Elijah Dukes fined for spending too much time with kids
by OldProspects on Apr 20, 2009 4:51 PM EDT
106 comments
Elijah Dukes, bastard guy and terrific baseball player, was benched for a game, fined 500 bucks and threatened with a demotion to AAA for coming 5 minutes late. What had he been doing, you ask? Signing baseballs for local Little Leaguers.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090418&content_id=4326576&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb
I wish I had something funny to say, but frankly this is too bizarre of a story to comment on. I'm still not convinced this isn't an Onion feature that mlb.com screwed up on.
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Manny Acta is clearly a great leader.
Tools Whore
by Tyler on Apr 20, 2009 5:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The Nationals franchise is a complete joke!
Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!
by Dewey Finn on Apr 20, 2009 5:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
the "o"
is it behind the button hole flap?
by wobatus on Apr 21, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
apparently not
Mourning Guy Carbonneau...
Royals obscure player to watch in ST: Lenny DiNardo
by playingwithfire on Apr 21, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is this a friggin joke?
They really misspelled the name on the front of their uniforms???
by alskor on Apr 21, 2009 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought...
It was because the Nats have no “O”.
by PissedMick on Apr 21, 2009 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Personally
I think it’s good to have rules like that and to come down on players no matter what their reason is for being late. I still would think that you could make an exception for something like this. I also realize that the story we hear may be different from what actually happened. Maybe Elijah came in late and didn’t say a word. Manny Acta tells him he is late and being fined and benched for it. Elijah blows up at Manny. Manny decides “you know what, if you would have just told me that without blowing up I would let it go but since you’re a jerk about it I’m gonna stay true to my rules”. Who knows. In any case it is awful publicity. With Elijahs past however I would be inclined to think his atitude MAY have had something to do with it.
by kershaw_equals_stud on Apr 20, 2009 5:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm kind of torn myself
On the one hand, we don’t know the situation. If Dukes was running late, maybe he calls ahead, warns Acta that he’s going to be late. Maybe he didn’t do that. Maybe he didn’t even bother to explain himself.
Maybe they’re being tough with him due to his history of behavioral problems.
Even with all those maybes that were within Dukes’ control, I have to think that this could really send him the wrong signal. I mean, he’s out there, trying to do something good, and then he gets his hand slapped for it. I do think that whichever club Dukes belongs to needs to recognize his personal history outside of baseball as shaping how he behaves in baseball, and the guy grew up with a father in prison for killing someone who sold his mom bad crack, if I remember correctly. Considering that history, let’s say Dukes is at some inner city DC ballpark, helping kids out, some of whom are probably from backgrounds similar to his. He stays a few minutes late, signs some autographs, wants to give them a warm feeling that he didn’t have often enough in his youth.
I’m speculating a lot here, but working with little leaguers is about the best thing Dukes can be doing with himself in his spare time, and I don’t think they needed to be this hard on him. I’m afraid it will just leave him even more embittered, and he’s already got some bitterness issues.
Just my two cents. As I said, I’m torn.
by Fanon on Apr 20, 2009 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
stupid
That’s just stupid. I agree with trying to create order and discipline, but some common sense is needed here. Seriously, you fine him for spending TOO MUCH TIME with kids in the community. Also, as someone who has been around MLB club houses before games, I can assure you that most spend the hours before a game pretty much doing nothing anyway. It’s not like being 5 min late really matters.
by joltinjoe on Apr 20, 2009 5:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Meh
Dude needs to show up on time; if there is any player in baseball whose team needs to keep them in line, it is Dukes. The article says it isn’t the first time this is happened.
The only thing worth getting bothered about is if he actually was sent down, but that didn’t happen here.
by aCone419 on Apr 20, 2009 6:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
This shouldnt be blown out of proportion one way or the other… kind of silly, but youre a professional and have to be on time. Doesnt matter if youre banging supermodels or signing balls for little leaguers. If it was me, I would let it go, but I dont have a problem with what the Nats did. This had more to do with Lastings Milledge than it did Elijah Dukes.
by alskor on Apr 20, 2009 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well said...
