More Royal Idiocy
by wobatus on Apr 7, 2009 5:33 PM EDT
35 comments
I guess this is misplaced as a post on minor league ball, but why do the royals keep underutilizing one of the great pitchers in baseball, Joakim Soria? 8th inning, 2 on, 2 out, 1 run lead, and they let farnsworth pitch to Thome? Result, 3 run dinger and a loss. Soria can't pitch 1 and a third? What a waste.
Hope Morrow will at least be allowed to come on in the 8th for Mariners.
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Royals
Probably wish they had kept Ramon Ramirez and Leo Nunez, instead of pissing them away for things the team didn’t need (Crisp, Jacobs). And not only were those two moved for things not needed in the first place, they go out and waste 9 M on Farnsworth and 6 M on Cruz, the latter being a move that also cost them a 2nd round pick.
by rdf8585 on Apr 7, 2009 5:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Its even worse than that
Coco has an option for 8M or a .5M buyout.
Mike Jacobs will be entering his 2nd arb year.
I dont mind those two guys, but I wouldnt give up cheap, young, controlled players for them.
by alskor on Apr 7, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ugh
worse than I realized.
And now I’m on an early panic watch on lincecum. Traded Holland and Hosmer for him and he’s out after 78 pitches in 3 innings vs. Brew crew.
Not really worried, although his pitch counts end of last season were a bit much.
by wobatus on Apr 7, 2009 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cruz
He’s good but for a org like KC, they were better off keeping the 2nd round pick.
by rdf8585 on Apr 7, 2009 6:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
chances that the 2nd round pick is better than Cruz?
Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.
by doublestix on Apr 7, 2009 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't this sort of a
FV vs. Present Value thing … to judge someone better without knowing who? I mean, I’d say the chances are probably slim, due to the ratio of prospects that actually make the big. I guess this is a cop out of an answer.
by toonsterwu on Apr 7, 2009 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
I’d say less than 40% chance the 2nd rounder for the D-Backs will turn out to be Juan Cruz or a better player
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Apr 10, 2009 5:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Farnsworth
I was all ready for them beat the White Sux and then I saw that Farnsworth was coming in. I pretty much new what was going to happen next. I couldn’t believe that Cruz wasn’t coming in. Finding a way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, thats the Royals way.
by smoooooth on Apr 7, 2009 10:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Joe Sheehan of BP's take:
Trey Hillman, Supergenius
by Joe Sheehan
Two on, two out, one-run lead, eighth inning.
Jim Thome batting.
You have Joakim Soria.
You use Kyle Farnsworth.
Gone.
I know it happens all the time, but it’s really freaking stupid every single time. This is what the creation of the closer position has wrought: teams losing games, frequently, without using their best reliever, for no reason other than the misguided notion that getting three outs is their role, and getting four isn’t.
(For that matter, you also have Ron Mahay. Why did you acquire him if not to have him face Jim Thome in the eighth inning of a one-run game? Ron Gardenhire lost the division last year for want of a similar clue and Jose Mijares.)
Some people deserve to lose.
by alskor on Apr 7, 2009 11:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Is he
comparing this to Gardenhire letting Nick Blackburn who had allowed just 3 hits pitch to Jim Thome in the bottom of the 7th inning in a 0-0 game.
by smoooooth on Apr 7, 2009 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
80th pitch of that game
he took a 2-2 thigh high sinker out to center
by smoooooth on Apr 7, 2009 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That reasoning is mainly why, as a Cubs fan
I am pleased that Marmol is setting up and not closing. I’m not a big Kevin Gregg fan. Marmol is easily our best pen arm and will be able to get the critical outs. Gotta keep the lead to get the save after all.
by toonsterwu on Apr 7, 2009 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, but....
I think Gregg’s days as the closer are numbered. Sooner or later he’s going to blow back to back saves and there will be pressure to get him out of that role.
by slurve on Apr 8, 2009 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what happened, according to hillman
he had both mahay and cruz up in case farnsworth blew up. when farnsworth was able to strike out carlos quentin w/ 1 out and runners on 1st and third, hillman sat mahay down and trusted farnsworth to get thome out.
