Thoughts on Gordon Beckham
by joltinjoe on Mar 9, 2009 8:50 PM EDT
40 comments
As a White Sox fan and Beckham fantasy owner, I'm very interested in what kind of a player he could develop into.
BP has his upside at Chase Utley and I've also heard Michael Young comps.
I asked John during his Q&A hour and he said Beckham could be like Chase Utley at SS or M. Young.
With Alexei Ramirez moving to SS, it appears that Beckham will be playing 2B. It was generally assumed that he would start the year in the minors (probably AA) and maybe make the majors next year.
However, Beckham has played pretty well so far, or at least better than Getz and Lillibridge, and it appears the Sox are considering breaking camp with him starting at 2B.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-09-white-sox-chicagomar09,0,2643671.story
My question for the community is what kind of production can I expect to see out of him during his peak and what about this year if he makes the team?
Remember, opinions are like noses...... (they all blow) --- sorry, couldn't resist. I see that put at the bottom of so many posts and I find it stupid and redundant.
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Send him to High-A
I’m sure Beckham is better then the pile of shit that is Getz, Lillibridge & Nix. But let the guy get some time in the minors and adjust to pro ball. 8 monthes ago he’s playing in college and the White Sox are gonna thrust him into the majors already. He’s good, let him have a year in the minors and he’ll be up soon enough.
by hellview on Mar 10, 2009 12:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Pile of ish?
Getz, Lillibridge, and Nix are probably all at least replacement level players right now and could be quite a bit more. Nix was a 1st round talent that has shown speed and power in the minors, only turning 26 this season. Getz looks like he could be a backup infielder with the a small chance of being a starter on a poor team. Finally, Lillibridge is going to be playing his 25 year old season this year and has plenty of potential still.
If 1/3 of them turns into a regular they could easily be more valuable than Beckham combined.
by tdot mariner fan on Mar 10, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't be surprised if Getz managed to be an average player for a while.
As for the other two, the talent is there(Nix probably has as much as any of them) but the consistency is the issue. As for Getz, he has everything you like to see from someone at his age and skill-set.
by Daniel Berlyn on Mar 10, 2009 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beckham
I’d send him to AA to open the year and then move him accordingly. I don’t think he’ll need much time and could debut in Chicago in mid-late 2009. I’ve personally likened him to recent high pick college guys like Longoria and Tulowitzki, guys who can move quick and have an immediate impact in the majors. All three of them also get high marks for their makeup.
by rdf8585 on Mar 10, 2009 12:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd have him start the year in the majors...
as he’s clearly the best option at 2B for the White Sox and he’s polished enough to make the transition. Too much is made on having guys get minor league. Plenty of good players have skipped the majors and gone on to have great careers and he gives them the best chance to win, now. Beckman is having a great. ST. Regardless, he’ll be the starting 2B before season’s end. Maybe a mini-Chase Utley at his peak as i don’t see him hitting for quite the same average nor power.
by Havok1517 on Mar 10, 2009 1:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
um like who?
there have been like 2 lol.
by jsmall404 on Mar 10, 2009 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the...
only one i can think of is Olerud.
by slamcactus on Mar 10, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
recent others:
Dave Winfield & Jim Abbot
by kazuokev on Mar 10, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pete Incagvilia
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Mar 11, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Start in Minors
I’d start him in high A for a month, let him show he can dominate that level, jump him to the Southern League, and then if he proves he’s ready, give him a callup in late June/July.
by samjjones on Mar 10, 2009 7:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
I still think that SOME combination of Getz, Nix, and Lillibridge can be decent. Even if two prove they can’t handle it, I can’t believe that all three will.
by Navi's_Navy on Mar 10, 2009 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
There’s almost no way that he doesn’t start in AA Birmingham. Firstly, he needs to build his confidence against this competition. If he’s that good then he’ll be in AAA Charlotte in a few months.
Also, the Sox need to give these 3 guys a shot. They’ve all earned it and put in their time in all the classes of the minors. It would be a bad idea to diss these guys and promote Beckham after a good few weeks of spring. Many players have flopped after such a small sample time.
If they promoted Beckham ahead of these guys right now and he flops the Sox would be messing all of them up. The Sox aren’t that dumb. Beckham starts in the minors. Bank on it.
by NLaloosh on Mar 10, 2009 12:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If he's a mini-Utley
Let’s remember that Utley was a college draft pick with similar pedigree (15th overall in 2000) and didn’t reach the majors until 2003, and didn’t establish himself or play a full season until 2005 (his 26 year old season). He may be the only one impressing in spring training, but it’s not like the Sox are lacking in options at second. Look no further than Jesus Flores to see what rushing a guy to the majors can do to his development.
by Fanon on Mar 10, 2009 1:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
To be fair
Beckham seems like he has quite a bit more polish coming out of college and Utley was held back for a year or two because of the presence of Polanco. I’m not saying Beckham should start in the majors or anything, I actually believe he should probably be in AA to start, but if he takes as long as Utley did to take over as a full time starter I think that would be a pretty big disappointment (though if he hits like Utley from there on out it doesn’t really matter how long it takes).
by nixa37 on Mar 10, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Utley was
at one point in the minors indeed considered disappointing. I think this was at some point after he struggled at the plate and in the field the year they moved him to 3b as a threat of sorts to Rolen’s agent.
by nms on Mar 10, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
they moved him to 3b as a threat of sorts to Rolen’s agent.
untill he saw him throw. My sister looks more manly throwing the ball.
by rglass44 on Mar 10, 2009 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's gonna be a Good one
I’d compare him to…..well how about a cross between
Brian Roberts
&
Ian Kinsler
if he’s as near as good as anyone of those guys the White Sox are really in for something.
watch out~
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Mar 10, 2009 5:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Sandberg?