If Elijah called to let them know, I doubt it would have been an issue. Regardless, it isn’t like they hit him with a hefty fine ($500 bucks is nothing to a MLB player), or sent him to the minors. It looks to me like they are just trying to establish a fair set of rules for everyone.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Apr 20, 2009 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure
and if they do all these things with an explanation like “Elijah, we’re not mad at you, but we feel its important to be consistent. We’re trying to change things around here and we have to stay consistent to change the culture. Don’t take it personally, kid. We like the changes youve been making and the fact you were signing autographs for Little Leaguers is a good thing – something to be proud of.”
by alskor on Apr 21, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where are all of the people who usually call him "human trash"?
by Flynn Blake on Apr 20, 2009 8:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Working the closing shift at Arby's.
by PissedMick on Apr 20, 2009 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that’s where Dukes will probably be in three years.
by alskor on Apr 20, 2009 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
If there is one thing everyone seems to agree on, it is that working at Arby’s equates to being a jerk. I for one think that it is a perfectly fine and respectable job, unlike working at White Castle. Stupid losers.
by mkvallely on Apr 20, 2009 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I for one think Arby's is awesome
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
by PaulThomas on Apr 21, 2009 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
i could go all day for them roast beef sandwiches
Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.
by doublestix on Apr 21, 2009 3:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It drives me nuts
That there isn’t an Arby’s anywhere near where I live. That’s probably for the best, but damn do I love Arby’s. Especially when they have those specials running. Load up the roast beefs!
by joltinjoe on Apr 21, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
horseradish sauce
man I like those rb sammiches back in college. And a sack of white castle rat burgers hit the spot now and then too. A great ballplayer can be a jerk and a fastfood service employyee can be a saint. A quick thank you to the night shift at hardees on Franklin Street back in the day.
by wobatus on Apr 21, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Specials?
I don’t think it’s cool to call the people who run Arby’s “Specials.” Very insensitive. And then to steal roast beef from them just because they don’t know any better? Despicable!
Ichiro, on facing Daisuke Matsuzaka for the first time: "I hope he arouses the fire that's dormant in the innermost recesses of my soul."
by DaleCoop14 on Apr 23, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doubtful
I think Dukes is a real three true outcomes player: on a corner, in jail, or a star. I hope he’s a star.
by Fanon on Apr 20, 2009 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And by saying that I hope he's a star
I should say that I hope he gets his life together and learns how to be a reasonable human being.
by Fanon on Apr 20, 2009 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
Dukes is a young kid with a history of misdemeanors who’s never been convicted or accused of an actual violent crime. He’s done some very bad things, but we NEVER hear the same thing about repeat offenders who actually DO commit violent acts. Brett Myers beat up his wife. Something makes me think this isn’t brought up every single time he shows up 5 minutes late to practice as a way to hold him to a stricter standard than other players.
by slamcactus on Apr 20, 2009 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Brett Myers hit his wife in public in Boston. We don’t see people complaining about that, do we?
by demondeaconsbaseball on Apr 21, 2009 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whoops
Missed the original example in the comment… sorry, it’s late.
by demondeaconsbaseball on Apr 21, 2009 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do complain about that
I hate Brett Myers.
by Fanon on Apr 21, 2009 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
People see something in Dukes they don't in Myers.
There seems to be something…darker…about Dukes.
by PissedMick on Apr 21, 2009 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously
Everyone gets so pissed off when Dukes makes Little League chants in the dugout or when he spends a little extra time signing kids’ balls
Brett Myers hits his wife and its all under the table.
by METSMETSMETS on Apr 21, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not at all
It’s not all under the table as far as Brett Myers goes. It was HUGE when it happened. Difference between these two is that Myers isn’t constantly fucking up. Can’t say the same for Dukes. Dukes has been pretty good lately and I don’t really consider this anything that belongs in the same conversation as his past transgressions.
And in response to the title of this thread – No, he didn’t get fined for signing autographs for kids – he got fine for being late.
by slurve on Apr 22, 2009 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Technically
The title was “too much time” – i.e. that he therefore came late to his next event.
Obviously, though, it was glib
TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems
by OldProspects on Apr 23, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually...
he has been accused of violent crimes. Several times. I think convicted as well. And also suspended from one of the Tampa Bay minor league teams for fighting with another teammate.
