22 year old AA pitcher of the year part II

by tuna411 on Mar 23, 2009 3:12 PM EDT Comment 31 comments

OAK Mazzaro, Vin 2 6 7 7 2 3

The above is his latest line bringing his spring era to 7.30.

Is he still a top 100 prospect? Top 20 (BAHAHAHAHHAH...not a chance and never was)?

Sorry to re-hash this topic but I thought it was a bit of joke in the first place to consider him a top 20 prospect heading into 2009.

Peace

wietersisnotyetintheHOFwietersisnotyetintheHOF

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He never was a top 20 prospect.

But he is still a very good prospect. ~15 or so spring training innings does not change that fact.

He also started ST with 8 shutout innings so it wasn’t like he was struggling constantly.

"We were s--, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Mar 23, 2009 4:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

top 200

I think they left a 0 off the rankings.

by Patriotreign3 on Mar 23, 2009 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think..

he was referring to the guys who tried to make the arguement that Mazzaro was a top 20 prospect.

by jsmall404 on Mar 23, 2009 5:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Well that was stupid

About as stupid as the argument that 15 mediocre spring training innings mean much of anything

TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems

by OldProspects on Mar 23, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jesus H

Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"

by PaulThomas on Mar 23, 2009 5:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

15 spring innings...

+ 30 innings at AAA to end the year…not saying it is the end of the world for him, but he has not pitched that well. Plus, reports of his 96 MPH sinker were obviously overblown and just hype.

by jsmall404 on Mar 23, 2009 6:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Oh, well why didn't you say so?

45 innings, and he must be terrible.

TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems

by OldProspects on Mar 23, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

thats exactly what I am saying (rolling my eyes).

What I am saying if I think people jumped on the band wagon a little early.

by jsmall404 on Mar 23, 2009 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And I was saying precisely that in the first post

But the evidence that he was overrated by that guy isn’t from his spring training innings.

And why was the FB claim overblown? Most of the major scouting reports had him peaking at a 95 mph 2 seamer – why is out of the question that he hit 96?

TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems

by OldProspects on Mar 23, 2009 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

because

every first hand account I have read has him 88-92

by jsmall404 on Mar 23, 2009 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That’s kind of interesting. Fangraphs has him at 89-94. I think BA had him touching 95, which fits well with the reports of him sitting in the low 90s. Obviously the one or two miles doesn’t especially matter, but which first hand reports are you relying on?

TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems

by OldProspects on Mar 24, 2009 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

First off,

way to be a tool. I was waiting for someone to pop off about this and congratulations, you were the first to make an ass out of yourself. I’m not sure more then one person on this site has ever stated that they think Vince Mazzaro was a top 20 prospect and in fact, I don’t think the first post stated that at all. Most fans realize that spring training stats really don’t mean shit. His last two outings have been bad, no doubt. The good news is he simply goes to AAA in 2009, where he belongs, and puts his spring stats behind him. They don’t matter. He had a great season in AA last year, but still has things to work on. He’s a solid pitching prospect either way you look at it though. He could develop into a solid #2-3 starter if he can just harness his stuff like he did all season at AA in 08’. We’ll see what happens.

by JPShark on Mar 23, 2009 8:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

are you

his brother?

chill out

and yeah, the guy did say he should be in the top 20

by jsmall404 on Mar 23, 2009 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's an ignorant post.

And yes i’ll call people on it if I feel it neccessary. Thats part of the fun of this site, people can (or should) be able to call it like they see it. I think fansposts should be used for insightful, well thought out topics. Not for people who have a hard-on for another team to post junk like this. It’s not likely to stop, and that’s fine. But when somebody calls a person on their shitty post, I don’t think that person should get ripped. Sorry. As far as the top 20 prospects thing goes, I didn’t see it. Obviously that’s a rediculous thought. Like I said, Mazzaro is solid but not elite. I think he is probably in the top 120 or so, but not much higher.

by JPShark on Mar 24, 2009 2:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I am not saying it isnt

obviously it is lame to throw someone’s post back in their face because a guy had one bad start, or a few bad ones.

by jsmall404 on Mar 24, 2009 2:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

he shouldn't be in the top 20

but these innings literally have nothing to do with it. If it was David Price pitching these, we’d all chalk it up to “small-sample”. This is just another example of someone having a set opinion and using any stats within his power to prove himself right, no matter how faulty his stats may be.

