the phenom has arrived
by Asfan4ever723 on Mar 9, 2009 5:52 PM EDT
41 comments
a couple write ups and video from A's beatwriters of his throwing session this morning. apparently, he'll spendind time in arizona extended spring training then head to short season Van in the summer. looks like he has a smooth delivery. this guy may either end up king felix part II or daniel cabrera, jr. the hype has definitely begun with his higher than expected rankings in the BA/BP top 100
the "beautiful eyes" comment from fake jairo was funny
also apparently another team offered $1mill more than the A's...guessing its rangers
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=21&entry_id=36736
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Money
The Reds and Rangers both offered more money than the A’s and one of them actually offered him a major league deal.
by dougdirt on Mar 9, 2009 6:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yep,
and the Rangers offered him the most; JD was really mad after because the A’s supposedly had the deal done elegaly before the date to offer a contract. and wanted an investigation, IIRC.
"It doesn't look like he's trying. It kinda pisses me off," "He could throw 110 if he tried. The way it explodes out of his hand is really something special." ~ B-Mac on Feliz.
by Kinslerhomer on Mar 9, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
elegaly?
sorry i could not resist..“illegally”
by jsmall404 on Mar 9, 2009 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
heh,
accidentally hit post instead of preview.
"It doesn't look like he's trying. It kinda pisses me off," "He could throw 110 if he tried. The way it explodes out of his hand is really something special." ~ B-Mac on Feliz.
by Kinslerhomer on Mar 9, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
I remember an article saying Inoa (Ynoa?) hasn’t even aware of an offer other than the A’s — the whole situation was fishy….
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Mar 9, 2009 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, here is part of what I remember:
The Rangers were not at all happy about losing out on 16-year-old Dominican right-hander Michael Inoa to the A’s last week, and not just because Inoa cited Oakland’s better pitching-development program as his reason for signing with them.
The Rangers felt like the A’s, who gave Inoa a $4.25 million signing bonus, most ever to a non-Cuban pitcher from Latin America, violated the rules by cutting an early deal with the 6-foot-7, 205-pounder.
According to MLB rules, teams are not even allowed to discuss money with players before the July 2 deadline. The Rangers were prepared to offer a larger signing bonus — well over $5 million, according to some reports — and word on the street is that afterward Inoa’s agent told a Rangers official that they would have taken the bigger deal if they had known it was coming and hadn’t already committed to the A’s.
If that’s true, then the deal was always more about money than about pitcher-development reputations.
"It doesn't look like he's trying. It kinda pisses me off," "He could throw 110 if he tried. The way it explodes out of his hand is really something special." ~ B-Mac on Feliz.
by Kinslerhomer on Mar 9, 2009 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agent?
That’s a pretty crappy agent if he took money offers from one team without following through to see if there were other offers on the table, be it before or after the official opening date. He should have known better than to end up in that position.
by Fanon on Mar 9, 2009 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
or maybe he just really thinks signing with the A's is the best...
option for his client long-term. The Reds and Rangers have terrible histories of developing pitching…
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Mar 9, 2009 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rangers don't have a terrible history of developing pitchers
they just have a terrible history of keeping the pitchers they develop.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Mar 9, 2009 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, but did you read the above clipping?
According to the story Inoa’s agent said that if they knew that a larger offer was on the table (from the Rangers) they would have taken that. If that’s true, then he really screwed up.
by Fanon on Mar 10, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Maybe the agent was actually born yesterday, but it’s probably best not to assume as much ahead of time.
Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"
by PaulThomas on Mar 10, 2009 3:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it walks like a duck...
I find it hard to believe the agent was really that bad. If Ynoa was really all about the money, and the agent turned down and extra million and major league contract without telling his cliant, then he needs to be fired for malpractice. I find it VERY hard to believe an experianced agent would do something that dumb.
I suspect he was trying to smooth things over after his player insulted the Rangers organization in the newspapers. Makes a HELL of a lot more sense that way.
Sometimes life will strike you out on a curve ball and the only choice you have is to flip off the umpire and walk to first base anyway.
by Threepwood XX on Mar 10, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As I recall, the Yankees and Inoa had a handshake deal at significantly less a good bit before the a’s stepped in.