"My mom always taught me it's better to laugh at yourself than to laugh at others. She was so wrong. ;)" -Pedrophile
by Boxkutter on Apr 21, 2009 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's a difference...
between a “violent crime” and threatening someone. Dukes is the kind of guy who threatens violence because he has trouble controlling his anger, but hasn’t had trouble controlling himself physically.
by PissedMick on Apr 21, 2009 1:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Emotional assault
Constantly threatening someone so they have to live in constant fear is a type of ‘assault’. While some people on this site go too far and compare Dukes to Satan, others go to far and excuse every one of his actions since he knows how to hit a curveball. Dukes is a troubled person, but not beyond rehabilitation. However, lets not act like all the allegations against him are without basis.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Apr 21, 2009 2:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, he's a real jerk.
He’s probably not a very good friend, and he’s damn sure not a good boyfriend. He’s past the point of being a jerk even. Like many men, he’s emotionally abusive. But to say “he has been accused of violent crimes. Several times. I think convicted as well” is ignorant. We’re talking about a man who’s 6’2" and 240 pounds, and the worst thing you can say he’s done to someone physically is “scratch a husband’s back”, or throw something in a person’s general direction.
This isn’t Brian Giles, who beats the holy s*** out of his wife outside a San Diego bar. It’s not Brett Myers, who punches his wife in the face on the Boston street and then gets her to drop the charges. This is a guy who has trouble controlling what comes out of his mouth.
I’m not even close to the first person who’s going to shout “racism!” in any situation, but this is one that speaks a lot about us sociologically. Dukes is treated like the bad guy because he looks like we expect the bad guy to look. He’s big, he’s black, he’s got drugs in his history (though he wasn’t a user), and he doesn’t smile for the camera. Of course, that’s bad enough for some people.
by PissedMick on Apr 21, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My bad...
the back scratch was DONE to Dukes. Oops.
by PissedMick on Apr 21, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
get off it
Has nothing to do with racism. The problem is far more one of athletes (whether it is Myers, Eric Devendorf, Dukes or Brian Giles) getting away with crap than fact some people don’t like Elijah Dukes. Dukes is treated like a bad guy because he has done many things that we associate with bad guys. He hasn’t been convicted of rape, arson or assault. Thank goodness for small favors. Those aren’t required elements for not liking him.
by wobatus on Apr 21, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're right..
race is never an issue. Ever. Our society is color blind. Hell, I didn’t even know from looking at him that Dukes WAS black!
Race shouldn’t be used as a shield, but anytime it’s EVER mentioned in public perception of athletes, no matter the circumstance, there’s always a legion of white people ready to stand up and say it’s a non-issue. With all due respect, these people are full of shit. Race remains a huge issue that informs peoples’ opinions at both the conscious and subconscious levels, and any attempt to say that public opinions of athletes are formed in a race-blind fashion is either extreme denial or outright dishonesty. The media aren’t race-blind when they choose which adjectives to apply to players, coaches aren’t race-blind when they choose which transgressions to punish and which to let slide, and fans aren’t race blind when they see white athletes and black athletes acting out.
by slamcactus on Apr 21, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Didn't say it didn't exist
Manny Acta from San Pedro de Macaris is a racist? Well, he looks a bit anglo.
It isn’t a bit racist to suggest Dukes, who comes from a tough background, should be excused for fathering lots of kids out of wedlock from various mothers and threatening his wife to the point she feared for her life? Choking a teammate? because that ain’t so bad, look, Brett Myers beat his wife?
BTW, there are lots of google hits on myers being a wife-beater and Brian Giles too. In fact, Giles seems like a stupid juvenile thug as well. he and his brother seem like idiots, brian with the added issue of being dangerous.
Does race color perception, does it effect how sports writers write and fans perceive? Sure. But far from being subjected to racism, Duke’s problem seems to be his behavior was all too often excused because he was a ballplayer, not that he was picked on because he is black.
Same for countless white athletes. It’s a problem that is fairly color-blind. You aren’t going to be able to legislate people into thinking gee, Elijah Dukes, what a great spokesman for wheaties.
Finally, one is supposed to excuse Dukes for his behavior because there are biased white people, or white athletes that commit crimes?
by wobatus on Apr 21, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Puertan Ricans
are just as racist against black people, if not more, than white people.
