Slightly OT: How bad are the Pirates?
by joltinjoe on Apr 3, 2009 1:30 PM EDT
40 comments
The Pirates, who have averaged 89 losses since 1993, sank to the deepest part of Pittsburgh's Three Rivers on Thursday after one of its split squads lost to Manatee (Fla.) Community College during a fundraising exhibition game.
In some ways, the top of the box score says it all: Manatee C.C. 6, Pittsburgh 4.
The Sarasota Herald-Review, however, ran a very detailed story — almost 1,000 words, for your Bucco masochists — about how the Lancers did the unlikely at McKechnie Field in Bradenton.
It's only fair to point out that the Pirates lineup was filled out by guys who missed the cut in spring training. Several of the team's best players, including Nate McLouth, Ryan Doumit, the LaRoches and Stewcast guest Freddy Sanchez, did not play in the game.
Yet several guys who have logged big league minutes — like Mets' killer Steve Pearce, Brian Bixler andRobinzon Diaz — were in the no-win situation lineup, as was prized prospect Jose Tabata. Virgil Vazquez, who contended for Pittsburgh's fifth starter spot this spring, started the game for Pittsburgh on the mound.
OK, so your aunt was in contention for that fifth spot, too, but that's not the point. These were real, live Triple-A (perhaps even Class 4A) players.
And these junior college Manatees managed to beat ‘em!
Whatever excuse you want to drum up for the Pirates — spring training's almost over, the scrubs played the final five innings, the juco players wanted it more — we still say it's not good enough. Get ready Pirates, we'd like for you to take on our office softball team.
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This line says it all.
It’s only fair to point out that the Pirates lineup was filled out by guys who missed the cut in spring training.
This is a non issue. I don’t really understand why this was news.
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on Apr 3, 2009 4:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
why is this news?
Well how about these are players who should be AA or AAA, if not MLB players and they lost to a COMMUNITY COLLEGE! That’s pathetic.
by joltinjoe on Apr 3, 2009 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's pathetic about it?
That a mish mash of Pirates minor leaguers who probably don’t give a crap in the first place lost to a community college team?
I don’t see how this, in any way, reflects back on the Pirates organization. Baseball is loaded with billions of probabilities. Congratulations, we stumbled across another one.
Every year someone will make a comment about how the best college football team could beat the worst NFL team. Are people comparing this to that? That a major league professional team was beaten by a bunch of amateurs? It’s not really the same scenario. In fact, it’s not even close.
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on Apr 4, 2009 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you serious?
A collection of players who are, at the worst, all in the top 100 in the Pirates organization couldn’t be a community college team? That’s like a Division I football team losing to a high school team with an enrollment of 1,000.
I realize that there is some randomness in baseball, but seriously. They lost to a COMMUNITY COLLEGE team. We’re not even talking a University. Not Division I, not Division II, probably not even Division III. COMMUNITY COLLEGE.
And the Pirates players have all played at a level much higher than that. It’s pathetic, any way you look at it. If you are a AAA player, you should be able to beat a Community college team. From my understanding, Division I is considered on par with roughly a Low-A team. So it’s safe to assume that a Community college team isn’t even as tough as facing a rookie ball squad. If the Pirates AAA/MLB backups can’t beat a rookie ball team, they’re in some SERIOUS trouble.
by joltinjoe on Apr 4, 2009 2:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let me ask you this
Do you really think if the Pirates play their single A affiliate 20 times that they beat them 20 times? That is not the nature of baseball. There is often a huge gap between the best MLB team and the worst, yet the difference in the amount of games they win is typically not more than 40. Even the worst team will win 60 times or so.
Another factor youre ignoring is that the Pirates werent trying very hard to win this game – and I dont just mean the players (though the pitchers at least may have had other goals than “dominate CC hitters”). The manager was not interested in winning the game on a strategic level. The Bucs did not leverage their assets toward winning. They did not worry about team defense, or how they used pitchers and in what order, etc… they did not make strategic moves they could have in order to win.
by alskor on Apr 4, 2009 2:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even if the Pirates were trying to win...
it doesn’t matter. A community college team will likely beat a major league team at least 5-10% of the time. It doesn’t mean anything.
by DrunkIrish on Apr 4, 2009 3:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Also, not that it matters much, but to punch holes in the argument that every single player on the community college team is some local kid who couldn’t play above that level, community college rosters are made up of players like that, but also of players who transferred out of Division I programs for various reasons, but did it too late to play for another Division I school, or players who may be good enough to play Division II or III, but whose families can’t afford it.
Also, this game was a much bigger deal for the college team than the Pirates.
by El Duq of Hurl on Apr 4, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“the Pirates werent trying very hard to win this game – and I dont just mean the players (though the pitchers at least may have had other goals than "dominate CC hitters"). The manager was not interested in winning the game on a strategic level. The Bucs did not leverage their assets toward winning. They did not worry about team defense, or how they used pitchers and in what order, etc… they did not make strategic moves they could have in order to win.”
So you must have been there and watched the game? Because you seem to be very sure of how the Pirates played the game. Or maybe you’re able to look at a box score and figure all of that out.
The Pirates played a COMMUNITY COLLEGE. That level of competition is worse than rookie ball. I realize that every dog has its day and flukes happen in baseball. But a major league team (even if it’s playing with some minor league players) shouldn’t lose to a Community College team. PERIOD.
by joltinjoe on Apr 4, 2009 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You seem to be awfully hard up for this.
What possible motivation do you have to believe that this means anything? So far, the only logical thing I can come up with is that you just don’t like quitting an argument.
It’s not a big deal. There have already been numerous explanations in this sub thread for the likelihood of a non professional team beating a quasi-pro team. If you don’t like any of them, that’s your choice, but quit acting like this is one of the biggest shocks that has ever come to your attention.
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on Apr 4, 2009 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just nonsense.
You need to get over yourself. The whole incident amounts to a big zero. And unlike you, I have NO allegiance to either team.
by squarejaw on Apr 5, 2009 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay...
Now you’re supposed to tell us why you think that way.
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on Apr 5, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why I think players at a community college beating players who will either be in the majors this year, next year or the Pirates have hope they will be in 2 years is pathetic? Explain that? You should be able to sleep walk through a easy win in that situation. Community college is the especially pathetic part.
by cowboy4eva on Apr 6, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How was this OT?
I really couldnt give a crap about any of the last 50 people to ask for fantasy trade advice or share their team. I think that’s beyond lame. Posts like this, much more interesting.
by benzalman on Apr 3, 2009 5:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
hahaha
yea i know i think most of those posts are the equivalent of “Does this dress make me look fat?”
The Giants need to sign Harry Doyle.
by jrose643 on Apr 3, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry to say
jrose, but that dress does make you look fat.
by FI2 on Apr 3, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
The fantasy team stuff is old. Maybe once the season starts people will focus on actual baseball.
by thejd44 on Apr 3, 2009 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don't understand
John said he would delete posts about inviting people to fantasy leagues, but he doesn’t delete post about asking advice, rankings or showing the teams.
by jahs34 on Apr 5, 2009 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think folks are just tired of the off season and want to get to actual baseball.
The fanpost area has been loaded with “RANK THIS FANTASY DRAFT” and “SHOULD I TRAD X FANTASY PLAYER FOR Y FANTASY PLAYER” and there’s been very little actual baseball discussion otherwise.
I’m not saying fantasy baseball doesn’t belong, because, y’know, more power to you if you play and have fun with it, but there is a distinct difference between fantasy analysis and real player analysis. Fantasy is only interested in certain stat padding aspects, real baseball requires more than that.