In any case, talking money before said date is standard practice in latin america. Every team knows this, so the complaints of texas just sounds like sour grapes.
Adoptive Parent of Francisco Peguero. He can throw, he can run, he can hit(fastballs), and he's Dominican. What else do you need to know?
by haverecords on Mar 9, 2009 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup
Reportedly, the Yanks were so pissed at Ynoa for backing out on the handshake agreement that they refused to raise their offer. It may have seemed stupid not to make an exception for a talent like Ynoa, but they had to hold the line, otherwise Boras and other agents would keep utilizing this tactic to extract more money from the Yanks. I can’t really blame Ynoa for taking the higher offer, I just wish that the Yankees could have worked things out with him.
http://mvn.com/milb-yankees/
by lemonjello on Mar 9, 2009 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heh
So basically other teams just need to break the rules a little more — got it.
I don’t think it’s animosity towards the A’s from the Rangers — it’s annoyance that MLB lets stuff like this go without policing it at all. It’s obviously a problem — look at the buscon investigation and bonus skimming that the Nats are going through.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Mar 10, 2009 8:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Policing in Latin America
Considering how unsafe things are for Americans in Venezuela and Mexico these days, I think they get a pass on not policing everything. All the MLB needs is a top official to get kidnapped while he’s down there making sure bonuses are being handed out properly. As for the DR? Less excusable.
by Fanon on Mar 10, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't buy that
But I see what you are saying.
I think it is because they flat out don’t care.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Mar 10, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem with it being the Rangers lashing out at the system and not the A's is
The Rangers broke the exact same rules the exact same way the A’s did.
Both teams made offers before the signing date, the only difference is that the Rangers got turned down and then had Ynoa tell all the news organizations (and prospects in Latin America who were following him) that the reason he took less was because the Rangers had a sub-par development system.
The Rangers are being hypocrites, plain and simple.
Sometimes life will strike you out on a curve ball and the only choice you have is to flip off the umpire and walk to first base anyway.
by Threepwood XX on Mar 10, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can you link to where
it says the Rangers made an offer before the signing date? I do not believe I have heard that anywhere, in fact it has been the exact opposite — the Rangers were pissed that they made an offer ON the correct date but were told by his agent the A’s already had a deal in place (meaning before the date).
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Mar 10, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not exactly. Really, all teams who signs Latin American players—especially in the Dominican—do this. And they have to if they want to sign the top players. The Buscones run that world, not MLB, and there isn’t much MLB can do about it—considering that MLB wants star players, and teams need talent). The rule just isn’t appropriate to the situation.
And, by the way, the bonus skimming situation—though more common than some realize—is something different, and skimming is actually a criminal offense under the jurisdiction of State Governments. That is a huge difference.
Adoptive Parent of Francisco Peguero. He can throw, he can run, he can hit(fastballs), and he's Dominican. What else do you need to know?
by haverecords on Mar 10, 2009 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I know all that
But to act like MLB can’t have some influence on the situation is laughable. I’m not exactly going out on a limb by saying they need to assert a little control down there.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Mar 11, 2009 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Beane read Bowden's version of Moneyball.
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on Mar 9, 2009 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
rangers grievance
is sooo BS!!!! haverecords said, all teams talk money before they’re allowed to. even they didn’t, it’s not they didn’t know the rangers, Reds and/or others were not going to try and sign Ynoa.
I doubt there is an agent out there that just jumps on the 1st offer(or 2nd offer allegedly in this case) when knowing how much pub his client in getting.
I also remember hearing that the A’s, Reds and rangers had made/or rumored to have made offers before he signed.
by Berserk on Mar 9, 2009 11:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
The whole hissy fit was the Rangers trying to save face after Ynoa dissed their organization by taking a million less because he felt the Rangers couldn’t develop pitching.
There has also been bad blood between the A’s and the Rangers front offices for years. The Rangers front office never miss a chance to exaggerate facts to try to get under the A’s skin.
Sometimes life will strike you out on a curve ball and the only choice you have is to flip off the umpire and walk to first base anyway.
by Threepwood XX on Mar 10, 2009 1:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was a bit of a hissy fit, but the line about Ynoa preferring the A’s due to their history with pitchers was mostly propaganda on the part of the A’s. The money, and timing of how Oakland played its hand was important in that process.