I’m pretty sure Acta is from PR… Am I wrong?
by METSMETSMETS on Apr 21, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
dominican
san pedro de macaris. I am way off base on even suggesting that. Mea culpa. But as a ballplayer growing up there he wouldn’t exacly be isolated from blacks.
Manny was also hired as a coach by Frank Robinson. And by Willie Randolph. What he did may seem silly, but not racist.
by wobatus on Apr 21, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually
racism is a pretty big problem in the DR. Was thinking more as a ballplayer growing up around it, and working with Robinson and Randolph, he doesn’t seem as likely a candidate as say someone like Dixie walker (picking a safe old example) or Enos Slaughter. What Acta did really doesn’t have racist overtones in my mind. Although, because it is Dukes, I guess that is an angle people suspect.
by wobatus on Apr 21, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Management vs. the Media
I think the issue here is less that people are saying the Nats’ management is racist than it is that people are saying the way Dukes has been portrayed in the media is shaded by the color of his skin. And, because the media portrays him that way, management has to deal with the situation a little bit differently. But we’re getting away from the particular incident at hand.
by Fanon on Apr 21, 2009 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Puertan Ricans are just as racist against black people, if not more, than white people.
Wow… that’s an extremely racist thing to say. I hope you grasp the irony here.
and… Puertan Ricans? Seriously?
by alskor on Apr 21, 2009 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
legion of white people
I dunno. Race effects everyone’s consciousness. Not just whites. A la School Daze or the Charlie Murphy/Rick james skit on Chappell. “Darkness, Charlie Murphy.”
by wobatus on Apr 21, 2009 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope.
Constantly threatening someone so they have to live in constant fear is a type of ‘assault’.
While the moral difference is interesting to discuss, the law doesn’t see it that way, and assault is a legal term with a precise definition, one which Elijah Dukes has never been found to have satisfied in a court of law.
by slamcactus on Apr 21, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
assault is a legal term with a precise definition indeed
Here it is:
A crime that occurs when one person tries to physically harm another in a way that makes the person under attack feel immediately threatened. Actual physical contact is not necessary; threatening gestures that would alarm any reasonable person can constitute an assault.
http://www.nolo.com/definition.cfm/term/22542b6f-fedb-450a-889a82a49ea50ceb/alpha/a/
There is no way anyone can make a reasonable argument that Dukes did not assault his girlfriend. He had to be restrained by deputies.
by alskor on Apr 21, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
indeed
Battery is actual contact. Assault need not require contact. This all depends on the jurisdiction.
by wobatus on Apr 21, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
I am not saying that Dukes is evil, but I am just tired of some people going overboard and excusing his actions entirely.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Apr 21, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some history...
I found a more detailed history of his past criminal history and posted it here a few years ago, but I can’t find it right now. Here is a quick exert from an article I did find:
“In 2003, Gilbert accused Dukes of throwing a remote control at her. In April 2004, she accused him of harassing phone calls. Later that year, she said he hit her with a soda can, threw a glass candy bowl and ripped a phone cord out of the wall when she tried to call 911. In August 2006, deputies arrested Gilbert, accusing her of scratching her husband’s back during an argument. The charge was dropped in September.
Court records show that Dukes was sentenced to probation in February 2005 for a charge of domestic battery. They also show that Gilbert received a yearlong restraining order against Dukes in October 2004. But the incident involved in those cases was unclear Tuesday.
In October 2005, another Tampa woman, Carla Bryant, the mother of Dukes’ oldest child, filed for a domestic violence restraining order against Dukes. A judge ordered that he stay away from her for a year. Bryant claimed Dukes threatened her over the phone."
And that was an old article. He also got into trouble since then for throwing a Gatorade at that 17 year who has the most recent child he fathered. Either way, he does not just threaten…. he does assault.
"My mom always taught me it's better to laugh at yourself than to laugh at others. She was so wrong. ;)" -Pedrophile
by Boxkutter on Apr 21, 2009 2:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's an ass
he sends the text with the gun, says “you’re dead dawg, I don’t care if the kids are in the car” whatever. That ain’t just n anger problem. Of course, his dad shot a guy for selling his mom bad crack. I am not gonne say it is nature over nurture here. And he has said stuff like “no one will help you because I am a baseball player.” Just like Burgos did.
He’s a criminal. Signing a few autographs for kids papers that over?
