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Trevor Cahill's First Start...

Anybody catch Cahill's major league debut vs Anaheim? I see he had 5 walks and only 1 strikeout, which are both pretty bad, but interested in hearing how he looked otherwise.  What was his velocity?  The break on his pitches? His secondary stuff? I live on the east coast and didn't get a chance to see the game.  I tried to go on Oakland message boards but they weren't talking about the game, just crying about last year and a bunch of other crybaby crap

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I caught some of it

Apart from the control problems, he seemed to be getting hit pretty hard, although he was able to limit the damage. He also almost decapitated Vlad with a couple pitches.

Chalk it up to nerves and I think the next few starts will tell us a lot more.

by dkdc on Apr 8, 2009 1:06 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Watched all of Cahill's pitching.

Very very erratic. Couldn’t figure out where the strike zone was. Angels were getting some good shots in against him. He didn’t look to great today even though he only allowed 2 runs.

by lackey41 on Apr 8, 2009 1:11 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Not a bad start

All things considered – 1st MLB start, 2nd Game of Season, Age 21, Pitching in front of family and friends near hometown…

He was very erratic, but a lot of that was nerves and how much movement was on his pitches. He probably threw 95% fastballs.

by Colorado Fan on Apr 8, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He probably threw 95% fastballs.

A poster on this site broke it down and posted the link below: http://minorleaguenotebook.com/2009/04/08/trevor-cahill-debuts-with-pitch-fx/

Suffice to say, he didnt stick to his fastball.

by alskor on Apr 8, 2009 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was underwhelmed

His stuff didnt look that great. His velocity wasnt impressive. I watched tonight’s start and last week’s ST start… he looked about the same in each. Looks like more of a sinkerballer than a strikeout pitcher. He was a bit erratic, especially with his secondary offerings. Went through lots of stretches where he lost his fastball, too.

MLB GD has his average fastball velocity as 89.7mph.

I wouldnt draw any conclusions yet. Could just be nerves or a billion other things… but certainly looks like he could have used some more seasoning…

by alskor on Apr 8, 2009 1:15 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

90MPH Sinkers are pretty good.

Thing I noticed was he didnt throw many knuckle curves or change ups. If he throws strikes I dont seem to many fly balls coming off batters bats. Kid shouldnt even be up.

"Their Triple-A rotation, led by Trevor Cahill and Brett Anderson, could be better than some big-league rotations; Michael Ynoa is the best Latin American prospect of the decade; 2008 draftees Jemile Weeks and Rashun Dixon bring much-needed tools to an advanced group of hitters." - BaseballProspectus.com

by Syphon on Apr 8, 2009 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was a decent pitch

but that wasnt what Cahill has been advertised as…

From BP:

Cahill combines above-average stuff with outstanding polish. His power sinker is the best in the system; it sits in the low 90s, gets up to 95 mph, and is a very difficult pitch for batters to get any lift on (if they can make any contact at all). He backs that up with a plus-plus hard curveball that he’ll throw at any point in the count, as well as a decent changeup and a slider that he mixes in to keep hitters even more off balance.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=8551

There was nothing swing and miss about his stuff. He really looked like a kid who wasnt ready for MLB quite yet. Nearly as many balls as strikes… 7 GB and 9 FB. 1 K and 5 BB. Its a good thing he was facing the Angels, because if he keeps pitching like this he is going to get torched by a more patient, better hitting team.

He looks like a rookie who has no feel for his pitches right now.

by alskor on Apr 8, 2009 1:51 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He was throwing his 4 seam FB at 94 in the srping.

but ive always seen his sinker 88-91.

"Their Triple-A rotation, led by Trevor Cahill and Brett Anderson, could be better than some big-league rotations; Michael Ynoa is the best Latin American prospect of the decade; 2008 draftees Jemile Weeks and Rashun Dixon bring much-needed tools to an advanced group of hitters." - BaseballProspectus.com

by Syphon on Apr 8, 2009 2:18 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also he was getting a good amount of swings and misses..

just wasnt on strike 3.

"Their Triple-A rotation, led by Trevor Cahill and Brett Anderson, could be better than some big-league rotations; Michael Ynoa is the best Latin American prospect of the decade; 2008 draftees Jemile Weeks and Rashun Dixon bring much-needed tools to an advanced group of hitters." - BaseballProspectus.com

by Syphon on Apr 8, 2009 2:19 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I saw

the same thing in his sinker in the ST start last week on MLB network. It didn’t look near as good as I had been reading. More tail than sink from what I saw.

by smoooooth on Apr 8, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I noticed gameday messing up some pitchs.

A few change ups at 88mph? I was watching the game at the same time and it was obvious it was a sinker and not a change. Was doing this to other pitchers as well.

