Porcello, Perry in Tigers Rotation and Bullpen
by demondeaconsbaseball on Apr 1, 2009 11:08 AM EDT
33 comments
According to Dombrowski, anyways.
I'm not sure if this is a good idea, especially in the case of Porcello. Best case scenario is that he turns into a Kershaw-lite this year, but I don't think the Tigers are going to catch that much luck. Is there any chance Porcello puts up an ERA around league average, because it doesn't look like he's the one getting sent down when Bonderman comes back.
Perry, on the other hand, seems to be a relatively polished college reliever. I know his fastball is pretty impressive, but his secondary stuff is (supposedly) lacking pretty badly. I think he could also use some time in AAA.
Honestly, I hope the Tigers aren't screwing up the only good things in our farm system out of some misguided attempt to compete this year- I can only hope that Porcello and Perry go down if it turns out we're 10 GB in May.
So what do you guys think? Are the Tigers risking their only good prospects? Is it worth it?
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Seriously?
They’re pulling Porcello straight from A+ to the major leagues? Even Kershaw was given a chance (albeit only 61 IP) to dominate in AA
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by OldProspects on Apr 1, 2009 11:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
BIG MISTAKE
See Jeremy Bonderman. The potential is there, but he really needs more time. Problem is, the Tigers are an aging team so Dombrowski may figure this is their last chance. It probably will fail, and they will need a massive overhaul at some point to rebuild their roster and may soon return to playing like the Tigers of not so long ago (when they sucked).
Perry is less of a mistake than Porcello, he could try to pull a Morrow and improve his secondary stuff without the time in the minors, but it’s still a pretty big risk and an unneccesary one at that. But with these two off to the majors, this I can say with certainty: NOW the Tigers undoubtedly have the worst farm system out of any major league team.
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by The Congo Hammer on Apr 1, 2009 11:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Objection!!!
There is no way of knowing if Bonderman would have turned out better had he spent more time in the minors. It’s not like he has been a total bust to begin with – his ERA+ was among the league’s best in 2006 and the last 2 years have seen him dealing with injuries. The kid is still 26 for Christ’s sake and the book is still WIDE open on him.
by slurve on Apr 1, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm not saying Bondo's a total bust
And I’m not saying Porcello will be either. I think it was pretty clear he wasn’t ready though when he debuted, and there was no real reason to bring him up yet into that TIgers stinkhole. How can losing 19 games in your rookie season on a sucky team possibly be good for your development? This situation is a little different, but still, you can look back on any prospect and try to figure out how things could have gone differently if this had happened, if the team had done this, etc. but generally many different samples will show the result, and I think Bondo’s is one of someone who probably would have had considerably better initial success were he not rushed.
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by The Congo Hammer on Apr 1, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hard to say that when
he put up a 112 ERA+ within 3 years of his MLB debut. I think he did just fine. Wins and losses are meaningless.
by slurve on Apr 1, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ah but he could have been better
And even though ERA+ is the measure of your choice, fact of the matter is he still never had a season with a sub 4 ERA…that can’t all be bad luck can it? He may have done “just fine” but he perhaps could have/should have turned into a legitimate ace pitcher if he had better seasoning in the minors. Likewise, Porcello may eventually be good, but maybe not as great as he could have been if he had spent more time refining his secondary stuff and control in Triple-A, much less Double-A. Mature or not, such a huge jump can’t possibly have long-term benefits on the players’ career path
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by The Congo Hammer on Apr 1, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Woulda, shoulda, coulda
He also may have been mishandled in the minors and completely fell out of sight. You have no way of knowing one way or the other – it’s Kentucky windage and not worth debating. I can’t believe you’re actually complaining about a 4.08 ERA from a 23 year old at the major league level, who threw over 200 innings, struck out over 200 batters and had a relatively decent walk rate. Unbelievable how lofty people’s expectations can be at times.
by slurve on Apr 1, 2009 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
economy, fanbase
I think Dombrowski is well aware of the economic situation in Detroit and knows the Tigers will be in serious trouble if they don’t compete this year. Under that prism, and when Porcello’s only competition is Nate Robertson and Dontrelle Willis, it’s not surprising that they are going with Porcello.
His groundball rate coupled with Everett and Inge manning the left side of the infield should help some. And his control seems to be pretty good for a 20 year old or whatever age he is. This is going to probably hurt the development of his slider/curve. He had went mostly with the curve last year, and there was talk this spring about bringing the slider back into his arsenal; I’m guessing that plan is now scrapped. I don’t know how good the curve is right now, I’m sure it’s not a MLB strike-out pitch, so I assume he’s going to have to pitch to contact. I think he can maintain an ERA in the mid 4s without too much trouble, and this is better than any other option the Tigers have.
Perry’s fastball is supposedly electric; he’s now supposedly throwing a two-seam with good movement at about 95-97 that goes along with the straight 100 mph four-seam. Now that he’s throwing the two-seam, I’m much higher on him as a prospect as he doesn’t have much deception, so unless he had pinpoint accuracy, he was probably going to get hit. He’s been throwing a slider in ST with good results…i.e. its frozen a couple of hitters sitting on the fastball. Not afraid to throw it for strike 1 or strike 3. But I don’t know how good of a pitch it is stand-alone. Not surprisingly, it’s most likely to come down to control for Ryan.
by The Fume on Apr 1, 2009 11:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
entertaining discussion regarding Porcello's ETA from 1 1/2 years ago
made me laugh at least!
by Wheelhouse on Apr 1, 2009 12:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
LOL
So much for my comment:
I think the bigger point here… Is that Detroit may not HAVE to rush Porcello. They have a very solid core of youngsters in that rotation, and if they avoid severe injuries, Porcello will not be needed until 2010.
by guru4u on Apr 2, 2009 8:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Par for the course
if they’re trying to mimic the Lions aptitude.
by sloffy on Apr 1, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey hey hey
Dave Dombrowski is about a billion times smarter than Matt Millen. Plus the Tigers have won something in the past ten years.
by demondeaconsbaseball on Apr 1, 2009 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm kind of excited
will they let him use the slider right away?
by daveh33 on Apr 1, 2009 12:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
interesting....
As far as Perry goes..its probably not a huge transition….many RPs are pretty close right out of college.
Porcello is a different story, being an SP.
Obviously its not a very comon thing to do nowadays but this isn’t the first time it’s happened. I think people need to be careful not to generalize and group every P together and say its a bad idea because they dont think the kid can handle it. I believe a lot has to do with the maturity of the player and also how mentally strong he is. If Porcello isn’t one to get rattled quickly, then who’s to say its an insane idea?
I know history is against this type of move but I strongly believe that pitchers today are being too babied.
We already know his stuff is there, so if Porcello has an advanced approach to the game then I don’t see the harm in giving him at least a look.
by barlow078 on Apr 1, 2009 12:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Im not saying Porcello can't handle it
Im saying its insane to take the risk with a guy as good as this. They have other guys they can throw in those spots. Im not worried as much about the on field side(though it is a concern). We’re talking about a pretty young kid here who is being pushed into a role where he is almost certainly going to be seen as the savior of this pitching staff.
Considering they didnt let him throw his breaking ball last season it seems like a pretty bad risk to take to ask him to start working with that AND adjust to the major leagues.
Finally, to get this year of Porcello dealing with the adjustment to MLB youre giving up on the back end a year of prime Porcello. That’s not a great value trade off.
For all THOSE reasons I would call this insane.
You know what this smells like? Dombrowski and Leyland realizing their jobs are on the line. I think they just figured out what the rest of us knew – they dont have enough pitching. Theyre pushing aside two starting pitchers they recently signed to extensions (DTrain and Nate Robertson) to put a 20 year old kid in the rotation?? Desperation.
by alskor on Apr 1, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
shame on them.
this probably has something to do with it though.
by daveh33 on Apr 1, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
absolutely correct
You know what this smells like? Dombrowski and Leyland realizing their jobs are on the line. I think they just figured out what the rest of us knew – they dont have enough pitching. Theyre pushing aside two starting pitchers they recently signed to extensions (DTrain and Nate Robertson) to put a 20 year old kid in the rotation?? Desperation.