People act like his bad acts were a long time ago when he was a kid. Barely 2 years ago on some charges.
As far as the fine, and the charges against him? well, I wasn’t there. The nationals issue is more a problem of having him at all rather than the calibration of fines based on extenuating circumstances. The gun text ad voicemails were physical evidence, though. He can’t change his record. Talented player though. If Burgos had been any good he may have gotten away with his crap.
by wobatus on Apr 21, 2009 8:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes.
That being said, it’s been a few months since he’s gotten into real trouble, so perhaps the Nationals’ guard and so forth have managed to accomplish something
TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems
by OldProspects on Apr 21, 2009 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's true
as far as we know. You hope he is getting it and maybe he is. He is an extremely talented player, no doubt. The fine does seema bit odd, but i wasn’t there. maybe other players have signed autographs and still been on time. Small infraction. Samll fine. Perhaps it blows past.
by wobatus on Apr 21, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes
folks do “complain” about Myers. He’s an ass too. And Bobby Cox hit his wife once. And a federal judge in NY hit his wife. Made the papers recently. Dukes did stuff like this again and again.
This incident is nothing. $500 fine for being late. Signing a few autographs for little leaguers. Wow, what a saint.
by wobatus on Apr 21, 2009 8:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, he didn't.
Dukes has never been charged with, arrested for, or convicted of physically assaulting another human being. He’s never been convicted of anything that meets the standard of violent crime. Harassment, yes. Violence, no.
Alec Baldwin left a pretty fucking mean voicemail on his daughter’s cell phone during his divorce. He threatened to hit her with a brick, and called her a pig. Is he an incorrigible personality who is bound to end up in jail?
by slamcactus on Apr 21, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh please
He got probation for these things and restraining orders against him. His ex allagedly feared for her life. Go read the text and voicemail transcripts. Alec baldwin didn’t threaten to kill his daughter. And he got castigated for that too. And who is here defending Alec baldwin?
People are throwing up straw man defenses for this guy. Brett Myers is a thug too. What has that to do with the price of tea in China?
by wobatus on Apr 21, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The defense...
is that he’s never committed a violent crime. Taken in the abstract, pointing at a young black man with a history of doing dickish but not felonious things and saying he belongs in jail (or is almost certain to end up there) is very, very troubling.
by slamcactus on Apr 21, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
stop it
You aren’t his defense lawyer. The things he is alleged to have done are not just dickish. They could be construed as felonious if it had been pressed to a conclusion. he got probation. People coaxed his ex into not going forward with certain things because it would hurt his career and hence her, and her and his children. probably very similar to the calculations that Myers wife made. If he was a white dude with this exact same history I would think the same thing of him.
Eric Devendorf, accused of hitting girlfriend, behaves like a lout on the court. Seems like a jerk. can’t be sure. don’t know him.
Tim Duncan, seems like a nice guy. Can’t be sure. Don’t know him.
Elijah Dukes. Seems like a thug. Not convicted of murder rape or assault. Nevertheless, without knowing for sure, don’t like him
Brett Myers. Hit his wife. Not convicted of anything. Don’t like him either. Although plenty of people can do bad things and not be irredeemable. Dukes too. Although it hasn’t been just one accusation, but a litany.
nevertheless, judge not lest i be judged. But doesn’t mean I have to like the guy or defend against any and all charges against him.
if you are the Nationals, you can worry about whether you are coming off as racist. Bottom lline is, you want folks to come to the ball parjk and root for the team. The whole culture is poisoned this way. Win at all costs. Folks going to see college football teams loaded with non-student criminals.
by wobatus on Apr 21, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What are you "really"ing?
Dukes has a history of getting himself into trouble. Brett Myers has a history of being a first class asshole. There’s a difference.
Dukes’ problem with his angry, violent tendencies has extended beyond mere threats and has spilled into baseball related activities. Remember when he got suspended during the year of awful behavior in Durham because he got in a physical confrontation with one of his teammates at the team hotel? Remember when he got caught smoking weed with the windows of his SUV rolled down cruising through Tampa? Also, the fact that he’s fathered children with seven different women doesn’t speak to his responsibility.
In terms of the law, what Brett Myers did would typically get him a pretty similar punishment to what he got, which is to say “nothing” if his wife refuses to press charges. Dukes, on the other hand, has repeatedly done things to get himself into trouble with both his team and the law.