"Their Triple-A rotation, led by Trevor Cahill and Brett Anderson, could be better than some big-league rotations; Michael Ynoa is the best Latin American prospect of the decade; 2008 draftees Jemile Weeks and Rashun Dixon bring much-needed tools to an advanced group of hitters." - BaseballProspectus.com

by Syphon on Apr 8, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think this is a new thing

Some of the people they have (I assume it’s people just inputting the information) just aren’t very good.

by thejd44 on Apr 8, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It is a known problem

and in all fairness, Cahill’s change moves exactly like his sinker…

by alskor on Apr 8, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They might move the same

But there should be a fairly large difference in velocity. If there isn’t, that’s not good for Cahill.

by thejd44 on Apr 8, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, its not huge

I meant “known problem” in that Gameday sometimes has problems with exactly that sort of pitch identification… two similarly moving pitches without a ton of difference in velocity. There are lots of guys who alter their velocity on a single pitch that much… think Buehrle.

by alskor on Apr 8, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was just making an overall statement on Cahill

If the two pitches are basically the same pitch, doesn’t that make it easier for hitters to hit him?

by thejd44 on Apr 8, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

can't judge on one start

but it certainly wasn’t impressive. sometimes you see a young guy like, say, Kershaw or Buchholz last year and even if the results aren’t great, the raw stuff is obvious. Cahill, on the other hand, looked pretty mediocre, no real pop or great movement. it could be that his stuff just took an off night due to nerves or due it just being one of those nights. His sinker did look excellent and it could also be that what was lacking tonight that he usually has wasn’t his ‘stuff’, but rather his command. Never exciting seeing a good sinkerball pitcher, but combined with command that’d be plenty to be successful.

by scooter on Apr 8, 2009 2:59 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i agree

it was his first major league start. his 21 im sure things were running though his mind the whole time

Happiness is only real when shared

by manny59 on Apr 8, 2009 3:49 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Only saw a couple innings...

but what people are saying more or less captures what he looked like. Seemed like most of his sinkers were sitting 87-88 with good, but not great, drop. Seemed like he was leaving a lot of pitches up in the zone, so when he threw strikes they were up in the zone, sitting about waste high on the hitters. That’s not exactly where you want to work as a sinkerballer, and if the pitch isn’t getting over 90 MPH, that’s really all you can be.

That said, how much of this can be attributed to nerves? I’ll be interested to see how the control looks in his next few outings..

by jseiner on Apr 8, 2009 10:24 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I watched the whole game

Let’s not forget to take into account, having your first major league start in Anaheim is not the easiest thing to do. The kid just turned 21 a month ago. The team is full of very good hitters and they were very patient with him. In addition, the ump wasn’t giving him any borderline calls, and the commentators were noticing this also.

I will say though, he definitely looked very erratic. He looked to be gripping his pitches too tight and losing the control. Could have been nerves. There were alot of hard hit balls off of him though. I wish they would send him down for more seasoning in the minors.

In the 5th inning, I think he really started to settle in and he was locating his pitches very well. I look forward to his next start.

by DJSlam on Apr 8, 2009 10:55 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Eventually...

I think Cahill will get sent down… As soon as Gio Gonzalez or Gallagher are ready to pitch Major League innings.

by Colorado Fan on Apr 8, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

thanks

this is exactly the kind of stuff i was looking for, thanks everyone. Willing to hear more if people want to add anything else.

by loop on Apr 8, 2009 11:52 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Did anyone else see his last spring training start?

I watched that too – he looked exactly the same as this time… so-so stuff.

I dont think this means much of anything, especially in terms of the long term… Im thinking he’s just not ready.

by alskor on Apr 8, 2009 12:47 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't think he's even all that close to ready

I thought it was a really bad idea to have him in the rotation to start the year. I have no idea what he did this spring that Gallagher didn’t do, but it looks to me like Billy Beane is either making some very uncharacteristic mistakes or somebody above him is telling him what to do.

by thejd44 on Apr 8, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"

by PaulThomas on Apr 8, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah I was watching a poor quality feed..

but Cahill didn’t impress me as a MLB ready starter. The pressure from Wolff is really mucking up what looked like a great rebuilding job that was being done by Beane.

Some of the most violent things I’ve ever seen were at Raiders games. And I’ve been to jail. - leopold bloom

by designatedforassignment on Apr 8, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think he needs some AAA time

He was leaving his stuff up and that led to walks and hard hit balls. He did show swing and miss stuff on two sinkers down and in to Kendrick with good movement and a 79 mph change up to Vlad. The change had the same movement as the sinker.