I don’t see this guy hitting 30-35 hr’s while providing Gold Glove defense and being a regular MVP candidate. I see him more along the lines of Brett Boone without the 35-40 years, providing solid defense. I think he’ll be good but not great.
"When Justin Upton faces Lincecum, I think Christ might appear in the heavens, and the world will end." -JakeFree
by JT12340 on Mar 12, 2009 2:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well he was talking about "upside"
I don’t think that is unreasonable for his “absolute best case scenario.” As for Sandberg, he hit more than 26 HR twice. In terms of power, he was really more of a 15-25 HR (save for that one amazing year where he hit 40), which was still quite noteworthy for a 2B in the 80s and early 90s. Sandberg’s 162 game avg:
21 HR, .285/.344/.452, 114 OPS+
I don’t think that is out of the realm of possibility for Beckham.
by aCone419 on Mar 12, 2009 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like Beckham
i think he’s a different player than Utley and will have more power than Young. Sandberg is a pretty decent comp, if a tad ambitious. Perhaps Ian Kinsler
"Sometimes Joe (morgan) doesn't like facts to get in the way of his opinions."- billy beane
"That was a great pick...if this was 2002" Me, to guy who selected Barry Zito in a fantasy draft
www.27ClubPeak.blogspot.com
by harendaman365 on Mar 10, 2009 8:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Gordon vs. Tim
Slightly off topic, but is Tim Beckham’s upside really much greater than Gordon’s? I mean, considering what everyone here is saying, Gordon looks like a safer pick who can move more quickly, perhaps a better move for a contending team? Why’d the Rays choose Tim?
by Fanon on Mar 11, 2009 5:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Organizational philosophy?
The Rays love to get their hands on highly coachable toolsy prep players. Gordon Beckham rates very highly from the mental side of things but isn’t especially toolsy, a solid athlete but not more. Tim was basically the closest thing in the draft to the prototype Rays pick . . .Buster Posey did come close.
Beckham’s perceived ability to play a good SS is a big plus in the comparison. Optimistic grades for Tim Beckham would be something like 65 contact, 50 power, 60 speed, 60 glove at SS. For Gordon Beckham, something like 60 contact, 65 power, 50 speed, 60 glove at 2B? Obviously those could change a lot once we actually see how they perform under the day-in day-out grind of pro ball, but those numbers seem pretty reasonable to me.
by mrkupe on Mar 12, 2009 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Defense and position
Who’s more valuable the plus-defensive SS that hits for average, some pop, and has speed or the decent 2B with more power, about the same average, and less speed?
by rglass44 on Mar 12, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
G. Beckham is a SS
He’s just moving to 2b because of Alexei Ramirez. From all accounts, he could play a solid SS in MLB.
by joltinjoe on Mar 12, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then why move a solid SS to 2B so a bad 2B can move to SS?
I know the ChiSox don’t understand this whole defense phenomenon, but that seems stupid. Last year Ramirez was bad at second, so moving him to SS will make him better?
by rglass44 on Mar 13, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, there's no tools reason why Alexei can't be a good SS
he’s still learning on the job… i would never have done that if I ran the team, but it does make some sense…
by alskor on Mar 13, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His range?
I mean last year he was below average in every measure (including PMR) at 2B. How does he have the range to play SS?
by rglass44 on Mar 13, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's very quick
as I said its a tools/scouting based explanation, but there is some reason to believe he can play SS well.
Most of the major defensive measures deem a year too small a sample. UZR is supposed to work best with a three year sample, for instance. So, its too early to close the book on how he shows up in metrics
Also, he was adjusting to America, and players have defensive slumps just like they have offensive slumps, so again – too early to take any of this as a true talent level
Lastly, he was a SS, not a 2B in Cuba… so he was learning a new position at the MLB level, in a new country…
So, there are reasons to believe he could end up a pretty good SS… Im not a huge believer and Id probably move him to CF if it were up to me (Or AAA, for that matter, until he learns to be a little more selective). I really dont like the idea of him learning on the job, but I understand what theyre thinking… which is saying something… b/c usually Ken Williams makes no sense at all to me.
by alskor on Mar 13, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Contention
The difference between Tim and Gordon seems pretty minimal, and for a contending team, the guy who is going to move a bit quicker. And when Gordon was drafted his defense at short was considered pretty solid, from everything I heard. I don’t think the difference is that great, and I’d think that if the Rays realized that last year was for real they might have picked Gordon, as he could probably be their starting shortstop by midseason this year (although they do seem to be emphasizing strong defense from the position these days).
by Fanon on Mar 13, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d think that if the Rays realized that last year was for real they might have picked Gordon
So you think the FO thinks they were just faking it?
No I think they took the guy with higher upside that will be part of a second wave of talent. Rather than just trying to win now they are looking toward the future as well.
by rglass44 on Mar 13, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All right
After thinking about it for awhile I have to say there is really no way I would take Gordon over Tim.
Tim is a much better athlete, better tools, faster and a better defender. What does Gordon have over him? Some power.
Ceiling wise, it would be incredibly foolish to rank Gordon over Tim. Both in real life and in fantasy.
by alskor on Mar 14, 2009 2:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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