And yeah, Dukes is darker. Considering the American justice system, and the way baseball works, that means he’s got to be twice as careful as a guy like Brett Myers. The guys at Fire Joe Morgan may have retired, but their legacy lives on in the points they made about race in baseball. For a white guy anger problems are often characterized as “fire” or “passion”, and given a pass. For a black guy those same problems are going to make him a problem child. In baseball, white players are going to get more chances, even in this day and age.
I wish Elijah Dukes all the best, and hope he can get himself together. But, whether you like the characterization or not, he comes across like a thug, and no matter how wealthy and famous he is, that’s not going to help him in court. It’s easy to see him screwing up enough at some point to land himself in jail or out of the game.
If you want to get into the argument that color affects how personality is viewed, I’ll talk all day about Lastings Milledge, who, I’m pretty sure, would be considered a real gamer if he was white, but instead is considered to be a problem child (“Oh no, a rap album!”).
by Fanon on Apr 21, 2009 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems
by OldProspects on Apr 21, 2009 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
milledge
It was a little sad when NY papers went out of their way to slag him for stuff like slapping hands with fans going back into the field after he hit a homer his rookie year. I know you aren’t supposed to show up the vets, but you could play up the youthful enthusiasm angle more.
Mets also had the isue with Kazmir, where the vets like Leiter and Franco supposedly didn’t like how cocky he was. They also thought Burnett was a freak, although he helped them get Piazza.
Now Burnett has “grown” into a Yankee. The paragon of respectability. :)
by wobatus on Apr 21, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thoughts
Kazmir was supposedly a pretty big fan of weed while he was in the minors, which definitely didn’t help his cause. And Leiter and Franco were dragging the organization down at the end of their tenure.
But yeah, as far as the hand slapping, I believed at the time and still believe that the color of his skin made all the difference. If Hunter Pence had done that he would have been lauded for his boyish love of the game.
by Fanon on Apr 21, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
WOw.
Dukes has a history of misdemeanors of verbal harassment. Myers has a history of assaulting women. One is a criminal, the other is a mere asshole. No double standard here at all.
by slamcactus on Apr 21, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
mere asshole
Verbal harassment is one way of putting it. Sending hera text of a gun and saying I’m going to kill you and I will shoot at you even if the kids are in the car with you, and throwing stuff at her, leading to restarining orders and probation…well, that may be more than just “verbal harassment.” And again, who here is defending Brett Myers?
Hey, Elijah Dukes is out there, playing ball, making a living. No one is taking bread from his mouth, oh other than $500 fine. How exactly is Elijah Dukes being persecuted?
by wobatus on Apr 21, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes.
Those things are awful. They’re also the kinds of things that people can reform from. Dukes has gone 2 years incident-free. He doesn’t belong in jail any more than you or I do, because he hasn’t committed a felony.
I wouldn’t enjoy sharing a beer with the guy. My problem is with comments like “he’ll end up in jail.” The presumption that a young black man who has done some very bad things in his past is predestined to do even worse things in the future that will end with him being incarcerated really bothers me.
by slamcactus on Apr 21, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
dukes vs. world
i think you’re going a little too far saying dukes has only done verbal things. that’s not really true. there’ve been a variety of incidents involving physical contact – chokings, thrown objects, domestic rumbles, etc. from reading the rap sheet it kind of sounded like his ex-wife gave as good as she got most of the time – but as they say: girl hitting guy = funny, guy hitting girl = not funny.
still, before we take her at her word for everything that dukes allegedly did, consider: this is a person who made a conscious decision to marry elijah dukes.
i’ve never argued that he’s a saint. he’s clearly not. i’ve only ever made two main arguments about him:
(1) i think people vastly overrate the likelihood of his problems destroying his baseball career, given how good he is at baseball.