On the other hand, if this was a guy like Robby Hammock, and his ST line was .320/.450/.470, we’d also chalk it up to spring training. His ERA doesn’t matter. What matters is if he’s throwing wildly, and his K/BB doesn’t suggest throwing too wildly; 12/7 certainly isn’t Daniel Cabrera wild. His GO/AO is about the same as Gio, who has a more respectable ERA.

by maneatingbaby on Mar 23, 2009 10:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Let ask you guys this

just for the sake of argument

In light of him getting hit around at the end of last year and having a few rough outings this spring…how long would he need to struggle in AAA for you to say “yeah, maybe he is just very average”

by jsmall404 on Mar 23, 2009 10:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't know

In light of him dominating AA last year, how long before you admit that he’s a pretty good (if not great) pitcher?

by ozzman99 on Mar 23, 2009 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know part II

In light of him getting crushed in 2007, 2006, the second half of 2008 and ST 2009, how long before you admit he might not be anywhere near a great pitcher let alone a productive major league pitcher?

by tuna411 on Mar 23, 2009 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

scouts were still high on him

even with the high era in the cal league still showed solid pure stuff and was let down by a weak defense, as a sinker ball pitcher thats not a good combo

so he was a 20/21 yr old that struggled…how horrible, he should retire and join the burger king drive through

i’d say at least if not a solid sp, he may end up a reliever with a sinking low-mid 90’s fb…kind of similar role masterson is with red sox

by Asfan4ever723 on Mar 24, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

how horrible, he should retire and join the burger king drive through

right next to you??

Yeah, I am clearly saying he sucks and should not bother pitching ever again.

by jsmall404 on Mar 24, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Chill Winston

He was obviously responding to the poster above him.

by DeJay on Mar 26, 2009 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I will

admit he is above average (good). He is no way, shape, or form, great.

In his career, he has gotten lit up every stop of the way except for last year in AA, where is BABIP was very low.

Like I said, I think people just jumped on the band wagon too soon.

by jsmall404 on Mar 24, 2009 2:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Here's a thought:

Sorry to re-hash this topic

Then don’t.

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Mar 24, 2009 12:02 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

This post proves one thing

We really need a way to thumbs-down posts.

by RedSoxFaithful on Mar 24, 2009 12:51 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

+1

"My mom always taught me it's better to laugh at yourself than to laugh at others. She was so wrong. ;)" -Pedrophile

by Boxkutter on Mar 24, 2009 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Troll

by DeJay on Mar 24, 2009 8:05 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Ahh

Of course you must be trolling if you’re insulting an Oakland Athletics pitching prospect.

Who loves orange soda?

by Kenan and Kel on Mar 24, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This was

a direct response to a ridiculous, bias-riddled post about Mazarro and his glorious spring start. IIRC that poster was asserting that most of the baseball world was incorrect about Mazzaro due in large part to a successful start to ST.

I don’t see anything wrong with questioning that now that Mazzaro has come back down to earth.

Who loves orange soda?

by Kenan and Kel on Mar 24, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This isn't questioning anything.

This is deliberate mockery. Go read the original post again and tell me how he’s not just being a jerk.

I have no problem with folks wanting to question Mazzaro’s talents, skills, or where he belongs in rankings. Or, heck, whether he’s a prospect at all. But one inane post singing his praises doesn’t deserve another equally inane post. The only reason to bother making a response post like this is to troll someone.

Bear in mind, I have no attraction to Mazzaro whatsoever (Mariners fan), so say whatever you want. But at the very least bring your arguments forth with rationality and reasoning. If the OP had been anything but “LOL HES CRASHED LOL NOT A TOP 20 PROSPECT HURR” then this wouldn’t be an issue.

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Mar 24, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs