scoreboards, including the one in Atlanta, have OBP on it. And most televised games show OBP when a guy comes to bat.
by thejd44 on May 17, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
aside from his arm
Frenchie sucks, there’s no two ways about it. I don’t know why the Braves insist on giving him playing time, at MOST Frenchie should be a pinch-hitter, defensive sub. Like Travis Ishikawa of the Giants, its about time they admit to themselves they don’t have a real player there…..
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by feslenraster on May 17, 2009 8:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Brandon Jones
also deserves a shot at playing time. Ideally, the Braves would drop the idea of Garret Anderson playing everyday.
by jar75 on May 17, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re
He’s clearly one of, if not the most outastic players in the bigs. He’s Juan Pierre without the speed (or ability to walk…or slugging percent lol). I think they need to start him over in A-Ball and let him torch some bad pitchers for a while. Slowly bring him back up…
by Dfarth on May 17, 2009 10:45 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Translation
He’s Rey Ordonez without the lack of a major league job.
http://www.chop-n-change.com
by alexwithclass on May 18, 2009 8:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nothing is going to change. The fact that he had so much success so soon probably has his mind warped that he’s got it all figured out and no matter what anyone tells him, he thinks he’s going to get back to that magical summer where he came up and raked. He’s not. I loved Franceour and I still think he could make something out of himself, he has a ton of athletic ability, but he needs to just start over. Simply put, he needs to re-learn how to approach hitting and his entire outlook on it.
by loop on May 17, 2009 11:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Francoeur
Francoeur has been a bad major leaguer for about two years now. Grieve was at least a valuable major leaguer for about four or five seasons.
by DeJay on May 17, 2009 11:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Right now, Francoeur is a platoon OF v LHP and nothing more. Most of his very poor OPS is made up of mashing lefties, so at least he has some value.
With that said, in 12 years of watching baseball regularly, I have never, ever, seen someone behind in the count as often as he is. I don’t think I’ve watched more than 5 AB’s this year where he wasn’t down 0-1 in the count. It is astounding.
At the beginning of the year, I felt like Francoeur’s cutting his K’s actually killed his power. His plate recognition is terrible, though. I think the guy needs a new team, badly.
by WrenFGun on May 17, 2009 2:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The weird part is that there's a whole school of thought that he's "back to being good"
because he has RBIs or something. Not only is he not good, he never really was that good.
by thejd44 on May 17, 2009 5:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Let's be a bit more cautious
In 2005, he was very good. He was 21 and showed very solid power in the major leagues, and didn’t strike out too much, and used a nice BABIP to show a solid batting average and excellent OPS. Oddly, though his plate control has improved since then, and dramatically so this year, his power has simply dissipated, I kind of want to compare him in this way to Delmon Young. We normally assume that a 21 year old’s power will at least persist, if not dramatically improve as he moves into his prime. In both of their cases, however, that has simply not been the case.
What makes this more interesting is that his LD% is still quite high – I still don’t entirely trust those numbers, especially in this case where they jive not at all with any of his other statistics, but it’s still a tantalizing factoid that perhaps he hasn’t forgotten how to hit the ball hard.
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by OldProspects on May 18, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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