(2) considering what a disaster his upbringing sounds like it was, it actually strikes me as encouraging that he seems to have a good side in addition to a crazy side. he’s not dumb. intelligence and emotional control are two different things. he appears to love the game of baseball and play it hard, and i have the sense he does have a desire to be a better person than he’s been. people who get on elijah’s case (rightly) for his irresponsibility in fathering children, etc. – consider that dukes himself was once one of those abandoned children. as a result of his actions, some of them are probably going to grow up with problems – just like elijah did as a result of his own parents’ actions. when little ezekiel dukes shows up on the prospect lists with plus power and a similar rap sheet, will you condemn his behavior but hope he can get past it? or will you just hate him?
everyone says they’re not defending brett myers. but i have to admit, i’m curious if there would be a three-day uproar in the comments if somebody rated him in the top 40 starting pitchers for this year. just sayin’.
by wily mo on Apr 21, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
Of course he can reform. And I am not a calvinist so I don’t think he is predestined to end up in jail. if he were not a talented ballplayer, he might already be, from what I gather, but i can’t be too sure. And he doesn’t belong in jail absent conviction as an adult for a jailable offense. But, slamcactus, i think he may have come a wee bit closer to jailable offenses than you or I. Although I was born into luckier circumstances. I recently re-read John Rawl’s A Theory of Justice. No man is an island and all that. I saw Trading Places too. :)
by wobatus on Apr 21, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
Except he sent a picture of a gun to the mother of his children and threatened to kill her. And got picked up smoking herb while driving around. He’s gotten in physical confrontations with teammates. He impregnated the seventeen year old foster child of a family member when he was 22 (which, in many states, would have gotten him into some legal trouble, consensual or not).
Do I think Dukes belongs in jail? No. Have I said he belongs in jail? No. I do think that he has a very, very hard time staying out of trouble, and will never be a model citizen. What with his five children from four different mothers, Dukes is going to have a very hard time dealing with child support payments. We know he had a penchant for pot smoking that probably hasn’t disappeared. And he’s gotten in a lot of fights. And, if he’s not an athlete, and isn’t wealthy, the color of his skin is really going to count against him in a court of law. I’m not saying he belongs in jail. I’m just saying that the odds are stacked against him.
by Fanon on Apr 21, 2009 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dukes has physically assaulted at least three people
And two of them were women. I don’t know where you get your facts from.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on Apr 21, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"who’s never been convicted or accused of an actual violent crime"
He’s been accused of:
- Choking a teammate and picking him up by his neck (neither the team nor the player wanted to press charges)
- Throwing a remote control at his sister
- Punching a female cousin
- Sending his ex a picture of a gun and threatening to kill her and her children
Yes, none of that has happened in the past year, but to say he’s never been accused of a violent crime is just bunk. If he wasn’t a semi-famous baseball player, he’d be in prison by now.
This just isn’t true
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on Apr 21, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Im right here
and this is a heck of a lot different than threatening to kill your girlfriend.
by alskor on Apr 20, 2009 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here I am
No use in piling on here. I’ve said my peace about Dukes before, no need to repeat myself. I don’t think this is that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things, don’t see all the fuss over this particular incident.
by slurve on Apr 20, 2009 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just because it's funny
TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems
by OldProspects on Apr 21, 2009 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's more about management's poor reaction than anything Dukes did
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on Apr 21, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's doing
well for my fantasy team here’s hoping this doesn’t cost him too much playing time.
1941 .406
by FrozenTed9 on Apr 20, 2009 11:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
“We are going to change the culture here, regardless of how well a guy is playing. It was a bizarre situation, because he was doing something that we encourage our players to do. He was out in the community doing something for some Little League program, and he just showed up late for work. He was very remorseful about it. He felt bad, but we have to lay down the law. Regardless of who is out there, we are still losing ballgames. We have to change the culture somehow.”
—Nationals manager Manny Acta, on fining outfielder Elijah Dukes when he was late because he attended a Little League function. (Bill Ladson, MLB.com)
by lyon812 on Apr 21, 2009 12:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
the punishment
has nobody said anything about the fact that he was fined a whopping 500 bucks. As a guy who works in retail to pay for the beer he drinks at college, i understand some worth of money (though not entirely because i can’t imagine what its like to have to fully pay your way after high school). But the nationals did what was necessary, they didnt make an exception for someone being late, once you start making exceptions everyone wants one and will be coming up with great excuses for why they were late. This kind of leniency leads to discord and i believe that the players would take advantage of the new bargaining chip, conciously or not.
