Schilling
by John Sickels on Apr 10, 2009 5:28 PM EDT
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I was going to do a Prospect Retro on Curt Schilling, but it turns out I already did.
http://www.minorleagueball.com/2007/3/23/154119/013
Normally my memory about those things is really good, but apparently I need to actually run the search engine on that now. . .we've done a lot of retros over the past few years.
Anyway, Curt is officially retired now. There has been some wondering about if he's Hall of Fame Caliber or not. 216-146, .597, 3.46 ERA with 127 ERA+, 3116 strikeouts. . .certainly people have gotten into the Hall with less. His Top 10 Sim Scores:
Kevin Brown
Bob Welch
Orel Hershiser
Freddie Fitzsimmons
John Smoltz
Milt Pappas
Don Drysdale
Dazzy Vance
Jim Perry
Catfish Hunter
Drysdale, Vance, and Hunter made it in, and Smoltz will be a candidate.
Black Ink Test: 42 (Average HOFer=40)
Gray Ink Test: 205 (Average HOFer=185)
Hall of Fame Monitor 171 (Likely HOFer=100)
Hall of Fame Standards 46 (Average HOFer=50)
My guess is that he'll get in, but probably not on the first ballot. I don't have a problem with that.
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Schilling
He was rather outspoken as a player and seems to engender a lot of vocal hatred from fans (not of him.) This hatred has creeped into some of the HOF discussion regarding him that I’ve seen. I’m hoping that after a more objective look at his career that what he actually did on the field will rule the day. He had a pretty good stretch as a dominating pitcher and he also won a lot of big games, including in the post-season.
It’s a close call based on the numbers, but he’ll probably get in eventually.
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by nostocksjustbonds on Apr 10, 2009 6:30 PM EDT reply actions
Keltner
On my own blog, I ran down his case through the Keltner list, comparing him to Smoltz, Brown and David Wells. I think Schilling was a cut below Smoltz, who had Schilling’s career as a starter + 3 years as a closer. But he’s definitely worthy of the HOF.
Right...
It mystifies me that there seems to be a group of people who dont understand John Smoltz is a slam dunk for the HOF. He is first ballot, sure thing.
Schilling isnt that far behind him. I would be pretty surprised if Schill didnt make it. He’s a HOFer, alright. Not inner circle but he belongs in there. Its not even a “he’s better than the worst HOFers” kind of argument – he’s better than some very worthy HOFers. He measures up well by any standard.
Postseason
Don’t forget his postseason track record — that’s probably what will end up getting him over the hump into Cooperstown. BBReference says 11-2 with a 2.23 ERA, WHIP under 1.000.
I agree.
I expect Schilling being part of the great storry of that Boston team will carry weight with HOF voters. Schilling gets a good “lore” bonus on his HOF application.
www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage
by James Quinn on Apr 11, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions
I think he's a slam dunk
Even when taken the typically odd / dumb / silly voting trends of the BBWAA..
Stats guys : he’s career value is clearly there, espically considering how dominant he is (best k/bb ratio of any post 1900 guys alone should be enough to get anyone in)
Old guys : ZOMG TEH BLOODY SOX!!!!!!!!
His lore is more than bloody sock
though that is a heck of a baseball story to have behind you.
He was perhaps the greatest playoff pitcher ever. You wanna talk big game? Go back to the Phils vs. Jays. Dominant with the Dbacks… even with the 07 Sox. He had that next gear that is so rare in a pitcher.
Career postseason numbers: 11-2, 2.23 ERA, 133.1 IP, 104 H, 9 HR, 25 BB, 120 K,
His career postseason reads like an All Star season.
I see it both ways
He had some great seasons and definitely pitched well in the playoffs. However, at the same time, he did not have that many “great” season, mostly due to injuries and I think that’s why he falls on the borderline.
If I had a vote, I would keep him out. But at the same time, I wouldn’t be disappointed if he got in.
Then again, I think Smoltz is just above the borderline cut (ie. I think he should get in but it shouldn’t be easy). I think, what it comes down to, is that I don’t value postseason stats nearly as much as I do regular season.
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