While I can understand why many feel either Soria or Mahay should have been brought in to face Thome, I don’t think it’s a terrible decision to leave Farnsworth in. Thome is at a point in his career where he’s basically a three outcomes guy. Add in the fact that Farnsworth had just struck out Quentin and had yet to give up a hard hit ball (bunt single by fields and soft liner by getz) and I can see why Hillman felt comfortable leaving Farny in. The Royals signed him to be their set up guy, so they used him there. It’s easy to second-guess since Thome homered, but at the time it didn’t seem like a terrible decision.
by joltinjoe on Apr 8, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What if I told you
-Farnsworth is terrible against LHH
-Farnsworth is prone to giving up HRs
Terrible decision, and the fact he sat down Mahay after Farnsworth struck out a guy makes it look even worse to me. Hillman should have been focused on the two facts above.
by alskor on Apr 8, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Even if Thome is a 3 outcome guy, one of those 3 is homers, especially against righties, and farnsworth’s tendencies only make that more likely…and, it happened. Extremely hard to defend now. If Thome had popped out it’s still hard to defend.
by wobatus on Apr 8, 2009 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and Blackburn
had only allowed 2 hits
Hardly the same circumstances
by smoooooth on Apr 7, 2009 11:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
you're right.
that game was only to decide who would go to the playoffs.
by larry on Apr 7, 2009 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so the move would have been to
bring in a rookie reliever who couldn’t even make the club this spring.
Apparently Ozzie didn’t get that message either, he left Danks in the game to pitch the 8th.
So you really think the right move is to pull your guy who has been dominating the opposition and start playing righty lefty matchups in the 7th inning when your bullpen is the weakest part of the team.
by smoooooth on Apr 8, 2009 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so the guy who was dominating the opposition over the course of the last month of the season wasn't a good idea, huh.
your logic isn’t consistent here regarding small sample sizes (and gardy didn’t exactly have a problem bringing in the rookie later that inning, did he?). let me introduce you to platoon splits. take a look at thome’s. kind of have a lot of data there. there is little to no reason to have him face a righty late in a game. and, when that righty is as unimpressive as blackburn is, there is none – most especially when it’s potentially your last game of the season and one swing of the bat changes the game.
or, since you seem to like small sample sizes in your decision making, maybe you’d prefer to look at thome’s splits against blackburn.
and i’ve got no clue what leaving danks in has to do with this, unless you’re implying nick punto or brendan harris are threats.
by larry on Apr 8, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thome vs blackburn prior to that atbat
4-13 2 2B 0HR 4K 3BB
It’s easy for armchair managers to say he should have never faced Thome. But when your in the dugout and your guy has gone 6 innings of 2 hit ball on 75 pitches, there aren’t many managers who are going to be taking the ball out of his hand.
To compare that situation to when you have a one run lead in the 8th and you didn’t bring in your best reliever, well I don’t see that as a good comparison at all
by smoooooth on Apr 8, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blackburn had retired nine guys in a row
I just don’t see how it’s an automatic bad call on Gardenhires behalf to have Blackburn pitch to Thome. To say that Blackburn shouldn’t have started the 7th inning is only made an easy call by what we know now.
What lost the Twins the game was the inability to score even 1 run.
by smoooooth on Apr 8, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
or, judging by the scoreline, rather the inability to prevent the other team from scoring one run.
thome doesn’t hit lefties even close to as well as he hits righties. you have a lefty up in your bullpen. it’s a bad decision. i was sitting in the stands of that game looking out to the twins bullpen and watching the lefty get warm and knowing what was coming. and then it not coming. the guy in front of me, who i had been talking to throughout the game turned to me, and we both said the same thing – what the fuck is gardenhire doing.
by larry on Apr 8, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thome versus lefties
Thome had a higher slugging average last year versus lefties than righties. Small sample, but there ya go.
by wobatus on Apr 8, 2009 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm aware of that.
i’m also aware that one year of splits don’t mean anything.
by larry on Apr 9, 2009 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like I said...
…more defensible than the Farnsworth move… but I definitely would have gone to the pen.
by alskor on Apr 8, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
certainly more defensible.
but still incorrect. managers can’t afford to let emotions or recency creep too much into their decisions. sure, sometimes you have a decision that’s 45-55 and you go against the odds because of something you feel. but thome’s splits ain’t a 45-55 decision, especially with the twins bullpen, the fact that you have an even deeper availability of pitchers since it’s the last game, and all the other factors that have been discussion.
by larry on Apr 8, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
re: I don't think Trey Hillman is to blame
He has to use Kyle Farnsworth at some point, right? If anything, he has been given less to work with thanks to his “genius” general manager. look, Kyle makes too much money just to sit in the pen to do nothing. Although he probably will do less harm if he just sits all season long.
How does Kyle Farnsworth and Sidney Ponson end up getting jobs?
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on Apr 8, 2009 5:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
ron mahay makes a couple hundred thousand less than farnsworth.
and “at some point” does not have to be “high leverage situations” or “situations in which kyle farnsworth has created a high leverage situation due to his own shortcomings as a pitcher”.
by larry on Apr 8, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats like saying
“We have to carry Tony Pena on the roster, so lets play him in CF and bat him fifth”
He didnt have to use him at the most important moment of the game. I agree there is plenty of blame to go around.
by alskor on Apr 8, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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