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
by flipgatey3 on Apr 1, 2009 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't believe in absolutes
Unless it’s vodka, of course.
“Pushing aside” is not a term I’d use to describe going with Porcello over a pitcher who has COMPLETELY lost his way. The wheels came off D-Train last year – he was literally a “train wreck”. Putting someone in there who is more capable instead of just using the guy you signed to a bad extension is not desperation – it’s common sense. Too many times we see the higher paid player out there just because of the contract situation when there is a better alternative on the bench or even in the minors.
The Tigers were told by the owner that spending was not to be in their vocabulary this off-season. You have to make do with what you can. At this point I think it’s very reasonable, if not highly likely that Porcello can outperform Robertson and Willis. Good thing they didn’t do something stupid and trade him for a closer…
by slurve on Apr 2, 2009 7:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree in part
If it were me, I’d have Porcello replace Bonderman in the rotation. Once Bondo comes back, send Rick to AA or AAA and maybe slide Robertson in the rotation in place of Zach Miner.
Having the kid get his feet wet isn’t a bad idea, but having him stay for any length of time is going to be risky.
by demondeaconsbaseball on Apr 1, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mistake/okay
Having Porcello in the majors now certainly seems penny-wise/pound-foolish. I only hope they curtail his innings. Maybe being beaten around by the big boys will help do the trick…
On the other hand, I like Perry in the bigs. To me it’s a totally different situation for a reliever. I’d even go a step further – I’d even see how he responds to tough game situations and dabble with him as a closer. I think it’s easier to recover mentally, as a young guy, from a couple blown saves, than from getting shellacked as a starter.
The wind is in the buffalo.
by journeymen on Apr 1, 2009 12:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I like your Perry argument
Having him get shaken for a little may be the best thing for him. Worst case is we send him down to AAA to develop some secondary stuff and he comes back no worse for wear.
by demondeaconsbaseball on Apr 1, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was hoping
this was an april fools day prank…
by son.of.sourman on Apr 1, 2009 1:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Porcello - Bonderman
I really hope that Porcello doesn’t go the road of Bonderman. I’m afraid that he will.
by Fanon on Apr 1, 2009 6:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What exactly is so bad
about the road of Bonderman? His 2006 season was above league average as a 23 year old. He’s been injured the past 1.5 years. Injuries happen no matter if they pitch in the minors or the bigs. I really don’t get this Bonderman = doom. At all.
by slurve on Apr 1, 2009 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
People tend to forget that the thoratic blood clot messed up his pitching in the second half of 2007. He almost earned an All Star nod based on his first half numbers. Is the injury caused by a lack of time in the minors?
by demondeaconsbaseball on Apr 1, 2009 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
must be.
I think Maddon needs to put Kazmir back in AAA to start the year and get him warmed up. you know, get his arm plenty of those healthy minor league innings.
by daveh33 on Apr 1, 2009 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like Bonderman
he has been a pretty decent pitcher when healthy. I don’t believe that being in the majors has had anything to do with his problems or has held him back. The two things I see hampering Bonderman’s development are that he doesn’t have a quality change up/ third pitch to go with his fastball slider combo. Also, he has a fiery demeanor on the mound, which I like. But his emotions can sometimes get the better of him and that can lead him to getting rattled and overthrowing, getting wild, and just generally losing composure. I’m not sold another year in the minors would have affected these too much. Could he have worked on his change, sure, but his fastball and slider would have been good enough to overmatch minor league batters, so would he have put the work in, and whats from stopping him from doing it in the majors now.
by smoooooth on Apr 2, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Saturday the 4th, Porcello.
2 IP, 1 H, 1 K.
25 pitches, 20 for strikes.
4 GO, 1 FO.
by daveh33 on Apr 4, 2009 3:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
At least they have a plausible excuse for rushing players,
given that the creaking, ancient roster is going to be defunct within two seasons. Might as well roll the dice; odds are it won’t work out, but as Tojo would say, sometimes one simply has to jump off the platform at Kiyomizu Temple…
Can’t say that about the Cahill/Anderson promotions.
Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"
by PaulThomas on Apr 5, 2009 1:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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