The team managed to say alright you shouldnt have been late, give us like .1% of your salary for breaking a rule (being late) while doing something that we encourage, next time dont be late. If someone is late for being out at a party, (just an example) im sure they would levy a larger fine to paint the picture that it is absolutely unacceptable behavior and if you do it again we will take serious action.
If you think that dukes handing over 500 dollars for this will confuse him in anyway you dont understand the kind of money these guys make.
by PHGold09 on Apr 21, 2009 8:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Manager VS GM
What I’m hearing is part of this is due to some sort of strife between Acta and the new GM which partially led to Milledge being sent down to AAA against Acta’s wishes. The rumor is that this was Acta’s way of getting back at the GM. Rumors and whatever but still interesting.
by Lunkwill Fook on Apr 21, 2009 9:22 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Pathetic management
This is just a case of desperate pathetic management. Acta and the the whole front office for that matter are in way over their heads. They are overreacting to little things to make it look like they have some kind of control which they don’t. Acta can try and keep his tough guy act when he’s unemployed.
“We are going to change the culture here, regardless of how well a guy is playing,” Acta said, according to MLB.com. "It was a bizarre situation, because he was doing something that we encourage our players to do. He was out in the community doing something for some Little League program and he just showed up late for work.
“He was very remorseful about it. He felt bad, but we have to lay down the law. Regardless of who is out there, we are still losing ballgames. We have to change the culture somehow.”
by GoldenSpikes24 on Apr 21, 2009 9:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well
It’s a tough situation, considering the front office has given Acta a terrible team to work with while also refusing to give him a vote of confidence. It’s a bad place for a GM to put a manager, and it’s the kind of situation that ends up setting a rebuilding team back as the manager tries to manage for his job instead of managing for the team.
by Fanon on Apr 21, 2009 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
repeat
I see now that the quote was already posted. But it sounds so stupid coming out of his mouth that you’ll probably have to read it twice anyway. Acta is trying to treat this like its High School instead of the major leagues.
by GoldenSpikes24 on Apr 21, 2009 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In high school
you aren’t given several hundred grand minimum just for showing up.
by wobatus on Apr 21, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
coaching
the HS reference is in regards to coaching, the complete control act doesn’t work with pros making more money than the coach. especially when that coach wont have the same job this time next year.
by GoldenSpikes24 on Apr 21, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
in the major leagues
you can fine guys. happens all the time. You can bench guys. happens all the time. You can send them down to the minors even if they are good players to set an example. happens all the time.
Lots of talented guys have been punished by managers. No, you can’t tell him to stay after school. I don’t necessarily agree with what the nationals did. Seems like they could have let this slide. But saying we are not going to accept extenuating circumstances and apply rules evenly, doesn’t seem like he is going all high school on Dukes.
He’s got a job. He’s got a boss. Closer to the real world then players usually hae to deal with. Elijah Dukes or anyone else. Although bosses usually don’t fine you.
by wobatus on Apr 21, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's perfect
That is exactly what they needed to say.
by alskor on Apr 21, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In case you missed, the Little League is paying Dukes' fine
and adding $1 for “transaction costs”. $500 is what Dukes was paid to appear at the Great Falls LL Opening Day ceremony. He sat through the teams parade, speeches, made a speech, gave high 5’s to all 500 Little Leaguers, then as soon as it was over, raced to his car.
It’s a rather well-to-do Little League, they had a Redskin there too. I believe the team, in turn, is donating the money to a SE DC Little League.
WaPo article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/20/AR2009042003203.html
by VladiHondo on Apr 21, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nice of him
Wouldn’t deny that. So Nationals. How’s the lesson going?
by wobatus on Apr 21, 2009 1:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't have a probelm with this alone
but come on, have you seen some of the roster moves in Washington lately? They don’t make no sense.
Mourning Guy Carbonneau...
Royals obscure player to watch in ST: Lenny DiNardo
by playingwithfire on Apr 21, 2009 5:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You have to wonder how many of the kids in the Little League were his.
Odds are there were a couple…
by Grapeweasel on Apr 21, 2009 5:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I figured he
was there scouting the single mom talent.
by smoooooth on Apr 26, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Question: 10 years from now....
Who’s the better player, Elijah Dukes or Delmon Young?
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Apr 21, 2009 9:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Delmon's got a loooooong ways to go
to make that a fight.
by PissedMick on Apr 21, 2009 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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