Long story short if he can execute he could be very good with the stuff he had last night but he’s not a power pitcher that can leave stuff up or down the middle or he will get lit up.

RIVER CATS: AAA CHAMPS!

by niallmack on Apr 8, 2009 1:57 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Did anyone else

see on MLB network last night they were showing how he grips his 2 seamer. He keeps his thumb on the side of the ball instead of under it. Has anyone else ever heard of this.

by smoooooth on Apr 8, 2009 2:08 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

AAA

he needs more garlic seasoning in AAA.

by Rupert Pupkin on Apr 8, 2009 3:33 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Having him in the majors is, basically, ridiculous

Last night’s start demonstrated as much. His command is not sufficiently well developed for him to succeed at this level. If there’s any consolation for A’s fans, it’s that he’s so likely to fail that the issue of service time is almost negligible— he is going to be going back to AAA. Too bad he’ll be pointlessly eating a 40-man roster spot.

Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"

by PaulThomas on Apr 8, 2009 4:20 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I guess that is one optimistic way of looking at it.

Some of the most violent things I’ve ever seen were at Raiders games. And I’ve been to jail. - leopold bloom

by designatedforassignment on Apr 8, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

agreed

i really doubt the a’s couldn’t have found a better, risk free option

"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT

by travdog6 on Apr 8, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Anderson sticks and Cahill goes down when Gio and Gallagher are ready.

With Outman moving to the pen. Going with a rotation of Eveland/Gallagher/Anderson/Gio/Braden. And if Duke comes back to the rotation Braden to the pen.

"Their Triple-A rotation, led by Trevor Cahill and Brett Anderson, could be better than some big-league rotations; Michael Ynoa is the best Latin American prospect of the decade; 2008 draftees Jemile Weeks and Rashun Dixon bring much-needed tools to an advanced group of hitters." - BaseballProspectus.com

by Syphon on Apr 8, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is Gallagher "unready"?

He’s not injured like Duchscherer is, the team just decided for some bizarre reason to put him in the bullpen.

I’m not real high on Anderson’s chances to be good this season either, but he’s more likely to fall into that “crummy but vaguely acceptable” category, which is kind of the worst of all possible worlds.

Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"

by PaulThomas on Apr 8, 2009 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just dont think Gallagher got enough work in this spring.

Missed some time with illness. Never got back to full strength. Which is curious why they put him in the pen. He shoulda went to AAA to get stretched out.

"Their Triple-A rotation, led by Trevor Cahill and Brett Anderson, could be better than some big-league rotations; Michael Ynoa is the best Latin American prospect of the decade; 2008 draftees Jemile Weeks and Rashun Dixon bring much-needed tools to an advanced group of hitters." - BaseballProspectus.com

by Syphon on Apr 8, 2009 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gallagher

Gallagher hasn’t been at full strength and his velo was down, which is why he’s not starting. The A’s want to get him more work and build his arm strength before he moves back to the rotation.

by Berserk on Apr 8, 2009 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

what a's message board are you reading?

"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT

by travdog6 on Apr 8, 2009 4:38 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i was wondering the same thing trav

"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball

by flipgatey3 on Apr 10, 2009 1:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

His sinker is as hyped

I wasn’t all that impressed by his curve or slider, but he did get a couple swings and misses from them. His command, however, was frightening if you’re an A’s fan. Any team that watches this start has a new gameplan—don’t swing. Actually, I was surprised to see the free-swinging Vlad taking all the way until Cahill threw a strike. I was surprised that the A’s won, but when you can get groundballs like that, you’re going to get out of a few jams—but not all of them.

On another note, his mechanics were terribly inconsistent, which is why I’m sure his accuracy was absent. If he could get his mechanics/control in check, his stuff is very good and I’m sure he could approach an average pitcher this year, but mechanics/control aren’t something a 21 year old can just do.

by NateHST on Apr 8, 2009 4:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Exactly. The comments that his stuff is so-so puzzle me.

When he got his sinker round the strikezone it proved very difficult for the Angels to hit. It’s clearly a very good pitch.

What I will say is that I’ve read his knuckle curve is exceptional, yet he barely threw it in his debut (and when he did it wasn’t near the strikezone.. As people have said perhaps that is down to nerves, but he’ll have to drastically improve or else he’s going to get hammered.

The kid should be in AAA and so should Anderson. I can’t believe Beane couldn’t find two projects to fill out the rotation and save these guys.

by OldhamA on Apr 9, 2009 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He looked shaky

But he was also getting called balls on a lot of pitches on the corner that Mosely was getting. The sooner we have a generic strike zone the better. The fact that umpire can effect the game so much just because the pitcher is a rookie is ridiculous.

by DeJay on Apr 9, 2009 7:02 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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