From what I know, it just seems Texas didn’t play their hand right. It is important to note that there was not any such hissy fit on the part of the reds—who are certainly one of the best at picking up Latin American talent.
Adoptive Parent of Francisco Peguero. He can throw, he can run, he can hit(fastballs), and he's Dominican. What else do you need to know?
by haverecords on Mar 10, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tazawa also turned down more money from the Rangers to sign with Boston, fwiw
by alskor on Mar 10, 2009 2:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
that's a much different situation
as they already had 2 established Japanese stars on their team — well and they have a chance to actually win something in the near future.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Mar 10, 2009 8:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not that much different...
both didnt want to play for texas. Ynoa because they have a terrible track record for developing pitchers and a terrible park to pitch in. Tazawa b/c he wanted to be around other Japanese people. Must be rough to be Texas…
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Mar 10, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not really
Again, Texas develops pitchers just fine — they just trade away the good ones for some reason. I’m not pissed about Ynoa making the decision he made — it’s certainly his choice.
I’m just annoyed that MLB does absolutely nothing to enforce whatever rules they claim to have about negotiating with prospects like Ynoa.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Mar 10, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Texas trades away good pitchers while they are prospects, and then those pitchers go on to flourish in other systems—then that PROVES Texas doesn’t do a good job evaluating and developing pitchers.
If you know you have something valuable you don’t give the valuable thing away for nothing like they’ve done with players like Duke, the A’s current ace.
Sometimes life will strike you out on a curve ball and the only choice you have is to flip off the umpire and walk to first base anyway.
by Threepwood XX on Mar 10, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Knowing you have something valuable
is alot different from developing them.
We are disagreeing over semantics I suppose — but I think the fact that there are so many SP that spent the vast majority of their time in the Rangers org. shows that they are just fine with developing pitchers — they are just very very poor at recognizing and staying patient with that development.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Mar 10, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tazawa's stuff
From the reports I’ve seen on his stuff, he seems like the kind of guy who would get eaten alive in The Ballpark.
by Fanon on Mar 10, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He has looked great so far
Ive seen him pitch 3 times and he has a ton of movement. The talk has all been that his ceiling is higher than was previously thought.
by alskor on Mar 10, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The negotiation nonsense aside
Did anyone watch the video of him on the baybridgebaseball link? Delivery looks pretty fluid to me, although of course there’s not a whole lot you can glean from it.
RagingHarden: Yeah if you get 20 starts out of me I'll be shocked. Like, I'll wreck my drawers.
by walk off bunt on Mar 10, 2009 3:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The video was so non-fluid I couldn't make head or tail of how fluid his delivery was
It looked like it was shot at about 1 frame per second…
Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"
by PaulThomas on Mar 11, 2009 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It looked like he was just soft tossing
Not actually pitching.
I did notice he bounced one to the catcher.
by alskor on Mar 11, 2009 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Texas being bad for developing pitchers
I am not about to go into whether this statement is true but, how many people sincerely believe that a 16 year old kid in Latin America is familiar enough with the Texas Rangers propsect development history to make this kind of judgment. This sounds like many people that follow prospects thinking this and supposing that Ynoa had the same knowledge.
I mean really, how many 16 years olds anywhere know enough about any MLB team’s farm system to make that judgment.
by tdot mariner fan on Mar 10, 2009 3:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Presumably somebody told him
If I were a 16 year old with an opportunity to sign a multi-million dollar contract with a baseball team, I think it’s reasonable that I might listen when somebody told me (correctly or not) about one team’s success in developing young pitchers and another’s lack of success
TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems
by OldProspects on Mar 10, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was his parents
The newspaper articles about him when he signed said his parents researched all the teams and came to the conclusion that the A’s had the best track record of developing pitchers.
Ynoa then gave newspaper interviews calling out the Rangers organization for not having a good pitching development system which angered the Rangers.
Sometimes life will strike you out on a curve ball and the only choice you have is to flip off the umpire and walk to first base anyway.
by Threepwood XX on Mar 11, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
first clip of him pitcing
http://baybridgebaseball.com/2009/03/the-ynoa-video/
Remember: baseball guys... baseball...
by Metty5 on Mar 10, 2009 7:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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