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on Apr 5, 2009 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some of those topics
lead to good discussion and comparisons. The look at my team ones are probably the worst at being relevant to the board and minor league discussion, but for instance that Jake Arrieta for Michael Bowden opinion thread based on a trade could leave to a great discussion if it hasn’t already…
by cowboy4eva on Apr 5, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not saying they should be deleted
I just don’t really care for 50 of what is essentially the same post.
by thejd44 on Apr 5, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
still better than the Padres.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Apr 3, 2009 6:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't agree
Padres at least have a stopper with Peavy and a legit power hitter with Adrian Gonzalez. They both are going to be terrible this year, but I would give the edge to the Padres to be the better team.
by Zabat on Apr 6, 2009 2:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In the near future, though
The Pirates have significant more things going for them. An OF of McLouth, McCutchen and Pearce or Brandon Moss Tabata isn’t bad at all. Between the Laroches and Pedro Alvarez, they should have a solidly above average corner infield. Their middle field is pretty mediocre, and their rotation is weak, though I can conceive of one or two worst big 3s than Maholm, Snell and Zach Duke, and they have an excellent closer. This isn’t a championship team, but they might have a fighting shot at a .500 record
TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems
by OldProspects on Apr 6, 2009 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What you gotta do is get yourself an education and a job!
by thejd44 on Apr 3, 2009 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm a manatee!
I live in the ocean, and have a layer of blubber to keep me warm.
by El Duq of Hurl on Apr 4, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Lancers have a pretty good team..
The Sarasota/Manatee areas are fertile baseball grounds, and the dumb ones have to play somewhere…Not that even a GCL team should ever lose to a CC team, but it happens.
Kaz/Shields/Garza/Sonny/Price/Davis/Hellickson-necessitate a drool cup or a 7 man rotation
by CubFanRaysaddict on Apr 3, 2009 7:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
ok, so I suck at posting links....
http://www.ekusports.com/documents/2009/4/1/EKU_KSU.pdf
The Giants need to sign Harry Doyle.
by jrose643 on Apr 3, 2009 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bad day for Jamaal Duncan
2.1 22 25 14 1
IP H R ER BB
Game isn’t as bad if you do it be ER (20-1), but still, damn I played for the preppy schools basketball team and the worst we ever lost by was 35.
Kaz/Shields/Garza/Sonny/Price/Davis/Hellickson-necessitate a drool cup or a 7 man rotation
by CubFanRaysaddict on Apr 4, 2009 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hard to tell
but BAD.
Theyre still a “talent acquisition” phase of rebuilding so its tough to see how the pieces fit. This is not a good team, but theyre not exactly making the little moves that playoff contenders would, either…
by alskor on Apr 4, 2009 2:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
what about the reds losing to Carolina
12-4….http://mlb.mlb.com/news/boxscore.jsp?gid=2009_04_03_cmcaax_cinmlb_1
And thats with Arroyo starting and their opening day lineup for the most part. Thats embarrassing.
Carlos Quentin's time has arrived.
by Team Moneyball on Apr 4, 2009 4:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I believe Carolina is actually the Reds All-Prospect team BA mentions
which means the talent disparity is not as bad as it appears. Just compare a list of the Reds top 40 prospects from John’s book or BA with the lineup. They were supposed to play at Dayton and Carolina I believe, MLB.com was just being lazy with the team name.
by tdot mariner fan on Apr 4, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As a Reds fan, it's not embarrassing, it's exciting!
And honestly, it was a pretty nice lineup the Futures team put out there. Valaika, Francisco, Alonso, Frazier, Soto, Stubbs, and Mesoraco making up the 2-8. All of those players either have been a top-100 prospect or will be by next year (aside from Mesoraco, but he’s got plenty of time to turn into something solid).
Heisey, RF
Valaika, 2B
Francisco, DH
Alonso, 1B
Frazier, LF
Soto, 3B
Stubbs, CF
Mesoraco, C
Cozart, SS
by Geki on Apr 4, 2009 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it doesn't really mean that much
but it has to be fairly embarrassing.
Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.
by doublestix on Apr 4, 2009 6:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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